Too easy to exploit. Mentioned this in another thread.
"The problem with that is that is too exploitable. Fleets will reduce the size to only a few players and the other fleet members would contribute their resources as necessary. If a fleet member needs something, then they would join and another would leave. So there would be large fleets that are small as far as the game is concerned. Until this issue is dealt with, then it is a bad idea. "
I would suggest a different idea. Fleet leaders can pick a ratio of speed to price. A very small fleet could choose to get a huge discount on their projects in terms of materials, in return for exp projects that take up to a week instead of a day to complete. Large fleets on the other hand could choose to get projects that are cheaper in terms of time, maybe running multiple exp projects per day, in return for ever higher prices.
The effect would be that large fleets still have an advantage for being large, while sinking even larger amounts of materials out of the economy than they already do. They'd get access things first, and they'd open more opportunities for their fleet members to get large amounts of fleet credits. Small fleets on the other hand would be able to tune their progression so it incentivizes steady play from their members, with projects completing about when they can reasonably expect their members to have gathered enough materials for another one, which is what a fleet progression system seems like it should do. And there would be no way to abuse this system to get a maxed fleet both super fast and super cheap.
The dilithium mine discount does nothing to make me, as a small fleet leader, happy at all. It is actively discouraging to me, and has many of my fleetmates already considering at least temporarily joining a larger fleet for the new consoles. The system I just outlined would work very well for us as far as I can tell.
I should disclaim that I'm not the originator of this idea, but it came to me by a chain of hearsay that makes it impossible for me to properly credit the brilliant man who first thought of it.
I suppose projects that cost half the resources of regular projects, but twice the duration could help. What Cryptic really needs to do is to drop the price of every single project to be more reasonable. 3.6 million dilithium for the Tier 5 Starbase project is a bit much. Also, the fact that running a Dilithium Mine requires dilithium to run. The Dilithium Mine should at least provide the amount of Dilithium to run itself. Obviously the Dilithium Mine is not what the devs promised for small fleets. The discount helps, but anyone that thinks that this is the extent of what the devs promised is mistaken since it is not enough. The devs must have something else planned that will help whether it be new more reasonable projects small fleets could do, a reduction in all fleet project requirements, or something else.
It kind of does help provide the dilithium to run itself in the form of Mining Doff assignments, daily mining missions, daily refining cap increase, the dilithium discount being applied to its own projects the fact the Dilithium mine itself doesn't cost dilithium, only its subtract projects.
I think you have to count it all together not just the project discount.
It kind of does help provide the dilithium to run itself in the form of Mining Doff assignments, daily mining missions, daily refining cap increase, the dilithium discount being applied to its own projects the fact the Dilithium mine itself doesn't cost dilithium, only its subtract projects.
I think you have to count it all together not just the project discount.
Actually the Dilithium mine does require dilithium for some projects. You also failed to mention that why there is a mission to increase the dil cap, it is only via a repeatable mission and only 500 dil a day which is nothing.
Actually the Dilithium mine does require dilithium for some projects. You also failed to mention that why there is a mission to increase the dil cap, it is only via a repeatable mission and only 500 dil a day which is nothing.
This costs more than it discounts
I thought the cap increase was a permanent unlock for each character and not a daily mission. Just like how you can purchase 3 Duty Officer Assignment slots from the Embassy.
It kind of does help provide the dilithium to run itself in the form of Mining Doff assignments, daily mining missions, daily refining cap increase, the dilithium discount being applied to its own projects the fact the Dilithium mine itself doesn't cost dilithium, only its subtract projects.
I think you have to count it all together not just the project discount.
First of all, see Voicedark's post above mine.
Second of all, please understand, with a handful of steadily active members since the fleet progression system went live, my fleet has achieved tier two in the starbase and almost completed the first tier of the embassy. For fleets like mine, the resources needed to get even to the first tier of the dil mine is a huge task, and for very small relief. For large fleets, they'll have the mine completed as fast as the project timings allow.
For fleets like mine, the resources needed to get even to the first tier of the dil mine is a huge task, and for very small relief.
This is why I've been trying to convince people (and Cryptic) that the design of the discounts is bad, that the discounts need to be front-loaded so that you get the biggest impact at tier I.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
This is why I've been trying to convince people (and Cryptic) that the design of the discounts is bad, that the discounts need to be front-loaded so that you get the biggest impact at tier I.
Yeah. If the discount was... 25%->35%->40%, perhaps... well, big fleets would STILL have the leg up, but it'd be less insulting anyway. I still think the system I outline a few posts up is the best thing I can think of for the progression system, but I don't have much hope for that happening honestly.
"1) Once you join a fleet, you can't join the same fleet for a week if you leave.
2) After joining a fleet once, if you leave and rejoin again, the next time you leave you are forbidden from joining the fleet a third time.
This is a terrible idea, and here's why: People like me in small fleets have to temporarily leave our fleets whenever we want to go shopping for high-tier items. There's many fleets out there who will gladly let us get gear in exchange for us putting a few million in their fleet bank. If you suggestion was implemented, my members would get locked out of my fleet because they wanted to go get the gear they need to compete!
Zinc: The universe of Star Trek Online is shaped and changed by the actions of the players...expect to see new planets and races discovered that were unknown the last time you logged in."
Too easy to exploit. Mentioned this in another thread.
"The problem with that is that is too exploitable. Fleets will reduce the size to only a few players and the other fleet members would contribute their resources as necessary. If a fleet member needs something, then they would join and another would leave. So there would be large fleets that are small as far as the game is concerned. Until this issue is dealt with, then it is a bad idea. "
Easy fix
All fleet items are not usable unless you are in a fleet of the correct tier for that item.
yes that is harsh i know but it would solve any eploit for a fleet staying small.
Easy fix
All fleet items are not usable unless you are in a fleet of the correct tier for that item.
yes that is harsh i know but it would solve any eploit for a fleet staying small.
I dont think that's worth it, honestly. I would rather have a sure access to my already earned fleet items, then a scaling resource input for smaller fleets.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
The easy solution is people giving up this communist mumbo-jumbo about making all fleets equal when they very clearly are not.
An even easier solution would be for you to stop setting up straw-men to shoot down. No one is asking for equality, small fleets are just asking for less inequality. Which DStahl promised to deliver, your complaints notwithstanding.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The easy solution is people giving up this communist mumbo-jumbo about making all fleets equal when they very clearly are not.
Its a game, not a job, it should be fun.
If they made fleet holding advancement cheap and the provision projects very pricey then everyone can have a good starbase and the larger fleets, while breezing though the starbase at uber light speed, would not get the real rewards without bleeding through the nose for the provisions for all its members.
The current way was a little lacking on concept in implementation. In disclosure I am in a +250 member fleet, but I don't like seeing those that are in smaller fleets and enjoy that atmosphere suffering.
It isn't about equality or any mumbo jumbo as you put it, it is about a game being a freaking game that is FUN, not tedious.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
The easy solution is people giving up this communist mumbo-jumbo about making all fleets equal when they very clearly are not.
Star Trek depicts the Federation as an idealized communist society. Your avatar seems to have the wrong lobes....:rolleyes:
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I keep looking at the info out on it and just can't make the connection to what it will do for small fleets. Any info or explanation on this would be great. Thanks
Comments
I would suggest a different idea. Fleet leaders can pick a ratio of speed to price. A very small fleet could choose to get a huge discount on their projects in terms of materials, in return for exp projects that take up to a week instead of a day to complete. Large fleets on the other hand could choose to get projects that are cheaper in terms of time, maybe running multiple exp projects per day, in return for ever higher prices.
The effect would be that large fleets still have an advantage for being large, while sinking even larger amounts of materials out of the economy than they already do. They'd get access things first, and they'd open more opportunities for their fleet members to get large amounts of fleet credits. Small fleets on the other hand would be able to tune their progression so it incentivizes steady play from their members, with projects completing about when they can reasonably expect their members to have gathered enough materials for another one, which is what a fleet progression system seems like it should do. And there would be no way to abuse this system to get a maxed fleet both super fast and super cheap.
The dilithium mine discount does nothing to make me, as a small fleet leader, happy at all. It is actively discouraging to me, and has many of my fleetmates already considering at least temporarily joining a larger fleet for the new consoles. The system I just outlined would work very well for us as far as I can tell.
I should disclaim that I'm not the originator of this idea, but it came to me by a chain of hearsay that makes it impossible for me to properly credit the brilliant man who first thought of it.
It kind of does help provide the dilithium to run itself in the form of Mining Doff assignments, daily mining missions, daily refining cap increase, the dilithium discount being applied to its own projects the fact the Dilithium mine itself doesn't cost dilithium, only its subtract projects.
I think you have to count it all together not just the project discount.
Actually the Dilithium mine does require dilithium for some projects. You also failed to mention that why there is a mission to increase the dil cap, it is only via a repeatable mission and only 500 dil a day which is nothing.
This costs more than it discounts
I thought the cap increase was a permanent unlock for each character and not a daily mission. Just like how you can purchase 3 Duty Officer Assignment slots from the Embassy.
Second of all, please understand, with a handful of steadily active members since the fleet progression system went live, my fleet has achieved tier two in the starbase and almost completed the first tier of the embassy. For fleets like mine, the resources needed to get even to the first tier of the dil mine is a huge task, and for very small relief. For large fleets, they'll have the mine completed as fast as the project timings allow.
This is why I've been trying to convince people (and Cryptic) that the design of the discounts is bad, that the discounts need to be front-loaded so that you get the biggest impact at tier I.
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4418/w0de.jpg
looking at this my small fleet is ready to be scrapped
DELTA PRICE RISING
Yeah. If the discount was... 25%->35%->40%, perhaps... well, big fleets would STILL have the leg up, but it'd be less insulting anyway. I still think the system I outline a few posts up is the best thing I can think of for the progression system, but I don't have much hope for that happening honestly.
Easy fix
All fleet items are not usable unless you are in a fleet of the correct tier for that item.
yes that is harsh i know but it would solve any eploit for a fleet staying small.
- Lewis Burwell "chesty" Puller
How Romulans Should Choose What Faction They Are In
I dont think that's worth it, honestly. I would rather have a sure access to my already earned fleet items, then a scaling resource input for smaller fleets.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
An even easier solution would be for you to stop setting up straw-men to shoot down. No one is asking for equality, small fleets are just asking for less inequality. Which DStahl promised to deliver, your complaints notwithstanding.
This isn't the 1950's and McCarthy like red baiting is childish and equality isn't a swear word.
Honestly I find people like you having an interest in star trek baffling.
Its a game, not a job, it should be fun.
If they made fleet holding advancement cheap and the provision projects very pricey then everyone can have a good starbase and the larger fleets, while breezing though the starbase at uber light speed, would not get the real rewards without bleeding through the nose for the provisions for all its members.
The current way was a little lacking on concept in implementation. In disclosure I am in a +250 member fleet, but I don't like seeing those that are in smaller fleets and enjoy that atmosphere suffering.
It isn't about equality or any mumbo jumbo as you put it, it is about a game being a freaking game that is FUN, not tedious.
Check out suaveks post!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11523241&postcount=31
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
So you mean that if some fleet leader goes nuts and kicks everyone all the rewards they have earned become unusable? Any other bright ideas?
Star Trek depicts the Federation as an idealized communist society. Your avatar seems to have the wrong lobes....:rolleyes:
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/priority-one-episode-132-dilithium-mine-shafted/
Approx 22:00 mark.
Dilithium mine helps small fleets because they say it does.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah