Constructive Criticism for PVP

shearstress

Hello all
I have been playing STO for about a year and have noticed that there are some major flaws in PVP both in mechanics and in interest factor as the prominent end game content. So I am starting this thread NOT as a bashing of the developers, but as a way to communicate ideas to improve end game content, to the developers. If you would like to contribute to this thread please post your ideas below and describe them in as much detail as possible to help the developers understand what the problems are and how they can be addressed to make PVP more interesting, balanced and lucrative for us the gamers. (Please no discrediting of others ideas also we want to be as constructive as possible not have a slug match between rivals)

Many thanks and I look forward to reading all your ideas!!

-Pyro- (@CarbonBlack)

animusredwing

Top 5 reasons pvp needs a revamp.

1) Bad experience, balance out of wack, new initiates get beaten badly.
2) No real rewards, no gear, no pvp rep etc.
3) Nothing to work towards (gear, prestige).
4) No leaderboard, ladder, rankings, stats.
5) Lack of maps, game modes.


First balance the game, then bring this idea over to STO:

TERRITORY CONTROL

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2550184&postcount=1

OR

http://worldoftanks.com/clanwars/

There needs to be a persistent world that players can AFFECT outcomes. Fighting for a purpose. Fighting for glory, fighting for their team/clan/fleet. This hooks gamers and can bring bags of money to cryptic.

jacknm1

As Discussed in OPvP full 3D Engine for Space Flight would be Awesome, with obvious Issues needing Address such as Dorsil and Ventril sheilding, but this is just to get the ball rolling.

johnny111971

animusredwing wrote: »

TERRITORY CONTROL

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2550184&postcount=1

Just an FYI (I am a territorial control fan myself), it appears the liks in the original message are broken.

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johnny111971

I'm a recent convert to PvP, and have been trying to recruit players from the fleet to join me.. and generally I get the same reaction animusredwing references in #1 of his list.

1) Bad experience, balance out of wack, new initiates get beaten badly.

The PvP Bootcamp helped me tremendously (and something I would recommend to anybody thinking about PvP), as did some experienced PvP Fleets... had some really in depth build discussions with 2 Panda's that were insanely helpful.

The queue games, more often than not, end in a one sided victory (15-0 rapid blowouts). New players can be very discouraged by that (especially if you are on the losing end). To that end, I think that with other level gated missions, you should be grouped with individuals in your PvP skill range.

Honestly, this needs to be a whole seperate system, possibly rep system that unlocks progressively higher levels of PvP queues), and potentially locks lower levels queues from a high skileld pvp'er (or a average of the "team" that is queuing.

drunkadmiral

animusredwing wrote: »

.....

http://worldoftanks.com/clanwars/

There needs to be a persistent world that players can AFFECT outcomes. Fighting for a purpose. Fighting for glory, fighting for their team/clan/fleet. This hooks gamers and can bring bags of money to cryptic.

it would be awesome if we had territory control like in worldoftanks, so fleets could control zones
http://worldoftanks.eu/clanwars/maps/

jacknm1

WorldOfSTO Territory Control, FvK, FvF/KVK Practice Zones etc...


Actual Decent Rewards for Controling a Zone, possible Rolling rewards for controlling it for a lengthy period of time? I dunno, brainstorming.

jacknm1

drunkadmiral wrote: »

The queue games, more often than not, end in a one sided victory (15-0 rapid blowouts). New players can be very discouraged by that (especially if you are on the losing end). To that end, I think that with other level gated missions, you should be grouped with individuals in your PvP skill range.

Generally i found this to Encourage me more, the more i got mad, the more i wanted to win, i knew why i wasn't winning though, so i went for the 1v1 option and actually gained some head way.

marc8219

maybe beginner pvp queue where you would be disqualified if you have either above a certain gear score or x amount of pvp matches already completed.

webdeath

Hmm.. Constructive Criticism.. for PVP..

Give us back PVP only Currency and Gear!
What I mean, is back when the game first came out, each level range had special Currency that you could only get from PVP (Mistake one was making it Multi Level Ranged and not just one Currency) We need to get that back.
And then allow some Gear to be PVP Currency Only acquirable.
Meaning perhaps Special "Ultra Rare" Gear that you can only get from those vendors, similar to Elite Fleet based gear, but with out being Elite Fleet actual Gear. Gear could be anything from new DOFFs to new types of Weapons, Engines, Shields, Deflectors, Warp/singularity Cores, etc.. as well as maybe even a new Set.

Change the KDF kill X Federation player Captain and such missions into simply PVP Kill X Player Captain missions.

If there has to be a PVP Reputation, perhaps instead make it more about accomplishing Accolades and completing the PVP normal and Daily missions and less about Grinding out more Marks and other consumables, because I can only speak for my self, but I am tired of Grinding and it hurts Multi-character players. Which also hurts PVP.

Bring back the space assault map from Season 1 with bug Fixes.

Add an option to choose which side your fighting for in Ker'rat. This would allow players to choose if they want to be on the Klingon side, or the Federation side, as well as help keep things more interesting in Ker'rat.

Personally I like the idea of having a "New pvper" Queue after a player reached the Level Cap. Where once you achieved a specific Accolade, you had "Graduated" and were able to move on. The Accolade could require: X kills, X amount of Damage healed, X amount of Damage Delt, and X Matches played. And the "Newbie" PVP Queue could get locked out after 2 additional accolades were accomplished to allow players to adjust. This would still let players Practice in Ker'rat.

Additional private Que match options. Where you could set things to be like:
FvK (Forced Feds team with Feds, Klingons Team with Klingons)
No Non hanger Pets (Any powers/consoles etc would be greyed out during the match except for hanger based equipment. Not sure how this would effect Mines)
No Cloak (For those who REALLY hate cloak, in a private match could simply make the powers Greyed out and unusable, even by Pets)
No Consoles (This would Grey out any Consoles that require a Click, and also remove effects on ships from Passive Effects from Consoles)
No Singularities (Romulan Singularity Powers would remain greyed out and not gain charges)
No Mines (Mines would remain Greyed out and not fireable with this option)
No Pets (This option, not to be confused with the previous version, would not allow ANY pets to be used, again not sure how this would work with mines)
No Kinetic Resist (All Kinetic Resist is always 0)
No Defense (All Defense is 0)
No Accuracy (All Accuracy would be 0)
No Energy resist (All Energy Resists would be 0)
Spectators Allowed (This would only work if Private matches became Visible, but it would then allow Spectators to join as invisible shuttles to watch the matches)
Bridge Officer Powers ONLY (Meaning NO other abilities would work except for powers from a Bridge officer, all other powers would be Greyed out, including Captain abilities)
etc....

Just some thoughts..

havam

When is the last time Cryptic was constructive about pvp...when introducing the Romulans, QnAing webmines, when telling us to expect unprecedented changes under the reign of Gozer....or when Season 8 became pvp season?

Lack of creative thinking, and constructive criticism is not, never has been and never will be a problem in STO pvp. The only people refusing to be constructive sit in Cryptic's HQ

amoroxic

animusredwing wrote: »

Top 5 reasons pvp needs a revamp.

1) Bad experience, balance out of wack, new initiates get beaten badly.
2) No real rewards, no gear, no pvp rep etc.
3) Nothing to work towards (gear, prestige).
4) No leaderboard, ladder, rankings, stats.
5) Lack of maps, game modes.


First balance the game, then bring this idea over to STO:

TERRITORY CONTROL

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2550184&postcount=1

OR

http://worldoftanks.com/clanwars/

There needs to be a persistent world that players can AFFECT outcomes. Fighting for a purpose. Fighting for glory, fighting for their team/clan/fleet. This hooks gamers and can bring bags of money to cryptic.

Nothing more to add here, spot on on all issues, but somehow i fear nothing close to this is in the cryptic developers immediate plans...

PS: http://worldofwarplanes.com/clanwars/ still in beta but i like it better than... tanks xD

captainedna

still trying to understand why theres a pvp forum.I mean making a forum section for pvp is the only thing they made for pvp in sto

jornado

animusredwing wrote: »

Top 5 reasons pvp needs a revamp.

1) Bad experience, balance out of wack, new initiates get beaten badly.

This is unfortunately a fact of life in MMO PvP - a few have mitigated this by allowing player to create endgame toons with PvP capable gear right off the bat, but skill and talent will always play a significant factor - not sure if his can feasibly be fixed.

2) No real rewards, no gear, no pvp rep etc.

This I agree with completely - since you can't really expect new players to be on par with veterans, a reward system would offer real incentives.

3) Nothing to work towards (gear, prestige).

Same as above, but on the prestige front - we all know, after hitting the queues for a few weeks, who the really good players are, and which ones are just cheese factories. Prestige cannot by indicated purely by win/loss ratio - it is a form of respect and right now, you earn it the same way you would in any system they implemented - by being good.

4) No leaderboard, ladder, rankings, stats.

Ties into above - after a few weeks in the queues, you don't need a leaderboard to know that some players are good in whatever ship they choose to fly. Rankings and stats will ALWAYS be subject to kill/loss farmers, and exploiters. They only serve to inflate epeen and offer no real information. Game that have leaderboards and rankings tend to have a much larger population of juvenile epeeners, or at least a larger population of loud-mouthed braggarts.

5) Lack of maps, game modes.

Completely agree.

Response in red. Cheers!

fredscarran

Mix Real Time Strategy with PVP. You know like in StarCraft you collect stuff and then build defenses and bases, and have NPC's doing your bidding. Combine that and this game, whallah, real fun.

And make it more Starcraft'like and less like Eve Online. No it shouldn't take 50 players 50 years to build a starbase, it should take 1 player 50 minutes of effort.

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You know I say this on every gaming forum, and nobody listens. WOW, SWG, Eve Online, it works for all of them. It would be much more interested than: meh whatever Arena PVP.

fireshot00

STO has done nothing in its existence in favor of pvp, after more than 3 years when almost the entire pvp community has left the game and anything perfect world or cryptic studios there is a re-announcement of a pvp balance system.

This coming only a few days after moderators communicated to the community that perfect world does not consider the pvp community to exist in star trek as the community size is very small and shrinking and the financial benefits from the community is so limited it is unfeasible to dedicate dev time to that component of the game.

To boot it all a huge chunk of the pvp community has left the game after the revelation of certain third party softwares that allow for completely bypassing the game mechanic and automatic almost every function of the game to the point that reportedly it is capable of playing the game as an artificial intelligence.

You would have to excuse me if i have no faith in developer capability to do as they claim, or the game managers' commitment to developing the pvp component of the game as they claim.

maicake716

nice ideas...


such a waste though.

andoriansrus

I for one would support the ability to capture sectors of space... home sectors are safe but make any other sector up for grabs.... Im looking at the model from Pirates of the Burning Seas PVP the Realm vs Realm model where there were the French vs the Spanish vs The British vs the Pirates vs French... yes it was difficult but it was fun... and what with multiple ways of getting around in this game I thing a Pirates of the Burning Seas Style Realm Vs. Realm way of PVP could be fun....

works like this

Faction A decides they wish to capture a sector block.... well faction A would have to grind up tension level of that sector to a point that it would flip and become a PVP area (if you fly into this area you are flagged for PVP and can be attacked) once a certain level of tension have been achieved the sector is considered hostile for 48 hours(Im only explaining this to those unfamiliar to Pirates of the Burning Seas) at the end of the 48 hour period invites go out for all the players of both factions involved and only players that helped in grinding up the tension of that sector block for the battle (and the defending players have earned tension by trying to grind down the tension n the sector)

at the end of the 48hour Hostilities there is a big battle and the winner gains control of that sector.... this plays on until one faction captures enough sectors to be declared in control of the quadrant.....

benefits of victory would be something like a title accolade and a buff of some kind for the winning faction like an XP buff for the lower level players to help them to level faster.. maybe give a small prize in dilithium and or zen as well.....

I think this kind of sandbox like PVP where the outcome matters for something would be an AWESOME addition

just my 2 energy credits worth

dgdolph

sophlogimo wrote: »

First and foremost, a 1v1 queue is worth considering.

This just won't work in STO!

1) Only "Escort vs Escort" matches have a chance to come to an end. Well equipped Cruisers and (most) Sci's won't be able to kill each other.

2) Newbs will get roflstomped harder than ever when there's no team backing them up and quit PvP for good.


...just my 2 cents

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mozoha

There is a ton of content and grind in this game, you would think PVP content would really flesh out this title into a complete game. A dynamic, persistent zone that players could influence would be great. A pvp mission where you had to escort a ship across a map would be cool and perhaps make healing cruisers a place in the new pvp. There are lots of ideas, in the countless threads like this..... Please cryptic pvp is really a great thing in STO, just spend a little time making the missions/maps include something besides pew pew. Please cryptic. Pretty please.

highlet

fredscarran wrote: »

Mix Real Time Strategy with PVP. You know like in StarCraft you collect stuff and then build defenses and bases, and have NPC's doing your bidding. Combine that and this game, whallah, real fun.

And make it more Starcraft'like and less like Eve Online. No it shouldn't take 50 players 50 years to build a starbase, it should take 1 player 50 minutes of effort.

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You know I say this on every gaming forum, and nobody listens. WOW, SWG, Eve Online, it works for all of them. It would be much more interested than: meh whatever Arena PVP.

I suggest you go play an RTS and quit pushing this god awful, terrible idea of yours that this game should be converted to an RTS. No one listens to you because it's a terrible ****ing idea. There are plenty of games that fulfill this niche. Go play one of those.