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T'varo Vs B'rel
retrosrages
Member Posts: 235 Arc User
come on Cryptic you give the t'varo 32k hull and a better shield mod than the brel and a good turn rate. think its about time you updated the brel now we have a new faction of cloaking ships, the top t'varo is just about a jem attack ship that can cloak, do you guys ever think 2 steps ahead
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I fly a fleet T'Varo on my new Reman- it is much more powerful than the fleet B'rel(which I have as well) with 4 tac console slots - large hull Uni lt cmd and cmd tac slot - the B'rel is now obsolete.
personally though I love the retro Look of the B'rel more than most other ships - sadly as a torp bomber it can't compete with 4 tac slots of the T'Varo
Perfect example: KDF Escorts and Destroyers. They cannot hold a candle to the sheer variety and potency of the Fleet Fed Escorts. Before the Shipyard system was put in place, the Guramba was a pure killer in PVP. And Raptors were endangered even before the Shipyard system. Now? Sighting a Guramba is like a Bigfoot story. Raptors are still endangered with the occasional Fleet Sommraw.
Off topic a bit - but PvP is going the way of the dodo bird - only some old timers will be left soon - with the more and more power ships stacked on with more traits added + 3 rep systems worth of passives+ fleet elite gear
the cost and learning curve + the shear firepower and knowledge you need is moving vertically straight up - this is goig to scare almost all newcomers away and cause the casuals to avoid it.
I mean the new traits + the rep make it super OP - anyone without being around for a while and being hardcore will be lost - been in some matches in the last 2 days with my fleet T'varo and man things have really stepped up a notch = death to a game aspect already on life support.
The FvK ques have been jammed like I have not seen before - but a lot of the new Fed/rommies are getting smoked in seconds as I have noticed tons of KDF have respec'd into decloaking and debuff + grouping with a few exposed with hunters staying cloaked waiting for the rommies to uncloak.
Fast paced and fun for a bit - but like I said soon it will drive most novices and newbies running back to PvE
Hey, we're not that rare! I PvP'd a Guramba just last week! It was kind of fun watching all the Defiants whoosh by and dust me with their DHC's.
Pity the four BoPs on my team and the four Defiants on the other team couldn't have just gone off and had their spinny swift battles somewhere while the Recluse and I duked it out...
But for the fleet version, it still confuses me why they ever gave us another engineering slot. The B'rel isnt build to tank, so more engineering slots will do absolutely nothing. As a raider, the B'rel should be a ship focussed on an Alpha strike. That is the entire point of raider gameplay. And I know the Klingons aren't the best engineers in the universe, but they are not the microbrains Q thinks of them and they would be smart enough to add a console for more pew pew.
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Tis true. Many vessels in the game have fallen off the end due to new vessel power creep.
I do wish that Cryptic would do a once-twice over on all the older vessel ingame and balance them accordingly to the latest PC bar.
R.I.P
Granted its been a while since I flew my B'rel and may not be up to date on recent events that may have changed the basics but I was of the belief that an extra Eng slot would help its hull based tanking/ damage mitigation for surviving recloaking after an attack.
What are the B'rel/Fl. B'rel defensive measures now?
R.I.P
Destroy the enemy first. Then cloak.
Both have Enhanced Battle Cloaks, except the T'varo has an Enchanced Romulan Battle Cloak, which is slightly better, but not important of a difference.
The T'varo has 20% more hull, than the B'rel (29700 vs. 24750) and 12.5% more shields (0.99 vs. 0.88 shield modifier). The T'varo also has an extra aft weapon slot.
The B'rel has a turnrate of 23, while the T'varo "only" has 18. The T'varo also comes with a special console, on top of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, which was supposed to be the B'rel's special trick.
The only things the B'rel beats the T'varo, is that it has universal BOff seating, although still has 1 BOff less. And better turnrate.
Yeah, talk about power creep.
newromulan1 made a good point about PvP, will all the rep, fleet and other stuff it's just scaring people off. You need a decent sized fleet and a lot of resources and time developed to a character to be competitive.
To be totally honest PvP should be scaled so it disables reputation bonuses, scale all ship stats and fleet gear to c-store or free ship stats (that or only allow free ships to enter PvP arenas) so PvP will be based on skill rather than shinies. A level playing field is what will make the good players shine and the bad players learn and improve.
As it currently stands, PvP is simply not worth all the time and effort especially though of us in small fleets that have only just hit tier 2 and don't have all the fancy fleet stuff and ships to compete with.
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Someone made the point that the B'rel has all the universal slots and that if all federation ships or at least some could get them, then the BOP's could get a buff. Not surprised.
However I must point out that the Universal BOFF stations on the B'rel I think was done as it was on all KDF BOPs to allow for the lack any any decent science ships, but it still isn't a very viable science ship due to the lack of hull and shield points.
While the Universal slots can allow for a lot, the sacrifices the ships have for it doesn't make it all that much of an advantage at all. It's only really a viable PvP ship and what 90% (?) of the STO community doesn't play PvP due to all the shines and expense you need to stay competitive today.
The BOP class in general needs a buff, none of are are saying turning them into fully fledged escorts just beef them up a bit with some more hull a more destroyer like shield modifier and perhaps an addition aft (or fore to spice things up a bit) weapon slot. The Raptor and destroyer class would still be a harder ship in terms of durability, it would just allow the ship to be a more viable choice for players in the PvE environment.
Roach, it will take more than a once-twice to fix the problems, but a total re-commitment of Cryptic towards PvP.
LOL, you're forgetting that pretty much everything in the Rom Rep buff and make the torpedo more powerful (+Defense, +Damage, -CD and +Speed).
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The problem may not be the fact that the T'varo is a superior ship than the B'rel with an Enhanced Battle Cloak, or that the T'varo is a superior Defiant Retrofit. The problem is that the T'varo is just the latest example of unrestricted power creep.
Star Trek Online will eventually reach a point where it will be unplayable with the ships that players have come to know and love. I know that my interest in the game is waning at a considerably faster pace than it did last year due to the unwillingness to properly balance the game.
Star Trek Online is quickly becoming a game that sacrifices gameplay, and actual sense, in the name of profit. Is that something we should be supporting? Or should we try to convince Cryptic that they're making a mistake before they bleed out more and more casual players that simply cannot keep up with purchasing more and more ships, while having their old purchases become obsolete and worthless?
EDIT: Also ask yourself a very important question. How long has Star Trek Online been out? Has Cryptic ever done a balance pass? Have they ever altered the stats on a ship to bring it in line with other ships? Or have they simply released new ships that are superior to the older ships? Is this a healthy business model? Is this a business model you want to support?
Well said, I am in the same boat where I am now just settling on a ship and running with it. I too have found it an endless battle to try and get the best out of a character due to this method that Cryptic has adopted. The game has really started to go downhill since season 6, some nice features have be added but only to benefit this greed tactic they have adopted making it harder and harder for casual and even serious gamers.
I have even decided not to do any more rep grind because of this. It's becoming too much of a job and a lot of the fun with this game is quickly disappearing because how Cryptic/PWE have turned this into a profit only game. No wonder they released the Romulans, it may work in the short-term but in the overall unless they change and return to their roots I can see it only prolonging the inevitable.
defiant doesnt have battle cloak so its not as able as the t'varo to sneak in attack with the buff from the cloak. the other side of the issue is the reman playable trait which makes it all the much more easier as a t'varo captain :P
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You kinda forgot the the -10 Power to all Subsystems that Romulan ships have.
In add you only get the full Powerbonus from the Singularity core when it is fully charged. Not to mention that the other passives from the Warpcores looking way more appealing to me then the ones from the Singularity cores.
And the singularity powers are not a even compensation.
And jsut for the record, i have a Romulan char to, and i kinda like to play it, but i would still prefer a Warpcore and better powerlvls.
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I really think that the B'rel need some sort of buff, I bought mine when they firt came out and have have great fun with it but would not spend zen to buy one now when the T'varo seem to do everthing much better.
A balance pass, as in going through all of the ships and ensuring they're all roughly equal in terms of balance.
Anyway, there will always be a flood of tears when a change occurs. Look at League of Legends. That game has 30 million players (or more), and the champions get rebalanced every 2-4 weeks. There are constant buffs, constant nerfs, and constant tears. And yet, because of those balance changes the game continues to remain healthy and draw in new players. No matter what champion you decide to play in League of Legends, you will not feel as if you're "doing it wrong" and made a bad choice. (There are some exceptions, but those require a rework, which they're actively doing. Imagine that, a company investing time and energy into old content)
Cryptic would inevitably TRIBBLE some players off once the new changes hit live. A lot of their favorite ships would have been rebalanced, that's more than enough to upset people, considering they've spent money on it. But if Cryptic has done their balancing properly, that money will not have been wasted UNLESS that purchase was made under a "Pay 2 Win" mentality. Right now the T'varo is effectively a "Pay 2 Win" ship because of how much better it is than any other ship that fulfills its role.
And just so you know, the lower power that Romulan ships have balances out at the higher levels. People have already calculated it to be just 17-20 power lower than other ships, which isn't all that much. You have to take into account the power of some of those singularity abilities as well. Most people ignore them, but they are free abilities.
Thats right and like the T'Varo Fleet Version is now should be the Defiant and of course with a feature to make the hull stronger for 1 min with 5min cooldown!
And of course Klingons need some work there Ships suck ... for me !
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Not to mention the Maco shield and Plasmonic Leech both now available to all can offset a lot of that power loss. Plus several engineering bridge officer powers can help as well. So it's really not that much of a disadvantage. Especially for the T'varo which with it's EBC performs the role of a torpedo bomber and torpedos don't take weapon power away. So the system power it has by default would be dedicated to engines and auxiliary if performing the bomber role.
I got the starter pack so I got the T'varo by default while I only started a Romulan character last night I have looked into the stats and it's obviously a far superior vessel.
The Bird of Prey line does need a good buff, most of us can agree we don't want them turning into Raptors but for such an iconic ship it's surprisingly how lacking they are. If they were done right, on my tactical I would just fly BOP's but they aren't really viable in PvE anymore especially with the buff and difficulty increase all the NPC's really got especially the Borg. Borg encounters are now a joke as you need a pre-made team or get lucky and get a group who actually are veterans and experienced players to defeat it. I used to be able to do it on my KDF main with one other reasonable player and now that's not possible with a team of half reasonable players.
All of the ships, as in every single ship in the game, not just the Birds of Prey. That is what I meant, though.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
I just tested EPtA I on one of my characters which have no sensors skill at all and i set the Aux powers level's on the lowest to test it on some of my Fleet mates which have very good stealth setups just to find out i can detect them every single time i use EPtA I and i can see them as far as 30 to 50 km away depending if they're using a B'rel, T'varo or a D'deridex cloaked.
all i can say is that Cryptic better fix their bugs.
This alone would help keep BoPs competitive. They're supposed to be fast, nimble, and normally light on heals/tanking. They rely on hitting fast, disabling/destroying the enemy, and getting back into cloak. Having two types of ships capable of outrunning the things, and having the rest of the Federation escort be the same speed. . .is a problem.
However, I really like the way my Klingon B'rel science captain performs in PvP. Loading out nine science powers and still doing respectable damage with torpedoes is something the Romulans cannot do. The science torpedo boat might not generate as much DPS, but if you load the right powers it can be very effective in team PvP.
The B'rel also has the advantage of being able to swap out bridge officers at will. For instance, if the enemy is keeping a tight formation and extending shields, the aft torpedos can easily be swapped for mines and the commander-level bridge officer can be switched from a science officers to a tactical officer trained in dispersal patterns.
That is something the Romulans cannot do with their current warbirds.
So, I disagree that the T'varo makes the B'rel obsolete. It just narrows its niche even further.