My problem is having run nimbus missions on my Federation and Klingon toons.
And in space hearing His voice at times during the ground missions and at times the last space battle with Hassan.
(hopefully these bugs have been/will be fixed.)
And as for the other issue I agree that a simple dismiss feature will fix this problem.
it could even be worked into season 8 as a footnote with tovan khev either getting his own command, dieing a heroes death, or even taking a position in the civilian government.
If it becomes possible to dismiss him, I hope he becomes a new mission contact for level 50+ missions. :P
Just looked at Khev's skills to see what was allegedly so awesome about them.
Nothing, nothing at all!
The only sortof special one is Torpedo Spread III and that comes as standard on the Jem'Hadar tac (a guaranteed FREE boff), so that's not really special, is it?
The other level 3 skill (Cannon Rapid Fire 3), I can train into any Tac I wish, so that's not really special either.
And both of these are top level skills, beyond the reach of starter characters.
So they won't really help you until you get your hands on an RA ship.
I suspected that Federation BOFF you were referring to was Andorian, which just makes the offense worse.
I absolutely can't stand Andorians, so if I was forced to keep one, oh yeah, you'd be hearing about that for sure! :mad:
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Actually, TS3 can be used as early as level 30. :P
But seriously.... It's a purple Boff with multiple skills that you normally don't get for free. The Jemhadar Boff is something that will take quite a while to get, even IF you skip several dozen missions to get to it since it has a level requirement of 44. and really... he's not better than Tovan. CRF3 is something only Tacs can train, for everyone else it's a hard to acquire skill.
I suspect that your... issue has less to do with the game itself than it has to do with your personality.... quirks.
I always figured that Tovan Khev really WAS Wesley Crusher. After all Wesley was a Traveler and Travelers can change their appearance. I think he left Starfleet (again) after Riker got into the habit of saying "Shut up Wesley"on the Titan. You know, turn over a new leaf and all, but still annoy people at the least helpful moments.
But seriously.... It's a purple Boff with multiple skills that you normally don't get for free. The Jemhadar Boff is <snip>not better than Tovan. CRF3 is something only Tacs can train, for everyone else it's a hard to acquire skill.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think it's time for a dose of brutal honesty.
You want us to believe Tovan is superior?
You need to offer concrete proof.
We're not going to believe he's superior just because you say so.
1. Tovan is superior because he's purple?
So is the Jem'Hadar tac.
2. CRF3 is a hard to obtain skill?
No. Just ask any Tactical trained Captain to train it into a BOFF for you.
I've done this enough for my friends to know how easy it is.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think it's time for a dose of brutal honesty.
You want us to believe Tovan is superior?
You need to offer concrete proof.
We're not going to believe he's superior just because you say so.
1. Tovan is superior because he's purple?
So is the Jem'Hadar tac.
2. CRF3 is a hard to obtain skill?
No. Just ask any Tactical trained Captain to train it into a BOFF for you.
I've done this enough for my friends to know how easy it is.
You're missing the point.... probably intentionally.
The point is that Tovan is a LOT better than the Boffs you get in the Fed story missions. It's NOT easy to find boffs with some of those skills. The fact that there is a way to get those skills without paying millions on the exchange does not make them less useful, or change that you get them for free.
And who said that Tovan was superior? Oh wait... you did.
The justifications for and against Tovan ignores the issue others have noted that Cryptic changed the Boff system in LOR.
Cryptic already has coding in place where Tovan could have been an expanded NPC in the same manner as Miral Paris and The Kuvah'Magh story.
Tovan could have been positioned as a required NPC, with voice overs, etc, that you encountered at each step of the storyline. A Tovan+Drake+Paris combination that also has a secondary story line for people to pursue of finding his sister. The reward of finding his sister could have been the option of receiving a "Tovan" like Boff similar to D'Vex. A unique Boff with a rare trait.
Cryptic also left Veril's story line unfinished in Devil's Choice. Her story line could have been handled similarly.
Instead, Cryptic spent development resources for a feature that I contend unnecessarily hampers the flexibility of personalising a player's crew and doesn't add unique value.
Some have contended it is a way to force a purchase of an additional Boff slot. If this was Cryptic's intent, then it was ineptly executed.
Now that Tovan is in place, the probability of Cryptic spending development dollars to fix it is, I contend, very unlikely given the emphasis on new content development.
Tovan is, for me, an example of a poorly thought through game requirement that had obvious downsides if the underlying marketing premise of the game is "You are the Captain... you can tell your own story...You call the shots."
btw, if you don't want to see Tovan on your bridge, the Temporal Bridge is the only way so far. Change the tac officer and Tovan doesn't appear in the tac boff seat.
Some have contended it is a way to force a purchase of an additional Boff slot.
That I believe.
I had to level up a whole rank (11 levels) just to get a free slot to claim my Android Engineer.
If Tovan hadn't been bogarting the slot, I would have had the BOFF more or less instantly.
The Reman Borg is also available right at the start of the game.
Granted you have to pay for him, but for the advantages he brings, I consider that a price worth paying.
Liberated Borg Reman or Romulan, who you rather have?
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I had to level up a whole rank (11 levels) just to get a free slot to claim my Android Engineer.
If Tovan hadn't been bogarting the slot, I would have had the BOFF more or less instantly.
Don't you have to do that anyway? I went to the romulan bridge officer vendor and she does not even give c-store crew, let alone special. So don't you have to reach 11 so you can visit ESD or qo'nos anyway?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Don't you have to do that anyway? I went to the romulan bridge officer vendor and she does not even give c-store crew, let alone special. So don't you have to reach 11 so you can visit ESD or qo'nos anyway?
Excellent point. There isn't actually a romulan android at all. thus you have to choose allegiance before you can claim an android.
Tovan is an useless boff who is here to make fun of you and your leadership capabilities. He's a local pest, and he'll be eliminated.
Ay, he ought to be errased.
He is not special by any mean. His "unique" abilities can be trained by other captains or can be taken from other purple bo's from exchange. Even if he would be an uber BO I would trash him.
__________________
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
Don't you have to do that anyway? I went to the romulan bridge officer vendor and she does not even give c-store crew, let alone special. So don't you have to reach 11 so you can visit ESD or qo'nos anyway?
I meant 21, not 11.
Or whatever it is, I have trouble relating ranks to the numerical value of the rank.
And yes, I did find it disappointing that Liberated Borg Engy and Android are just generic Starfleet BOFFs.
At least the Android has access to custom alien appearance, so I was able to simulate a Romulan appearance.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
You dressed him that way. So now you want him off the ship because you dressed him in a ridiculous manner? That's like ... well, never mind. You want him off the ship because you want an all-female crew? I wanted an all-Romulan crew myself, but the two Remans I picked up along the way serve quite well, and the Orion girl who came along later does also. I still have several BOffs who haven't yet been commissioned, but I have the spaces for them, and may eventually commission them. I wanted all my BOffs on my Orion to be Orion females (and most of them are). And yet, the Orion males and the Klingon male serve me quite well. I see no need to be rid of them. A desire, after all, is not a need. Please make the distinction.
Your analogy is also flawed. Again, a desire is not a need. Tovan is not a load of fertilizer and does no harm to you or your gameplay. Again, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Slippery slope and all that, all or nothing, bad reasoning. There's no comparison between him being "forced on" you and you coming to my place and dumping fertilizer (which would, you know, also be a very foolish thing to do to anyone's place in Texas, where most of us are armed ...).
In reverse order, my analogy is not flawed. Tovan is a load of fertilizer. I'll give you another analogy that you might understand since you are from Texas. What if someone were to bring you a Mexican "house guest", and you were told you had to provide for him, pay all his expenses, and you could never be rid of him. You have no choice in the matter. Oh, and one of your kids will have to go because the Mexican is going to be using his bedroom. He's useful, but would you rather have him, or your kid?
I don't have a "need" to be rid of him. However, I was told, when I began playing this game in Beta, that I would be captain of my own ship. As Captain of my ship, I should be able to pick my own crew, and not be forced to take on members I don't like.
The difference between Tovan and those crew members you picked up along the way that weren't Romulan, is that you had a choice. You can keep them if you want, get rid of them if you don't.
As for his clothing, I dressed him that way because I hate him.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Would you be complaining like this if the Fed side missions did the same with Corspa/Shelana/whatever-other-random names-she-gets? (Actually, that's who took his place when I did the Nimbus arc fed-side)
Absolutely, yes.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
In reverse order, my analogy is not flawed. Tovan is a load of fertilizer. I'll give you another analogy that you might understand since you are from Texas. What if someone were to bring you a Mexican "house guest", and you were told you had to provide for him, pay all his expenses, and you could never be rid of him. You have no choice in the matter. Oh, and one of your kids will have to go because the Mexican is going to be using his bedroom. He's useful, but would you rather have him, or your kid?
I don't have a "need" to be rid of him. However, I was told, when I began playing this game in Beta, that I would be captain of my own ship. As Captain of my ship, I should be able to pick my own crew, and not be forced to take on members I don't like.
The difference between Tovan and those crew members you picked up along the way that weren't Romulan, is that you had a choice. You can keep them if you want, get rid of them if you don't.
As for his clothing, I dressed him that way because I hate him.
Actually, the main flaw in your analogy is that "It's just a game." You're putting excessive emotional weight on a relatively minor change in the way the game works.
I'm now dressing him in a used environmental suit so I don't have to look at his face.
On the surface, it may seem like this is a minor issue.
But I know Cryptic too well to believe if we don't make our opinions on this matter heard, they'll just do it again and make it much worse.
A couple of theorectical examples:
1. Every faction is assigned a non-removable BOFF, one we are forced to have.
In addition, if we have a maxed crew, we'll be forced to buy extra BOFF slots to get this BOFF we are being forced to have.
2. What if it's not just one BOFF in the future?
In the Romulan storyline, you are given 4 character specific BOFFs (counting Khev).
What if Cryptic told you that all 4 were mandatory and you weren't allowed to dismiss them because you "must have them because they are part of the story".
And to inject some humor into this topic, a discussion I was having with a friend:
We were talking about how Khev is the major drawback of creating a Romulan character.
Friend: If I could, I'd beam him into space.
<pause>
Friend: I've got to repair my ship, I've got a minor malfunction, the transporter systems are offline.
Tilarta: Tovan must have heard you talking and sabotaged the transporters.
Yes, it was an accidental coincedence, but an appropriate one!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I have demoted my Torvan to the rank of "Ship's Fool." I have dressed him in brightly coloured clothing with bright spiked hair. He now dances, juggles and tells ribald jokes to the crew.
I throw him out the airlock every day right before Night Shift starts, and every morning he is back in the Thaleron chamber, using it to make shadow puppets. I suspect he may be Q in disguise.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
Actually, the way I play it is that Tovan is secretly working for the Tal Shiar. This became clear to my character when he did a background check on his 'friend' and discovered that the name Toven Khev kept popping up all over the place, (much like the CIA operative Agent Lynch), and stationed on numerous star ships simultaneously.
Further proof was when my character attempted to discharge him, and was forbidden to do so but no explanation given.
Tovan is now regulated to non-essential operations and regularly fed misinformation by my character and the rest of the senior bridge staff. He is also no longer allowed on away missions, and is under constant supervision by the ship's internal surveillance system.
Tovan is no longer invited to the senior staff poker games.
Furthermore, when my character was captured by the Tal Shiar, Tovan?s voice was the one that spoke to him the most. Yes, he told my character to resist, but that was a deliberate ploy to instill future trust in Tovan knowing that the conditioning would eventually be broken.
Look. If the Tal Shiar truly wanted to condition my character, there is little my character would be able to do about it. The conditioning was deliberately set up to fail.
There were also numerous times during early missions where Tovan would quietly take charge, and he did so in a very manipulative and passive aggressive Tal Shiar kind of way, making it only appear that my character was making the decisions, when it was actually Tovan.
The final nail was when Tovan reunited with his sister. No hug. No tearful reunion. In fact, no real recognition at all ? suggesting that perhaps there is no sister.
There is nothing genuine about Tovan. The more my character got to know him, the less real Tovan began to appear.
You can doubt all you want, but unfortunately the last couple of interviews I've read with random Devs. indicate that they're seriously considering a Boff companion for the Fed. side. I don't know if it would be exactly like Tovan was implemented, but yeah, they're about to do it.
that's only if you go thru the tutorial with a new character other wise your safe, none of my KDFs got the purple Boff when doing the missions outside the tutorial but the one time I did it with anew one I did get the Purple boff
Comments
If it becomes possible to dismiss him, I hope he becomes a new mission contact for level 50+ missions. :P
My character Tsin'xing
Nothing, nothing at all!
The only sortof special one is Torpedo Spread III and that comes as standard on the Jem'Hadar tac (a guaranteed FREE boff), so that's not really special, is it?
The other level 3 skill (Cannon Rapid Fire 3), I can train into any Tac I wish, so that's not really special either.
And both of these are top level skills, beyond the reach of starter characters.
So they won't really help you until you get your hands on an RA ship.
I suspected that Federation BOFF you were referring to was Andorian, which just makes the offense worse.
I absolutely can't stand Andorians, so if I was forced to keep one, oh yeah, you'd be hearing about that for sure! :mad:
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
But seriously.... It's a purple Boff with multiple skills that you normally don't get for free. The Jemhadar Boff is something that will take quite a while to get, even IF you skip several dozen missions to get to it since it has a level requirement of 44. and really... he's not better than Tovan. CRF3 is something only Tacs can train, for everyone else it's a hard to acquire skill.
I suspect that your... issue has less to do with the game itself than it has to do with your personality.... quirks.
My character Tsin'xing
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think it's time for a dose of brutal honesty.
You want us to believe Tovan is superior?
You need to offer concrete proof.
We're not going to believe he's superior just because you say so.
1. Tovan is superior because he's purple?
So is the Jem'Hadar tac.
2. CRF3 is a hard to obtain skill?
No. Just ask any Tactical trained Captain to train it into a BOFF for you.
I've done this enough for my friends to know how easy it is.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The point is that Tovan is a LOT better than the Boffs you get in the Fed story missions. It's NOT easy to find boffs with some of those skills. The fact that there is a way to get those skills without paying millions on the exchange does not make them less useful, or change that you get them for free.
And who said that Tovan was superior? Oh wait... you did.
My character Tsin'xing
You can't get the Jem'Hadar until level 44.
Next question?
Cryptic already has coding in place where Tovan could have been an expanded NPC in the same manner as Miral Paris and The Kuvah'Magh story.
Tovan could have been positioned as a required NPC, with voice overs, etc, that you encountered at each step of the storyline. A Tovan+Drake+Paris combination that also has a secondary story line for people to pursue of finding his sister. The reward of finding his sister could have been the option of receiving a "Tovan" like Boff similar to D'Vex. A unique Boff with a rare trait.
Cryptic also left Veril's story line unfinished in Devil's Choice. Her story line could have been handled similarly.
Instead, Cryptic spent development resources for a feature that I contend unnecessarily hampers the flexibility of personalising a player's crew and doesn't add unique value.
Some have contended it is a way to force a purchase of an additional Boff slot. If this was Cryptic's intent, then it was ineptly executed.
Now that Tovan is in place, the probability of Cryptic spending development dollars to fix it is, I contend, very unlikely given the emphasis on new content development.
Tovan is, for me, an example of a poorly thought through game requirement that had obvious downsides if the underlying marketing premise of the game is "You are the Captain... you can tell your own story...You call the shots."
btw, if you don't want to see Tovan on your bridge, the Temporal Bridge is the only way so far. Change the tac officer and Tovan doesn't appear in the tac boff seat.
That I believe.
I had to level up a whole rank (11 levels) just to get a free slot to claim my Android Engineer.
If Tovan hadn't been bogarting the slot, I would have had the BOFF more or less instantly.
The Reman Borg is also available right at the start of the game.
Granted you have to pay for him, but for the advantages he brings, I consider that a price worth paying.
Liberated Borg Reman or Romulan, who you rather have?
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Don't you have to do that anyway? I went to the romulan bridge officer vendor and she does not even give c-store crew, let alone special. So don't you have to reach 11 so you can visit ESD or qo'nos anyway?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My character Tsin'xing
''The most disgusting ship you can ever see in the universe. Yes. Truly.''
______
Someone random
Ay, he ought to be errased.
He is not special by any mean. His "unique" abilities can be trained by other captains or can be taken from other purple bo's from exchange. Even if he would be an uber BO I would trash him.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
I meant 21, not 11.
Or whatever it is, I have trouble relating ranks to the numerical value of the rank.
And yes, I did find it disappointing that Liberated Borg Engy and Android are just generic Starfleet BOFFs.
At least the Android has access to custom alien appearance, so I was able to simulate a Romulan appearance.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Sadly this is one perk I really wanted to put in Romulan clothes.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
In reverse order, my analogy is not flawed. Tovan is a load of fertilizer. I'll give you another analogy that you might understand since you are from Texas. What if someone were to bring you a Mexican "house guest", and you were told you had to provide for him, pay all his expenses, and you could never be rid of him. You have no choice in the matter. Oh, and one of your kids will have to go because the Mexican is going to be using his bedroom. He's useful, but would you rather have him, or your kid?
I don't have a "need" to be rid of him. However, I was told, when I began playing this game in Beta, that I would be captain of my own ship. As Captain of my ship, I should be able to pick my own crew, and not be forced to take on members I don't like.
The difference between Tovan and those crew members you picked up along the way that weren't Romulan, is that you had a choice. You can keep them if you want, get rid of them if you don't.
As for his clothing, I dressed him that way because I hate him.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Absolutely, yes.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
My character Tsin'xing
"This game could spit out $20 bills, and some people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered."
I find that quote quite appropriate. :cool:
--Red Annorax
My character Tsin'xing
On the surface, it may seem like this is a minor issue.
But I know Cryptic too well to believe if we don't make our opinions on this matter heard, they'll just do it again and make it much worse.
A couple of theorectical examples:
1. Every faction is assigned a non-removable BOFF, one we are forced to have.
In addition, if we have a maxed crew, we'll be forced to buy extra BOFF slots to get this BOFF we are being forced to have.
2. What if it's not just one BOFF in the future?
In the Romulan storyline, you are given 4 character specific BOFFs (counting Khev).
What if Cryptic told you that all 4 were mandatory and you weren't allowed to dismiss them because you "must have them because they are part of the story".
And to inject some humor into this topic, a discussion I was having with a friend:
We were talking about how Khev is the major drawback of creating a Romulan character.
Friend: If I could, I'd beam him into space.
<pause>
Friend: I've got to repair my ship, I've got a minor malfunction, the transporter systems are offline.
Tilarta: Tovan must have heard you talking and sabotaged the transporters.
Yes, it was an accidental coincedence, but an appropriate one!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I throw him out the airlock every day right before Night Shift starts, and every morning he is back in the Thaleron chamber, using it to make shadow puppets. I suspect he may be Q in disguise.
Further proof was when my character attempted to discharge him, and was forbidden to do so but no explanation given.
Tovan is now regulated to non-essential operations and regularly fed misinformation by my character and the rest of the senior bridge staff. He is also no longer allowed on away missions, and is under constant supervision by the ship's internal surveillance system.
Tovan is no longer invited to the senior staff poker games.
Look. If the Tal Shiar truly wanted to condition my character, there is little my character would be able to do about it. The conditioning was deliberately set up to fail.
There were also numerous times during early missions where Tovan would quietly take charge, and he did so in a very manipulative and passive aggressive Tal Shiar kind of way, making it only appear that my character was making the decisions, when it was actually Tovan.
The final nail was when Tovan reunited with his sister. No hug. No tearful reunion. In fact, no real recognition at all ? suggesting that perhaps there is no sister.
There is nothing genuine about Tovan. The more my character got to know him, the less real Tovan began to appear.
So, yeah. Tovan is a Tal Shiar spy.
that's only if you go thru the tutorial with a new character other wise your safe, none of my KDFs got the purple Boff when doing the missions outside the tutorial but the one time I did it with anew one I did get the Purple boff