However there is one tactical issue in a stealth carrier. A stealth ship relies on the ability to evade at will, having fighters diminishes that. You have to recall the fighters before you evade otherwise they are dead either because you can't support them or you can't return to retrieve them.
That's a good point, and part of the reason behind using the carrier, on my example, mostly against lightly protected civilian targets: A carrier should be able to deal with militia/police ships while launching an all out attack against civilian targets across a relatively wide area, then recall everything and get out of dodge before military ships arrive.
I saw the stealth carrier as more of a harassment/terror asset. Say, the Federation does have hundreds of colony worlds a proper military ship may need days or weeks to reach. By that time the colonists are dead, the facilities are destroyed, and the carrier is on route to a completely different site. It's purpose would be to destroy morale, interrupt trade, and cause discontent: If the state does not send ships to protect those colonies, people will be pissed off. If the state does, the important targets will be less protected. At that it is far more effective than a normal warbird by virtue of being able to launch and coordinate strikes and raids across a large area. Against civilian targets you do not really need a great deal of focused firepower, smaller firepower over a large area is far more effective for harassment/terror tactics.
In a proper battle against enemy warships it would revert to the 'mobile staging area' idea: Fleet support, ECM, ECCM, coordination, etc.
If you are using some kind of drone as your carrier's airwing we arrive at a dilemma, does the cost and utility expendable fighters off set the loss of non-consumable shipboard weapons?
That's something to keep in mind as well. Yet I believe drone ships would also be far cheaper than a proper runabout or fighter as they can be built as little more than an impulse engine, a big cannon, and a holodude. Or an impulse engine, a thalaron warhead, and a holodude with a cowboy hat.
Well that is the elephant in the room for Star Trek space combat. Since even shuttles can achieve warp speeds. What is to stop someone from building a bunch of cloaking drone ships and ramming them in to planets at warp 9?
The fact that Star Trek was never suposed to be militaristic Sci Fi?
Once you achieve FTL travel and the power sources needed for such conventional warfare is over. And when you are talking about species able to contain blackholes and antimatter as well...
i think warp drive does not function in a way that you can colide with something that exists in normal space...when in warp, the ship is in a warp bubble (in subspace)
but your point is still relevant even at the speeds of full impulse, which is supposed to be a considerable fraction of C...which is already enough kinetic energy to devastate small planets or moons...certainly starbases.
but then again, real physics (and all the consequences) hardly ever apply in star trek.
i think warp drive does not function in a way that you can colide with something that exists in normal space...when in warp, the ship is in a warp bubble (in subspace)
In contrast to many other fictional FTL technologies, such as a "jump drive" or the Infinite Improbability Drive, the warp drive does not permit instantaneous travel between two points; instead, warp drive technology creates an artificial "bubble" of normal space-time that surrounds the spacecraft (as opposed to entering a separate realm or dimension like hyperspace, as is used in the Star Wars, Stargate franchise, Warhammer 40,000, Babylon 5, Cowboy Bebop and Andromeda universes). Consequently, spacecraft at warp velocity can continue to interact with objects in "normal space".
It's been many years since I looked closely at the physics but from memory warp functions by stretching the ship - which you can see in the special effects when they jump into and out of warp. The theoretical limit of not being able to reach warp 10 is because that would mean stretching a ship to the point of being the size of the universe, i.e. everywhere at once.
I think the warp bubble regulates the stretching to both normalise space within the bubble and to stretch the ship in such a way that it gets to its destination. But I never did wrap my head around the how.
i think warp drive does not function in a way that you can colide with something that exists in normal space...when in warp, the ship is in a warp bubble (in subspace)
but your point is still relevant even at the speeds of full impulse, which is supposed to be a considerable fraction of C...which is already enough kinetic energy to devastate small planets or moons...certainly starbases.
but then again, real physics (and all the consequences) hardly ever apply in star trek.
From Enterprise:
REED: Pardon me, but if I don't realign the deflector, the first grain of space dust we come across will blow a hole through this ship the size of your fist.
TUCKER: Keep your shirt on, Lieutenant. Your equipment'll be here in the morning.
From the unaired pilot:
SPOCK: It can't be the screen then. Definitely something out there, Captain, headed this way.
TYLER: It could be these meteorites.
ONE: No, it's something else. There's still something out there.
TYLER: It's coming at the speed of light, collision course. The meteorite beam has not deflected it, Captain.
ONE: Evasive manoeuvres, sir?
PIKE: Steady as we go.
GARISON: It's a radio wave, sir. We're passing through an old-style distress signal.
As we can see a ship traveling at warp can encounter space dust or meteors from regular space, and even radio waves which we know travel in the same space as objects not traveling at warp.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Now put your technobabble dictionaries and space warfare manifests aside and lets get back on topic about a Romulan Dedicated Carrier.
I personally believe that a Romulan Carrier will not possess a Romulan Battle Cloak (None of the other Carriers, even the 2 KDF ones, have a dedicated cloak), but will obviously have Singularity Powers.
They can't make a full Romulan carrier, they tried and it would not fit in any of the STF maps, it was too big, and current gear cannot make it move or turn.
However, it could be one shot(ed) with any torpedo. (The Scimitar feature)
To be honest, I don't think we Romulans need a Carrier. More ships, absolutely, but not carriers. I'd rather we have more smaller and nimble escourts as we're rather lacking in that department.
IF however the Romulan Republic got it's own carrier I'd imagine that's what our "Veteran Ship" will be when that gets made eventually.
THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS TRYULIS Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
My guess is the Romulan full carrier will be a Suliban ship, full Helix capable of launching cell ships. It will be the militizied verison of the trade ship out now, notice how helix is not innthat ships name?
If they make a Romulan carrier I think it should be more strategic and not another behemoth.
If Romulans want to conquer a world they already have ample juggernauts to blast a world into submission but they really lack a covert force for strategic strikes on enemy bases. We've seen one side of the Romulans where they use massive power to overwhelm their enemies but we really haven't seen much of the other side of the coin. The deadly well placed blow to cut off the head of the snake so to speak that vanishes before the Romulan juggernauts need even be called in.
Hence we need a small low energy signature ship that can sneak behind enemies lines and strike hard then pull out quickly before the enemy forces can even react. I would suggest a fragile hulled craft with a trait that increased fighter range plus a long range bombardment. Add another hanger to increase damage plus a stealth bonus and you have a deadly illusive ship to spread fear among the enemies of the republic.
The scimitar is our battle blade in war but we need a dagger for the assassinations in the night.
If we do get a full carrier I do hope we get Romulan fighters. I doubt the Vet or Flagship will have a hanger(s) because they will probably be just like the Fed and KDF versions of them.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Judging by the windows and guesstimating decks, it's way too small to be a dedicated 2 hangar carrier.
Also going by the url "xromvet" it's the 1k Veteran ship like the Fed Chimera and KDF Peghqu' Heavy Destroyers. That section on top of the hull between the wings could be an animated part where a plasma or disruptor lotus emerge like the Peghqu' disruptor lotus.
Also going by the url "xromvet" it's the 1k Veteran ship like the Fed Chimera and KDF Peghqu' Heavy Destroyers.
Strong probability it is but you never know might be available to everyone or for those who participated in the beta. To bad for me I missed that week.>.>
I was one of the ones arguing against 2 hangars for the Scimitar and glad it turned out that way. There is no way the Scimitar would have the stats and abilities it has now if it were given 2 hangars, and it has to be a strong ship in its own right first and foremost for it to be canon. If it had 2 hangars it would probably be more similar to a Jem dread for it to be balanced, meaning worse boff layout, 1 less tac console, 1 less weapon slot, worse turn. Not fitting for the Scimitar, let some other model be used as a 2 hangar carrier. I bought the 3 pack right away, and I wouldn't have bought it as a full carrier with worse stats. I'm glad the Scimitar model wasn't wasted on a 2 hangar carrier.
I'm dearly hoping that there will be a Romulan/Reman carrier soon. I had thought that the Scimitar's single hangar would be able to satiate my insane hunger for carrier action... I was wrong :P
I'd also like it if they came out with more romulan/reman hangar ships.
It'd be nice to have some variants on some of the other KDF and FED hangers, like Romulan Privateers (Slavers with plasma beams/mines) or Romulan Kestrals (a variant of one of the runabouts/shuttles).
I remember back in the day, before DS9 threw in a couple fighters to make things look more exciting. When it made sense that there were no fighters in Star Trek because even a contemporary computer, armed with an energy weapon would never miss a small target.
Fighters actually don't make sense in Star Trek.
I know you can miss in this game, but realistically (and in canon for the most part) phasers rarely to never miss. Because of this, launching small ships would be a waste of resources, as the big ships that routinely have 20 or more phaser banks would just vaporize them.
Fighters were always a Star Wars thing ('cause blasters don't travel at the speed of light).
Completely agree although I still like the ship for what it is.
heheheh.. Could you guys imagine a carrier with two hangars of drones?? Every fight would be launch the drones ( four of them over a 30 second period ) cloak and go have dinner while the drones mop up the playing field.. Yes, they are that strong.
A gentleman called the scimitar an abomination. I say that a carrier outfitted with drones would be the greatest abomination this game has ever seen..
heheheh.. Could you guys imagine a carrier with two hangars of drones?? Every fight would be launch the drones ( four of them over a 30 second period ) cloak and go have dinner while the drones mop up the playing field.. Yes, they are that strong.
A gentleman called the scimitar an abomination. I say that a carrier outfitted with drones would be the greatest abomination this game has ever seen..
I run the drones in my scimitar right now. They make one heck of a difference. In PVP they really mess with people. I would love to have 2 hangers to launch more.
I know you can miss in this game, but realistically (and in canon for the most part) phasers rarely to never miss. Because of this, launching small ships would be a waste of resources, as the big ships that routinely have 20 or more phaser banks would just vaporize them.
If you'd follow that theory, we wouldn't have fighters or small craft in any other science fiction series, weather it'd be BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond, StarCom or B5.
While not (or seldomly) seen in canon trek, fighters have been reappearing and been popular in non-canon, yet licensed Trek works as well. Weather it'd be the old Starfleet battles, novels or many of the newer ST video games (e.g. Invasion, SFC etc...)
If you'd follow that theory, we wouldn't have fighters or small craft in any other science fiction series, weather it'd be BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond, StarCom or B5.
While not (or seldomly) seen in canon trek, fighters have been reappearing and been popular in non-canon, yet licensed Trek works as well. Weather it'd be the old Starfleet battles, novels or many of the newer ST video games (e.g. Invasion, SFC etc...)
Except BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond and B5 (can't speak for StarCom) don't have speed-of-light weaponry.
Quite besides which, the point of fighters in (pseudo-)naval warfare is that they exploit the principle whereby a very small craft (fighter-bomber) can carry ordinance well capable of destroying a far larger (battleship) craft because destructive power far outstrips the defensive capabilities of armour. Star Trek quite specifically avoids this via the presence of energy Shields that render torpedos largely useless until they've been taken down or severely weakened by directed-energy weapons fire. A fighter lacks the huge power core and arsenal of a larger ship, and thus (based on evidence from the shows r.e. runabouts attacking anything bigger than a freighter) are unable to dent the shields, rendering any torpedo ordinance moot.
I don't really get the obsession with carriers in STO, to be honest. Not a single Federation, Klingon or Romulan carrier ever appeared on-screen (although fighters, dubiously, did and the Kazon used carriers), nor - as far as I recall - was one ever mentioned. I can buy that they exist, of course, but it's not in keeping with the source material for them to be so imposing. The Enterprises weren't carriers, they were battleships. The Neg'vhar, the Breen and Jem'hadar battleships/battlecruisers, so on and so forth. All 'gunships' to use the naval comparative.
Except BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond and B5 (can't speak for StarCom) don't have speed-of-light weaponry.
Quite besides which, the point of fighters in (pseudo-)naval warfare is that they exploit the principle whereby a very small craft (fighter-bomber) can carry ordinance well capable of destroying a far larger (battleship) craft because destructive power far outstrips the defensive capabilities of armour. Star Trek quite specifically avoids this via the presence of energy Shields that render torpedos largely useless until they've been taken down or severely weakened by directed-energy weapons fire. A fighter lacks the huge power core and arsenal of a larger ship, and thus (based on evidence from the shows r.e. runabouts attacking anything bigger than a freighter) are unable to dent the shields, rendering any torpedo ordinance moot.
I don't really get the obsession with carriers in STO, to be honest. Not a single Federation, Klingon or Romulan carrier ever appeared on-screen (although fighters, dubiously, did and the Kazon used carriers), nor - as far as I recall - was one ever mentioned. I can buy that they exist, of course, but it's not in keeping with the source material for them to be so imposing. The Enterprises weren't carriers, they were battleships. The Neg'vhar, the Breen and Jem'hadar battleships/battlecruisers, so on and so forth. All 'gunships' to use the naval comparative.
Pets are fun...and I would say the Scimitar counts...ship loaded with fighters.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Fighters and frigates are used to keep your opponents shields Honest, in as such that there there to prvide an annoyance, by constantly draining your shield energy forcing you to put more power into them, and therfore drawing it away from other areas, the secondary threat comes from when you ignore said fighters and there damage and suddenly find your aft or top shields down and your being peppered with torps, yes I know phasers can swat them down but STO fighters are designed to be nimble enough to avoid phaser fire that isnt from PD Phaser banks, just look at the peregrins and jemy fighters in DS9, there good enough to make dints in cruisers while there attention is elsewhere i.e. trying to blat the cruiser that hammering them.
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
heheheh.. Could you guys imagine a carrier with two hangars of drones?? Every fight would be launch the drones ( four of them over a 30 second period ) cloak and go have dinner while the drones mop up the playing field.. Yes, they are that strong.
A gentleman called the scimitar an abomination. I say that a carrier outfitted with drones would be the greatest abomination this game has ever seen..
I would rather the Drones were exclusive to the Scimitars if they add a Romulan carrier. I'm afraid if players were able to get more than two per ship the devs would probably nerf them into the ground to compensate for their numbers. Better the drones are strong than having a swarm of weaklings , that's what fighters are for.
Plus it adds a little uniqueness to the Scimitars if they have an exclusive hanger pet like the other faction big ships.
Tbh I doubt we will get one, and I hope we dont, carriers dont realy fit with the romulans, they use stealth to attack there opponents, whilst a cloaked carrier would be funny, it would be OP to the max, if romulan players want a carrier then there are 3 available on the ex for various ammounts, as someone mentioned, you could pop fighters/drones, cloak and go have lunch.
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
Comments
That's a good point, and part of the reason behind using the carrier, on my example, mostly against lightly protected civilian targets: A carrier should be able to deal with militia/police ships while launching an all out attack against civilian targets across a relatively wide area, then recall everything and get out of dodge before military ships arrive.
I saw the stealth carrier as more of a harassment/terror asset. Say, the Federation does have hundreds of colony worlds a proper military ship may need days or weeks to reach. By that time the colonists are dead, the facilities are destroyed, and the carrier is on route to a completely different site. It's purpose would be to destroy morale, interrupt trade, and cause discontent: If the state does not send ships to protect those colonies, people will be pissed off. If the state does, the important targets will be less protected. At that it is far more effective than a normal warbird by virtue of being able to launch and coordinate strikes and raids across a large area. Against civilian targets you do not really need a great deal of focused firepower, smaller firepower over a large area is far more effective for harassment/terror tactics.
In a proper battle against enemy warships it would revert to the 'mobile staging area' idea: Fleet support, ECM, ECCM, coordination, etc.
That's something to keep in mind as well. Yet I believe drone ships would also be far cheaper than a proper runabout or fighter as they can be built as little more than an impulse engine, a big cannon, and a holodude. Or an impulse engine, a thalaron warhead, and a holodude with a cowboy hat.
The fact that Star Trek was never suposed to be militaristic Sci Fi?
Once you achieve FTL travel and the power sources needed for such conventional warfare is over. And when you are talking about species able to contain blackholes and antimatter as well...
but your point is still relevant even at the speeds of full impulse, which is supposed to be a considerable fraction of C...which is already enough kinetic energy to devastate small planets or moons...certainly starbases.
but then again, real physics (and all the consequences) hardly ever apply in star trek.
ps english is not my main laguage
Nope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive
It's been many years since I looked closely at the physics but from memory warp functions by stretching the ship - which you can see in the special effects when they jump into and out of warp. The theoretical limit of not being able to reach warp 10 is because that would mean stretching a ship to the point of being the size of the universe, i.e. everywhere at once.
I think the warp bubble regulates the stretching to both normalise space within the bubble and to stretch the ship in such a way that it gets to its destination. But I never did wrap my head around the how.
From Enterprise:
From the unaired pilot:
As we can see a ship traveling at warp can encounter space dust or meteors from regular space, and even radio waves which we know travel in the same space as objects not traveling at warp.
Now put your technobabble dictionaries and space warfare manifests aside and lets get back on topic about a Romulan Dedicated Carrier.
I personally believe that a Romulan Carrier will not possess a Romulan Battle Cloak (None of the other Carriers, even the 2 KDF ones, have a dedicated cloak), but will obviously have Singularity Powers.
I'm thinking...
3/3 weapons
3 Engineer
4(possibly 5) Science
3(possibly 2) Tactical
4 Device slots
Cmd Sci
LTC Eng
LTC Uni
Lt Tac
2 Hangars, comes equipped with Scorpions, can use Drones if you have a Scimitar variant (Drones Scimitar specific, like Stalkers are with Atrox?)
5/5.5 Turn, keeping it in line with most other Carriers.
1.275 Shield Mod
42,000 Hull
+10 Aux
+5 Engine
3000 Crew
Maybe some sort of special console or weapon, or both?
However, it could be one shot(ed) with any torpedo. (The Scimitar feature)
IF however the Romulan Republic got it's own carrier I'd imagine that's what our "Veteran Ship" will be when that gets made eventually.
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
If Romulans want to conquer a world they already have ample juggernauts to blast a world into submission but they really lack a covert force for strategic strikes on enemy bases. We've seen one side of the Romulans where they use massive power to overwhelm their enemies but we really haven't seen much of the other side of the coin. The deadly well placed blow to cut off the head of the snake so to speak that vanishes before the Romulan juggernauts need even be called in.
Hence we need a small low energy signature ship that can sneak behind enemies lines and strike hard then pull out quickly before the enemy forces can even react. I would suggest a fragile hulled craft with a trait that increased fighter range plus a long range bombardment. Add another hanger to increase damage plus a stealth bonus and you have a deadly illusive ship to spread fear among the enemies of the republic.
The scimitar is our battle blade in war but we need a dagger for the assassinations in the night.
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2013/07/xromvet001-resized.jpg.pagespeed.ic.29bjQmzTCO.jpg
Carrier pets?
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2013/07/xromulanvetshuttlejarok-resized.jpg.pagespeed.ic.20oJSBRBVl.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2013/07/xromulanvetshuttletalon-resized.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Gcoiv941tx.jpg
Judging by the windows and guesstimating decks, it's way too small to be a dedicated 2 hangar carrier.
Also going by the url "xromvet" it's the 1k Veteran ship like the Fed Chimera and KDF Peghqu' Heavy Destroyers. That section on top of the hull between the wings could be an animated part where a plasma or disruptor lotus emerge like the Peghqu' disruptor lotus.
Just a guesstimation.
You might be right looks about the size of Negh'Var to me could possibly be an escort carrier.
Strong probability it is but you never know might be available to everyone or for those who participated in the beta. To bad for me I missed that week.>.>
That would be cool pretty cool.
I'd also like it if they came out with more romulan/reman hangar ships.
It'd be nice to have some variants on some of the other KDF and FED hangers, like Romulan Privateers (Slavers with plasma beams/mines) or Romulan Kestrals (a variant of one of the runabouts/shuttles).
Completely agree although I still like the ship for what it is.
I remember back in the day, before DS9 threw in a couple fighters to make things look more exciting. When it made sense that there were no fighters in Star Trek because even a contemporary computer, armed with an energy weapon would never miss a small target.
Fighters actually don't make sense in Star Trek.
I know you can miss in this game, but realistically (and in canon for the most part) phasers rarely to never miss. Because of this, launching small ships would be a waste of resources, as the big ships that routinely have 20 or more phaser banks would just vaporize them.
Fighters were always a Star Wars thing ('cause blasters don't travel at the speed of light).
heheheh.. Could you guys imagine a carrier with two hangars of drones?? Every fight would be launch the drones ( four of them over a 30 second period ) cloak and go have dinner while the drones mop up the playing field.. Yes, they are that strong.
A gentleman called the scimitar an abomination. I say that a carrier outfitted with drones would be the greatest abomination this game has ever seen..
I run the drones in my scimitar right now. They make one heck of a difference. In PVP they really mess with people. I would love to have 2 hangers to launch more.
If you'd follow that theory, we wouldn't have fighters or small craft in any other science fiction series, weather it'd be BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond, StarCom or B5.
While not (or seldomly) seen in canon trek, fighters have been reappearing and been popular in non-canon, yet licensed Trek works as well. Weather it'd be the old Starfleet battles, novels or many of the newer ST video games (e.g. Invasion, SFC etc...)
Except BSG, Star Wars, Andromeda, Space: Above & Beyond and B5 (can't speak for StarCom) don't have speed-of-light weaponry.
Quite besides which, the point of fighters in (pseudo-)naval warfare is that they exploit the principle whereby a very small craft (fighter-bomber) can carry ordinance well capable of destroying a far larger (battleship) craft because destructive power far outstrips the defensive capabilities of armour. Star Trek quite specifically avoids this via the presence of energy Shields that render torpedos largely useless until they've been taken down or severely weakened by directed-energy weapons fire. A fighter lacks the huge power core and arsenal of a larger ship, and thus (based on evidence from the shows r.e. runabouts attacking anything bigger than a freighter) are unable to dent the shields, rendering any torpedo ordinance moot.
I don't really get the obsession with carriers in STO, to be honest. Not a single Federation, Klingon or Romulan carrier ever appeared on-screen (although fighters, dubiously, did and the Kazon used carriers), nor - as far as I recall - was one ever mentioned. I can buy that they exist, of course, but it's not in keeping with the source material for them to be so imposing. The Enterprises weren't carriers, they were battleships. The Neg'vhar, the Breen and Jem'hadar battleships/battlecruisers, so on and so forth. All 'gunships' to use the naval comparative.
Pets are fun...and I would say the Scimitar counts...ship loaded with fighters.
It had a shuttlebay. Big whoop.
Again - I don't really mind the carrier thing per se, I just wish they weren't so....endgame.
How many shuttlebays were that large much less carry that many fighters? The Scorpions were built for one obvious goal...attack.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091126025827/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d9/Scimitar_shuttlebay_1.jpg/640px-Scimitar_shuttlebay_1.jpg
Want to tell me that's just a simple shuttlebay? Show me a Enterprise with a shuttlebay of 20+ shuttles much less fighters!
I would rather the Drones were exclusive to the Scimitars if they add a Romulan carrier. I'm afraid if players were able to get more than two per ship the devs would probably nerf them into the ground to compensate for their numbers. Better the drones are strong than having a swarm of weaklings , that's what fighters are for.
Plus it adds a little uniqueness to the Scimitars if they have an exclusive hanger pet like the other faction big ships.