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Breen Ship and the USS/IKS Name Prefixs
admiralnat
Member Posts: 22,432 Arc User
I just had a thought. I can't get rid of the USS name prefix from my Breen ship's name. This is probably the case for IKS prefix for KDF Breen ships also. :mad:
We have so many other ships that can have alternate name prefixes, or no name prefix at all, such as the Vulcan ship, Elachi ships, Mirror ships, etc. I think maybe even the Danube runabout. Why not the Breen ship?
We have so many other ships that can have alternate name prefixes, or no name prefix at all, such as the Vulcan ship, Elachi ships, Mirror ships, etc. I think maybe even the Danube runabout. Why not the Breen ship?
Winning.
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Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Oh, look, an explosion...
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Post edited by admiralnat on
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Good suggestion though 8)
The doors, Mister Scott!
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I like cats :cool:.
UGC Campaign: The Coldblooded Scrolls
Heh.
I lol'd.
It was rather immersion breaking that they even put in the idea of I.S.S. and A.K.S to begin with from that point of view.
But they do, that is what is killing me. I have never like the lockboxes but am not going to stop people from opening them, because it their choice after all, but when ships like nor lockboxes ships start using the fed or KDF registries that just too much.
Which would be fine, but from MY point of view for RP purposes, the crew of my Chel Grett are "Privateers" They don't fly KDF ships, and they don't wear any KDF markings on their uniforms. They may have started out KDF, but *I* see them as independents.
Would be nice for some other prefixes, or the ability to display none at all. Then again I have been hoping for a neutral faction for years. (Old-timers, you know... Smuggler's Alliance faction.)
USS Immortal NX-93608-F (Oddyssey Tactical Cruiser)
VADM Rogueshadow IRW Kirino Kosaka (Valdore Retrofit)
LT General Morbo IKS Karac (Bortasqu War Cruiser)
LT General Posu IKS Saya Takagi (Chel Grett Warship)
Your crews are "Independent", and yet you seem quite happy to be using the massive infrastructure of the KDF: the starbases, vendors, exchange, tailor, shipyard and of course safe passage through KDF space. That qualifies as a reason to be a KDF commissioned starship, and thus have to use the I.K.S. prefix.
So what you are saying it okay for the Romulan faction to use the USS and I.K.S prefixes on their ships when they are clearly not part of the Klingon Defense Force or starfleet. Because that is my point am trying to make here.
Ooop.... Sorry went a little biTrekual there....
What I mean is This is a grand galaxy where many fly, many die...
The worlds are ours for the taking or for the rebuilding.....
It doesn't matter if you're KDF, FED, remnants of RSE(Romulan Star Empire), the RRS (Romulan Republic Separatists), or some future species expansion....
What matters is that the ship you fly is designed by the species that built it not by the faction that uses it and therefore should include both the species prefix AND a faction prefix
Am sorry but I don't fellow. The point here is Romulan captain ally with Fed or KDF can use both Romulan republic navy prefix as well of their ally. So since Fed or KDF don't know how to build warbird why should they have such prefix. Since you stated it should be species not faction. The last I check Romulan where not part of the fed nor were they part of KDF.
Not entirely, he spends most of his time hanging around DS9 these days, which last time I checked wasn't a KDF facility. The same could be said back when I used to spend a lot of time at Drozana, while Drozana might be in KDF space, it is in fact a civilian, non-military installation that is open to whoever stops buy and has the latinum.
One could argue that most freelancers can get safe passage through Klingon space, provided they are selling/buying from a Klingon allied star system. Because the Klingons are a "warrior race" doesn't mean they don't protect their merchants... if they ignored merchant ships calling for help, then people wouldn't do business with them, then demand increases, then you bring in some unscrupulous Orions who drive up the price, and that makes for plenty of unhappy people.
USS Immortal NX-93608-F (Oddyssey Tactical Cruiser)
VADM Rogueshadow IRW Kirino Kosaka (Valdore Retrofit)
LT General Morbo IKS Karac (Bortasqu War Cruiser)
LT General Posu IKS Saya Takagi (Chel Grett Warship)
This argument doesn't entirely hold water...
1) I am level 50, J'mpok doesn't call me for jack. Besides, because someone USED to work for a particular faction, doesn't necessarily mean that he will forever.
2) In the course of my progression, I recall doing jobs for the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Republic, the Defera, the Reman's, and subfactions of the Empire.
3) I don't act "neural."
If we were to stick to pre-designated factions, we'd never have lockbox ships to worry about prefixes.... we'd also never have Jem Hadar, Breen, Reman, etc BOFF'S. You'd never have a Gorn ship captained by a Borg who has a crew of Orion Slavegirls.... that's why it's called ROLEPLAYING.
I understand that by game mechanic you can never really be "independent" but does that mean even if at endgame we choose to play OUR way, we still have to carry THEIR markings?
USS Immortal NX-93608-F (Oddyssey Tactical Cruiser)
VADM Rogueshadow IRW Kirino Kosaka (Valdore Retrofit)
LT General Morbo IKS Karac (Bortasqu War Cruiser)
LT General Posu IKS Saya Takagi (Chel Grett Warship)
I wish that Cryptic would allow us to use more varied prefixes as well. There are plenty of canon examples to substantiate their use, as some are given above. It'd also be great if they'd allow us to use the various registry prefixes (also canon) that have been given as examples.
The origin of NCC on Memory Alpha according to Matt Jefferies:
"The use of NCC as a prefix for Starfleet registry numbers, Matt Jefferies said that the registries for American civil aircraft are preceded by NC, and Soviet craft used a prefix of CCCC, and as such, he more-or-less combined the two. His philosophy was, "If we do anything in space, we (Americans and Russians) have to do it together."
As far as an in-universe meaning of NCC, according to an entry on Memory Alpha:
"The 1975 publications Star Fleet Technical Manual and Star Trek Blueprints designate the abbreviation to stand for the Naval Construction Contract number of the ship."
This meaning is also referenced on Memory Beta as well as in some Star Trek novels.
Also according to Memory Alpha, ships outside of the Federation also use registries, although we don't have them for use in STO:
"On Starfleet display graphics, Klingon, Romulan and Cardassian starships have had registry numbers or identification codes without a letter prefix. These include ships like the Klingon IKS Fek'lhr (454435), Romulan warbird PWB Tomal (19386) and a Cardassian warship (5459824854). (DS9: "Image in the Sand"; TNG: "The Wounded")"
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You're right you don't follow... here let me make it simple....
Risians build a ship....
RXS = Risian Designation
FEDS build a ship....
USS = Federation Designation
Klingons build a ship.
IKS - Klingon Designation
Romulan Seperatists build a ship...
RRW = Republic Designation
This has no bearing on the person FLYING that ship.....
Fed aligned Romulan flies a Defiant.....
Romulan can choose to Keep the Federation designation or show that this is a Romulan owned Federation ship
RRW/USS
This also extends to Klingon aligned Romlans
RRW/IKS
and from there each of the factions can obtain NON-Factioned ship can and SHOULD be able to chose either the designation of the species that created the ship OR the Species flying it
So a klingon gets to Designate the Breen Chel Grett with the breen confederacy designation OR IKS
same should be applied with the Galor, the Dominion ships, Elachi and any other future NON red/blue faction designations
The Federation is exactly the opposite, and I can't think of one example of a member planet or ally that had "U.S.S." in front of its name. It's the equivalent of having an American or British Naval ship have something along the lines of UNS (United Nations Ship) instead of U.S.S. or H.M.S. on it. Yeah...no. It makes ZERO sense because they are not part of a UN Naval fleet. This is especially true if several other groups are assisting. The Russians and Chinese do not automatically become UN ships just because they are on a joint venture.
It's just plain ridiculous and should be removed from all non-Federation/Starfleet ships.
As for the Romulans, neither faction's prefix should be available for them - they're not part of either the Federation NOR the Klingon Empire.
:rolleyes:
See and this is why it gets very silly very quickly in terms of immersion.
Whether you like it or not and make believe a pretend fantasy that you are some kind of freelance pirate or whathaveyou the premise of the game is that in actual fact you are a ranking officer in your factions space Navy, a military officer and a representative of that government. As such the government owns the ship you fly and the crew under you.
Naval tradition, certainly here on Earth states that if you capture, borrow, sell, steal or otherwise use a ship under a certain government you have commissioned it into your own fleet and it has it's own designation henceforth.
For example, the Americans decide they want to give the USS Nimitz to Britain (for the sake of argument) that ship is no longer the USS Nimitz, it will be the HMS Nimitz (or Whatever) because it is now a British ship flying the British Ensign.
The same is true whether it is captured as a spoil of war, found adrift or whatever.
Because you are SUPPOSED to be an officer of your respective government that makes any ship you fly a ship of that government. So it would be entirely appropriate for a T4 Defiant to be RRW Nimitz, because that ship is now under the commission of the Romulan Republic.
It makes no sense whatsoever for that ship to be the USS Nimitz however because it is not under the direct operation of Starfleet and is in no sense a Starfleet vessel any longer.
Anything else is already pushing the boundaries of role play in order to make the players happy.. i.e. IRW, AKS, ISS etc.
The prefix removals for shuttles and other auxiliary craft make sense because in the T.V show most shuttles were know only by their base names for instance the shuttle Galileo was not the USS Galileo in the original series.
I'm not really in favour of removing the prefixes for any other ships because whilst the excuses for having Breen/Cardassian/Jem'Hadar ships in game are paper thin at best, they are still there to be believed as spoils of war. Starfleet and the KDF being made up of privateers and pirates on the other hand isn't believable in the slightest.
If you want to RP that you are some kind of rogue and pirate, that's all well and good but really and truthfully you can just RP away the prefix and call your ship what you like. That's the whole point of RP is it not?
And THIS is the problem between trekkies and just regular people who play STO....
Only you lore-hungry nerdlingers give a TRIBBLE what is canonically correct....
Most normal players don't give a frack
It's why this entire conversation is pointless.....
Normal players want selection
Trekkies want lore-strick Trek-stroking till they can nerdgasm.... which won't happen here. Sorry.
I say "at least" because depending how long I keep typing for, I'll probably burn through a lot of options
From a logical stand point, Your chel grett or galor is a starfleet vessel, regardless of it's origin, therefore (as has already been explained more than adequately by several others) they should be U.S.S. vessels. For this reason I believe people should be limited to their factions stamped out designation.
However, I understand that most people (myself included) like the idea of customization, so you'd want the choice. Personally, I'd be happy if all ships had the choice of several, say U.S.S., S.S., none. Or you know, whatever floats your boat.
This is especially reasonable for Lock box ships, where it'd be nice to keep it's native designation. Or for the Race specific C-Store ones, again this is more appropriate for KDF.
It's reasonable to assume that the Atroxx was made for the federation, whereas the Gorn/Nausicaan/Orion ships are somewhat more ambiguous. Those races all have their own standing fleet, going back to my first paragraph it makes sense for them it be I.K.S. since they are a KDF ship, it would also be nice to have something, less appropriate.
I've always like the idea of having historical options, such as H.M.S, F.G.S., I.R.I.S. or whatever. Perhaps available in a similar manor the the NX registry. This would of course result in much hellfire from players who want to know why their 24th century U.S.S. Nexus Delphi is flying alongside the HMSm Idolator, seemingly a submarine, comissioned in the 1900s.
But Immersion breakage be damned! Players should get to do what they want! Right? Else why would they play?
Yes, you are part of an official military organisation, so logically you should follow their conventions, but this is a game. You don't log in one day to find a message from Admiral Quinn ordering you to respond to Captain D'vaks request for assistance in the Quadra Sigma System. With failure to follow resulting in losing your commission, and a dishonorable discharge.
But then again, you can justify nearly anything if you're willing to take an argument go to such extremes.
Perhaps the/a solution would be to allow players to toggle their perception. If you don't want to see people flying I.S.S. or V.X.S. or JCB, let them just see all allies as U.S.S./I.K.S./R.R.W. I'm sure some players would dislike people not seeing them as intended, but really, who are they to force their opinion on others? That way, If somebody doesn't want to see 5 different designations of vessels, all supposedly starfleet, in one STF, then they don't have to. But those that want to fly what they like can unimpeded.
No doubt, people would find something to complain about with that, maybe suppression of free speech? or some angry rant about how the intolerant folk should stop whining and accept that people hold different opinions, while insisting everybody else hols their ideals of free speech. But then everybody ends up in redundant philisophical/ethical debates and threads get closed everywhere, followed by the inevitable civil war when the playerbase feel the mods are suppressing their rights to hate each other. Then comes the violent coup, and-
You know what, I think I'm getting a bit too off topic there... You get what I'm saying though.
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
:rolleyes:
This is what I meant about it getting silly really quickly. There is no call for ships to be called HMS in this game, arguably in the 24th century there is no monarchy.
Well no, on that same token this is a Star Trek game and we should follow at least some semblance of the IP or it wouldn't be Star Trek. There is a reason why you won't see Star Destroyers and Battlestars in this game.
That's a really silly suggestion but then I guess it's supposed to be given the rest of your argument.
How many people actually use these options anyway? Very few; Needs of the many and all that..
I understand, however I anticipated the poster wouldn't appreciate a history lesson as is evidenced by his rather futile flame attempt.
Thank you for your outright attack because I dared to disagree with you.
"Normal" people play a Star Trek game because they like Star Trek not because they want to play Star Wars/Battlestar/Mass Effect/Star Citizen/Eve but can't afford it.
Most "normal" people play a game the way it is intended to be played and most "normal" people don't go into Indian Restaurants and demand that they are served cheeseburgers.
You and others can pretend you're Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon all you want, that's up to you, it doesn't mean that the whole game should be turned into that to fulfill that fantasy.
Yeah, try not to take anything I say too seriously - I'm prone to hyperbole, exagerations, Reductio ad absurdum or whatever you feel like calling it, in order to demonstrate my point. If I argue to the extremes on both sides, it leaves less space for people to do the same in a retort. It may not make sense, but it makes life more fun
Anyway, back to the matter at hand. It all comes down to how seriously you want to take the game, and what you want to get out of it. You could argue that somebody who wants to be a privateer, or to fly the H.M.S. Shiptacular should just go and play a game that facilitates such things.
Although, there is the fact that some people just want their own take on ST, or happen to really like the game mechanics, or hell, perhaps they just like the idea of naming their own ship!
So just how accommodating should cryptic be? As I said before, I can't make up my own mind on this, so I'm definitely not going to tell others what they should think on it. I just like to point out that their are 2 very reasonable and logical sides to this debate. Perhaps not equally so, but valid nonetheless.
If I was forced to pick, I would be on the more restrictive side, just to reduce clutter, complaints and Cryptics workload.
The day will not save them. And we own the night.