With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
No, OP wants more universal slots on the mogai, and wants a double LtCmdr.
Wait, he wants a Tac version of the Atrox/Vo'quv bridge officer arrangement, with higher tier powers but less bridge officer seats?
I admit that could be cool, but remember that more boff seats means more space for Romulan, Reman, Liberated Borg, etc space traits. While the carrier setup is cool for having a slight increase in the relative tier of your powers, you sacrifice a birdge officer's space traits to get there. Given the decloak bonuses available via Romulan and Reman bridge officers that compliment the faction's playstyle, it may not work out as a benefit in the end.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Wait, he wants a Tac version of the Atrox/Vo'quv bridge officer arrangement, with higher tier powers but less bridge officer seats?
I admit that could be cool, but remember that more boff seats means more space for Romulan, Reman, Liberated Borg, etc space traits. While the carrier setup is cool for having a slight increase in the relative tier of your powers, you sacrifice a birdge officer's space traits to get there. Given the decloak bonuses available via Romulan and Reman bridge officers that compliment the faction's playstyle, it may not work out as a benefit in the end.
...
No. What he wants is the Cmdr Tactical, LtCmdr Tactical, LtCmdr Science. PLUS everything it already has. But read all of OPs posts, and just read the whole thread in general. You'll come to a few realizations about OP that I cannot state openly since doing so would violate forum rules and regulations involving flaming/trolling, and you'll see all the pointers/tips/advice/common sense that we've been trying to give him that have been... ineffective.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The Mogai has it's good points and a couple ( to me ) minor issues, but overall it is a good ship, and i use it almost exclusively. all depends on your build and the tactics you employ with said build, I am constantly tinkering with both to find my style of combat and operation in general.
anyway...now that we are at the armitage mogai great comparison, i don't understand why the armitage was not conceived as a destroyer! a turn of 12-13 would fit it much better.
same goes with the multivector...both ships have always been more like a cruiser than an escort in the show/film. And honestly i see good reason to have more destroyers in game...
the jem hadar escort carrier has lower turnrate and practically fills the same role as the armitage...
just saying, imo a major design flaw...yet not really impacting the game much. would just feel better to have the "destroyer" be more distinguished from escorts.
Perhaps age03 is referring to the Mogai REFIT rather than the RETROFIT?
The REFIT (the Valdore) is a T3 ship. It's official designation is the Valdore Heavy Warbird, or it could also be known as the Mogai Heavy Warbird REFIT if you go by more Fed-class designations. It has exactly 9 Bridge Officer stations and 6 console slots. It is a T3 ship, a lowert Tier than the standard T4 Defiant, Galaxy, D'deridex, Intrepid, Ki'tang, Pach, standard Vor'cha and a whole bunch of other ships.
The Mogai Heavy Warbird RETROFIT is a T5 ship with exactly 12 Bridge Officer stations and 9 console slots (10 on the Fleet version).
The Refit is NOT the Retrofit. They are two separate ships.
Notice they are two separate pages? Notice how in both the wiki and the game they are separate ships? Perhaps this was the confusion present at hand
Play my missions on Holodeck! Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series) Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series) Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
Notice they are two separate pages? Notice how in both the wiki and the game they are separate ships? Perhaps this was the confusion present at hand
No. That was not the confusion. It's just age03 being age03. IE a total... well I cannot go into what I actually think because I don't feel like getting banned for a week again XD.
Sufficed to say, if you search his threads and posts over the entirety of the forums, you will see why baudl and I laugh at him more often than not. And you probably will too.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I can do this all day with all the end-game ships (other than BoPs). They all have 12 BOff slots. The Mogai is no different. The Mogai Retrofit has 12 BOff slots and 9 consoles. The fleet version has 12 BOff slots and 10 consoles. It's no different from ANY other Tier V/fleet refit.
Don't be confusing the OP with facts. Shame on you.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
No. That was not the confusion. It's just age03 being age03. IE a total... well I cannot go into what I actually think because I don't feel like getting banned for a week again XD.
Sufficed to say, if you search his threads and posts over the entirety of the forums, you will see why baudl and I laugh at him more often than not. And you probably will too.
I have seen the threads :P
xD
Play my missions on Holodeck! Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series) Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series) Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
anyway...now that we are at the armitage mogai great comparison, i don't understand why the armitage was not conceived as a destroyer! a turn of 12-13 would fit it much better.
same goes with the multivector...both ships have always been more like a cruiser than an escort in the show/film. And honestly i see good reason to have more destroyers in game...
the jem hadar escort carrier has lower turnrate and practically fills the same role as the armitage...
just saying, imo a major design flaw...yet not really impacting the game much. would just feel better to have the "destroyer" be more distinguished from escorts.
I'm not 100% sure but didn't the MVAE & HEC come from a time before the Destroyer?
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I'm not 100% sure but didn't the MVAE & HEC come from a time before the Destroyer?
The MVAE had been out for quite a while. The HEC though was the first of what we call "Destroyer" these days, defined by Cmdr TAC station with a LtCdr ENG BOFF station. We didn't call it that back then though, but the BOFF stations fit to the "T" as to what a Destroyer would later be known by. It just happened to have a hangar also.
The MVAE had been out for quite a while. The HEC though was the first of what we call "Destroyer" these days, defined by Cmdr TAC station with a LtCdr ENG BOFF station. We didn't call it that back then though, but the BOFF stations fit to the "T" as to what a Destroyer would later be known by. It just happened to have a hangar also.
Actually it was the Guramba which was the first Destroyer in December 2010, hence "Guramba Siege Destroyer". The MVAE didn't come until March of 2011, three months afterwards and of course the HEC June 2012. After that, the Vandal and the Scourge in December 2011 with S5 and then the fleet system with the Scourge, the Temporal ships in Sep 2012 and the Vet ships one month later.
Even by both of those definitions, both the MVAE and HEC are both Escorts, not Destroyers. Destroyers are the Guramba, Scourge, Temporal ships and Vet ships, they have slightly different stats. However slight, they are different from one another.
Play my missions on Holodeck! Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series) Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series) Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
Actually the first true destroyers were the Vet ships. Destroyers aren't defined by their BOffs so much as by their hull and turn/inertia stats. The Garumba, HEC and AE are all still considered escorts due to their low (relatively) hull, and high turn.
The Chimera and Pegh'qu were the first true destroyers in that they had somewhat higher hull than your normal escorts but a reduced turn rate to compensate for it, while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical Slot (which seems to be the only real requirement for a destroyer). The next prime example of a destroyer was the Chel'gret, with it's very high base hull (36k) and reduced turn (13) while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical. And since then, the only other true destroyer has been the Mogai, again due to it's high hull and lowered turn rate on the Cmdr Tactical.
Destroyers in this game seem to follow these rules: Higher hull than escorts, but lower than cruisers, higher turn than cruisers and sci, but lower than escorts, Cmdr Tactical, LtCmdr something else.
Just saying.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Actually the first true destroyers were the Vet ships. Destroyers aren't defined by their BOffs so much as by their hull and turn/inertia stats. The Garumba, HEC and AE are all still considered escorts due to their low (relatively) hull, and high turn.
The Chimera and Pegh'qu were the first true destroyers in that they had somewhat higher hull than your normal escorts but a reduced turn rate to compensate for it, while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical Slot (which seems to be the only real requirement for a destroyer). The next prime example of a destroyer was the Chel'gret, with it's very high base hull (36k) and reduced turn (13) while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical. And since then, the only other true destroyer has been the Mogai, again due to it's high hull and lowered turn rate on the Cmdr Tactical.
Destroyers in this game seem to follow these rules: Higher hull than escorts, but lower than cruisers, higher turn than cruisers and sci, but lower than escorts, Cmdr Tactical, LtCmdr something else.
Just saying.
Nausicaan Destroyers and the Temporal Destroyers came before the Vet ships
Check their classification in the game and STOWiki (and their names, the name Destroyer in each of them kinda gives it away )
Just correcting some facts
Play my missions on Holodeck! Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series) Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series) Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
Nausicaan Destroyers and the Temporal Destroyers came before the Vet ships
Check their classification in the game and STOWiki (and their names, the name Destroyer in each of them kinda gives it away )
Just correcting some facts
Next up, how about you try to explain how every single Dreadnought type ship is fundamentally different from every other Dreadnought type ship, yet all are still called Dreadnoughts.
What Cryptic decides to call something, and what it actually is are two different things. The Garumba for instance is effectively a KDF Patrol Escort. The Mobius and Krenn are watered down JHAS ships, which are much closer to the Escort pattern than the Escort-Cruiser hybrid pattern that the Vet ships pioneered for the Destroyer "class".
Nausicaan Destroyers and the Temporal Destroyers came before the Vet ships
Check their classification in the game and STOWiki (and their names, the name Destroyer in each of them kinda gives it away )
Just correcting some facts
And yet the Chel'gret is referred to in-game as a "cruiser" and is very much a destroyer. Also the Sovereign and Majestic and Noble class ships are referred to as "battleships" and yet are very much cruisers. I could go on for a while. Name doesn't mean anything. What a ship is classed as is dependent on stats.
As was said, Cruiser/Escort Hybrids (which the Mobius/Krenn and Garumba are NOT) are Destroyers. So you are "correcting" facts that are already correct with false information.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Actually it was the Guramba which was the first Destroyer in December 2010, hence "Guramba Siege Destroyer". The MVAE didn't come until March of 2011, three months afterwards and of course the HEC June 2012. After that, the Vandal and the Scourge in December 2011 with S5 and then the fleet system with the Scourge, the Temporal ships in Sep 2012 and the Vet ships one month later.
Even by both of those definitions, both the MVAE and HEC are both Escorts, not Destroyers. Destroyers are the Guramba, Scourge, Temporal ships and Vet ships, they have slightly different stats. However slight, they are different from one another.
Unless I've learned things differently from others, when people say "Destroyers" for STO, to me it's markedly different from the traditional "Escort."
When I see "Escort," I see the typical Cmdr & LtCdr TAC BOFF stations, 4-5 TAC Console Slots. The Defiant, Raptors, Patrol Escort, and even the Guramba fits this to a "T" despite the Guramba being called a "Siege Destroyer." Escorts are typically affiliated with no better than Lt ENG BOFF stations.
When I see "Destroyer," there typically will still be a high TAC layout with a stronger ENG layout to support that. This is with a minimum Cmdr TAC station, still 4-5 TAC Console Slots, and backed up with a LtCdr ENG BOFF station. Like I said before, the Fed HEC/Akira was the first to break into this mold. Another close example is the JHEC. The Mogai fits this ideal perfectly, while still breaking the mold on its own by still having the more potent Romulan Battle Cloak, instead of normal Battle Cloak or now obsolete regular Cloak.
Now, things do get blurry these days with Cryptic giving everybody Universal BOFF stations whereas before they used to be only on KDF BOPs. The Fleet Ha'feh can be made into a traditional "Escort" or a defined "Destroyer."
The Fleet Ha'feh can be both. With T5 military shipyard access, the Fleet Ha'feh, statistics wise, can be made to fill practically any Escort / Destroyer style... capably, too. I just can't get over how ugly the made up sex toy-birds look
Escorts and Destroyers function nearly identical do we really need to spend ages debating which is which.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Comments
In any case, it is fine as is.
Honestly, I actually prefer the setup the Mogai has. If it had the a Cmdr/Lt. Cmdr Tac setup it would be a Ha'feh...
No, OP wants more universal slots on the mogai, and wants a double LtCmdr.
Wait, he wants a Tac version of the Atrox/Vo'quv bridge officer arrangement, with higher tier powers but less bridge officer seats?
I admit that could be cool, but remember that more boff seats means more space for Romulan, Reman, Liberated Borg, etc space traits. While the carrier setup is cool for having a slight increase in the relative tier of your powers, you sacrifice a birdge officer's space traits to get there. Given the decloak bonuses available via Romulan and Reman bridge officers that compliment the faction's playstyle, it may not work out as a benefit in the end.
...
No. What he wants is the Cmdr Tactical, LtCmdr Tactical, LtCmdr Science. PLUS everything it already has. But read all of OPs posts, and just read the whole thread in general. You'll come to a few realizations about OP that I cannot state openly since doing so would violate forum rules and regulations involving flaming/trolling, and you'll see all the pointers/tips/advice/common sense that we've been trying to give him that have been... ineffective.
Since you have the retrofit all you need is one Fleet Ship Module.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!
You know lately all I see is people wanting things made into a crutch so they don't have to do anything, its a disease !
anyway...now that we are at the armitage mogai great comparison, i don't understand why the armitage was not conceived as a destroyer! a turn of 12-13 would fit it much better.
same goes with the multivector...both ships have always been more like a cruiser than an escort in the show/film. And honestly i see good reason to have more destroyers in game...
the jem hadar escort carrier has lower turnrate and practically fills the same role as the armitage...
just saying, imo a major design flaw...yet not really impacting the game much. would just feel better to have the "destroyer" be more distinguished from escorts.
The REFIT (the Valdore) is a T3 ship. It's official designation is the Valdore Heavy Warbird, or it could also be known as the Mogai Heavy Warbird REFIT if you go by more Fed-class designations. It has exactly 9 Bridge Officer stations and 6 console slots. It is a T3 ship, a lowert Tier than the standard T4 Defiant, Galaxy, D'deridex, Intrepid, Ki'tang, Pach, standard Vor'cha and a whole bunch of other ships.
The Mogai Heavy Warbird RETROFIT is a T5 ship with exactly 12 Bridge Officer stations and 9 console slots (10 on the Fleet version).
The Refit is NOT the Retrofit. They are two separate ships.
Mogai Heavy Warbird Refit = T3
Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit = T5
Notice they are two separate pages? Notice how in both the wiki and the game they are separate ships? Perhaps this was the confusion present at hand
Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series)
Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series)
Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
No. That was not the confusion. It's just age03 being age03. IE a total... well I cannot go into what I actually think because I don't feel like getting banned for a week again XD.
Sufficed to say, if you search his threads and posts over the entirety of the forums, you will see why baudl and I laugh at him more often than not. And you probably will too.
Don't be confusing the OP with facts. Shame on you.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I have seen the threads :P
xD
Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series)
Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series)
Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
But... But... But... -.-
Then I rest my case.
I'm not 100% sure but didn't the MVAE & HEC come from a time before the Destroyer?
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
The MVAE had been out for quite a while. The HEC though was the first of what we call "Destroyer" these days, defined by Cmdr TAC station with a LtCdr ENG BOFF station. We didn't call it that back then though, but the BOFF stations fit to the "T" as to what a Destroyer would later be known by. It just happened to have a hangar also.
Nope, after (see below)
Actually it was the Guramba which was the first Destroyer in December 2010, hence "Guramba Siege Destroyer". The MVAE didn't come until March of 2011, three months afterwards and of course the HEC June 2012. After that, the Vandal and the Scourge in December 2011 with S5 and then the fleet system with the Scourge, the Temporal ships in Sep 2012 and the Vet ships one month later.
Even by both of those definitions, both the MVAE and HEC are both Escorts, not Destroyers. Destroyers are the Guramba, Scourge, Temporal ships and Vet ships, they have slightly different stats. However slight, they are different from one another.
Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series)
Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series)
Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
The Chimera and Pegh'qu were the first true destroyers in that they had somewhat higher hull than your normal escorts but a reduced turn rate to compensate for it, while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical Slot (which seems to be the only real requirement for a destroyer). The next prime example of a destroyer was the Chel'gret, with it's very high base hull (36k) and reduced turn (13) while still maintaining the Cmdr Tactical. And since then, the only other true destroyer has been the Mogai, again due to it's high hull and lowered turn rate on the Cmdr Tactical.
Destroyers in this game seem to follow these rules: Higher hull than escorts, but lower than cruisers, higher turn than cruisers and sci, but lower than escorts, Cmdr Tactical, LtCmdr something else.
Just saying.
Nausicaan Destroyers and the Temporal Destroyers came before the Vet ships
Check their classification in the game and STOWiki (and their names, the name Destroyer in each of them kinda gives it away
Just correcting some facts
Return of Ja'Dok Series (6 Part Series)
Enemy of the Exile Series (4 Part Series)
Task Force Ja'Dok Series (3 Part Series)
Next up, how about you try to explain how every single Dreadnought type ship is fundamentally different from every other Dreadnought type ship, yet all are still called Dreadnoughts.
What Cryptic decides to call something, and what it actually is are two different things. The Garumba for instance is effectively a KDF Patrol Escort. The Mobius and Krenn are watered down JHAS ships, which are much closer to the Escort pattern than the Escort-Cruiser hybrid pattern that the Vet ships pioneered for the Destroyer "class".
And yet the Chel'gret is referred to in-game as a "cruiser" and is very much a destroyer. Also the Sovereign and Majestic and Noble class ships are referred to as "battleships" and yet are very much cruisers. I could go on for a while. Name doesn't mean anything. What a ship is classed as is dependent on stats.
As was said, Cruiser/Escort Hybrids (which the Mobius/Krenn and Garumba are NOT) are Destroyers. So you are "correcting" facts that are already correct with false information.
Unless I've learned things differently from others, when people say "Destroyers" for STO, to me it's markedly different from the traditional "Escort."
When I see "Escort," I see the typical Cmdr & LtCdr TAC BOFF stations, 4-5 TAC Console Slots. The Defiant, Raptors, Patrol Escort, and even the Guramba fits this to a "T" despite the Guramba being called a "Siege Destroyer." Escorts are typically affiliated with no better than Lt ENG BOFF stations.
When I see "Destroyer," there typically will still be a high TAC layout with a stronger ENG layout to support that. This is with a minimum Cmdr TAC station, still 4-5 TAC Console Slots, and backed up with a LtCdr ENG BOFF station. Like I said before, the Fed HEC/Akira was the first to break into this mold. Another close example is the JHEC. The Mogai fits this ideal perfectly, while still breaking the mold on its own by still having the more potent Romulan Battle Cloak, instead of normal Battle Cloak or now obsolete regular Cloak.
Now, things do get blurry these days with Cryptic giving everybody Universal BOFF stations whereas before they used to be only on KDF BOPs. The Fleet Ha'feh can be made into a traditional "Escort" or a defined "Destroyer."
Therefore, it is tac primarily, but eng heavy.
So no thank you, no updates needed.
Want a Lt Cmd Tac? Then fly a Ha'feh.
Join the Deltas today!
The Fleet Ha'feh can be both. With T5 military shipyard access, the Fleet Ha'feh, statistics wise, can be made to fill practically any Escort / Destroyer style... capably, too. I just can't get over how ugly the made up sex toy-birds look
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
This is an online game forum. What do you think?
My spiked Klingon boots have the hides of many dead horses still stuck on it.