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Best Torpedo Launcher
avengerkid1993
Member Posts: 323 Arc User
Hi guys
I was wondering what is the best torpedo launcher and how projectile weapons DOffs work.
Recently I used the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher, but I don't like it.
yes, it is good against borg cubes and spheres, but is useless against everything else.
Also, i'm not sure about how Projectile Weapon's DOffs work:
with quantum torpedoes, the reduced the cooldown of 5 seconds.
but with romulan hyper-plasma, they reduced the cooldown of only 3 seconds o_O
How they work with photon torpedoes ?
if they reduce photon torpedoes cooldown by 5 seconds, with 5 projectile DOffs i can fire 1 torpedo per second *_*
I was wondering what is the best torpedo launcher and how projectile weapons DOffs work.
Recently I used the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher, but I don't like it.
yes, it is good against borg cubes and spheres, but is useless against everything else.
Also, i'm not sure about how Projectile Weapon's DOffs work:
with quantum torpedoes, the reduced the cooldown of 5 seconds.
but with romulan hyper-plasma, they reduced the cooldown of only 3 seconds o_O
How they work with photon torpedoes ?
if they reduce photon torpedoes cooldown by 5 seconds, with 5 projectile DOffs i can fire 1 torpedo per second *_*
Post edited by avengerkid1993 on
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Torpedoes in STO come in two varieties - fast and reliable, or slow and gimmicky.
Slow and gimmicky torpedoes are mostly for PVE. You *can* make them work in PVP, but due to their slow travel time, and vulnerable projectiles, you'll be much happier with a fast and reliable torp. Omega plasma, romulan hyper-plasma, tricobalt, etc, would count as slow torps.
The fast torps are photon, quantum, transphasic and chroniton. The best fast torpedo for damage is the quantum. Anyone attempting to say different is wrong. You may have heard that photons have higher DPS than quantums - a common saying in STO, but one that is completely incorrect if you're actually building for torpedoes. The goal with a torpedo build, is to take the most powerful torpedo around, and fire it as fast as possible.
The most powerful torpedo is the quantum. The fastest the game can permit you to fire projectiles, is once a second (you will need 3 purple projectile officers to reach this fire rate with quantums.) Your goal is to be firing quantums once a second. This can be reached by using 2x quantum launchers fore and aft, along with 2x fore energy weapons for shield popping. Use 5x 30% quantum damage consoles in your tac slots if possible, and the Adapted MACO/KHG set for another 25% damage. The Rule 62 console from Lobi store will add another 11%. Get these items and you'll be operating with an effective 6 tac consoles boosting your quantum damage. Enjoy!
Once again, completely ignoring the fact that photons reduce your non-torpedo damage by a considerably smaller amount (since you only need two to sustain continuous fire as opposed to three for all other torpedo types), and the fact that torpedoes are effectively worthless if you can't take a target's shields down.
You're glossing over the fact that if you're running quantums you'll need to chain-proc PWOs (that is, have more than one activate on every shot) to sustain continuous fire. With only two quantums you're going to run into serious torpedo downtime (when you don't get the chain-procs), and that's not going to be made up for by two non-boosted energy weapons. Not to mention the difficulty you're going to run into reliably breaking shields.
Photons do not have that issue (since they only need a single proc from a purple PWO to completely remove their cooldown). In addition, you will want to slot a few (probably two, maybe three depending on your ship choice) energy weapon consoles to boost shield breaking, and to give you better sustained damage when your PWOs aren't cooperating.
Simply put: if you're going for a spike damage build quantums are preferable (but you won't be stacking three of them). If you're going for a torpedo machine gun of hilarity, than photons are your weapon of choice. The advantage that quantums have in base damage is more than cancelled out by the way the photon's shorter cooldown interacts with PWOs, and kinetic damage's complete suckitude against shielded targets.
Photon boats work precisely because they are capable of taking the best parts of torpedo and energy heavy builds, and combining them. Quantum based builds simply cannot do that (except on a kumari, but that's a whole 'nother discussion since the weapon slotting means you can put together all sorts of hilariously unorthodox builds that wouldn't work on any other ship, ever).
I got a Charal Escort with this build:
Advanced Fleet Quantuum
Phaser Wing Cannons
Phaser DHC Mk XII [CritH] x3
Phaser DHC Mk XII
Phaser DHC Mk XII
Kinetic Cutting Beam
Phaser Turret MK XI [Dmg] x2
I simply want to know which torpedo is better.
Quantum deals very good damage, but ... photon torps can be fired at rapid pace (1 per second).
which one should i use ?
It is:
- As fast as quantum
- More damage (except against elite fleet versions) than quantum
- Radiation damage higher than plasma
- AoE impact
- No defined damage type so no resistance and no hassle with consoles.
- No usage of Torpedo spread or High Yield so no cool down problems.
With a Charal Escort you don't have to worry about survival because you won't survive.
Hit as hard as you can before you're blown up.
If you play PVE you can even consider tricobalt. If you want PvP then go with har'peng.
For PvP quantums are literally faster, meaning they fly faster and have a shorter time to target, so it can be easier to slip them in a shield facing.
You might find yourself coming back to the rom torp after you try other things. It's one of the best autofire weapons out there, IMO. In PvP if your opponent doesn't have decent spam clearing you can find yourself with a few flights of torps out and chasing your target, then you slap a tractor beam on them and they all hit at once and you pretend you planned it that way. Now if they're bringing healthy spam suppression you need to switch out.
But for purely ripping a facing down and kissing hull with a HYT or TS, go quantum.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Pick one. It's not that difficult.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
2 advanced fleet photon torpedos
quad cannons
and a fleet dual phaser cannon
in the back
2 advanced fleet phaser turrets
kinetic cutting beam
I'm still tweaking my loadout, but I go with x2 phaser relays and x2 photon detonation assy in my TAC console slots
With x2 PWO doffs, I keep up a fairly steady rate of fire with the torpedos
My theory is that having multiple torpedos in flight toward the target while Im shooting at a shield facing increases the chances of a torpedo hit on unshielded hull.
I haven't parced this or anything, but it seems to work fairly well in PVE.
I also have the full Omega space set (for the tetryon glider) and a zero point console (the romulan one that increases crit chance)
Photons seem to work better for me, but I don't claim to be optimized or min/maxed
1. Get the PWOs 3. You can get them at the BOFF Omega store.
2. PVE: Use the Romulan and Omega Torp in the Front with you Phasers. I wouldn't bother with the tac consoles. Use those 5 tac consoles for the phaser relays.
3. PVP: Use Quantum. Talented PVP players can use your plasma torps against you. Use 2 Quantum's up front for PVE.
4. Set. I am using the Adapted Maco/KHG 2 piece set for increased kinetic damage. This buffs your cutting beam, and the 2 torps. I would use the Romulan engine. Gives a 26% increase in attack patterns. If you are a tac and use Alpha and Beta strike this is pretty huge.
No, they haven't been nerfed "recently."
If you insist on a torpedo here are the ones that I use on my B'rel torpedo boat because I think they are the better launchers out there:
Fore:
- Quantum (great damage vs cooldown you can get)
- Bio-Neural Warhead (the turret helps keep shields weakened and when it hits it can do a substantial amounts of damage....I once did a non-critical of 138k damage with a properly timed alpha strike)
- Breen Cluster (can decimate hull of most players, even without a critical hit)
- Hargh'Peng (one of the fastest torpedoes, radiation DOT, and a secondary explosion)
Aft:
- Romulan Hyper-Plasma (decent plasma damage with a fairly good plasma DOT....I used to use the Omega Plasma for the high plasma DOT, but it was interfering with the firing cycles of my Chroniton torpedo)
- Chroniton torpedo (nice little turn/speed debuff so my slower torpedoes could catch up to my target)
All of these torpedoes help me solo most players I've encountered in Ker'rat. But the 3 torpedoes that usually finish off my targets are (in order of most kills):
1) Hargh'Peng - the secondary explosion usually finishes off my target after all of the other torpedoes have had their way with my target.
2) Breen Cluster - if this thing doesn't take out my target, it usually brings their hull low enough for my other torpedoes to finish them off.
3) Bio-Neural Warhead - massive damage can take out my target or at least do some great damage to the hull.
How are you using the Hyper-plasma torpedo launcher? Which torpedo BOFF abilities are you using? PVP or PVE?
I ask because Hyper-plasma torps put out the MOST long range (8km+) DPS against stationary ESTF structures like gates and generators. It is also a required item for using the Romulan Experimental Beam Array's Hyper-flux firing mode -- this is the most powerful player-accessible DOT at over 5k/sec for 10 seconds when used correctly. I use this set-up on my fleet advanced escort, and it almost always takes 1st place in fleet actions for a steady stream of purples to sell on Exchange.
There is only one difference between Quantums and Photons. Quantums Fire slower and do more damage... Photons fire faster do slightly less damage. They have the same DPS if you were to compare 2 of similar quality and modifiers. IE: Fleet Advanced [Acc][Dmg]x3.
So here's how to decide between Quantums and Photons: Is your ship's facing with Torpedos(fore or aft) facing your target a majority of the time? If so Photons are your best bet as you will hit more often and take advantage of shield facings being down more often.
Are you flying a cruiser that does NOT always face your torpedo launcher at the enemy? Quantums then, are your best bet as when you DO fire Torpedos... they'll hit harder.
So yes, quantums do more DAMAGE per shot, but NOT more DPS. Also Photons fire much more often with the Projectile Weapons DOFFs than Quantums do. I've done extensive testing with Both and found that the Photons I could fire pretty much every 1-2 seconds and the Quantums I could only fire every 3-5. This testing was done with 3 VR Projectile Weapons Officers. I have a few fleetmates who ALSO have done this testing... and have found extremely similar results. Also I'm not sure the OP is going for a torpedo boat build or just a type of torpedo to use in general.
Lets put it this way. the Z-store variety of the T'varo Light Warbird has a cloak that allows you to fire torps while cloaked.
So i want to turn the thing into as hard core of a torpedo boat as I can.
can someone here tell me a precise build for it that will optimize the speed I could dump torpedos out? Any empty slots, I will PROBABLY fill in with tetryon cannons... for higher shield DPS when i'm not cloaked.
It doesn't really need to stand on its own. the idea would be for it to support in PVE(once and a while PVP) and hit hard when shields go down.
need a build(lay it out really clear ELI5 type thing) so I know what I'm working towards at launch of LoR
A lot depends on personal preference, the type of ship or even the type of mission.
Ask 100 people and you'll get as many replies as there are types of torpedoes.
There are several torpedo build topics to be found. usually they include Rapid Fire Transphasic, Quantum, breen cluster and harpeng.
LoR will bring some new and unique torpedoes though and at this time it is too early to say which setup is best.
If you're looking to make use of the EBC, your best starting point is going to be to hunt down dedicated B'Rel retrofit torpedo setups in the Klingon subforums. Functionally speaking, a BoP using an EBC is fundamentally different (and has to be approached differently) than a non-EBC carrying ship that's putting torpedoes downrange concurrently with energy weapon fire.
Typically that involves a lot more mixing and matching of the various "specialty" torpedoes (Hargh, Breen Cluster, even Hyper-Plasmas in some cases) to make the most of cheesing out the torpedo GCD and maximizing PWO procs.
Yes, and no. Unfortunately the way STO treats kinetic damage, pure torpedoes aren't the most amazing thing to behold.
That's not to say that they can't be made to work, but the learning curve is substantially higher than many other builds.
I'm thinking an end game build designed to work with other people.
Let an escort put out a powerful alpha strike and drop their facing shield, and then have me waiting(cloaked and ignored) to unleash a fury of torpedoes in an invisible inferno of an "omega strike"
The two would need to work in sync with each other, and ideally in a 3 ship team(alpha strike escort, a sci fit to keep shields down, and me as an omega strike torpedo boat)
I have a similarly concept built armitage, that uses a couple tetryon arrays and advanced delta flyers, and once shields go down it's devastating, so i thought this may work well in a similar fashion, just with some team work
It is true that kinetic damage does little to shields, but with a good setup you throw a lot of damage on an opponent.
- Transphasic damage through with regular and cluster
- DoT with harpengs
- Normal damage with Quantum
After you go past your opponent (with theta radiation cloak dump) leave the direct danger zone with mines/ tricobalt HY as goodbye present.
Personally i have used this set on my mirror escort with great success and with the element of surprise from an enhanced BC it can be even more effective.
If you're willing to run two tubes, go photon with as much crit as possible. I was regularly able to crit for 40k back when I used them. Sometimes around 60k if there were a lot of DR debuffs going around.
Going for a proper torpedo boat(no energy weapons) is a different ball-game. You've got three 'good' setups: plasmas, transphasics, and exotic launchers. The main trick to them is to get specialty launchers(omega, cluster, hargh, etc.) and mix them with normal launchers - so that they do not share cooldown timers. This lets you reliably double-dip in ways that you cannot with launchers like Photons or Quantums.
I've got a Chel Grett loaded in full transphasics that has even more spike potential than my Tactical Bortas - it can outright instagib ships with their shields still up. Plasma is even better if you can get a shield facing down, but you can still tear through elite cubes with plasma fire and bleedthrough alone in about the time it would take a 'decent' DHC escort to. It is also a wonderful setup for science ships to not have to waste power on weapons(and gravity well compliments the slower, AE-tastic heavy projectiles).
As I understand it, theoretical max for a single self-buffed photon crit is somewhere in the 80-110k range (if going with CritDx3, full superior Rommie Operative, maxed skills, full torpedo consoles, etc).
Not really pertinent to a B'Rel/Tvaro setup, but just figured I'd toss it out there.
1. Destructible: Once fired either in HYT or even normal single fire, these torps can be targetted and destroyed before hitting their target. In HYT fire, shot for shot, they tend to hit very hard. They also tend to travel slow. In PVE, there are certain NPCs that use AOE attacks, like FAW, Torp Spread, etc., and they will easily knock out these targetable torps, but they are few in the game that do so. In PVP, this is a very major concern because AOE attacks such as CSV and FAW, Torp Spread, and lots and lots and lots of Grav Wells will easily destroy them. I've seen ships decked out with the fancy Romulan Plasma Torps, which in PVE rock like no other. But one Grav Well or FAW, or CSV, or whatever, and the entire stream of torpedoes were wiped out like you would squish an ant. Between all these types of Torps, the Breen Cluster can be fairly successful and is a sight to behold if you're specced & equipped for them. And a warning: If you're too close when releasing one of these weapons and they impact something, you will get splash damage. Examples: Any Plasma Torpedo variant, Tricobalt Launcher, Breen Cluster.
2. Non-Destructible: Once these torps are fired, they can't be knocked out of space. Either they hit or they miss. That's it. They tend to travel faster than the Destructible variety. They have a lower base damage as a whole, but that can be deceiving with the Photons and most of all the Quantums. This group also has the "utility" torps such as Transphasic (low base damage but higher shield bleed through) and Chronitons (chance for turn and speed debuff).
Now, what's best? Again, it greatly depends, and the biggest factor is what you intend to do when playing with your ship.
PVE? The full spectrum of torps is viable. PVP? Unless you're using the Breen Clusters, I recommend avoiding the destructible torpedoes.
I've played with B'Rel BOP Torpedo Boats, so I've toyed with many of them. My positive takes.
- Quantums - The most reliable, all around torpedo. Fast travelling also. Very popular esp. in PVP since Quantum HYT at the slightest, briefest shield opening will bring massive devastation. Possible due to the high base damage of the non-destructible torpedoes, though it takes longer to reload. This is the torpedo you want for spiking damage at the most critical time.
- Photons - Definitely not as sexy as alot of torpedoes out there. Moderate but reliable damage that will be felt if you get them through. Slower travel time than Quantums. But easily the fastest reloading torpedo with at least moderate damage. Quantums steal alot of glory, but if you fire torpedoes alot, and you want constant availability, Photons seem to always be ready every time I need them and look down.
- Chronitons - Primarily a PVP'er's weapon, and even then, only a few use it. So-so damage. If they hit bare hull, GREAT, that's a bonus. But if you are using Chronitons, what you are really after is the speed & movement debuff with a successful proc. This is a controller's weapon, and can be a big deal to negate defense bonuses that are attained with fast movement, namely Escorts. I never cared by how much damage I did with Chronitons, but what I was truly wanting was the debuff. In certain builds and combinations, these are nasty. For example: Your ship's Chroniton Torpedoes in conjunction with Adv.Danube / Adv.Orion Interceptors which each shuttle / fighter having their own Chroniton Torps. You focus your combined attacks on a single target, namely an Escort, to constantly pepper them with movement debuffs. It's an even nastier combination that can be used by the KDF since the Adv.Orion Interceptors count as the more fragile fighters, and there can be many, many of them swarming a target spamming Chronitons, compared to the fewer in number Adv.Danubes, and the interceptors are easily the fastest moving hangar units in the game. There are ways to negate the debuff, but you have to use special abilities and such to get away from the effects. But it does not change that they are still being peppered every moment with Chroniton spam. This gives the Escort other things to worry about, i.e. survival instead of unleashing deadly firepower at will. This in turn, especially with the debuff applied, makes him easy for others to kill. With Chronitons, I never cared about the state of the target's shielding. The ONLY thing a cared about was how soon can I apply the debuffs, and how much I can reapply the debuff in a period of time.
- Hargh'Peng - Okay damage for a single fire torpedo that does not get a boost from BOFF abilities like HYT or TS. The real reason you get these torpedoes is the radiation damage. There's a small DOT applied on a successful hit. After several seconds, a radiation explosion emanates from the target, inflicting good hull damage past the shields and an AOE that harms other nearby targets. Great if you have targets bunched up via abilities like Grav Well.
- Breen Cluster - The sole destructible torpedo I heartily endorse. Just before impact, this weapon breaks up into many "mines" (but still draw torpedo damage bonus, not mines, IIRC). This also does great damage behind the shields. Excellent weapon for cracking through strong shielding or as a "finisher." Has a very long cooldown though, just like Tricobalts. Of significant note, to increase damage, you need "Variable Geometry Detonators" to boost them (mine damage, not torp) .
- Bio-Neural Warhead - Destructible torpedo but hits very, very hard. Based on Tricobalt weapon damage. It also has a point defense turret as it travels to the target, and it takes several shots to destroy it, unlike things like Tricobalt and certain Plasma Torps. Succesful use of this weapon in PVP takes some finesse. Simply firing it at the first opportunity will not do. Firing it from long range is a waste and will be easily seen and countered in PVP. At the same token, it has a minimum firing range of several km, something like 4-5km. Too close to the target, and you cannot fire. Personally, the optimal firing range is about that 4-5km range for less travel time. Also, it is vitally important NOT to mount Bio-Neurals in an aft station. If you're thinking of using this weapon like an Aft torpedo attack as you make an attack run and turn away, then fire the Bio-Neural, you will be disappointed. It fires FORWARD when released, and THEN makes a slow 180 degree turn back to the target you intended. The annoying thing if you want to save a forward weapon slot and see if the aft torpedo can be used at a forward target because of this, is that you cannot fire this aft mounted weapon that fires forward, at a forward target. This is a weapon that requires alot of babysitting to properly use, but it is highly rewarding. Of note, Bio-Neurals are fairly slow moving, so an Escort that is not tied down will easily get away. Bio-Neurals are a great weapon for nuking a slow target like Cruisers and certain Science Vessels.
- Transphasic / Rapid Reload Transphasic - In the vast majority of builds, even among Torpedo Boat builds, I do NOT recommend these weapons. It has good bleedthrough %, but the very major problem is by far the lowest base damage of torpedoes in the entire game. 40% of that damage gets through, and in the end for most builds, that's just not enough. The ONLY way I can see going with these weapons is a high TAC Console ship (4 at the very bare minimum) totally dedicated to Transphasic Torpedo Damage. On top of this, using either KHG / Adapted MACO 2-piece space set damage for the +25% generic torpedo damage boost, OR the 2-piece Breen space set bonus of +30% Transphasic Projectile Damage boost. THEN, on top of all this, putting as many possible skillpoints into whatever Torpedo-related Skillbox you can fill.
The only time I can make regular Transphasic / Rapid Reload Transphasics hit hard enough with any of my toons is on a 5 TAC Console Ship I was testing with, the Bortasqu' Tactical Cruiser (yes, a Bort Torpedo boat, which is INSANE, and I know the Feds have 5 TAC Console Escorts that can do this job way more effectively, but I used the 5 TAC Bortasqu' as a testbed for viability of Transphasics outside of the Breen Cluster). I had the Breen Set equipped for the +5% transphasic specific damage over the KHG set. I had 5 transphasic damage consoles, and slapped every skillpoint I can into torpedoes, forsaking any Energy Weapon skillboxes. It was only then with this very specific build that in PVP, I felt the damage was adequate. It will not wow you, but it does okay damage behind shields. Far better than it was in less Transphasic dedicated builds. The simple trick is to put everything and anything, and then some to boost the poor base damage for these weapons.
Small Trick: Obviously there are DOFF officers that cut down torpedo reload times. Every time a torpedo is fired, which is the key. A fast reloading torpedo like Photons firing repeatedly is a great way to cut down on the very long cooldowns of things like Triobalts, Bio-Neurals, and Breen Clusters.
The Bio-Neural, in a one on one game, can be picked off. But, if it's in a match with multiple people, they are harder to notice.
As far as I know, the projectile DOFF does not affect the cooldown on Bio-Neurals and Breen Clusters.
Let me verify in-game after my overeagerness with the Breen Clusters.
A very good note on the Bio-Neural. 1v1, it'll get easily knocked out. But in a team environment, its chances are better of sneaking in a good hit.
Breen cluster is a ~40 second CD with at 15 second copy CD (running 2 is good lol)
Bios are not affected by the proj doffs, but (unless cryptic changed it recently) they DO work with the Cluster. (I'll have to check on this one) as for the consoles, I'll have to check also as i only ever used a transphasic build on my Blockade runner retrofit. (PvE)
ps--I can confirm cynders post above, Breen cluster is 40 sec cd with 15 sec shared cd. I use one front and rear on my Fed cruiser. I didnt know it was torp bonus though, I will have to swap on a MACO set and see what I get from them.