It's not a bug if it's intentional, and it's kinda hard to imagine dropping the duration by more than half AND noticeably reducing its health was purely accidental.
I'm not really sure what "running alot wrong" means, but I'd definitely say those changes are pretty significant.
Show me the patch note where cryptic says they make any change on the Aceton Assimilator Basic functions?
and if he stays 300 sec or 180 sec i never try and ist not importend for me, he is most times bevor this time runs out dead.
but now he is dead in <6sec if he get some hits, i have never seen this TRIBBLE what is now running!!!!!
i have used him last 11 months every day and now he is definitivly not more working, so i call it a gamebug.
i hate it to see every week other gameparts buged.:mad:
* Nothing was changed intentionally.
* I verified that the duration of the assimilators have always been and always reported as 300 seconds. Here is a copy and paste of the actual data from 9/19/2011 (the tooltip is generated automatically, it?s not hand written, so that never changed either):
Exprblockduration
{
Statement 300
}
* I see a change in the data that modified the Energy Resistance. The magnitude was not changed, but the algorithm that calculates the math was changed in an effort to improve performance (this change was only dont on this power because it was the only one useing and old algorithm , and no other powers were affected as far as I can see). This is likely the problem. Any reduction in energy resistance was not intentional and I am looking into a fix now.
As I look into this, please help me by:
* Being clear on bug reports.
* Please don?t jump to conclusions.
* Be Patient.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
* Nothing was changed intentionally.
* I verified that the duration of the assimilators have always been and always reported as 300 seconds. Here is a copy and paste of the actual data from 9/19/2011 (the tooltip is generated automatically, it?s not hand written, so that never changed either):
Exprblockduration
{
Statement 300
}
* I see a change in the data that modified the Energy Resistance. The magnitude was not changed, but the algorithm that calculates the math was changed in an effort to improve performance (this change was only dont on this power because it was the only one useing and old algorithm , and no other powers were affected as far as I can see). This is likely the problem. Any reduction in energy resistance was not intentional and I am looking into a fix now.
As I look into this, please help me by:
* Being clear on bug reports.
* Please don?t jump to conclusions.
* Be Patient.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
Thanks for stopping by Al - I don't know what happened - all I know is the 2 times I dropped it after someone claimed it was bugged. I tested with a watch - 180 seconds until it exploded both times(the explosion as you know is the annimation for it's removal from the map)
It was just a standard enemy encounter map - warp in spot - NPC's where more than 15km out - I just cloaked dropped it and started the counter both times - 180 seconds.
That's all I checked - can't say anything else about how much dmg it did or how much dmg it took to destroy - only that it lasted 180 seconds after deployment.
timerwise i never noticed any changes as i normally just drop and forget...
however the damage it takes has been changed from the 1 hp per energy hit it took up to 200-275, based on combat logs i looked at..at this rate it is normally destroyed with in 10 seconds of being dropped..with multiple enemies attacking it....however with just one attacking it (a typhoon in this instance) it did take it out in under 20 seconds.
Thank you Gecko that's all I wanted to know (looked in to and a short, clear response) and a big thank you for taking the trouble to look in to it and report back.
This was why I didn't start or want to start a rant when it now turns out it was unintentional and will be fixed at some point. Now if people want to rant about the console as it's intended then they can do in another thread, this one has run it's course.
So code says it lasts 300 seconds and in reality it only lasts 180 - perhaps all the system timers are running almost twice as fast now, so everything only lasts half as long? Or a DOFF is inadvertently treating it is a cooldown and reducing its duration.
As someone who has used this item extensively and very much enjoyed it, I still have to say it has proven a bit too effective as a constantly spammable point defense that can wipe out targetable torpedoes and fighters. It's just a tad too good at it and needs some slight re-balancing, though I'm not exactly sure how. At least torps should be immune to the passive radiation excluding the bursts.
I actually agree with you even though I love this thing. I think the good trade-off would be to make it drain significantly more energy but only damage when it was shot at.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
I just want to be clear without jumping to any conclusions, but your statement leads me to believe that you would like to take wack at Aceton Assimilators, but currently do not have a valid reason for doing so - is that accurate?
It would seem to me that this item is problematic in its implementation.
I can't think of any other console item that is allowed to have both a 5 minute duration, an AoE effect, near immunity to energy weapons and the ability for separate copies of said pet to be spawned while the original exists.
Does that alone not constitute enough of a balance issue to create the need for a fix?
You can take it out with one or two torpedoes without hurting yourself or others.
Let me know if you'd like a demonstration of what it's like to face 5 coordinated ships pumping out AAs constantly.
Once you have to stop fighting your actual opponent to fight their 5min duration pets that are immune to your damage dealers primary weapon type, they have already gained control of the situation and you have lost it.
An item that basically does that for you, is problematic with regards to balance.
Let me know if you'd like a demonstration of what it's like to face 5 coordinated ships pumping out AAs constantly.
Once you have to stop fighting your actual opponent to fight their 5min duration pets that are immune to your damage dealers primary weapon type, they have already gained control of the situation and you have lost it.
An item that basically does that for you, is problematic with regards to balance.
I agree with you, to me, AA has always been super OP when a whole team of Klink spam an entire area with it. Mind you, I usually use an exclusive or almost exclusive torpedo built.
That said, now that the Federation finally have access to decent ships with cloak, this should be less of an issue. Even if an area has 5 AA scattering around, a cloak ship can easily take all of them out in a single TS3. It should be mandatory team mantra whenever in FvK - someone needs to be responsible for AA cleansing duties. The caveat is it requires someone with Torp + TS skill, preferably a TS3 and that the team is well coordinated. The latter is usually an issue in FvK pug team. As a result, a problem with obvious solution becomes a lot harder in practice and any Klingnon who claim "Well, you just need to shoot it with a Torp." will be the first one to cry bloody murder when this item appears a super cheap reward pack item on the exchange for the Fed in the near future.
You may as well nerf it now, whether this change was truly unintentional or not as was claimed given Cryptic's demonstrated history of nerfing paid items from Andorian ships, to Vesta, to their attempt change to bio-neural warhead - with or without notice. The cynical side of me doesn't believe this change was "unintentional" as claimed, maybe I have been playing too much Romulan, so blame LoR. :P
"Let me know if you'd like a demonstration of what it's like to face 5 coordinated ships pumping out AAs constantly.
Once you have to stop fighting your actual opponent to fight their 5min duration pets that are immune to your damage dealers primary weapon type, they have already gained control of the situation and you have lost it.
An item that basically does that for you, is problematic with regards to balance."
Keep your nerf bat to yourself there cheater. You and your fleet lost the right to have any say in what gets nerfed anymore.
Of course the nerf was deliberate, telling anyone about it isn't mandatory. You don't own your game or anything in it according to the user agreement, they can change anything at will, without explanation or recourse on your part.
I just re-read them this morning.
Ah, No.
While those may be the technical and legal disclaimers, it is highly unethical to change anything that a customer has paid real money for. The developers were quick to fix the unintentional nerf to bioneural, TTD and tricobalt torpedoes because of this only a couple months ago. This situation is not what it seems.
* Nothing was changed intentionally.
* I verified that the duration of the assimilators have always been and always reported as 300 seconds. Here is a copy and paste of the actual data from 9/19/2011 (the tooltip is generated automatically, it?s not hand written, so that never changed either):
Exprblockduration
{
Statement 300
}
* I see a change in the data that modified the Energy Resistance. The magnitude was not changed, but the algorithm that calculates the math was changed in an effort to improve performance (this change was only dont on this power because it was the only one useing and old algorithm , and no other powers were affected as far as I can see). This is likely the problem. Any reduction in energy resistance was not intentional and I am looking into a fix now.
As I look into this, please help me by:
* Being clear on bug reports.
* Please don?t jump to conclusions.
* Be Patient.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
And I read a little farther and fine this from Geko. Thank you for dispelling the paranoia. Much appreciated.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Now lets go back to the civilized conversation the adults were having.
This is not a Fed vs. KDF balance concern. This is a player vs. player balance concern.
As you can plainly see consoles are being sent cross-faction. Do you not want this item fixed now for when you might have to actually face it yourself in the future?
While those may be the technical and legal disclaimers, it is highly unethical to change anything that a customer has paid real money for. The developers were quick to fix the unintentional nerf to bioneural, TTD and tricobalt torpedoes because of this only a couple months ago. This situation is not what it seems.
And I read a little farther and fine this from Geko. Thank you for dispelling the paranoia. Much appreciated.
There are many with trust issues regarding Cryptic, it's gotten hard to tell when changes are planned and intentional or not when they don't tell anyone about them, or comment when asked about them.
* Nothing was changed intentionally.
* I verified that the duration of the assimilators have always been and always reported as 300 seconds. Here is a copy and paste of the actual data from 9/19/2011 (the tooltip is generated automatically, it?s not hand written, so that never changed either):
Exprblockduration
{
Statement 300
}
* I see a change in the data that modified the Energy Resistance. The magnitude was not changed, but the algorithm that calculates the math was changed in an effort to improve performance (this change was only dont on this power because it was the only one useing and old algorithm , and no other powers were affected as far as I can see). This is likely the problem. Any reduction in energy resistance was not intentional and I am looking into a fix now.
As I look into this, please help me by:
* Being clear on bug reports.
* Please don?t jump to conclusions.
* Be Patient.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
With all due respect, Geko, it is NOT lasting the reported 300 seconds; it only lasts 180 seconds.
I just tested it extensively with the stopwatch app on my Nexus 7.
I was in a Ha'nom Guardian Warbird, running with the "Law" reward duty officer (who lowers the cooldown on torpedos). I'll check it again shortly with my Gorn character in his Varanus and post if I see any difference.
There are many with trust issues regarding Cryptic, it's gotten hard to tell when changes are planned and intentional or not when they don't tell anyone about them, or comment when asked about them.
Thanks Geko for clearing up the speculation.
Let's just say a corrupted code just doesn't suddenly auto-reduce the duration of an item from 300s to 180s exactly. It's also possible changes were made by other people that Geko is not aware of or not privy to. Communication within a large organization is hardly ever perfect or smooth. In fact, it can be quite choppy and conflicting at times, based on personal experience.
As for Cryptic would never change a paid item without notice - that's just funny because that's exactly what they have done so many times before. Even as recent as these LoR blogs where each new ship was presented with their unique console, every single of them was accompanied by "Subject to change at any time" or something to that effect. Every single of those ships must be paid with Zen = $$$
My instinct tells me this "bug" is not an accident, it's too perfect to be just an accident, whether one realizes it or not. It's not good enough that duration is suddenly cut short to 180 sec exactly now Energy Damages suddenly work against it too. Two corrupted codes affecting two totally unrelated functions? It just doesn't seem plausible.
Let's just say a corrupted code just doesn't suddenly auto-reduce the duration of an item from 300s to 180s exactly. It's also possible changes were made by other people that Geko is not aware of or not privy to. Communication within a large organization is hardly ever perfect or smooth. In fact, it can be quite choppy and conflicting at times, based on personal experience.
As for Cryptic would never change a paid item without notice - that's just funny because that's exactly what they have done so many times before. Even as recent as these LoR blogs where each new ship was presented with their unique console, every single of them was accompanied by "Subject to change at any time" or something to that effect. Every single of those ships must be paid with Zen = $$$
My instinct tells me this "bug" is not an accident, it's too perfect to be just an accident, whether one realizes it or not. It's not good enough that duration is suddenly cut short to 180 sec exactly now Energy Damages suddenly work against it too. Two corrupted codes affecting two totally unrelated functions? It just doesn't seem plausible.
I just want to be clear without jumping to any conclusions, but your statement leads me to believe that you would like to take wack at Aceton Assimilators, but currently do not have a valid reason for doing so - is that accurate?
It would seem to me that this item is problematic in its implementation.
I can't think of any other console item that is allowed to have both a 5 minute duration, an AoE effect, near immunity to energy weapons and the ability for separate copies of said pet to be spawned while the original exists.
Does that alone not constitute enough of a balance issue to create the need for a fix?
It has a 5 km radius and does not move .... Presuming your ship moves I fail to see the problem. Stationary targets are so op!!! Now if it starts chasing you down then maybe we can call it the "aceton of doom", but until then learn to fly a couple km away or how to shoot just a torpedo.
And 5 of them can continue to cast other AAs during the fight.
"5 km radius".
That sure sounds harmless...
Except, for one, it's a sphere.
I'll let you figure out what the total area that 5 players x 2 AAs each x 5 km spheres can cover.
Reasons why no one should defend this item:
1) There are good reasons KvK and FvK queues have long been in a sad state - many of those are gone now - however AAs is still one of the few remaining.
2) When this item is ported cross-faction you will have to deal with it as well, and so will FvF play. Better to balance this item for all parties.
Do people still have illusions that this item won't be put in a future lockbox? One would think that Plas Leech should be all the evidence you need to tell you that this is not the case.
Comments
Thanks for verifying this it was hard to test this when in the middle of a no win. Updated the OP.
Show me the patch note where cryptic says they make any change on the Aceton Assimilator Basic functions?
and if he stays 300 sec or 180 sec i never try and ist not importend for me, he is most times bevor this time runs out dead.
but now he is dead in <6sec if he get some hits, i have never seen this TRIBBLE what is now running!!!!!
i have used him last 11 months every day and now he is definitivly not more working, so i call it a gamebug.
i hate it to see every week other gameparts buged.:mad:
Show me the one for the mail attachment limit? Just because there isn't one doesn't mean a change has not happened.
Personally I don't find 3 min all that bad - you are able to drop another 1 Loooonnggg before that runs out.
Sure they should give details and update what is displayed - but 3 min is still a long time - and it cuts down on the spam left lying around.
my 2 test tries were 180 seconds exactly - not a second off - which tells me it's set to 3 min now.
* Nothing was changed intentionally.
* I verified that the duration of the assimilators have always been and always reported as 300 seconds. Here is a copy and paste of the actual data from 9/19/2011 (the tooltip is generated automatically, it?s not hand written, so that never changed either):
Exprblockduration
{
Statement 300
}
* I see a change in the data that modified the Energy Resistance. The magnitude was not changed, but the algorithm that calculates the math was changed in an effort to improve performance (this change was only dont on this power because it was the only one useing and old algorithm , and no other powers were affected as far as I can see). This is likely the problem. Any reduction in energy resistance was not intentional and I am looking into a fix now.
As I look into this, please help me by:
* Being clear on bug reports.
* Please don?t jump to conclusions.
* Be Patient.
Note, we will never intentionally (and I and very particular when I say ?never?) nerf an item/power that was paid for with money without very good reason and without letting you know (believe me, there are plenty I would love to take a wack at beside the Aceton Assimilators).
Thanks for stopping by Al - I don't know what happened - all I know is the 2 times I dropped it after someone claimed it was bugged. I tested with a watch - 180 seconds until it exploded both times(the explosion as you know is the annimation for it's removal from the map)
It was just a standard enemy encounter map - warp in spot - NPC's where more than 15km out - I just cloaked dropped it and started the counter both times - 180 seconds.
That's all I checked - can't say anything else about how much dmg it did or how much dmg it took to destroy - only that it lasted 180 seconds after deployment.
Funny I know that I personally have had to redesign my builds against many fed things in the past. Why would doing the same be different?
R.I.P
1st deployed was destroyed by 6 NPC photon torps during my timer
2nd deployed - lasted exactly 180 seconds - no npc interaction
3rd deployed - 180 seconds on the nose no npc interaction
That's all I can say about that.
Edit (so in total today I have deployed 4 without any npc interaction - all exploded - ie ran out - at 180 seconds exactly)
however the damage it takes has been changed from the 1 hp per energy hit it took up to 200-275, based on combat logs i looked at..at this rate it is normally destroyed with in 10 seconds of being dropped..with multiple enemies attacking it....however with just one attacking it (a typhoon in this instance) it did take it out in under 20 seconds.
kinetic damage taken is still the same i think.
I'm sorry, I read this and laughed.
Thank you Gecko that's all I wanted to know (looked in to and a short, clear response) and a big thank you for taking the trouble to look in to it and report back.
This was why I didn't start or want to start a rant when it now turns out it was unintentional and will be fixed at some point. Now if people want to rant about the console as it's intended then they can do in another thread, this one has run it's course.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=10645701#post10645701
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
I actually agree with you even though I love this thing. I think the good trade-off would be to make it drain significantly more energy but only damage when it was shot at.
I just want to be clear without jumping to any conclusions, but your statement leads me to believe that you would like to take wack at Aceton Assimilators, but currently do not have a valid reason for doing so - is that accurate?
It would seem to me that this item is problematic in its implementation.
I can't think of any other console item that is allowed to have both a 5 minute duration, an AoE effect, near immunity to energy weapons and the ability for separate copies of said pet to be spawned while the original exists.
Does that alone not constitute enough of a balance issue to create the need for a fix?
R.I.P
You can take it out with one or two torpedoes without hurting yourself or others.
Let me know if you'd like a demonstration of what it's like to face 5 coordinated ships pumping out AAs constantly.
Once you have to stop fighting your actual opponent to fight their 5min duration pets that are immune to your damage dealers primary weapon type, they have already gained control of the situation and you have lost it.
An item that basically does that for you, is problematic with regards to balance.
I agree with you, to me, AA has always been super OP when a whole team of Klink spam an entire area with it. Mind you, I usually use an exclusive or almost exclusive torpedo built.
That said, now that the Federation finally have access to decent ships with cloak, this should be less of an issue. Even if an area has 5 AA scattering around, a cloak ship can easily take all of them out in a single TS3. It should be mandatory team mantra whenever in FvK - someone needs to be responsible for AA cleansing duties. The caveat is it requires someone with Torp + TS skill, preferably a TS3 and that the team is well coordinated. The latter is usually an issue in FvK pug team. As a result, a problem with obvious solution becomes a lot harder in practice and any Klingnon who claim "Well, you just need to shoot it with a Torp." will be the first one to cry bloody murder when this item appears a super cheap reward pack item on the exchange for the Fed in the near future.
You may as well nerf it now, whether this change was truly unintentional or not as was claimed given Cryptic's demonstrated history of nerfing paid items from Andorian ships, to Vesta, to their attempt change to bio-neural warhead - with or without notice. The cynical side of me doesn't believe this change was "unintentional" as claimed, maybe I have been playing too much Romulan, so blame LoR. :P
Once you have to stop fighting your actual opponent to fight their 5min duration pets that are immune to your damage dealers primary weapon type, they have already gained control of the situation and you have lost it.
An item that basically does that for you, is problematic with regards to balance."
Keep your nerf bat to yourself there cheater. You and your fleet lost the right to have any say in what gets nerfed anymore.
Ah, No.
While those may be the technical and legal disclaimers, it is highly unethical to change anything that a customer has paid real money for. The developers were quick to fix the unintentional nerf to bioneural, TTD and tricobalt torpedoes because of this only a couple months ago. This situation is not what it seems.
And I read a little farther and fine this from Geko. Thank you for dispelling the paranoia. Much appreciated.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Feel better?
Now lets go back to the civilized conversation the adults were having.
This is not a Fed vs. KDF balance concern. This is a player vs. player balance concern.
As you can plainly see consoles are being sent cross-faction. Do you not want this item fixed now for when you might have to actually face it yourself in the future?
There are many with trust issues regarding Cryptic, it's gotten hard to tell when changes are planned and intentional or not when they don't tell anyone about them, or comment when asked about them.
Thanks Geko for clearing up the speculation.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
With all due respect, Geko, it is NOT lasting the reported 300 seconds; it only lasts 180 seconds.
I just tested it extensively with the stopwatch app on my Nexus 7.
I was in a Ha'nom Guardian Warbird, running with the "Law" reward duty officer (who lowers the cooldown on torpedos). I'll check it again shortly with my Gorn character in his Varanus and post if I see any difference.
Let's just say a corrupted code just doesn't suddenly auto-reduce the duration of an item from 300s to 180s exactly. It's also possible changes were made by other people that Geko is not aware of or not privy to. Communication within a large organization is hardly ever perfect or smooth. In fact, it can be quite choppy and conflicting at times, based on personal experience.
As for Cryptic would never change a paid item without notice - that's just funny because that's exactly what they have done so many times before. Even as recent as these LoR blogs where each new ship was presented with their unique console, every single of them was accompanied by "Subject to change at any time" or something to that effect. Every single of those ships must be paid with Zen = $$$
My instinct tells me this "bug" is not an accident, it's too perfect to be just an accident, whether one realizes it or not. It's not good enough that duration is suddenly cut short to 180 sec exactly now Energy Damages suddenly work against it too. Two corrupted codes affecting two totally unrelated functions? It just doesn't seem plausible.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mOxFpBH6YP0/UWBZWOdR2BI/AAAAAAAAMFY/goZ9_59wsHs/s1600/z+tinfoil+hat.jpg
It has a 5 km radius and does not move .... Presuming your ship moves I fail to see the problem. Stationary targets are so op!!! Now if it starts chasing you down then maybe we can call it the "aceton of doom", but until then learn to fly a couple km away or how to shoot just a torpedo.
No, but it's users do.
And 5 of them can continue to cast other AAs during the fight.
"5 km radius".
That sure sounds harmless...
Except, for one, it's a sphere.
I'll let you figure out what the total area that 5 players x 2 AAs each x 5 km spheres can cover.
Reasons why no one should defend this item:
1) There are good reasons KvK and FvK queues have long been in a sad state - many of those are gone now - however AAs is still one of the few remaining.
2) When this item is ported cross-faction you will have to deal with it as well, and so will FvF play. Better to balance this item for all parties.
Do people still have illusions that this item won't be put in a future lockbox? One would think that Plas Leech should be all the evidence you need to tell you that this is not the case.
Assuming no overlap, about 210 km^3 (depending on how far you write out pi)
yes, i'm incapable of not trying to solve a numbers problem put in front of me