I have the non-fleet HEC and have been doing a ton...ie...TON of reading. I'm good in most PVE's, and normal STF's. Daily's, missions, and events are easy. PVP is challenging, but I can still hold my own for the most part (much more advanced and seasoned players out there than I am).
Education goes a long, long way in this game. I've respec'd twice to get a good build going for my HEC, and found I was using BOFF powers completely wrong and was getting wrecked because of it. A quick changeout of BOFF skills, a little power setting change here and there as I was doing that wrong too, and from recommendations, forms, and some PVP'ers who were handing me my head on a platter, I now have much more survivability than I used to.
ADVICE: When in a PVE or PVP and you see someone with no issues and your having them....ASK. I've found STO'ers are awesome at helping the beginner and the little guy.
Live long and prosper....to prosper......ask for help.
My next learning cycle is on key binding. 1 power per key? or 1 key muyltiple powers? any advice is awesome.
That's all I need to see to know that in ANY ship, you aren't doing it right. Like the entire game. Who dies in Azure? Seriously, a Miranda could survive it.
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Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
How are you EVEN DYING to the tholians PERIOD?! I have a tac Romulan and a tac KDF I play alot... the KDF is in a cruiser but the Romulan is in a Fleet Dhelan Retrofit.... not a bulky ship by any means... and they can't even drop my shields with a full D'deridex guard... AND I can take out a full D'deridex guard group in under 10 seconds Crits allowing.... so HOW are you dying to them, I just can't see a build being THAT squishy... specially if you're using "elite" gear as you've stated.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
On Paper, the JHAS has way more fire power and much better survival than the FHEC.
5 Tac Consoles vs 4... 125 is a bigger number than 100 (Assuming 25% increase to weapons per console, Blue XI's are worth 26.x)
Com & Lt.Com are 7 Tac powers so are Com, Lt & Ens. But the higher ranks of the former and the near useless of a 3rd ensign power give it the JHAS again.
How could anybody say on paper these ships have the same power?
Oh and 700 extra HP for the Hull, my Beam Boat cruiser with full power to shields does on average 700dps per a beam volley.
So that's a single extra hit with a beam when your shields are down to kill a FHEC.
What I think the main problem here is he just moved his JHAS into the FHEC and assumed it would be the same.
Also Tac Team has an issue where it seems to target high yield Plasma torpedoes or Fighter craft that are extremely close to your ship. So he's not getting the tac team buff at all.
Oh and anybody who plays this game with a park and shoot mentality is doing it wrong. The Bug is considered OP by almost everyone and in the hands of some players it's an indestructible nightmare.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
So I got myself a fleet Armitage and replaced it with my bug ship, I loaded out the fleet Armitage with all the gear my bug ship had,
Now the bug ship has a hull rating of 34,500 and a crew of 50
Fleet armitage 35,200 crew of 200.
So with the hull and crew increase you would have thought the armitage would have better survive ability.
NO IT DOESN'T.
in fact it's worse a lot worse.
In my bug ship I can sit still in Azura nebula and pick off a group of Tholians holding a D'deredix ship with no real problems. Hull will go Down to about 70%
Tried the same thing in the armitage and I died twice.
I'm constantly having to look at my ship status and repairing the hull and shields while I find myself screaming at the monitor telling my bridge officer healing abilities to hurry up and recharge.
Its so frustrating that such a good ship with supposedly better stats for taking damage is so bad.
So I'm going back to my bug ship, lighter, better dps, better survive ability but will miss torpedo point defence.
Rant over
Rant begin!
How in the world anyone can die in a ship that can keep EPtS !!3!! active the vast majority of the time with doffs along with an EPtE and/or EPtA while still packing two TTs, an HE, and the options of a PH/TSS or RSP/Aux2Strut when fighting Tholians in Azure Nebula, aka the bore you to death absolutely no actual threat NPCs just blows my mind.
Rant escalate!
Now I understand it is actually because Cryptic puts in various systems and mechanics (crew) that have been broken for years, as in don't do jack in actual gameplay, then even release all kinds of new toys for them (doffs/sets/etc) solely for the purpose of trapping the unaware into traps of suboptimal setups because the actual documentation for the game is absolutely awful.
The FHEC has a lower shield mod than the JHAS, and in this game, shields are everything. Therefore, even with the same console types slotted, the JHAS would survive longer because 1% more shield hp and regen amplified by power level outdoes whatever you can squeeze out from that extra HP with your captain's SIF stat.
EptS 3 and RSP 1 do waaaay more for shield tanking than a minuscule shield mod increase.
How in the world anyone can die in a ship that can keep EPtS !!3!! active the vast majority of the time with doffs along with an EPtE and/or EPtA while still packing two TTs, an HE, and the options of a PH/TSS or RSP/Aux2Strut when fighting Tholians in Azure Nebula, aka the bore you to death absolutely no actual threat NPCs just blows my mind.
He admitted on pages 2 and 3 that he wasn't actually doing anything to defend himself, he thought he should be able to survive just sitting stationary with no abilities active. Page 4 is also memorable, and then on page 5 people started trying to help fix his disaster of a build and he vanished. It's almost worth reading the whole thing just for the lulz.
And that's a real pity, because the canon version, seen in various episodes of DS9, was really nothing very special at all.
In fact, I would argue that it was so 'average' that one had to kamikazee the USS Odyssey to destroy it during Starfleet's initial encounter.
Well, actually, the things were pretty effective the first time the Federation ever engages them. . .perhaps it was numbers, I dunno. The Federation wasn't able to do a whole lot against them, despite their best efforts. Then, suddenly, the Defiant is on the scene and it's a friggin supership that's shredding just about everything with 1-2 volleys from it's uber-strong weapons. Then, of course, as the Dominion War went on the rest of the Federation ships apparently became able to shred Attack Ships with 1-2 hits from their phaser banks.
They removed all shields from combat and turned everything into an explosion-fest to make things look more epic. Trying to judge what's actually 'powerful' and 'effective' from the TV shows is pretty pointless.
EDIT: Also, they kamikazee'd the Galaxy class ship in order to keep it from escaping back through the wormhole. It was the quickest way to do it. The Galaxy-class ship was losing the fight quickly, and wasn't able to make headway against the Attack Ships.
The first time the Federation faced Jem'Hadar Attack Ships - their shields were useless against them. Without modifications to Federation shields - which weren't made until sometime around Starship Down - Federation ships couldn't block phased polarons anywhere in their spectrum. Captain Keogh even says that shields are useless against them, and orders shield power transferred to weapons.
Could Odyssey have survived if it would have kept her shields up to actually blunt the kamikaze attack? Who knows, but the case may be, in the first encounter - even during the Defiant's first encounter with the Jem'Hadar, shields were pretty much useless.
Sometime after - Starfleet learned to adapt their shields to polaron weapons and the bugship went from absolutely deadly to mostly annoying. /shrug.
As to the point of this thread - you really, REALLY can't fly a Jem Attacker and an Armitage the same way. It's like comparing the Excelsior with the standard assault cruiser. They're both cruisers, but you play them very differently.
Not on paper. On paper both ships have the same dps rating.
Besides my test neither ship was firing just taking damage and the armitage was the first to fall.
If your looking at the specs on paper and decide to buy the ships because of those stats then the ship should be true to those stats.
You know that "on paper" the bug ship has better shields, right? Between the two you are probably trading ~100 shields for ~800 hull.
Shields > Hull.
Also, I have to say, your test sounds very stupid and subjective, and if you're getting blown up in Azure that is totally your own fault, in any ship.
The Armitage is quite an adversary when used proper. It`s more a hit and run ship so sitting still is killing as the OP noticed. For me the best use of the Armitage is with the scorpion fighters. Go in with blazing (incl. quad phaser front and Cannon: Scatter Volley) cannons, use scramble sensors, fire the the torps in spread and with the Console - Universal - Torpedo Point Defense System and fire phasers from the Console - Point Defense System, pass by and kill reaming ships with a breen cluster torp. Disable the tractors and by the team your ready and underway to the next target, the cooldown is done. For me it works admirably and never got killed in Azure.
The Armitage is quite an adversary when used proper. It`s more a hit and run ship so sitting still is killing as the OP noticed. For me the best use of the Armitage is with the scorpion fighters. Go in with blazing (incl. quad phaser front and Cannon: Scatter Volley) cannons, use scramble sensors and gravity well to "glue" the Tholians together, fire the the torps in spread and with the Console - Universal - Torpedo Point Defense System and fire phasers from the Console - Point Defense System, pass by and kill reaming ships with a breen cluster torp. Disable the tractors and by the team your ready and underway to the next target, the cooldown is done. For me it works admirably and never got killed in Azure.
Gravity Well 1 is a Lt.Com ability, how do you get Gravity Well on the Armitage?
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Comments
Education goes a long, long way in this game. I've respec'd twice to get a good build going for my HEC, and found I was using BOFF powers completely wrong and was getting wrecked because of it. A quick changeout of BOFF skills, a little power setting change here and there as I was doing that wrong too, and from recommendations, forms, and some PVP'ers who were handing me my head on a platter, I now have much more survivability than I used to.
ADVICE: When in a PVE or PVP and you see someone with no issues and your having them....ASK. I've found STO'ers are awesome at helping the beginner and the little guy.
Live long and prosper....to prosper......ask for help.
My next learning cycle is on key binding. 1 power per key? or 1 key muyltiple powers? any advice is awesome.
lol.
That's all I need to see to know that in ANY ship, you aren't doing it right. Like the entire game. Who dies in Azure? Seriously, a Miranda could survive it.
Pay no attention to the dates and titles under my name at the left! I am a Career Officer, Lifetime Sub since launch, was in the Beta. Having problems with my forum account.
Anyways, this thread has given me some hope in regards to this game.
5 Tac Consoles vs 4... 125 is a bigger number than 100 (Assuming 25% increase to weapons per console, Blue XI's are worth 26.x)
Com & Lt.Com are 7 Tac powers so are Com, Lt & Ens. But the higher ranks of the former and the near useless of a 3rd ensign power give it the JHAS again.
How could anybody say on paper these ships have the same power?
Oh and 700 extra HP for the Hull, my Beam Boat cruiser with full power to shields does on average 700dps per a beam volley.
So that's a single extra hit with a beam when your shields are down to kill a FHEC.
What I think the main problem here is he just moved his JHAS into the FHEC and assumed it would be the same.
Also Tac Team has an issue where it seems to target high yield Plasma torpedoes or Fighter craft that are extremely close to your ship. So he's not getting the tac team buff at all.
Oh and anybody who plays this game with a park and shoot mentality is doing it wrong. The Bug is considered OP by almost everyone and in the hands of some players it's an indestructible nightmare.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
As for Reyans comment, yeah, that's true. The bug in canon was like the NPC bugs. A good ship, but best used in large numbers.
Rant begin!
How in the world anyone can die in a ship that can keep EPtS !!3!! active the vast majority of the time with doffs along with an EPtE and/or EPtA while still packing two TTs, an HE, and the options of a PH/TSS or RSP/Aux2Strut when fighting Tholians in Azure Nebula, aka the bore you to death absolutely no actual threat NPCs just blows my mind.
Rant escalate!
Now I understand it is actually because Cryptic puts in various systems and mechanics (crew) that have been broken for years, as in don't do jack in actual gameplay, then even release all kinds of new toys for them (doffs/sets/etc) solely for the purpose of trapping the unaware into traps of suboptimal setups because the actual documentation for the game is absolutely awful.
Rant over
EptS 3 and RSP 1 do waaaay more for shield tanking than a minuscule shield mod increase.
He admitted on pages 2 and 3 that he wasn't actually doing anything to defend himself, he thought he should be able to survive just sitting stationary with no abilities active. Page 4 is also memorable, and then on page 5 people started trying to help fix his disaster of a build and he vanished. It's almost worth reading the whole thing just for the lulz.
Well, actually, the things were pretty effective the first time the Federation ever engages them. . .perhaps it was numbers, I dunno. The Federation wasn't able to do a whole lot against them, despite their best efforts. Then, suddenly, the Defiant is on the scene and it's a friggin supership that's shredding just about everything with 1-2 volleys from it's uber-strong weapons. Then, of course, as the Dominion War went on the rest of the Federation ships apparently became able to shred Attack Ships with 1-2 hits from their phaser banks.
They removed all shields from combat and turned everything into an explosion-fest to make things look more epic. Trying to judge what's actually 'powerful' and 'effective' from the TV shows is pretty pointless.
EDIT: Also, they kamikazee'd the Galaxy class ship in order to keep it from escaping back through the wormhole. It was the quickest way to do it. The Galaxy-class ship was losing the fight quickly, and wasn't able to make headway against the Attack Ships.
Could Odyssey have survived if it would have kept her shields up to actually blunt the kamikaze attack? Who knows, but the case may be, in the first encounter - even during the Defiant's first encounter with the Jem'Hadar, shields were pretty much useless.
Sometime after - Starfleet learned to adapt their shields to polaron weapons and the bugship went from absolutely deadly to mostly annoying. /shrug.
As to the point of this thread - you really, REALLY can't fly a Jem Attacker and an Armitage the same way. It's like comparing the Excelsior with the standard assault cruiser. They're both cruisers, but you play them very differently.
You know that "on paper" the bug ship has better shields, right? Between the two you are probably trading ~100 shields for ~800 hull.
Shields > Hull.
Also, I have to say, your test sounds very stupid and subjective, and if you're getting blown up in Azure that is totally your own fault, in any ship.
You realize the OP said he was literally sitting there doing nothing, though.
In the end.... we`re all Ferengi!
Gravity Well 1 is a Lt.Com ability, how do you get Gravity Well on the Armitage?
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
True, my bad.... Flying a sci for to long... only use scramble sensors on the armitage.. Thanks for the notice!
In the end.... we`re all Ferengi!