Sollvax is actually right. A quick jaunt over to Memory beta shows that there have been non-green orions for quite some time.
Personally, I prefer green Orions, because making them 'ruddy' just makes them yet another Trek species that we are supposed to buy as 'canon' despite being indistinguishable physically from humans. But fact of the matter is there is a precedent, and it's fairly easy to find with a quick google search.
And yet, through all this arguing he could have posted his proof, instead he stamped his feet and stuck his fingers in his ears screaming "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" every time someone asked him for some evidence.
Somehow, despite his correctness, it still seems Sollvax comes away from this the loser.
And yet, through all this arguing he could have posted his proof, instead he stamped his feet and stuck his fingers in his ears screaming "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" every time someone asked him for some evidence.
Somehow, despite his correctness, it still seems Sollvax comes away from this the loser.
Sollvax probably feels like he won. He can't produce evidence or argue effectively, but he probably feels like he won.
And yet, through all this arguing he could have posted his proof, instead he stamped his feet and stuck his fingers in his ears screaming "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" every time someone asked him for some evidence.
Somehow, despite his correctness, it still seems Sollvax comes away from this the loser.
coming from someone determined to claim 'victory' even after they have been proven 100% completely wrong? I don't think it's accurate or fair to label Sollvax as being childish here.
And really, if you all had taken the amount of time you had spent the amount on google that you had on jumping the gun with responses gleefully proclaiming victory-none of this would have even been an issue. Instead you declined an even cursory investigation of his claims.
Two pages of Sollvax bashing was not necessary. One minute on google was all that it would have taken.
In STO we have different skin and hair color options available for Orions no doubt as a nod to this old canon. This is why Sollvax is able to make non-green Orions like the one linked earlier. So even within STO the existence of Ruddy Orions is acknowledged, albeit in a non-direct easter-egg sort of way.
After the last live-action appearance of an Orion, in 1969's "Whom Gods Destroy", the next such appearance of the species was finally realized 35 years later, in 2004's "Borderland". The Orions appeared en masse with several actors portraying brutish male members of the species and model Bobbi Sue Luther starring as an Orion slave girl. Although The Animated Series' coloring difficulties had caused the Orions' appearances to remain true to Gene Roddenberry's original vision of the species as rarely having a green complexion, "Borderland" continued the ultimate Original Series depiction of the Orions as usually green-skinned. The look of the Orion males in the episode was extrapolated from the Orion females in The Original Series episodes.
The final draft of the episode's script features a different version of the scene from that used in the episode. In the scene as first conceived, the illusory Earth trader teases Pike by suggesting that, as former captain of the starship Enterprise, he used to send Earth "blistering reports," such as "'the Orion traders taking shocking advantage of the natives....'" Intentionally referring to Vina, the illusory space officer asks Pike, "Do any of you have a green one? They're dangerous, I hear." This version of the scene implies that writer and series creator Gene Roddenberry originally conceived the Orions to have more varied colors of skin than just green.
Captain Pike with the Orion girl who could appear as a blond - blue-eyed - white girl
actually she's a human that was shown as an Orion slave girl through illusion. don't cherry pick your information. In the full article, it says that Orions are typically green or blue skinned. this is canon, as you have been so fanatically defending. the odd coloring of the orions in The Animated Series, which also is non-canon according to CBS (originally at the behest of Gene Roddenberry), though i admit, it would be nice if TAS were canon; was due entirely to problems with coloring, Andorians were also affected, looking more grey than blue.
So just going by canon, which you have been defending and asking for allowances from Cryptic about, your Orion toon shouldn't even exist. Not only are there no Orions that are pale skinned and blonde haired/blue eyed, but your characters backstory of her being partially human and a descendant of Kirk is a fantasy, as there is no canonical reference to Orions and Humans being able to procreate.
you can thank your precious canon for that, i'm just the messenger. though a very satisfied messenger
KDF for Life! Romulan at Heart Fed cause they made me ~ :P
actually she's a human that was shown as an Orion slave girl through illusion. don't cherry pick your information. In the full article, it says that Orions are typically green or blue skinned. this is canon, as you have been so fanatically defending. the odd coloring of the orions in The Animated Series, which also is non-canon according to CBS (originally at the behest of Gene Roddenberry), though i admit, it would be nice if it were canon; was due entirely to problems with coloring, Andorians were also affected, looking more grey than blue.
So just going by canon, which you have been defending and asking for allowances from Cryptic about, your Orion toon shouldn't even exist. Not only are there no Orions that are pale skinned and blonde haired/blue eyed, but your characters backstory of her being partially human and a descendant of Kirk is a fantasy, as there is no canonical reference to Orions and Humans being able to procreate.
you can thank your precious canon for that, i'm just the messenger. though a very satisfied messenger
A messenger with very selective memory of canon, at that. There are precedents for non-green orions in both Memory alpha and memory beta.
newromulan1 quoted directly from an episode, where it is fairly obvious to extrapolate from the dialogue that there are more than just green orions.
"Do any of you have a green one? They're dangerous, I hear."
I won't be there packing heat. It will be a good shore leave. My Feds captains needs it. From battling the True Way, and helping New Romulas. My Romulan will love it too since she is still recovering from the brain washing Sela done to her. Just did that mission. As my KDF I doubt he will drop by. They don't like that kind of shore leave. They rather hang at bars.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
A messenger with very selective memory of canon, at that. There are precedents for non-green orions in both Memory alpha and memory beta.
newromulan1 quoted directly from an episode, where it is fairly obvious to extrapolate from the dialogue that there are more than just green orions.
"Do any of you have a green one? They're dangerous, I hear."
memory beta is for non-canon works, it says so in the website's tab. you can't seriously defend canon while using a non-canon source. and i'm not selective, i said that Orions come in different colors, specifically blue and green, as the article states. And like i said that episode, the one with captain pike and Vina, Vina was NOT an Orion, but a human survivor of a crashed spaceship that was made to look like an Orion slave girl using illusion.
KDF for Life! Romulan at Heart Fed cause they made me ~ :P
memory beta is for non-canon works, it says so in the website's tab. you can't seriously defend canon while using a non-canon source. and i'm not selective, i said that Orions come in different colors, specifically blue and green, as the article states. And like i said that episode, the one with captain pike and Vina, Vina was NOT an Orion, but a human survivor of a crashed spaceship that was made to look like an Orion slave girl using illusion.
99% of STO is non-canon if you go by that definition. The Vesta class is from a book series, for instance, and the term 'Rihannsu' comes from a book series as well. Not to mention STOs own original inventions. STO draws heavily from these ancillary sources, and it is blatantly obvious that it is on the same level of canon as them.
As for your 'blue orions', I suspect that they are a member of this 'non-canon' grouping as well, because I have never seen a blue orion on any episode of any of the various series.
At any rate. dialogue from canon sources has been provided that implies that there are other colors than green, and ancillary sources seem to support this, including STO itself, which includes options for players to make ruddy orions themselves, if they choose. I think that this pretty handily proves Sollvax's position.
99% of STO is non-canon if you go by that definition. The Vesta class is from a book series, for instance, and the term 'Rihannsu' comes from a book series as well. Not to mention STOs own original inventions. STO draws heavily from these ancillary sources, and it is blatantly obvious that it is on the same level of canon as them.
As for your 'blue orions', I suspect that they are a member of this 'non-canon' grouping as well, because I have never seen a blue orion on any episode of any of the various series.
At any rate. dialogue from canon sources has been provided that implies that there are other colors than green, and ancillary sources seem to support this, including STO itself, which includes options for players to make ruddy orions themselves, if they choose. I think that this pretty handily proves Sollvax's position.
i was never questioning sollvax, i was pointing out the absurdity of the OP's argument for canon in one instance where he feels it should be forced on everyone, when his own toon and backstory for her is non-canon.
but i can argue for one point of sollvax's position "green orions are considered a sub breed and are a minority"
there is no evidence of this, in either memory beta or memory alpha.
i am not arguing that there are different colored orions other than green, as that has been shown to be true, i contend that green orions are not the minority (meaning there are less of them). In fact if you want to go by memory beta then i give you this to disprove that particular point about green orions: "Uppermost were the nobility, the leaders of industry and trade, and starship captains (characterized by Ruddy Orions). Below them were the middle-class workers, the laborers, the soldiers and the slaves (mainly Green Orions), who comprised the vast majority of the population"
KDF for Life! Romulan at Heart Fed cause they made me ~ :P
Comments
Personally, I prefer green Orions, because making them 'ruddy' just makes them yet another Trek species that we are supposed to buy as 'canon' despite being indistinguishable physically from humans. But fact of the matter is there is a precedent, and it's fairly easy to find with a quick google search.
owe ya one
Somehow, despite his correctness, it still seems Sollvax comes away from this the loser.
Sollvax probably feels like he won. He can't produce evidence or argue effectively, but he probably feels like he won.
And really, if you all had taken the amount of time you had spent the amount on google that you had on jumping the gun with responses gleefully proclaiming victory-none of this would have even been an issue. Instead you declined an even cursory investigation of his claims.
Two pages of Sollvax bashing was not necessary. One minute on google was all that it would have taken.
In STO we have different skin and hair color options available for Orions no doubt as a nod to this old canon. This is why Sollvax is able to make non-green Orions like the one linked earlier. So even within STO the existence of Ruddy Orions is acknowledged, albeit in a non-direct easter-egg sort of way.
actually she's a human that was shown as an Orion slave girl through illusion. don't cherry pick your information. In the full article, it says that Orions are typically green or blue skinned. this is canon, as you have been so fanatically defending. the odd coloring of the orions in The Animated Series, which also is non-canon according to CBS (originally at the behest of Gene Roddenberry), though i admit, it would be nice if TAS were canon; was due entirely to problems with coloring, Andorians were also affected, looking more grey than blue.
So just going by canon, which you have been defending and asking for allowances from Cryptic about, your Orion toon shouldn't even exist. Not only are there no Orions that are pale skinned and blonde haired/blue eyed, but your characters backstory of her being partially human and a descendant of Kirk is a fantasy, as there is no canonical reference to Orions and Humans being able to procreate.
you can thank your precious canon for that, i'm just the messenger. though a very satisfied messenger
newromulan1 quoted directly from an episode, where it is fairly obvious to extrapolate from the dialogue that there are more than just green orions.
"Do any of you have a green one? They're dangerous, I hear."
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
memory beta is for non-canon works, it says so in the website's tab. you can't seriously defend canon while using a non-canon source. and i'm not selective, i said that Orions come in different colors, specifically blue and green, as the article states. And like i said that episode, the one with captain pike and Vina, Vina was NOT an Orion, but a human survivor of a crashed spaceship that was made to look like an Orion slave girl using illusion.
As for your 'blue orions', I suspect that they are a member of this 'non-canon' grouping as well, because I have never seen a blue orion on any episode of any of the various series.
At any rate. dialogue from canon sources has been provided that implies that there are other colors than green, and ancillary sources seem to support this, including STO itself, which includes options for players to make ruddy orions themselves, if they choose. I think that this pretty handily proves Sollvax's position.
It was to be only about DISABLING WEAPON VISUALS on Risa!!!
Anyways the following song says it all about Star Trek "canon"
warning contains course launguage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUx2C7Pn7ZE
it's called "U.S.S make *(TRIBBLE)* Up" by Voltaire
* word is not forum allowed
i was never questioning sollvax, i was pointing out the absurdity of the OP's argument for canon in one instance where he feels it should be forced on everyone, when his own toon and backstory for her is non-canon.
but i can argue for one point of sollvax's position "green orions are considered a sub breed and are a minority"
there is no evidence of this, in either memory beta or memory alpha.
i am not arguing that there are different colored orions other than green, as that has been shown to be true, i contend that green orions are not the minority (meaning there are less of them). In fact if you want to go by memory beta then i give you this to disprove that particular point about green orions: "Uppermost were the nobility, the leaders of industry and trade, and starship captains (characterized by Ruddy Orions). Below them were the middle-class workers, the laborers, the soldiers and the slaves (mainly Green Orions), who comprised the vast majority of the population"
If that's the case the girls on Risa will tell you to stay home.