Posted bye the OP: with the exception of the "being hit by torpedoes while cloaked" thing which is plain stupid.
This is Star Trek Online and there is almost 50 years of Star Trek information supporting this game. Before you make a post like this you should learn about Star Trek before you vent about something that you are completly wrong about. Watch Star Trek VI "The Undiscovered Country" and you will learn all about torpedo's that hit cloaked ships.
In STO the console that makes it possible to hit a cloaked ship with a torpedo is the "Ionized Gas Sensor" universal console.
This is canon, get over it.
As for the rest of the OPs "rant"...pffft...you dont like the BoP get another ship the KDF has LOTS to choose from and most of them are hard to kill 1v1.
However...there are numerous BoP Captains that trash Feds "at will" in a BoP...your fighting skills are...lacking...ask a seasoned BoP Captain for some tips on how to hone your PvP skills. They will help you out, the KDF hates one of their own getting a beat down by a Fed, ruins their He-Man image.
Hope this information was usefull...:P
We do not have 'lots' of end-game ships to choose from, especially 'viable' ones. Our raptors are not as good as Federation escorts in overall (though the Scourge is definitely a match). Our BoPs have limited viable uses (hit-and-run ambusher and sci-spammer/healer). We do have a fair amount of battlecruisers to pick from, but battlecruisers aren't for everybody and they have their limitations as well.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
I noticed the original post refered to kerrat, I think the poster just had to deal with a lot of jerks. I know I dealt with that while trying to grind that mission for dil at lower levels on both fed and klinks, jerks on both sides swarming me, sometimes to the point I couldn't even warp out when I got fed up with the situation. all my toons are at 50 now and I avoid kerrat like the plague. I can hold my own on all my toons in a 5v5 pvp match, but 10v1, not so much. I would just avoid the headache altogether.....btw, MY main klink lies a t5 B'Rel bop, and I think they ARE op to a degree. Just sayin.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The valiant crew of the U.S.S. Canth NX-92835-B
Soooooo you go to a 'war zone' to grind and expect to not get hassled because you are grinding?
Saying everyone else there are jerks because they killed you in an open PvP environment is just stupid!
KDF BoPs can fire while cloaked at T5.
Almost every Klink KDF ship cloaks.
LoR will balance the PvP factional game by giving feds more cloaking and battle cloaking options!
Go muffen cakes.!
There was a day, year, a long time ago where KDf owned in PvP and the only weapon feds had where to lay mines everywhere.
You should consider what's different between clock and battle cloak. After this you wont say stupid things like you said!
Part of the issue is that the BoP is simply not built to 'stay in the fight'.
That's not "part of the issue," its the design objective. BOPs are not for battle, they are for quick sudden strike. Its not supposed to be able to wander around taking on all others. No ship should be able to take on all others but instead should be good at a certain style of combat that can be leveraged to more or less success in all situations. Which is exactly what the BOP delivers.
so making everyone invisible is called balance lol
bind people fighting is always fun I guess :rolleyes:
If some ones ego such as the poster you responded too believes that they lost in combat only because of cloaking then they will see more cloaking as a balancer even when the fault lies with them and not their foe.
You know, I hardly see Defiant users take advantage of that cloak anymore.
For the opening Alpha? I still see it happen, though its hard to deny that the Defiant doesn't really need cloak considering how durable it is in the right hands.
Posted bye the OP: with the exception of the "being hit by torpedoes while cloaked" thing which is plain stupid.
This is Star Trek Online and there is almost 50 years of Star Trek information supporting this game.
Used once in a single movie. Now exists in STO as a single console with the same purpose.
The OP was complaining not on the ability of torpedoes to strike a cloaked craft so as the coding of the game that makes torpedoes follow and strike a cloaked ship (or any ship) well after the shot had been fired at them.
Its a graphical follow up to the shot itself already having been resolved and the animation for said attack not moving fast enough to conclude or having to catch up with a vessel that fled said attack.
Its how attacks operate in STO. What the OP is not realizing is that 9 times out of 10 that torpedo attack is not going to hurt him at all if he takes time to buff against it in the middle of trying to cloak and avoid it.
That's not "part of the issue," its the design objective. BOPs are not for battle, they are for quick sudden strike. Its not supposed to be able to wander around taking on all others. No ship should be able to take on all others but instead should be good at a certain style of combat that can be leveraged to more or less success in all situations. Which is exactly what the BOP delivers.
There is nothing wrong with the BOP
Actually yes and no, to this as well. The BoP is designed for dogpile tactics of decloaking, attacking and escaping into cloak while another BoP in the squad decloaks, attacks and escapes into cloak to be followed by yet another BoP doing the same.
BoPs can alpha strike well and those masters of the BoP can do it very well, but the BoP is best played as part of a 3-man team to gang-up on a single target.
Actually yes and no, to this as well. The BoP is designed for dogpile tactics of decloaking, attacking and escaping into cloak while another BoP in the squad decloaks, attacks and escapes into cloak to be followed by yet another BoP doing the same.
BoPs can alpha strike well and those masters of the BoP can do it very well, but the BoP is best played as part of a 3-man team to gang-up on a single target.
A pack of BOPs is one of the options that it is very good at. Its also effective as a DPS support-ship in general. Pop out of hiding and provides supplemental DPS to a bait ship like a battlecruiser, nothing better than a BOP that is agile enough to get into position for surprise buttsex when the Fed thinks he's about to win a freebie.
For almost 4 years Feds are now trying to get their cruisers an decent turn rate, not better than klingons but decent. And every. single. time. klinkers come and blabber on about why their cruisers should remain the only fun ones and that fed should stfu.
Now here is a bunch of klingons complaining that their cloak is **** compared to the romulans cloak....
For almost 4 years Feds are now trying to get their cruisers an decent turn rate, not better than klingons but decent. And every. single. time. klinkers come and blabber on about why their cruisers should remain the only fun ones and that fed should stfu.
Now here is a bunch of klingons complaining that their cloak is **** compared to the romulans cloak....
ahh..... karma....
Fed ships in general have worse turn rates than Klingon or Romulan. At least in SFB. No idea if SFB is considered 'factual' for the space combat in STO, but it seems that way.
So maybe it wasn't about 'fun', but instead about keeping the differences between the races/factions intact.
The b'rel retrofit should have that fire torps while cloaked removed. 1 of the worse abilities in the game. If that so called 'special' was exchanged for something more beneficial. Like extra hull, shield, extra aft weapon slot. Anything it would improve that bop greatly
This is Star Trek Online and there is almost 50 years of Star Trek information supporting this game. Before you make a post like this you should learn about Star Trek before you vent about something that you are completly wrong about. Watch Star Trek VI "The Undiscovered Country" and you will learn all about torpedo's that hit cloaked ships.
In STO the console that makes it possible to hit a cloaked ship with a torpedo is the "Ionized Gas Sensor" universal console.
This is canon, get over it.
As for the rest of the OPs "rant"...pffft...you dont like the BoP get another ship the KDF has LOTS to choose from and most of them are hard to kill 1v1.
However...there are numerous BoP Captains that trash Feds "at will" in a BoP...your fighting skills are...lacking...ask a seasoned BoP Captain for some tips on how to hone your PvP skills. They will help you out, the KDF hates one of their own getting a beat down by a Fed, ruins their He-Man image.
Hope this information was usefull...:P
Little lady(?) I have been watching Trek since 1990 when I was a wee lad and have seen most episodes half a dozen times+ (I know it is sad). The only time where the torpedo tracked cloaked ships are in ST VI. This torpedo was a hack that Spock and McCoy put together and is already in STO. There may have been 1 - 2 other occasions involving exotic tech but in every episode it generally stated that cloaked ships are not vulnerable to phaser / torpedo fire except if hit accidentally. Coincidentally, this is already in game.
As has been said this is a limitation of the engine where the "hit" is registered before the animation is actually complete. Also it is not just torpedoes but "phasers" - fire at will, and cannon fire which tracks you even if the player can't see the cloaked ship. Also, mines have been known to "pop" ships see DS9 Season 4 with Klinks. But this was a pure accident. In this game mines actually track and follow ships at faster than my BoP can outrun them in battle.
And yes, I do buff after cloak or during cloak. The problem is getting hit 1-2 secs after the buff has worn off because the torpedoes are relatively slow and seemingly have unlimited range. Anyways, my complaint is NOT that BoP are far from overpowered. They are but my compaint is actually <drum roll>
> Fed players complaining about BoP. We sacrifice a lot for the alpha strike + BC and now
1) Most PvP players can easily mitigate the impact especially with rep passives
2) Feds will get the same abilities and/or better with boffs and racial triat
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
What confuses me is, if the BoP is so bad, why the frak do you use it?
Why does it prove so effective?
With everything else Klingons can bring that Feds don't have, drains galore for one, why do some insist on acting the victim?
Even I know a BoPs biggest strengths are working in packs and battle cloaks.
I for one can't wait for LoR and the field levelling it brings in regards to cloaks.
I still enjoy it because it allows me to survive a little longer against P2W consoles, P2W lockbox ships, carrier spam and all other kinds of annoying uber powered setups. I also like hit and run tactics which allow me to be successful some times.
The real problem is that PvP is completely unbalanced in this game. And no it is not just builds and skill points. I would gladly give up my BoP BC if we got balanced PvP where the best build, ship/gear/passives/etc. can't do more than 50% damage than the basic MKX set.
I suppose if we had a reverse bolster system that downgraded everyone to MK X white gear and stripped out all extra PvE buffs / gear than I would be super happy.
Let the super skilled own. I would be ecstatic in such an environment.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
My fleet often runs basic white gear only PvP, we also run it in Commander Only level ships. You'd be surprised how much more fun and varied builds get when they have to move away from the set bonuses and lock box shenanigans.
The b'rel retrofit should have that fire torps while cloaked removed. 1 of the worse abilities in the game. If that so called 'special' was exchanged for something more beneficial. Like extra hull, shield, extra aft weapon slot. Anything it would improve that bop greatly
No thanks, I love enhanced battle cloak and its why I bought the retrofit and fleet versions. It takes big investment in time and money to get it geared, but I can do great in pvp and pve with it just using torps, mines and sci abilities while cloaked and hardly die. Even after tricobalt mine nerf its still easy to solo cubes on elite with it, just need to use more torps in addition to mines.
It is probably one of the hardest ships to learn, but very fun when you can make it work.
My fleet often runs basic white gear only PvP, we also run it in Commander Only level ships. You'd be surprised how much more fun and varied builds get when they have to move away from the set bonuses and lock box shenanigans.
Interesting! How does this work? Do you organize with other fleets and how do you verify it? You have peeked my attention. Please do share.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Fed ships in general have worse turn rates than Klingon or Romulan. At least in SFB. No idea if SFB is considered 'factual' for the space combat in STO, but it seems that way.
So maybe it wasn't about 'fun', but instead about keeping the differences between the races/factions intact.
Just a thought.
You might want to notice that feds got proper compensation for their sluggishness in sfb...
No thanks, I love enhanced battle cloak and its why I bought the retrofit and fleet versions. It takes big investment in time and money to get it geared, but I can do great in pvp and pve with it just using torps, mines and sci abilities while cloaked and hardly die. Even after tricobalt mine nerf its still easy to solo cubes on elite with it, just need to use more torps in addition to mines.
It is probably one of the hardest ships to learn, but very fun when you can make it work.
I was curious about the B'Rel too. I have seen some skilled B'Rel pilots flying hit and run tactics with torpedoes. It is pretty hard though with science ships and tychons rift and other powers.
We just got Tier IV so I would consider the C-store version. Can I equip with 3-4 transpacific torpedoes with 3 tac consoles. Will it allow me to fire more than 1 torpedo at once?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The thing I am *so* looking forward to when the LOR pack comes out is to be killing alot of fools using Battle Cloaks at the inappropriate times. So much BC-noobs will be flying, the hunting of these "supposed" hunters will be the new pastime of the Klingon Empire.
BCs are nice, but alot of the fools out there think it's the end-all-be-all of this game. And my torpedoes will be eagerly waiting for you to hit that "Cloak" button.
The thing I am *so* looking forward to when the LOR pack comes out is to be killing alot of fools using Battle Cloaks at the inappropriate times. So much BC-noobs will be flying, the hunting of these "supposed" hunters will be the new pastime of the Klingon Empire.
BCs are nice, but alot of the fools out there think it's the end-all-be-all of this game. And my torpedoes will be eagerly waiting for you to hit that "Cloak" button.
I will be there teasing the BC "sheep in wolf's clothing" Feds turned Romulans. The tears will be sweet indeed. Until Cryptic nerfs the Klinks and buffs Romulans to placate Fed care bears.
-- "Umadbro"
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
What are we the scum of the universe? I have spent the equivalent $20 a month subscription for the last 9 months. I am not freeloader. All I am asking is for Feds to stop complaining in Kerrat.
IF some one keeps getting blown up by KDF who are alpha striking from cloak, I seriously doubt they're going to the forums, seeing a post by some one alpha striking from cloak and saying it's under powered, and saying "Oh, you know what? That guy's right! My experience is totally invalid, and besides, how could it possibly be in his interests to spin the situation in a way that favors his faction?"
If your goal is to stop feds complaining, then the best course of action might be to make a fed character for PvP, and demonstrate your superior skills. Don't tell people that BoP alpha striking is weak. Show them.
IF some one keeps getting blown up by KDF who are alpha striking from cloak, I seriously doubt they're going to the forums, seeing a post by some one alpha striking from cloak and saying it's under powered, and saying "Oh, you know what? That guy's right! My experience is totally invalid, and besides, how could it possibly be in his interests to spin the situation in a way that favors his faction?"
If your goal is to stop feds complaining, then the best course of action might be to make a fed character for PvP, and demonstrate your superior skills. Don't tell people that BoP alpha striking is weak. Show them.
Underpowered NOT = weak. I don't need to make a Fed toon ... I have 2. Just go to Kerrat and watch the alpha strikes. Unless the target is a noob ... they always fail 1 vs 1. Go see for youself ... don't take my word!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Underpowered NOT = weak. I don't need to make a Fed toon ... I have 2. Just go to Kerrat and watch the alpha strikes. Unless the target is a noob ... they always fail 1 vs 1. Go see for youself ... don't take my word!
I don't care one way or the other, since I don't PvP, but I don't think any one you're intending to convince is coming to this thread and being convinced.
Instead it looks more like the common MMO occurrence of some one who is using something OP, then bending over backwards to convince people that it's actually weak.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I can't wait for LoR to totally vindicate my position. And yes ... people who don't PvP can't really add to this discussion ... funny name calling aside.
You don't need BC to faceroll PvE. In fact it actually gets in the way. It is why I feel bad for all Klink BoP who struggle in STF while I decimate everything in my defiant.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I really don't have a horse in this race, but before using a word you should really know what it means. When people say underpowered in MMO's...they most of the time mean weaker than normal (Overpowered being the polar opposite ). lol Unless I misunderstood what you were saying with that.
Comments
We do not have 'lots' of end-game ships to choose from, especially 'viable' ones. Our raptors are not as good as Federation escorts in overall (though the Scourge is definitely a match). Our BoPs have limited viable uses (hit-and-run ambusher and sci-spammer/healer). We do have a fair amount of battlecruisers to pick from, but battlecruisers aren't for everybody and they have their limitations as well.
The valiant crew of the U.S.S. Canth NX-92835-B
Saying everyone else there are jerks because they killed you in an open PvP environment is just stupid!
You should consider what's different between clock and battle cloak. After this you wont say stupid things like you said!
That's not "part of the issue," its the design objective. BOPs are not for battle, they are for quick sudden strike. Its not supposed to be able to wander around taking on all others. No ship should be able to take on all others but instead should be good at a certain style of combat that can be leveraged to more or less success in all situations. Which is exactly what the BOP delivers.
There is nothing wrong with the BOP
If some ones ego such as the poster you responded too believes that they lost in combat only because of cloaking then they will see more cloaking as a balancer even when the fault lies with them and not their foe.
R.I.P
For the opening Alpha? I still see it happen, though its hard to deny that the Defiant doesn't really need cloak considering how durable it is in the right hands.
R.I.P
Used once in a single movie. Now exists in STO as a single console with the same purpose.
The OP was complaining not on the ability of torpedoes to strike a cloaked craft so as the coding of the game that makes torpedoes follow and strike a cloaked ship (or any ship) well after the shot had been fired at them.
Its a graphical follow up to the shot itself already having been resolved and the animation for said attack not moving fast enough to conclude or having to catch up with a vessel that fled said attack.
Its how attacks operate in STO. What the OP is not realizing is that 9 times out of 10 that torpedo attack is not going to hurt him at all if he takes time to buff against it in the middle of trying to cloak and avoid it.
R.I.P
Actually yes and no, to this as well. The BoP is designed for dogpile tactics of decloaking, attacking and escaping into cloak while another BoP in the squad decloaks, attacks and escapes into cloak to be followed by yet another BoP doing the same.
BoPs can alpha strike well and those masters of the BoP can do it very well, but the BoP is best played as part of a 3-man team to gang-up on a single target.
R.I.P
For almost 4 years Feds are now trying to get their cruisers an decent turn rate, not better than klingons but decent. And every. single. time. klinkers come and blabber on about why their cruisers should remain the only fun ones and that fed should stfu.
Now here is a bunch of klingons complaining that their cloak is **** compared to the romulans cloak....
ahh..... karma....
Fed ships in general have worse turn rates than Klingon or Romulan. At least in SFB. No idea if SFB is considered 'factual' for the space combat in STO, but it seems that way.
So maybe it wasn't about 'fun', but instead about keeping the differences between the races/factions intact.
Just a thought.
Little lady(?) I have been watching Trek since 1990 when I was a wee lad and have seen most episodes half a dozen times+ (I know it is sad). The only time where the torpedo tracked cloaked ships are in ST VI. This torpedo was a hack that Spock and McCoy put together and is already in STO. There may have been 1 - 2 other occasions involving exotic tech but in every episode it generally stated that cloaked ships are not vulnerable to phaser / torpedo fire except if hit accidentally. Coincidentally, this is already in game.
As has been said this is a limitation of the engine where the "hit" is registered before the animation is actually complete. Also it is not just torpedoes but "phasers" - fire at will, and cannon fire which tracks you even if the player can't see the cloaked ship. Also, mines have been known to "pop" ships see DS9 Season 4 with Klinks. But this was a pure accident. In this game mines actually track and follow ships at faster than my BoP can outrun them in battle.
And yes, I do buff after cloak or during cloak. The problem is getting hit 1-2 secs after the buff has worn off because the torpedoes are relatively slow and seemingly have unlimited range. Anyways, my complaint is NOT that BoP are far from overpowered. They are but my compaint is actually <drum roll>
> Fed players complaining about BoP. We sacrifice a lot for the alpha strike + BC and now
1) Most PvP players can easily mitigate the impact especially with rep passives
2) Feds will get the same abilities and/or better with boffs and racial triat
- Judge Aaron Satie
I still enjoy it because it allows me to survive a little longer against P2W consoles, P2W lockbox ships, carrier spam and all other kinds of annoying uber powered setups. I also like hit and run tactics which allow me to be successful some times.
The real problem is that PvP is completely unbalanced in this game. And no it is not just builds and skill points. I would gladly give up my BoP BC if we got balanced PvP where the best build, ship/gear/passives/etc. can't do more than 50% damage than the basic MKX set.
I suppose if we had a reverse bolster system that downgraded everyone to MK X white gear and stripped out all extra PvE buffs / gear than I would be super happy.
Let the super skilled own. I would be ecstatic in such an environment.
- Judge Aaron Satie
My fleet often runs basic white gear only PvP, we also run it in Commander Only level ships. You'd be surprised how much more fun and varied builds get when they have to move away from the set bonuses and lock box shenanigans.
No thanks, I love enhanced battle cloak and its why I bought the retrofit and fleet versions. It takes big investment in time and money to get it geared, but I can do great in pvp and pve with it just using torps, mines and sci abilities while cloaked and hardly die. Even after tricobalt mine nerf its still easy to solo cubes on elite with it, just need to use more torps in addition to mines.
It is probably one of the hardest ships to learn, but very fun when you can make it work.
Interesting! How does this work? Do you organize with other fleets and how do you verify it? You have peeked my attention. Please do share.
- Judge Aaron Satie
You might want to notice that feds got proper compensation for their sluggishness in sfb...
I was curious about the B'Rel too. I have seen some skilled B'Rel pilots flying hit and run tactics with torpedoes. It is pretty hard though with science ships and tychons rift and other powers.
We just got Tier IV so I would consider the C-store version. Can I equip with 3-4 transpacific torpedoes with 3 tac consoles. Will it allow me to fire more than 1 torpedo at once?
- Judge Aaron Satie
BCs are nice, but alot of the fools out there think it's the end-all-be-all of this game. And my torpedoes will be eagerly waiting for you to hit that "Cloak" button.
I will be there teasing the BC "sheep in wolf's clothing" Feds turned Romulans. The tears will be sweet indeed. Until Cryptic nerfs the Klinks and buffs Romulans to placate Fed care bears.
-- "Umadbro"
- Judge Aaron Satie
IF some one keeps getting blown up by KDF who are alpha striking from cloak, I seriously doubt they're going to the forums, seeing a post by some one alpha striking from cloak and saying it's under powered, and saying "Oh, you know what? That guy's right! My experience is totally invalid, and besides, how could it possibly be in his interests to spin the situation in a way that favors his faction?"
If your goal is to stop feds complaining, then the best course of action might be to make a fed character for PvP, and demonstrate your superior skills. Don't tell people that BoP alpha striking is weak. Show them.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Oh wait, you're serious? Sorry. Ahem.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Underpowered NOT = weak. I don't need to make a Fed toon ... I have 2. Just go to Kerrat and watch the alpha strikes. Unless the target is a noob ... they always fail 1 vs 1. Go see for youself ... don't take my word!
- Judge Aaron Satie
I don't care one way or the other, since I don't PvP, but I don't think any one you're intending to convince is coming to this thread and being convinced.
Instead it looks more like the common MMO occurrence of some one who is using something OP, then bending over backwards to convince people that it's actually weak.
- Judge Aaron Satie
You don't need BC to faceroll PvE. In fact it actually gets in the way. It is why I feel bad for all Klink BoP who struggle in STF while I decimate everything in my defiant.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I really don't have a horse in this race, but before using a word you should really know what it means. When people say underpowered in MMO's...they most of the time mean weaker than normal (Overpowered being the polar opposite