T hese entitled claims are always funny to read on the forum, i am lts and i dont feel entitled. R esponding to such comments on entitlement does nothing. some people wont want to understand son long as they paid for it. O n the other hand though people shouldnt be so quick to call cryptic out on it in the short term since the long term gain outweighs the argument. L ooking around over the years, it seems a constant there will always be those entitlement types. its a fact of life on this game and forum. Lolololol
Well, I... Hey... oh! I see what you did there. I almost missed it.
You neglect the fact that many of us Silver members have made C-store purchases and/or opened lockboxes, and that not all of our Zen comes from dilithium. Some of it comes from real money. I'm not sure how much went towards the purchase of my Galor, but instead of spending that money on an LTS I focused on what I specifically wanted for my Cardassian toon.
I bought a lot of master keys and sold a whole lot of stuff inside of the boxes on the exchange until I finally got enough EC to purchase my Galor. Similarly, some of my C-store unlocks were purchased with real money.
That said, I do NOT feel I should have to pull out my purchase record and provide a dollar figure to justify myself to the likes of you. It is quite enough to make the point that you have absolutely no idea what a Silver member is or is not doing to support the game, so you have no right to use a title like "freeloader" when the facts simply do not support you.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You neglect the fact that many of us Silver members have made C-store purchases and/or opened lockboxes, and that not all of our Zen comes from dilithium. Some of it comes from real money. I'm not sure how much went towards the purchase of my Galor, but instead of spending that money on an LTS I focused on what I specifically wanted for my Cardassian toon.
I bought a lot of master keys and sold a whole lot of stuff inside of the boxes on the exchange until I finally got enough EC to purchase my Galor. Similarly, some of my C-store unlocks were purchased with real money.
That said, I do NOT feel I should have to pull out my purchase record and provide a dollar figure to justify myself to the likes of you. It is quite enough to make the point that you have absolutely no idea what a Silver member is or is not doing to support the game, so you have no right to use a title like "freeloader" when the facts simply do not support you.
If you keep using logic, presenting facts, and being reasonable like this, you'll only confuse him more than he already is. From his worldview, he is the only one among the hundreds of thousands of us who really, truly matters. Besides, he probably won't be able to hear you anyway. He's far too busy listening to the sound of how awesome he is.
Like you, I have spent Real Coin on this game for things I really wanted. I too do not feel the need to justify myself by producing receipts. The people who matter, PWE/Cryptic, know who I am and how much I've spent. As to his 'freeloader' comment: I wonder if Mummy and Daddy ever come down to the basement to see what their Precious One is actually spending his allowance on? Imagine their surprise when they find all the InterWeb Pron he's paid for with their credit cards.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
In terms of being a customer who supports the game, yes it does.
1. Lifetimers - Ponied up a whole lot of money up front, and in good faith for Cryptic to do the game good.
2. Gold Subbers - Regularly paying money into the game, regardless if they actually buy anything.
Then you have the Freeloaders. The ones who don't pay any money into the game. Just because you acquire and spend Zen doesn't mean you've spent your money in this game. You can sell dil to get Zen, and in return, make those purchases while still not putting real money into STO & Cryptic's coffers.
So... let's say I'm running Cryptic (God help us all, right?). For the moment I have to prioritize who gets in due to some issues that I hope can be resolved soon. Who gets in first? The guys who have actually made the regular commitment and paid money (or Lifetimers, alot in a lump sum), or the guys who haven't given me s**t?
Let's see... I dunno... seems so hard to figure out :rolleyes:
OH boo hoo im an LTS and im sooo entitled to everything but since you cannot see my self inflated self important ego is right im gonna whine and complain and rage OH BOO HOO!!
You neglect the fact that many of us Silver members have made C-store purchases and/or opened lockboxes, and that not all of our Zen comes from dilithium. Some of it comes from real money. I'm not sure how much went towards the purchase of my Galor, but instead of spending that money on an LTS I focused on what I specifically wanted for my Cardassian toon.
I bought a lot of master keys and sold a whole lot of stuff inside of the boxes on the exchange until I finally got enough EC to purchase my Galor. Similarly, some of my C-store unlocks were purchased with real money.
That said, I do NOT feel I should have to pull out my purchase record and provide a dollar figure to justify myself to the likes of you. It is quite enough to make the point that you have absolutely no idea what a Silver member is or is not doing to support the game, so you have no right to use a title like "freeloader" when the facts simply do not support you.
Man just calm down some LTS think they are above everyone else that they are superior , entitled and self important.
And that silver members are the great unwashed of STO society but all they are is spoiled brats who think they have to get everything they want......which includes everything lol
So just chillax and enjoy the game dont feed into these LTS trolls who are on here flaming because they didnt get their way lol
I'm a LTS and have been here since before the game was in beta and I'll say this about the whole Gold/Silver thing.
STO would not be here if it was not for you Silvers. We subbers were not enough to keep the game afloat on our own. Without the support and money that you Silvers have poured into this game, STO and by extension LoR would not exist. Do I think that Silvers should be booted out of the game in favor of us LTS/Golds? No, absolutely not. You guys deserve to be here every bit as much as we do. So please, when you see those LTS complaining about Silvers and talking down to you guys like peasants, please understand that not all of us are like that and that we don't share their thoughts. So I will sit in the queue just like the rest of you (even though my LTS does help me get through it faster) and wait my turn to play.
Excuse me, but I have bought plenty of zen. This exactly what I addressed in my original post. Having bought an LTS or sub doesn't make you suddenly better than me.
Indeed it doesn't make us 'better' -- BUT, one of the advertised perks (that's been on the F2P comparison chart since it was first posted was:
"Gold members get Priority login over Silver members in the Login Queue."
So, in effect, we get what we paid for. It doesn't make us 'better' though - that I'll grant you.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I agree with the opinion of unwarranted entitlement from some player's. However, the queue question isn't so much unwarranted. Just grossly misinterpreted.
My Lifetime account status never guaranteed that a queue would never happen for me. Just that I get in sooner if a queue exists at all. When I logged in just now, I briefly read that I was #1 in a queue of 16,000+ player accounts. Then I was straight into the game. I suppose I interpret that to mean that there were are least 16,000 other player's who I got into the game ahead of. I will guess those other accounts are Silver.
But if my Lifetime account is queued at, say, 2500 of 3000 doesn't that simply mean there are 2499 gold or lifers who got into the queue before me? I'm not better than those 2499 to get in ahead of them if they got in line first. So I get to wait. Disappointing but not entirely unexpected on the occasion of an expansion launch.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
I purchased the game when it came out. Played it for 2 months cancelled, came back about 6 months later paid my one month sub played for about 1 day and cancelled again, however even with my history of the game I look at the queue and say hmm so gold members get priority log in.... Now that is tempting...
Don't like to wait then pay for gold, else stop whinging
I find it hilarious how people use "entitled" as some kind of bad thing, like they do with Social Security. It's called "entitlement" because you paid for something that you are now e.n.t.i.t.l.e.d. to.
This is so funny because it would be like going to McD's, paying for a cheeseburger, not getting it and the cashier jumping dwon you're throat because you think you're actually "entitled" to get what you paid for. We generally throw these kinds of people in jail and call them "crooks".
This term has been misused as a negative (Thanks GOP!) when the reality is it's the most basic form of trade. You make something, I pay for it and I get it. The *money* is what entitles me to that.
If players of a game aren't entitled to get what they pay for, then the fix is simple: return all players' money who ever paid for anything, hence, they are no longer entitled to anything at all.
This was always my biggest concern about the term "Free2Play". It gives the idea that "Hey, it's free so you have no rights" when, if the game were truly free, it wouldn't exist i.e. no profit in it.
Here's what F2P does to players: it takes away our individual "entitlement" since a single player may *actually* be playing for free while ignoring the collective that *is* paying and *is* entitled.
If someone agrees to sell you something, you're entitled to it if you pay. Period. No amount of conservative re-writing of basic economics changes that aspect.
BTW, I have no "skin in the game" on this. I enjoy STO and find it's worth the money I've spent. This isn't an argument against the game, just misinformed players who don't seem to comprehend what "entitled" actually means.
"Being" entitled is a fact of economics. Cryptic is just as "entitled" to my money/dili/Zen for producing a game yet no one is using that in a negative way towards them (and they shouldn't). "Feeling" entitled means you haven't given anything and want something in return for contributing nothing to the trade.
TL;DR
If you pay, you're entitled. If you don't, your not.
Excuse me, but I have bought plenty of zen. This exactly what I addressed in my original post. Having bought an LTS or sub doesn't make you suddenly better than me.
Yeah it does, espeically since most of us who are LTS from the start, have also
A: bought multiple copies of the game to get all the other preorder bonuses
B: purchased everything in the C-store BECAUSE Dstahl said it helps support the game more
C: Went out and popularized the game and did marketing for it to groups around the web.
some of us even
drove to a state where there was a Del Taco at 3 am just to get the Del Taco shuttle codes for himself and his friends. and did so with a smile on his face and the TNG theme song in his heart.
These few precious people have literally sunk thousands into this game.
SO yes, WE ARE BETTER THEN YOU!
And as far as the "why am I waiting in a queue" rants, it's because one of the "perks" of being a Lifer is that you go straight to the front of the line if and when the server is queued. That is a perk WE are supposed to get, and it looks like it's just another perk that has been removed and taken away from us.
Why does it anger us so, because when your sold something, and the seller changes it up on you, that's wrong. It's also illegal btw, but cryptic of course is not concerned because most gamers are broke, plus no one is going to actually put Cryptic's feet to the fire over a video game. When I purchased the LTS, I entered into a contract with cryptic, and the features of the LTS were the perks that I am supposed to get, Cryptic cannot legally/morally just change that contract without me approving it, of which I do not.
But of course I don't expect you to care, heck you don't even subscribe, your not even a paying customer, yet you almost have the same rights and privileges as someone who's sunk thousands,
moreover you haven't been here from the beginning watching this game go from Star Trek Online to Ferengi Online and as time goes on, that difference is getting thinner and thinner.
The entitled argument is used by sycophants and yes men to demonize those of us that have real opinions and demand that standards be kept, we say it with Mass Effect 3, and instead of that developer admitting they messed up, they compounded it by standing behind their TRIBBLE up and allowing the sycophantic gaming magazines demonizing their customers with the same terms of "entitled" and "whiners" and so on and so forth.
This incremental decay must stop, every time it's always explains as being justified and not worth all the gripe, and every time this community caves, just accept the dilithium, it will be ok, just accept the fact you don't get VA tokens anymore, it's okay, just accept the fact that crafting continues to be broken, it's okay. Over and Over again. And I along with many others are tired of it.
So yes, we are going to voice our anger, our disagreeable attitude about things like this, because we paid and continue to pay good money for this game and we demand that the promises made by this company be kept, that is the LEAST they can do.
And no amount of sycophantic yes men like yourself is going to stop us, in fact if anything, it EMBOLDENS us to continue to fight against the tide of ignorance and jingoism that for some reason a lot of people here seem to have gotten roped into.
So no, we won't be quiet, we won't shut up and we won't just go away.
Excuse me, but I have bought plenty of zen. This exactly what I addressed in my original post. Having bought an LTS or sub doesn't make you suddenly better than me.
Yes it does.
Not actually serious, but that's what they really think
If there has been misunderstanding, I do not have a problem with the gold getting priority login. That is fine.
It's the people acting like I'm just a freeloader that drive me nuts.
you may not be, but generally, if you play this game for free, and purchase all your C-store items with Dilithium trading instead of buying Zen, then yes, you ARE a freeloader.
I don't know if that applies to you or not, but to those that the above statement applies, yes they ARE freeloaders.
LTSers are NOT freeloaders since they usually have the income to actually BUY their Z points.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Those kinds of comments are what breeds that bad feeling about the word "entitled". Precisely why I explained "feeling entitled".
Being entitled to something doesn't make you better than anyone else. Entitlement has perks but only because they were paid for, not because of anything else.
"But I SUUUUPPORTED THIS GAME TO BE WHAT IT IIIIISSSSSS!!!" No, you paid for a product you believed in, which is great. The money is why we're entitled, not because of what we did for Cryptic.
*Edit. Again, semantics. I love STO and am happy to play and enjoy it. From time to time I'll even drop a $20, even after my LTS (which, as it was sold to us back then, should have included ALL this stuff for free but we compromise. We understand.)
You clearly haven't read the EULA you have to read before playing the game. Like at all. Or you'd know that nothing Cryptic's done is illegal.
You just think it's illegal because you're trying to equate services to goods.
And your not aware of contract law, you cannot change a service contract without at least notifying the customer, now you can create a loaded acceptance by saying.
"by continuing to use this service you are agreeing to the changes" or something to that effect.
But in general, you have to get the customer to accept and agree to those changes. You cannot change a service contract with out any kind of notification.
Wow agentexeider. You... totally missed the intention of my statements completely. Check what I have said, carefully. I was aiming the original post at the people who want their money back because the servers were unstable the first day of a major update, those who think they are waiting behind silver players, and those that downright think silver players are to blame for these outages, etc. Let me rephrase what you quoted from me, because obviously you took it the wrong way.
I have paid a significant amount of money into the game via zen. My original post addresses that fact that some gold members believe they are higher life forms than silver players. It also addresses those that get mad because inevitable problems happen on release day.
I will again state it in case someone missed it: If you do not act like what is described in the original post and this one, I salute you.
Those kinds of comments are what breeds that bad feeling about the word "entitled". Precisely why I explained "feeling entitled".
Being entitled to something doesn't make you better than anyone else. Entitlement has perks but only because they were paid for, not because of anything else.
"But I SUUUUPPORTED THIS GAME TO BE WHAT IT IIIIISSSSSS!!!" No, you paid for a product you believed in, which is great. The money is why we're entitled, not because of what we did for Cryptic.
*Edit. Again, semantics. I love STO and am happy to play and enjoy it. From time to time I'll even drop a $20, even after my LTS (which, as it was sold to us back then, should have included ALL this stuff for free but we compromise. We understand.)
Ok, this is a viewpoint I understand. I'm only a silver player (Since launch, I've dumped a few bucks into a subscription that amounts to getting 600 day veteran rewards, and a few bucks to buy some ships here and there), so I don't think that should mean I've supported the game any less than some "entitled" LTS does. HOWEVER, if by paying for an LTS you're supposed to get queue preference, then I agree, you're entitled to that. I don't mind waiting a week for this login nightmare to calm down while all the LTSers get thier fix, but the "silver players must never ever ever be allowed to play again because I'm so higher and mightier than them for the one time I've paid to be a lifer!" attitude is ridiculous. You say "Hey, I even drop $20 more for ZEN even AFTER I've paid for my LTS!" Well, hey, Some silver players have dropped even more than your LTS is worth on ZEN, yet some of you think that shouldn't count.
And your not aware of contract law, you cannot change a service contract without at least notifying the customer, now you can create a loaded acceptance by saying.
"by continuing to use this service you are agreeing to the changes" or something to that effect.
But in general, you have to get the customer to accept and agree to those changes. You cannot change a service contract with out any kind of notification.
Those kinds of comments are what breeds that bad feeling about the word "entitled". Precisely why I explained "feeling entitled".
Being entitled to something doesn't make you better than anyone else. Entitlement has perks but only because they were paid for, not because of anything else.
"But I SUUUUPPORTED THIS GAME TO BE WHAT IT IIIIISSSSSS!!!" No, you paid for a product you believed in, which is great. The money is why we're entitled, not because of what we did for Cryptic.
*Edit. Again, semantics. I love STO and am happy to play and enjoy it. From time to time I'll even drop a $20, even after my LTS (which, as it was sold to us back then, should have included ALL this stuff for free but we compromise. We understand.)
I can agree with that definition.
Ultimately, were screwed anyway because the community at large won't fight back and just lie back and take it.....again.
And if the community at large won't fight for themselves then there really isn't anything that can be done unfortunately.
It just angers me that people are "okay" with how they are treated by corporations in general lately.
In the end, this is all really down to the same root cause as racism, sexism and the like; people look for all sorts of arbitrary reasons to to call themselves better than other people.
you may not be, but generally, if you play this game for free, and purchase all your C-store items with Dilithium trading instead of buying Zen, then yes, you ARE a freeloader.
I don't know if that applies to you or not, but to those that the above statement applies, yes they ARE freeloaders.
LTSers are NOT freeloaders since they usually have the income to actually BUY their Z points.
This argument is fundamentally flawed in a number of ways.
1. The entire reason the dilithium exchange works is that it encourages people with money to spend that money on behalf of people with time. THe zen doesn't just come from a magic zen genie that floats in cyberspace- it's all from people who bought it with real money.
When a player buys zen with dilithium, that's effectively equivalent to them buying zen with real money- because that's what's happening. Player A wants dilithium but has money. He buys zen. Player B puts dilithium on the exchange, and gets player A's Zen in return.
Money was spent either way, and indeed it encourages money to be spent in order to get the rewards you can't get purely with zen.
So dilithium exchangers are, fundamentally, not freeloaders.
2. Spending some money once does not mean you can't later become a freeloader.
Your argument is this: "If I pay my three year cell phone contract in a lump sum at the start, then I'm entitled to FREE CELLPHONE COVERAGE FOREVER, and I'm not a freeloader even when the money I paid has run out."
Except you totally are, son. As has been said, an LTS covers approximately 2.5 years worth of subscription contribution.
If you are an LTS subscriber, and have played the game since it's inception, and now contribute no dollars to the game, but instead buy all your stuff with your free monthly zen, you are a freeloader
You contributed in the past. Yes, we get that. But while cryptic has seen fit to reward you with indefinite subscription benefits, that does not mean that you're actually generating magical infinite revenue for the game- after that 2.5 year period is over, you're a deadweight. A freeloader.
All this talk about how you promoted the game when you signed up? Guess what? I did too. I did a ****load of those things, but I didn't buy a lifetime subscription. I subscribed for a year and a half, month to month, as a gold member. I've probably paid just as much money as you, but because you have the LTS you think that you're superior to me and entitled to all this **** that you really aren't?
You can kindly go find a brick wall to kiss, because you ain't getting smarter by the hour, let me tell you.
If there has been misunderstanding, I do not have a problem with the gold getting priority login. That is fine.
It's the people acting like I'm just a freeloader that drive me nuts.
According to the Urban Dictionary, a freeloader is someone who exploits chances to get free stuff whenever possible. So if any player uses the system which permits in-game trade for dilithium for the purposes of acquiring nice things for free, they aren't exploiting anything. To be able to do so is by design.
So I suggest responding to your accusers that we have a special chair for them to sit in. It's call the Neural Neutralizer. And it will make them feel less neurotic about what other player's do.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Ok, this is a viewpoint I understand. I'm only a silver player (Since launch, I've dumped a few bucks into a subscription that amounts to getting 600 day veteran rewards, and a few bucks to buy some ships here and there), so I don't think that should mean I've supported the game any less than some "entitled" LTS does. HOWEVER, if by paying for an LTS you're supposed to get queue preference, then I agree, you're entitled to that. I don't mind waiting a week for this login nightmare to calm down while all the LTSers get thier fix, but the "silver players must never ever ever be allowed to play again because I'm so higher and mightier than them for the one time I've paid to be a lifer!" attitude is ridiculous. You say "Hey, I even drop $20 more for ZEN even AFTER I've paid for my LTS!" Well, hey, Some silver players have dropped even more than your LTS is worth on ZEN, yet some of you think that shouldn't count.
Thanks for reading that.
Some apparently do think that, as I'm seeing while reading. As an LTS, I am entitled to moving past some in line, think "Fast-Pass" at Disney rides only because I paid for that benefit way back when. (And I am assured it works properly having a friend log in at the same time, non-LTS, and be 15k people behind me when I'm sitting in the 200s.)
This "I'm better because I pay" is the result of misusing the word "entitlement" for decades in the media. People with money or who spend money inevitably get a mindset of "better than" those who don't/can't/won't, as if money itself was a determining factor. In this case, money is being used to determine whose the better supporter. Supporting something doesn't give us entitlement. Support is an act of giving, not receiving.
yes, money gets you all kinds of benefits in life and one should sell fairly and buy fairly. Once upon a time, the world actually worked that way. So, money can surely buy benefits that should be respected.
Being *able* to buy those benefits or *wanting/not wanting to* doesn't make any one of us better or worse than the other. Money buys us things we're then entitled to. It doesn't make us "better".
LTS..."I drank your milkshake' TROLLOLOLOLOL.
Can anyone else give me a remedial community college class in economics? Please hide it under a thin veil of psedo-intellectualism::rolleyes:
Gold get's priority login in a queue, but Lifers are supposed to bypass ALL queues, they are to NEVER wait in line.
That's what was in the "Perks Package" when it was sold to us.
I don't recall that being the case at all. We had ques early on (I started playing exactly 1 year after launch) and I went LTS from the start. Back then, there were many, many LTS and monthly subscribers and we shot ahead of the monthlies but were still in ques among other LTS.
AFAIK, there was *never* a time where an LTS was promised, or avoided, ques when demands hit highs.
As an afterthought, the ques were why many, many people quit. it seemed like everyday, you couldn't just log on and play. They went F2P and got some back. With this happening yet again and STO already having grown so much in the last year, I'm afraid many who are giving this game a first-try are like "Yeah...18k people-long lines aren't really going to work for me".
Comments
Well, I... Hey... oh! I see what you did there. I almost missed it.
You neglect the fact that many of us Silver members have made C-store purchases and/or opened lockboxes, and that not all of our Zen comes from dilithium. Some of it comes from real money. I'm not sure how much went towards the purchase of my Galor, but instead of spending that money on an LTS I focused on what I specifically wanted for my Cardassian toon.
I bought a lot of master keys and sold a whole lot of stuff inside of the boxes on the exchange until I finally got enough EC to purchase my Galor. Similarly, some of my C-store unlocks were purchased with real money.
That said, I do NOT feel I should have to pull out my purchase record and provide a dollar figure to justify myself to the likes of you. It is quite enough to make the point that you have absolutely no idea what a Silver member is or is not doing to support the game, so you have no right to use a title like "freeloader" when the facts simply do not support you.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Like you, I have spent Real Coin on this game for things I really wanted. I too do not feel the need to justify myself by producing receipts. The people who matter, PWE/Cryptic, know who I am and how much I've spent. As to his 'freeloader' comment: I wonder if Mummy and Daddy ever come down to the basement to see what their Precious One is actually spending his allowance on? Imagine their surprise when they find all the InterWeb Pron he's paid for with their credit cards.
OH boo hoo im an LTS and im sooo entitled to everything but since you cannot see my self inflated self important ego is right im gonna whine and complain and rage OH BOO HOO!!
Oh cry me a river what a spoiled brat
Man just calm down some LTS think they are above everyone else that they are superior , entitled and self important.
And that silver members are the great unwashed of STO society but all they are is spoiled brats who think they have to get everything they want......which includes everything lol
So just chillax and enjoy the game dont feed into these LTS trolls who are on here flaming because they didnt get their way lol
STO would not be here if it was not for you Silvers. We subbers were not enough to keep the game afloat on our own. Without the support and money that you Silvers have poured into this game, STO and by extension LoR would not exist. Do I think that Silvers should be booted out of the game in favor of us LTS/Golds? No, absolutely not. You guys deserve to be here every bit as much as we do. So please, when you see those LTS complaining about Silvers and talking down to you guys like peasants, please understand that not all of us are like that and that we don't share their thoughts. So I will sit in the queue just like the rest of you (even though my LTS does help me get through it faster) and wait my turn to play.
Mine Trap Supporter
Indeed it doesn't make us 'better' -- BUT, one of the advertised perks (that's been on the F2P comparison chart since it was first posted was:
"Gold members get Priority login over Silver members in the Login Queue."
So, in effect, we get what we paid for. It doesn't make us 'better' though - that I'll grant you.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
My Lifetime account status never guaranteed that a queue would never happen for me. Just that I get in sooner if a queue exists at all. When I logged in just now, I briefly read that I was #1 in a queue of 16,000+ player accounts. Then I was straight into the game. I suppose I interpret that to mean that there were are least 16,000 other player's who I got into the game ahead of. I will guess those other accounts are Silver.
But if my Lifetime account is queued at, say, 2500 of 3000 doesn't that simply mean there are 2499 gold or lifers who got into the queue before me? I'm not better than those 2499 to get in ahead of them if they got in line first. So I get to wait. Disappointing but not entirely unexpected on the occasion of an expansion launch.
who cares ITS NOT WORKING RIGHT
F2P does not mean frustrating to play
Don't like to wait then pay for gold, else stop whinging
Same as
Don't like that ship, then don't buy it.
It's the people acting like I'm just a freeloader that drive me nuts.
This is so funny because it would be like going to McD's, paying for a cheeseburger, not getting it and the cashier jumping dwon you're throat because you think you're actually "entitled" to get what you paid for. We generally throw these kinds of people in jail and call them "crooks".
This term has been misused as a negative (Thanks GOP!) when the reality is it's the most basic form of trade. You make something, I pay for it and I get it. The *money* is what entitles me to that.
If players of a game aren't entitled to get what they pay for, then the fix is simple: return all players' money who ever paid for anything, hence, they are no longer entitled to anything at all.
This was always my biggest concern about the term "Free2Play". It gives the idea that "Hey, it's free so you have no rights" when, if the game were truly free, it wouldn't exist i.e. no profit in it.
Here's what F2P does to players: it takes away our individual "entitlement" since a single player may *actually* be playing for free while ignoring the collective that *is* paying and *is* entitled.
If someone agrees to sell you something, you're entitled to it if you pay. Period. No amount of conservative re-writing of basic economics changes that aspect.
BTW, I have no "skin in the game" on this. I enjoy STO and find it's worth the money I've spent. This isn't an argument against the game, just misinformed players who don't seem to comprehend what "entitled" actually means.
"Being" entitled is a fact of economics. Cryptic is just as "entitled" to my money/dili/Zen for producing a game yet no one is using that in a negative way towards them (and they shouldn't). "Feeling" entitled means you haven't given anything and want something in return for contributing nothing to the trade.
TL;DR
If you pay, you're entitled. If you don't, your not.
Yeah it does, espeically since most of us who are LTS from the start, have also
A: bought multiple copies of the game to get all the other preorder bonuses
B: purchased everything in the C-store BECAUSE Dstahl said it helps support the game more
C: Went out and popularized the game and did marketing for it to groups around the web.
some of us even
These few precious people have literally sunk thousands into this game.
SO yes, WE ARE BETTER THEN YOU!
And as far as the "why am I waiting in a queue" rants, it's because one of the "perks" of being a Lifer is that you go straight to the front of the line if and when the server is queued. That is a perk WE are supposed to get, and it looks like it's just another perk that has been removed and taken away from us.
Why does it anger us so, because when your sold something, and the seller changes it up on you, that's wrong. It's also illegal btw, but cryptic of course is not concerned because most gamers are broke, plus no one is going to actually put Cryptic's feet to the fire over a video game. When I purchased the LTS, I entered into a contract with cryptic, and the features of the LTS were the perks that I am supposed to get, Cryptic cannot legally/morally just change that contract without me approving it, of which I do not.
But of course I don't expect you to care, heck you don't even subscribe, your not even a paying customer, yet you almost have the same rights and privileges as someone who's sunk thousands,
moreover you haven't been here from the beginning watching this game go from Star Trek Online to Ferengi Online and as time goes on, that difference is getting thinner and thinner.
The entitled argument is used by sycophants and yes men to demonize those of us that have real opinions and demand that standards be kept, we say it with Mass Effect 3, and instead of that developer admitting they messed up, they compounded it by standing behind their TRIBBLE up and allowing the sycophantic gaming magazines demonizing their customers with the same terms of "entitled" and "whiners" and so on and so forth.
This incremental decay must stop, every time it's always explains as being justified and not worth all the gripe, and every time this community caves, just accept the dilithium, it will be ok, just accept the fact you don't get VA tokens anymore, it's okay, just accept the fact that crafting continues to be broken, it's okay. Over and Over again. And I along with many others are tired of it.
So yes, we are going to voice our anger, our disagreeable attitude about things like this, because we paid and continue to pay good money for this game and we demand that the promises made by this company be kept, that is the LEAST they can do.
And no amount of sycophantic yes men like yourself is going to stop us, in fact if anything, it EMBOLDENS us to continue to fight against the tide of ignorance and jingoism that for some reason a lot of people here seem to have gotten roped into.
So no, we won't be quiet, we won't shut up and we won't just go away.
-AE
Yes it does.
Not actually serious, but that's what they really think
you may not be, but generally, if you play this game for free, and purchase all your C-store items with Dilithium trading instead of buying Zen, then yes, you ARE a freeloader.
I don't know if that applies to you or not, but to those that the above statement applies, yes they ARE freeloaders.
LTSers are NOT freeloaders since they usually have the income to actually BUY their Z points.
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Entitled, yes, better, no.
Those kinds of comments are what breeds that bad feeling about the word "entitled". Precisely why I explained "feeling entitled".
Being entitled to something doesn't make you better than anyone else. Entitlement has perks but only because they were paid for, not because of anything else.
"But I SUUUUPPORTED THIS GAME TO BE WHAT IT IIIIISSSSSS!!!" No, you paid for a product you believed in, which is great. The money is why we're entitled, not because of what we did for Cryptic.
*Edit. Again, semantics. I love STO and am happy to play and enjoy it. From time to time I'll even drop a $20, even after my LTS (which, as it was sold to us back then, should have included ALL this stuff for free but we compromise. We understand.)
You clearly haven't read the EULA you have to read before playing the game. Like at all. Or you'd know that nothing Cryptic's done is illegal.
You just think it's illegal because you're trying to equate services to goods.
And your not aware of contract law, you cannot change a service contract without at least notifying the customer, now you can create a loaded acceptance by saying.
"by continuing to use this service you are agreeing to the changes" or something to that effect.
But in general, you have to get the customer to accept and agree to those changes. You cannot change a service contract with out any kind of notification.
-AE
I have paid a significant amount of money into the game via zen. My original post addresses that fact that some gold members believe they are higher life forms than silver players. It also addresses those that get mad because inevitable problems happen on release day.
I will again state it in case someone missed it: If you do not act like what is described in the original post and this one, I salute you.
Ok, this is a viewpoint I understand. I'm only a silver player (Since launch, I've dumped a few bucks into a subscription that amounts to getting 600 day veteran rewards, and a few bucks to buy some ships here and there), so I don't think that should mean I've supported the game any less than some "entitled" LTS does. HOWEVER, if by paying for an LTS you're supposed to get queue preference, then I agree, you're entitled to that. I don't mind waiting a week for this login nightmare to calm down while all the LTSers get thier fix, but the "silver players must never ever ever be allowed to play again because I'm so higher and mightier than them for the one time I've paid to be a lifer!" attitude is ridiculous. You say "Hey, I even drop $20 more for ZEN even AFTER I've paid for my LTS!" Well, hey, Some silver players have dropped even more than your LTS is worth on ZEN, yet some of you think that shouldn't count.
Oh, and what did they change, anyway?
I can agree with that definition.
Ultimately, were screwed anyway because the community at large won't fight back and just lie back and take it.....again.
And if the community at large won't fight for themselves then there really isn't anything that can be done unfortunately.
It just angers me that people are "okay" with how they are treated by corporations in general lately.
-AE
This argument is fundamentally flawed in a number of ways.
1. The entire reason the dilithium exchange works is that it encourages people with money to spend that money on behalf of people with time. THe zen doesn't just come from a magic zen genie that floats in cyberspace- it's all from people who bought it with real money.
When a player buys zen with dilithium, that's effectively equivalent to them buying zen with real money- because that's what's happening. Player A wants dilithium but has money. He buys zen. Player B puts dilithium on the exchange, and gets player A's Zen in return.
Money was spent either way, and indeed it encourages money to be spent in order to get the rewards you can't get purely with zen.
So dilithium exchangers are, fundamentally, not freeloaders.
2. Spending some money once does not mean you can't later become a freeloader.
Your argument is this: "If I pay my three year cell phone contract in a lump sum at the start, then I'm entitled to FREE CELLPHONE COVERAGE FOREVER, and I'm not a freeloader even when the money I paid has run out."
Except you totally are, son. As has been said, an LTS covers approximately 2.5 years worth of subscription contribution.
If you are an LTS subscriber, and have played the game since it's inception, and now contribute no dollars to the game, but instead buy all your stuff with your free monthly zen, you are a freeloader
You contributed in the past. Yes, we get that. But while cryptic has seen fit to reward you with indefinite subscription benefits, that does not mean that you're actually generating magical infinite revenue for the game- after that 2.5 year period is over, you're a deadweight. A freeloader.
All this talk about how you promoted the game when you signed up? Guess what? I did too. I did a ****load of those things, but I didn't buy a lifetime subscription. I subscribed for a year and a half, month to month, as a gold member. I've probably paid just as much money as you, but because you have the LTS you think that you're superior to me and entitled to all this **** that you really aren't?
You can kindly go find a brick wall to kiss, because you ain't getting smarter by the hour, let me tell you.
Gold get's priority login in a queue, but Lifers are supposed to bypass ALL queues, they are to NEVER wait in line.
That's what was in the "Perks Package" when it was sold to us.
According to the Urban Dictionary, a freeloader is someone who exploits chances to get free stuff whenever possible. So if any player uses the system which permits in-game trade for dilithium for the purposes of acquiring nice things for free, they aren't exploiting anything. To be able to do so is by design.
So I suggest responding to your accusers that we have a special chair for them to sit in. It's call the Neural Neutralizer. And it will make them feel less neurotic about what other player's do.
Thanks for reading that.
Some apparently do think that, as I'm seeing while reading. As an LTS, I am entitled to moving past some in line, think "Fast-Pass" at Disney rides only because I paid for that benefit way back when. (And I am assured it works properly having a friend log in at the same time, non-LTS, and be 15k people behind me when I'm sitting in the 200s.)
This "I'm better because I pay" is the result of misusing the word "entitlement" for decades in the media. People with money or who spend money inevitably get a mindset of "better than" those who don't/can't/won't, as if money itself was a determining factor. In this case, money is being used to determine whose the better supporter. Supporting something doesn't give us entitlement. Support is an act of giving, not receiving.
yes, money gets you all kinds of benefits in life and one should sell fairly and buy fairly. Once upon a time, the world actually worked that way. So, money can surely buy benefits that should be respected.
Being *able* to buy those benefits or *wanting/not wanting to* doesn't make any one of us better or worse than the other. Money buys us things we're then entitled to. It doesn't make us "better".
I'm so sad for humanity.
Can anyone else give me a remedial community college class in economics? Please hide it under a thin veil of psedo-intellectualism::rolleyes:
I don't recall that being the case at all. We had ques early on (I started playing exactly 1 year after launch) and I went LTS from the start. Back then, there were many, many LTS and monthly subscribers and we shot ahead of the monthlies but were still in ques among other LTS.
AFAIK, there was *never* a time where an LTS was promised, or avoided, ques when demands hit highs.
As an afterthought, the ques were why many, many people quit. it seemed like everyday, you couldn't just log on and play. They went F2P and got some back. With this happening yet again and STO already having grown so much in the last year, I'm afraid many who are giving this game a first-try are like "Yeah...18k people-long lines aren't really going to work for me".