Actually, it's horrible when the whole things was supposed to help small fleets progress, and it takes 3.4 times the resources (8.5M dilitihium vs 2.5M dilithium based on the 'comparable to embassy. comment) to build the mine than you could ever save, even if you haven't spent anything on the Starbase and Embassy yet.
Oh, and as to the idea that you'll save on future holdings down the road? Well, for one, "down the road" could be years away... or never. For another, assuming that future holdings are also comparable to the embassy, it would take another 7.8 holdings to just break even.
Face it. If these are the final numbers, Cryptic just screwed the small fleets. Again.
While I completely agree with your premise (that this hurts and doesn't help), my math based on the available data (data which I cannot speak to the veracity of, especially since the full Tier upgrades are listed without a dilithium cost, which strikes me as very odd) the dilith cost comes out to about 4.35 million required (no optional projects included).
You're still looking at effectively needing a whole second starbase just to break even.
As for costs from what I noticed they seemed to be identical to the embassy costs except for the main track upgrade which did not have a dil cost (T1 upgrade atleast) but did have a massive mining provision cost, or fleet credit cost.
A fleet credit sink when fleet credits are one of the most sought after currencies? That would be.... totally expected of Cryptic actually. LoL!
Its like they forget the forest for the trees sometimes. Ah well, its not like we don't want those RCS consoles and warp cores I guess.
Thanks for the info. I'll leave this to better theory crafters than I to sort out if this is actually good or not, but I have to ask, did you get to see the actual mine?
Also, I have to wonder if you can stack all of the various mining missions currently in game with these new ones, without overlaping cooldowns. If you could, and if some of these things live up to their name, then I think it might be very doable to get all of your dilithium just from mining.
One thing that has not been mentioned by others in this tread that really popped for me....
RICH DILITHIUM MINING DAILY
This could be sweet beyond measure. If it works like the Dilithium Mining Claim from a previous lockbox, it means for those of you who did not get one.....
5000 DILITHIUM ORE IN ABOUT A MINUTE
The long term return on investment of this new holding may very well make it a must have item. Fleet members can quickly reach their daily refine capacity; and move on to other interests.
And to sweeten the pot, those shiny new fleet equipment items will be 9% cheaper.
What's not to love.... unless it gets screwed up....
You really think Cryptic is going to let everyone get 5000 dilithium/minute? Seriously?
Even if it does work like you hope, it'll probably require fleet provisions for a net loss in resources/time. Because that's how Cryptic rolls, these days.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Actually, it's horrible when the whole things was supposed to help small fleets progress, and it takes 3.4 times the resources (8.5M dilitihium vs 2.5M dilithium based on the 'comparable to embassy. comment) to build the mine than you could ever save, even if you haven't spent anything on the Starbase and Embassy yet.
Oh, and as to the idea that you'll save on future holdings down the road? Well, for one, "down the road" could be years away... or never. For another, assuming that future holdings are also comparable to the embassy, it would take another 7.8 holdings to just break even.
Face it. If these are the final numbers, Cryptic just screwed the small fleets. Again.
Yeah I'm really disappointed with these numbers. 9% total reduction is worthless. As is pointed out, you have pay more to get the discount than you can ever hope of recouping.
For T4 projects, its 960 Fleet marks. That's a lot of grinding for a small fleet. A 3% savings is ~29 fleet marks. That doesn't even save you running on entire mission. At 9% it saves you 87, so you have to run maybe 2 less missions.
It needs to be more like 9% per project for a 27% savings to be even close to meaningful. Make the reduction worth something other wise all that talk about something coming to help small fleets was just meaningless BS. Sure, this "helps". It's like seeing someone overloaded with bags of groceries. You offer to help by taking an apple off the top of one of the bags.
Now, the new features from the holding, such as warp cores and engineering consoles are nice. Worth building in order to acquire (any idea on what the special ability of the consoles are, like the science ones have?).
yeah. the problem is, that this way sci is screwed again
Yeah, those Embassy Sci consoles did nothing for Sci player builds, and Sci should be the only class that gets a huge boost from specific class designed Fleet consoles.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You really think Cryptic is going to let everyone get 5000 dilithium/minute? Seriously?
Even if it does work like you hope, it'll probably require fleet provisions for a net loss in resources/time. Because that's how Cryptic rolls, these days.
It is a long term investment. If you don't intend to play the game for the foreseeable future, then it may well be a net loss (obviously the larger the fleet, the sooner the returns).
Remember that Dilithium is a time based currency; so the available reduction of your time in game is what this holding is for.
With the time you save, you can run more alts on your account, and have more refined dilithium every day.
You really think Cryptic is going to let everyone get 5000 dilithium/minute? Seriously?
Even if it does work like you hope, it'll probably require fleet provisions for a net loss in resources/time. Because that's how Cryptic rolls, these days.
Currently with the lockbox mission tokens, once every 20 hrs you can do the Rich Dil mining mission which takes a minute or 3 and earns you 5k dil ore.
So yes, I do think Cryptic will allow every fleet member to do this mission daily as it will help them gain Dil faster for both projects and gear.
Please keep in mind that this mission is just to obtain dilithium ORE. You still have to refine it and are normally capped at refining 8000 dil per day.
Back to the main topic - I do think this is going to put a damper initially on small fleet starbase progression because they will have to put their limited resources into leveling this holding in order to reap the benefits for their SB and Embassy projects.
So yes, I do think Cryptic will allow every fleet member to do this mission daily as it will help them gain Dil faster for both projects and gear.
That is incredibly ... optimistic. Cryptic has said quite often that their target earn rate is 480/15 minutes of gameplay. I don't see any way that they're going to allow a completely repeatable way of gaining 300k/hour.
The lockbox items are a special case - because you actually pay for those with keys.
I'm sure that there's going to be *some* mechanism for paying for the mining daily.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
That is incredibly ... optimistic. Cryptic has said quite often that their target earn rate is 480/15 minutes of gameplay. I don't see any way that they're going to allow a completely repeatable way of gaining 300k/hour.
The lockbox items are a special case - because you actually pay for those with keys.
I'm sure that there's going to be *some* mechanism for paying for the mining daily.
It looks to me like the dilithium mining thing will be a DOff thing.
Well that's a good thing. Everyone has more Doffs than what they can do with now since mail is locked up and they haven't increased the Z-Store unlock over 400. Hopefully the system will require/option for the use of greens and blues because they can't be plugged directly into starbases since they were switched to whites only.
Comments
While I completely agree with your premise (that this hurts and doesn't help), my math based on the available data (data which I cannot speak to the veracity of, especially since the full Tier upgrades are listed without a dilithium cost, which strikes me as very odd) the dilith cost comes out to about 4.35 million required (no optional projects included).
You're still looking at effectively needing a whole second starbase just to break even.
A fleet credit sink when fleet credits are one of the most sought after currencies? That would be.... totally expected of Cryptic actually. LoL!
Its like they forget the forest for the trees sometimes. Ah well, its not like we don't want those RCS consoles and warp cores I guess.
This is welcome news indeed.
Also, I have to wonder if you can stack all of the various mining missions currently in game with these new ones, without overlaping cooldowns. If you could, and if some of these things live up to their name, then I think it might be very doable to get all of your dilithium just from mining.
Nouveau riche LTS member
@DevolvedOne
RICH DILITHIUM MINING DAILY
This could be sweet beyond measure. If it works like the Dilithium Mining Claim from a previous lockbox, it means for those of you who did not get one.....
5000 DILITHIUM ORE IN ABOUT A MINUTE
The long term return on investment of this new holding may very well make it a must have item. Fleet members can quickly reach their daily refine capacity; and move on to other interests.
And to sweeten the pot, those shiny new fleet equipment items will be 9% cheaper.
What's not to love.... unless it gets screwed up....
You really think Cryptic is going to let everyone get 5000 dilithium/minute? Seriously?
Even if it does work like you hope, it'll probably require fleet provisions for a net loss in resources/time. Because that's how Cryptic rolls, these days.
Yeah I'm really disappointed with these numbers. 9% total reduction is worthless. As is pointed out, you have pay more to get the discount than you can ever hope of recouping.
For T4 projects, its 960 Fleet marks. That's a lot of grinding for a small fleet. A 3% savings is ~29 fleet marks. That doesn't even save you running on entire mission. At 9% it saves you 87, so you have to run maybe 2 less missions.
It needs to be more like 9% per project for a 27% savings to be even close to meaningful. Make the reduction worth something other wise all that talk about something coming to help small fleets was just meaningless BS. Sure, this "helps". It's like seeing someone overloaded with bags of groceries. You offer to help by taking an apple off the top of one of the bags.
Now, the new features from the holding, such as warp cores and engineering consoles are nice. Worth building in order to acquire (any idea on what the special ability of the consoles are, like the science ones have?).
...that is a dilithium sink in itself!
Yeah, those Embassy Sci consoles did nothing for Sci player builds, and Sci should be the only class that gets a huge boost from specific class designed Fleet consoles.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It is a long term investment. If you don't intend to play the game for the foreseeable future, then it may well be a net loss (obviously the larger the fleet, the sooner the returns).
Remember that Dilithium is a time based currency; so the available reduction of your time in game is what this holding is for.
With the time you save, you can run more alts on your account, and have more refined dilithium every day.
And yes, I do hope...
Currently with the lockbox mission tokens, once every 20 hrs you can do the Rich Dil mining mission which takes a minute or 3 and earns you 5k dil ore.
So yes, I do think Cryptic will allow every fleet member to do this mission daily as it will help them gain Dil faster for both projects and gear.
Please keep in mind that this mission is just to obtain dilithium ORE. You still have to refine it and are normally capped at refining 8000 dil per day.
Back to the main topic - I do think this is going to put a damper initially on small fleet starbase progression because they will have to put their limited resources into leveling this holding in order to reap the benefits for their SB and Embassy projects.
That is incredibly ... optimistic. Cryptic has said quite often that their target earn rate is 480/15 minutes of gameplay. I don't see any way that they're going to allow a completely repeatable way of gaining 300k/hour.
The lockbox items are a special case - because you actually pay for those with keys.
I'm sure that there's going to be *some* mechanism for paying for the mining daily.
Well, it is a daily, or rather every 20 hours.
:rolleyes:
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Well that's a good thing. Everyone has more Doffs than what they can do with now since mail is locked up and they haven't increased the Z-Store unlock over 400. Hopefully the system will require/option for the use of greens and blues because they can't be plugged directly into starbases since they were switched to whites only.