You can run normal STFs at 45, Rep should begin at that time. If you wanna scale back the normal content to 40, I would agree with that as well.
The elite content in this suggestion would remain 50, giving players a real chance to learn the ropes and giving them a small challenge bump as they unlock T5 ships.
By being unable to spend any rep rewards until you reach 50, and the lack of XP earned outside of missions, there's no benefit to running normal STF content before the end.
Most problems I have with STF is that NOBODY is saying a word. .. then go and start the whole thing before everyone has arrived.
Now I have managed to get the optional despite all this.. but seriously .,.. WE NEED STF training CAMP like the PVP one!
I tend to agree whit this.
i only run ISE and KSE because i know how to do those. i would like to learn how cure works but so far i have little knowledge on how to succeed. mostly the ship we must protect gets blown up......
I just stopped bothering whit something i didn't understand and focused on what i did understand.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Most problems I have with STF is that NOBODY is saying a word. .. then go and start the whole thing before everyone has arrived.
Now I have managed to get the optional despite all this.. but seriously .,.. WE NEED STF training CAMP like the PVP one!
The problem I see with an STF training camp is that you'll teach newly minted VAs and Lt. Gens the tactics in the STF camp, which will then be summarily ignored by nearly every group they get into once they're done with the STF camp because of the excess DPS that groups, even PuGs, are routinely putting out.
Although it would be nice if it put tactics back into the equation for at least a small group of players...
I caught 3 newbs second stf khitomer ground elite
3 kept dying a lot
so i asked a question
how many was it thier first time one said this was his second STF run in elite ground
all you have to do is look in the pve qoue see everyone is just doing space and not ground they are doing it to get to tier 5 to get sets
and then still have no clue how to do ground missions
in space elites why i call newbs super troopers newbs with 12
The other thing you've probably not taken into consideration is how many of these people have their builds optimised for Space and have only the bear minimum amount of points in Ground. Most people I know who struggle with ground have often done this.
Putting even three points into Ground skills can improve your game a lot, but the Min/Max crowd tend not to "waste" points on them and as such their heals and other skills don't go as far as they should.
IMO, it should be required to play a certain number of Normal STFs in the major three, Infected, Cure and KA, before you can play Elite. This would ensure people know somewhat what to do in Elite. It can be a low number, but Elite should be locked out till you complete that number of runs.
That wouldn't help anything.
For example: The tactics pugs are using in all three space STFs on normal are tactics that are most likely to fail the optional on elite.
Now I have managed to get the optional despite all this.. but seriously .,.. WE NEED STF training CAMP like the PVP one!
And who would join PvE camps? The same people that would join PvP camps, meaning the people who are most likely interested in how the encounter works and who would probably have gotten that information somewhere else anyways.
Those who consistently TRIBBLE up STFs, who are not able to grasp the mechanics, who fail to ask/say something if they join for the first time or who deliberately sabotage them would not join a voluntary PvE camp in the first place.
/edit:
considering the frequency by which the OP is creating whine threads aboutn the noobs he gets grouped up with, his appearant inability to communicate alongside his huge ego, by now Im convinced that he is part of his problem as well.
My fleet is trying to train members up to be able to do the grounds. Problem is, there's so much trepidation about not just ground STFs but ground in general, we have a hard time getting 5 people together to do the training. No pressure, nobody screaming at you about bombing the optional, just training in a safe environment. The overwhelming opinion is "Why would I do this when I can just do space?"
With a good team, you could run these in not much more time than it takes to do a space and walk away with so many more marks. You could probably run all 3(6) original STFs in story order at least twice during a 3-hour marks event. That would be an epic haul of marks and dil. We just can't get people to care enough to become that team.
And what is this mythical nonsense about pugging STF grounds? I never see anybody in those queues, either playing or waiting. Maybe there will be a group running KAGE. CGE and IGE are 0/0. It's not even a matter of "Don't PUG the missions because the PUGs suck", you physically can't PUG it because the PUG isn't even there.
I think locking the elite STFs for all until you have done X number of Normal could help. Lets face it people needs to do the Normal first.. I know it sucks since you get less reward. As is it now most people skip it.
Those with alts .. have to redo the normals.. but it should go fairly quickly.. Even if you know how it works.. that new alt might not be equipped for it.
Maybe the access to Elite should be connected to tier 5 reputation with getting the first XII OMEGA or MACO?
Sounds like you're aggravated because you had "Noobs" on your team (another hateful "N" word). That's what happens when you PUG. Everyone's new sometime. Some folks will have to run them many times before they begin to "get it"... others will pick it up a lot quicker. Some have put off doing Ground because they don't care for it but now find they have some need for it. They're NOT going to be playing their best (just like I know some players who excel at Ground but suck vacuum in Space).
If you run with PUG's you get what's given ya. If you don't like that then form a team. You can team with Fleeties, Friends or jump on one of the STF channels. But as long as you choose to PUG you run that chance. Hell, you might even end up on a team with someone who's just there goofing... or a team that's ALL newbies except for you.
Personally I LIKE PUG's. Playing a PUG is like opening a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get :P.
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
Maybe the access to Elite should be connected to tier 5 reputation with getting the first XII OMEGA or MACO?
That's probably the worst suggestion in this whole thread.
Elites are easy. They are the top tier endgame content in STO, but they're still easier to do, both skill and gear-wise (there are people finishing optionals with runabouts, oberths and mirandas just for the fun of it, ffs), and faster to explain than pretty much every entry level dungeon or encounter in any other mmo out there.
No need to artificially limit them because some people are too inept to communicate with their fellow team members. Stop considering STO endgame as some kind of super-hard, heroic endgame content that needs to be limited and confined and people have to take some sort of course first to run...
Maybe the access to Elite should be connected to tier 5 reputation with getting the first XII OMEGA or MACO?
On my first character, I did 4 or 5 normals before realising I should just do elites instead. I've never been one of those "noob-ish" people that has cost people the mission. I have had a few people either blaming me for other peoples ****-ups, as well as the occasional unfortunate critical in an ISE.
Now, on all my other characters, I've just gone straight to ESTF. On all of these, I've known what I was doing, and had a more-than-good-enough setup.
So, yeah. I did 5 normal's, none of which were really necessary. What you want is for people to do 145.
Plus the fact they'd have no neural processors, so nobody could ever join the eSTF ranks...
___________________________ The day will not save them. And we own the night.
elite mission need to be an unlock too many people that never bothered with the normal version just jumping into elites and messing the mission up for others. normal is the learning grounds that's where you go to learn the mission, people defending new players in elites must be doing it themselves.
edit:
the unlock should be the accolade for successfully completing the stf with the op. once you get that in normal move on to elite.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I like ground stfs. Do I ever do them? Not only no, but HELL no! Pugging a ground stf is suicide. The second some newguy dies he screams about how hard it is and leaves, and then you don't get a replacement to que for him. Losing time is not my idea of fun.
Or worse, you get a troll. Some guy who keeps dieing and wandering around making sure you're undermanned for whatever fight you're on. You try talking to him but he doesn't listen let alone reply.
Stuff like this isn't limited to ground though. Yesterday in Conduit I watched three ships together kill off a generator. Instead of getting more generators they immediately pealed off and attacked spheres. Didn't even try for the bonus. I asked why, I tried to explain things, no reply, just them dieing by spheres, or getting to close to the gate and it killing them. Yes, I ended up with a leaver penalty.....
One time through at the very least on regular isn't going to solve the problem, it goes way deeper than that.
There's nothing worse than having someone jump down your throat because you aren't doing as well as you probably should. It just ruins the whole point of playing an online game. Stop taking it so seriously.
It's also worse when the guy is in a geared out Scimitar or something, and the person getting criticized is in a cheap ship.
Personally, I think the "problem" of beginners would be solved by having the Rep/STF missions unlocked at 40 or 45, with the elites unlocked when the person reaches 50.
There's nothing worse than having someone jump down your throat because you aren't doing as well as you probably should. It just ruins the whole point of playing an online game. Stop taking it so seriously.
It's also worse when the guy is in a geared out Scimitar or something, and the person getting criticized is in a cheap ship.
Personally, I think the "problem" of beginners would be solved by having the Rep/STF missions unlocked at 40 or 45, with the elites unlocked when the person reaches 50.
that's the way it is now but the thing is people are not even doing them till they hit 50 so they can work the rep system. and since they think elite give better rewards they just skip the normal. but if you get the op bonus on a normal its more than a failed elite.
so no fix will be perfect and we will always have problems. but if the elites just were not an option until after a player got the normal accolade it would help. regardless of the players lvl or their ship and equipment.
and for the guy there talking about the tricked out scim. I am not trying to offend you but that is not that good of a ship so just ignore all that stuff and worry about learning HOW to do the missions , because that is far more important than the gear.
Gear is a factor, taking a 6 gun ship with mk IX gear probably wont do to well. but if you can manage the normal and consistently get the ops on them try the elites, some jerks will get mad if you don't do much damage, don't worry about them, as long as you are not TRIBBLE the mission up and causing the loss of the OP bonus on the mission. dps issues can be dealt with later.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
The old system, while far from perfect actually required you to play the missions and become good at them in order to get the best gear.
Actually the old system just required you to get lucky...
I spent 100+ runs on Cure Ground Elite to get my set piece... I remember being so happy when I got it that I then jumped into an infected ground elite to start that long grind...
I hadn't ran an infected ground elite in months, managed to get lucky with a decent team who know what they were doing... basically my contribution was just not TRIBBLE up, stood in the middle at the end, pretty sure i died before Rebecca did and managed to get my infected ground piece too!
Soooo yeah, the old system was NOT based on "skill" rather just random dumb luck... At least with the new system it requires a set amount of "effort" to get the pieces rather than just relaying purely on the roll of the dice.
I like how OP talks as if he is the paragon of how Elite STFs are done >_>
I got all of my elite accolades in pugs. Then i listened to knowitalls badger people in team chat about 10 percent rules and blowing cure cubes at the same time. (seriously the 10 percent rule is stupid, because youre spreading your dps out, four players hitting 1 thing at the same time is faster in series than 1 player each hitting several things at the same time and then trying to make sure they are all staying in sync)
Then I joined Omega Primary and learned to do a cure elite in 5 minutes by straight up AOE DPSing the whole bloody thing 1 cube at a time with a single guard.
People are people, and its bloody annoying how many people think their way is the best ever.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I like ground stfs. Do I ever do them? Not only no, but HELL no! Pugging a ground stf is suicide. The second some newguy dies he screams about how hard it is and leaves, and then you don't get a replacement to que for him. Losing time is not my idea of fun.
Or worse, you get a troll. Some guy who keeps dieing and wandering around making sure you're undermanned for whatever fight you're on. You try talking to him but he doesn't listen let alone reply.
Stuff like this isn't limited to ground though. Yesterday in Conduit I watched three ships together kill off a generator. Instead of getting more generators they immediately pealed off and attacked spheres. Didn't even try for the bonus. I asked why, I tried to explain things, no reply, just them dieing by spheres, or getting to close to the gate and it killing them. Yes, I ended up with a leaver penalty.....
One time through at the very least on regular isn't going to solve the problem, it goes way deeper than that.
I love it when people yell at us for 'doing it wrong' then at the end they say 'I never got the optional on this one before.' Our fleet pugs ground Elite STFs all the time still. You are welcome to join us, but be warned, we do not listen to the demands of players insisting we follow what they read on wiki, we run the missions the fun way and still get optionals, usually with 5 minutes to spare.
Comments
The elite content in this suggestion would remain 50, giving players a real chance to learn the ropes and giving them a small challenge bump as they unlock T5 ships.
By being unable to spend any rep rewards until you reach 50, and the lack of XP earned outside of missions, there's no benefit to running normal STF content before the end.
Now I have managed to get the optional despite all this.. but seriously .,.. WE NEED STF training CAMP like the PVP one!
I tend to agree whit this.
i only run ISE and KSE because i know how to do those. i would like to learn how cure works but so far i have little knowledge on how to succeed. mostly the ship we must protect gets blown up......
I just stopped bothering whit something i didn't understand and focused on what i did understand.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
No, Cryptic, please do not nerf the STF enemies, they really, really do not need to be nerfed.
The problem I see with an STF training camp is that you'll teach newly minted VAs and Lt. Gens the tactics in the STF camp, which will then be summarily ignored by nearly every group they get into once they're done with the STF camp because of the excess DPS that groups, even PuGs, are routinely putting out.
Although it would be nice if it put tactics back into the equation for at least a small group of players...
The other thing you've probably not taken into consideration is how many of these people have their builds optimised for Space and have only the bear minimum amount of points in Ground. Most people I know who struggle with ground have often done this.
Putting even three points into Ground skills can improve your game a lot, but the Min/Max crowd tend not to "waste" points on them and as such their heals and other skills don't go as far as they should.
To announce that he has appointed himself stf hall monitor.
That wouldn't help anything.
For example: The tactics pugs are using in all three space STFs on normal are tactics that are most likely to fail the optional on elite.
And who would join PvE camps? The same people that would join PvP camps, meaning the people who are most likely interested in how the encounter works and who would probably have gotten that information somewhere else anyways.
Those who consistently TRIBBLE up STFs, who are not able to grasp the mechanics, who fail to ask/say something if they join for the first time or who deliberately sabotage them would not join a voluntary PvE camp in the first place.
/edit:
considering the frequency by which the OP is creating whine threads aboutn the noobs he gets grouped up with, his appearant inability to communicate alongside his huge ego, by now Im convinced that he is part of his problem as well.
With a good team, you could run these in not much more time than it takes to do a space and walk away with so many more marks. You could probably run all 3(6) original STFs in story order at least twice during a 3-hour marks event. That would be an epic haul of marks and dil. We just can't get people to care enough to become that team.
And what is this mythical nonsense about pugging STF grounds? I never see anybody in those queues, either playing or waiting. Maybe there will be a group running KAGE. CGE and IGE are 0/0. It's not even a matter of "Don't PUG the missions because the PUGs suck", you physically can't PUG it because the PUG isn't even there.
Those with alts .. have to redo the normals.. but it should go fairly quickly.. Even if you know how it works.. that new alt might not be equipped for it.
Maybe the access to Elite should be connected to tier 5 reputation with getting the first XII OMEGA or MACO?
If you run with PUG's you get what's given ya. If you don't like that then form a team. You can team with Fleeties, Friends or jump on one of the STF channels. But as long as you choose to PUG you run that chance. Hell, you might even end up on a team with someone who's just there goofing... or a team that's ALL newbies except for you.
Personally I LIKE PUG's. Playing a PUG is like opening a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get :P.
That's probably the worst suggestion in this whole thread.
Elites are easy. They are the top tier endgame content in STO, but they're still easier to do, both skill and gear-wise (there are people finishing optionals with runabouts, oberths and mirandas just for the fun of it, ffs), and faster to explain than pretty much every entry level dungeon or encounter in any other mmo out there.
No need to artificially limit them because some people are too inept to communicate with their fellow team members. Stop considering STO endgame as some kind of super-hard, heroic endgame content that needs to be limited and confined and people have to take some sort of course first to run...
This is the way it is currently so there would really be no change, but yeah it's still a really bad idea.
On my first character, I did 4 or 5 normals before realising I should just do elites instead. I've never been one of those "noob-ish" people that has cost people the mission. I have had a few people either blaming me for other peoples ****-ups, as well as the occasional unfortunate critical in an ISE.
Now, on all my other characters, I've just gone straight to ESTF. On all of these, I've known what I was doing, and had a more-than-good-enough setup.
So, yeah. I did 5 normal's, none of which were really necessary. What you want is for people to do 145.
Plus the fact they'd have no neural processors, so nobody could ever join the eSTF ranks...
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
People would have even less experience, and their equipment would probably still be majorly Mk VI-VII. That would make quite a difference. :P
The day will not save them. And we own the night.
edit:
the unlock should be the accolade for successfully completing the stf with the op. once you get that in normal move on to elite.
Or worse, you get a troll. Some guy who keeps dieing and wandering around making sure you're undermanned for whatever fight you're on. You try talking to him but he doesn't listen let alone reply.
Stuff like this isn't limited to ground though. Yesterday in Conduit I watched three ships together kill off a generator. Instead of getting more generators they immediately pealed off and attacked spheres. Didn't even try for the bonus. I asked why, I tried to explain things, no reply, just them dieing by spheres, or getting to close to the gate and it killing them. Yes, I ended up with a leaver penalty.....
One time through at the very least on regular isn't going to solve the problem, it goes way deeper than that.
It's also worse when the guy is in a geared out Scimitar or something, and the person getting criticized is in a cheap ship.
Personally, I think the "problem" of beginners would be solved by having the Rep/STF missions unlocked at 40 or 45, with the elites unlocked when the person reaches 50.
that's the way it is now but the thing is people are not even doing them till they hit 50 so they can work the rep system. and since they think elite give better rewards they just skip the normal. but if you get the op bonus on a normal its more than a failed elite.
so no fix will be perfect and we will always have problems. but if the elites just were not an option until after a player got the normal accolade it would help. regardless of the players lvl or their ship and equipment.
and for the guy there talking about the tricked out scim. I am not trying to offend you but that is not that good of a ship so just ignore all that stuff and worry about learning HOW to do the missions , because that is far more important than the gear.
Gear is a factor, taking a 6 gun ship with mk IX gear probably wont do to well. but if you can manage the normal and consistently get the ops on them try the elites, some jerks will get mad if you don't do much damage, don't worry about them, as long as you are not TRIBBLE the mission up and causing the loss of the OP bonus on the mission. dps issues can be dealt with later.
Actually the old system just required you to get lucky...
I spent 100+ runs on Cure Ground Elite to get my set piece... I remember being so happy when I got it that I then jumped into an infected ground elite to start that long grind...
I hadn't ran an infected ground elite in months, managed to get lucky with a decent team who know what they were doing... basically my contribution was just not TRIBBLE up, stood in the middle at the end, pretty sure i died before Rebecca did and managed to get my infected ground piece too!
Soooo yeah, the old system was NOT based on "skill" rather just random dumb luck... At least with the new system it requires a set amount of "effort" to get the pieces rather than just relaying purely on the roll of the dice.
Luck based rewards are stupid.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
You still need the optionals on normal to get the unlock.
I got all of my elite accolades in pugs. Then i listened to knowitalls badger people in team chat about 10 percent rules and blowing cure cubes at the same time. (seriously the 10 percent rule is stupid, because youre spreading your dps out, four players hitting 1 thing at the same time is faster in series than 1 player each hitting several things at the same time and then trying to make sure they are all staying in sync)
Then I joined Omega Primary and learned to do a cure elite in 5 minutes by straight up AOE DPSing the whole bloody thing 1 cube at a time with a single guard.
People are people, and its bloody annoying how many people think their way is the best ever.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I love it when people yell at us for 'doing it wrong' then at the end they say 'I never got the optional on this one before.' Our fleet pugs ground Elite STFs all the time still. You are welcome to join us, but be warned, we do not listen to the demands of players insisting we follow what they read on wiki, we run the missions the fun way and still get optionals, usually with 5 minutes to spare.