The episode establishes the galaxy is the smaller, more nimble ship.
So, 6 is the number this game gave the Galaxy.
the problem is 6 is wrong, no none of the cruisers should have a worse turn rate then 8. if that were the case, the d'deridex could have slightly lower maneuverability and still not be horrible to use.
the problem is 6 is wrong, no none of the cruisers should have a worse turn rate then 8. if that were the case, the d'deridex could have slightly lower maneuverability and still not be horrible to use.
Very true, hopefully the developers will come to this realization eventually.
the problem is 6 is wrong, no none of the cruisers should have a worse turn rate then 8. if that were the case, the d'deridex could have slightly lower maneuverability and still not be horrible to use.
Did you have a chance to try a D'D with and RCS console and DHC before tribble was wiped? The changes could make it pretty manageble I'm hoping.
\Gaining less than 11 thousand Tac options is probably worth losing over 8 trillion options to some...
...even if it means losing DPS.
Note: It's not a case of saying all options are equal.
Well there are more total possible combinations with the previous layout, But I meant the new layout has more total options in the sense that you can still slot any of the individual boff abilities the old layout had, you just might not be able to slot all the exact same ones together at the same rank it was at before. So yes it loses possible cominations, but gains acess to a new ability APO1, and can still slot any ability it had acess to previously.
Did you have a chance to try a D'D with and RCS console and DHC before tribble was wiped? The changes could make it pretty manageble I'm hoping.
it was hard to get a hold of any on tribble. i did get a d'deridex before and use it with DHCs, doing the sorties on elite, not missing a single transport ever and all that, with the build i came up with it was good enough to do that. it was only usable thanks to how insanely good EPtE is. even with 4 turn consoles, at level cap, with the 5 base turn rate it wont be turning better then 20turn. i hope i can still use it like a DHC battle cruiser, but i have my doubts. being starved for eng station slots, improving this things turn rate now will be that much harder. you will need EPtE on all the time, and EPtS of course, so the thing aint usable without damage control doffs, or using the LT and LTC eng for 2 copies of AtB with tech doffs. it can just barely pull that off, not well enough for me to be terribly comfortable with.
my kdf cruisers will be jaw droping when LoR drops though, its not hard to get them in the 40 turn range, they can basically replace escorts with 2 AtB builds. with spiky, bleedy super strong pressure wile out tanking enemy escort damage and dealing more damage then they can deal with. wile keeping up with them in a dog fight even better then befor.
The new bridge officer layout for D'Deridex is GOOD. Leave it the Gre'thor alone Cryptic! I do NOT want a D'Deridex to be a stuck up fake as Riker's mustache cousin to a useless Galaxy. The ships are utterly different, they've been made utterly different, and it FITS the description of a D'Deridex quite well. Do not change perfection.
it was hard to get a hold of any on tribble. i did get a d'deridex before and use it with DHCs, doing the sorties on elite, not missing a single transport ever and all that, with the build i came up with it was good enough to do that. it was only usable thanks to how insanely good EPtE is. even with 4 turn consoles, at level cap, with the 5 base turn rate it wont be turning better then 20turn. i hope i can still use it like a DHC battle cruiser, but i have my doubts. being starved for eng station slots, improving this things turn rate now will be that much harder. you will need EPtE on all the time, and EPtS of course, so the thing aint usable without damage control doffs, or using the LT and LTC eng for 2 copies of AtB with tech doffs. it can just barely pull that off, not well enough for me to be terribly comfortable with.
my kdf cruisers will be jaw droping when LoR drops though, its not hard to get them in the 40 turn range, they can basically replace escorts with 2 AtB builds. with spiky, bleedy super strong pressure wile out tanking enemy escort damage and dealing more damage then they can deal with. wile keeping up with them in a dog fight even better then befor.
It might also need APO1 and a tractor, I think I will try it like that and use aux2bat build.
40 turn rate sounds fun for KDF cruiser, looks like I will try a K'tinga soon. Too bad they won't let Romulans use it anymore though so I could have it as the TOS Romulan D-7.
It might also need APO1 and a tractor, I think I will try it like that and use aux2bat build.
40 turn rate sounds fun for KDF cruiser, looks like I will try a K'tinga soon. Too bad they won't let Romulans use it anymore though so I could have it as the TOS Romulan D-7.
5 turn console negvars with their low inertia and low impulse mod literally spin like a top
oh yes i know, i was daring someone to question that. theres a huge amount of evidence and basic trek science fundamentals that show the galaxy and d'deridex to be much more powerful then their smaller decedents.
oh yes i know, i was daring someone to question that. theres a huge amount of evidence and basic trek science fundamentals that show the galaxy and d'deridex to be much more powerful then their smaller decedents.
I uh...don't see it. Course, I'm the one that's always argu-stating that canon is a trap - because writers can do whatever they please and there's always plot devices lurking around for why certain things happen. The Galaxy could be epic here and fail there - depending on the story. Heck, it happened with the Sov in a shorter span of time...meh. The D'deridex was never a hero ship, so it always came off weak - and - by the time they put it next to the Defiant, it was silly weak (just like everything else - the Defiant stuff was some of the worst hero on a pedestal nonsense in the history of Trek...meh). The only real footage we have of the Mogai suggests that it sure as Hell doesn't have a turn rate as high as it does in STO. Mind you, Tin Man suggests that the D'deridex can turn much better than it does in STO as well.
I uh...don't see it. Course, I'm the one that's always argu-stating that canon is a trap - because writers can do whatever they please and there's always plot devices lurking around for why certain things happen. The Galaxy could be epic here and fail there - depending on the story. Heck, it happened with the Sov in a shorter span of time...meh. The D'deridex was never a hero ship, so it always came off weak - and - by the time they put it next to the Defiant, it was silly weak (just like everything else - the Defiant stuff was some of the worst hero on a pedestal nonsense in the history of Trek...meh). The only real footage we have of the Mogai suggests that it sure as Hell doesn't have a turn rate as high as it does in STO. Mind you, Tin Man suggests that the D'deridex can turn much better than it does in STO as well.
i tend to cherry coat it, but here's the basics of my evidence. ive never seen anything capable of disproving any of this
how phaser arrays work according to the tech manual, it basically means the longer an array is the better its best shot can be. the galaxy's longest arrays are twice as long as the sovereign's
the damage those phaser arrays did to the cube in q who, destroying more volume of the cube then there was volume of the D
this scene- https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM if a galaxy fired like this in rascals, yesterdays enterprise, generations, and the jem hadar, there would have been a decisive galaxy class victory, in a very short amount of time. thats why i say every loss or poor performance is plot railroading. it only kept up that level of fire for a few seconds, think of what it could do after a minute. you see the sov in nemesis fighting at 100% of its capability, constantly firing the entire time. a galaxy fighting like that would look like that time in the video that it fired on a loop every 5 seconds.
the d'deridex is a lightly armored alpha striker with the most powerful weapon bank of any alpha/beta quadrant ship.
it can remove 10% of a galaxy classes shields per shot, with a rate of fire of at least twice a second.
a d'deridex decloak alpha DESTROYED station DS9, in the episode visionary. sure its shields were down, but half a season later the station held off a klingon fleet.
the d'deridex gets shredded when they fly uncloaked, taking massively more damage per hit from weapon platforms when you take into account how large they are. they were being used incorrectly as ships of the line there.
the sov is a large heavy cruiser, replacing the excelsior and ambassador and other old cruisers. its no battleship. the mogai is a mid level ship based on lessens learned from a full scale war, were the d'deridex proved it wasn't suited for every situation, especially small target mop up and attrition fights.
thats why i say every loss or poor performance is plot railroading.
See, I don't just limit that to poor performances. I say the same thing happens with great performances as well. Canon cannot be trusted.
In regard to the Mogai...it's not that much smaller than the D'deridex. The wingspan of the D'deridex is placed somewhere between 700-1000m while the wingspan of the Valdore is around 900m. The Valdore design is based off of the D'deridex. Flip a Mogai, duct tape it to another Mogai with one on top of the other and give it a Roman helmet for the "saucer"... edit: Yes, the wings are not as wide even though they're not that much shorter. So it's not perfect...but then again, I said duct tape...c'mon.
The Sov is ~40m longer than the Gal. It's not as wide. It's nimbler, more streamlined. It's not the exploration (bring the family along) ship the Gal is...it actually is a battleship. Perhaps initially it was still more of a diplomatic gunboat back in the Insurrection days, but it had been refitted by the time of Nemesis. It went from 12 arrays/5 tubes to 16 arrays/10 tubes...2 of the tubes being twin tubes (so "12" tubes). The Gal had 10-14 arrays (older arrays, mind you) and 2 launchers capable of simultaneously launching 5 independently targeted torps...photons, mind you - compared to the quants/photons of the Sov.
My favorite Enterprise is the original Connie...doesn't mean I'd want to take it up against the Connie-A, much less any of the later ships.
Again, as for the Valdore/Mogai...Donatra didn't show up in a D'deridex to fight the Scimitar.
Time moved forward...things got better.
In many cases, they at least tried to be logical. DS9 was so bad they ridiculously overcompensated with the Defiant...it was just silly.
See, I don't just limit that to poor performances. I say the same thing happens with great performances as well. Canon cannot be trusted.
In regard to the Mogai...it's not that much smaller than the D'deridex. The wingspan of the D'deridex is placed somewhere between 700-1000m while the wingspan of the Valdore is around 900m. The Valdore design is based off of the D'deridex. Flip a Mogai, duct tape it to another Mogai with one on top of the other and give it a Roman helmet for the "saucer"... edit: Yes, the wings are not as wide even though they're not that much shorter. So it's not perfect...but then again, I said duct tape...c'mon.
The Sov is ~40m longer than the Gal. It's not as wide. It's nimbler, more streamlined. It's not the exploration (bring the family along) ship the Gal is...it actually is a battleship. Perhaps initially it was still more of a diplomatic gunboat back in the Insurrection days, but it had been refitted by the time of Nemesis. It went from 12 arrays/5 tubes to 16 arrays/10 tubes...2 of the tubes being twin tubes (so "12" tubes). The Gal had 10-14 arrays (older arrays, mind you) and 2 launchers capable of simultaneously launching 5 independently targeted torps...photons, mind you - compared to the quants/photons of the Sov.
My favorite Enterprise is the original Connie...doesn't mean I'd want to take it up against the Connie-A, much less any of the later ships.
Again, as for the Valdore/Mogai...Donatra didn't show up in a D'deridex to fight the Scimitar.
Time moved forward...things got better.
In many cases, they at least tried to be logical. DS9 was so bad they ridiculously overcompensated with the Defiant...it was just silly.
the mogai has a long wing span, that does not mean its a big ship just because it sticks out a long way. the mogai has no large thick place on it, other then the nose, its all rather thin and spindly. the nose section on a d'deridex would have more volume then that entire ship. same goes for the sovereign. length is meaningless compared to a volume measurement, a galaxy's saucer has more volume then an entire sovereign class.
the galaxy class is 70% modular on the inside, the way the enterprise D was setup, supporting all of those families and science labs and stuff was just 1 possible configuration. the number of launchers and arrays is meaningless, the akira has 3 arrays, but they are all rather long and thus powerful. on the other hand it had a ton of torpedo launchers, but due to packaging, that being a smaller ship, almost all of them were small single shot launchers. the galaxy might have had only 2 launchers, but they were the largest and most burst capable on any ship. the sovereign has 4 or 5 torp launchers that could belt out a bout 3 at a time, fairly rapidly, the galaxy could spit out 10 at once, it never really got a chance to show us any sort of limit. quantums are just ammo
arrays dont disco ball in canon, they fire 1 full power shot at a time from the largest array that has a shot at the target. unless they are running a some search pattern. on the galaxy the only 2 arrays that really mater are on the saucer, the rest are for point defense and to hit anything small enough to get into one of the large array's blind spots.
i should proboly mention how arrays work, so that all makes sense. in the galaxy's dorsal array, there are 200 mkX emitters. each of those emitters has power running to it, and stores its own charge and is fully capable of firing that energy itself. or, it can shunt that power down to any point on the array to add its energy to a shot. this is that moving glow effect you see in the show. this allows total control on output, and it can fire at anything the array has line of sight with at full power. the sovereign's longest array is less then half as long as the shorter ventral array of a galaxy. the mkXII emitters would have to be more then twice as powerful as a mkX emitter for the sovereign to hit as hard as a galaxy. on such a mature technology, thats not possible. and for only a short amount of time would mkXII emitters be a new and exclusive thing.
beam arrays, they got them so wrong in game. its as if ships only have dinky little aft arrays, and not long 50, 100, or 200 emitter arrays, up front at least.
the defiant, well, it proved to be a match for a tarded up excelsior. a ship that, no mater how upgraded, would be deeply inferiors to anything its size or smaller designed in the last 50 years. but thats not bad really, the defiant matching something so much larger then itself. but its not even in the top 5 of most tactically powerful of starfleet ship. it would win any damage to weight ratio competition though. it had silly plot armor of course, and was most of the time the only ship that had shields
Comments
The episode establishes the galaxy is the smaller, more nimble ship.
So, 6 is the number this game gave the Galaxy.
the problem is 6 is wrong, no none of the cruisers should have a worse turn rate then 8. if that were the case, the d'deridex could have slightly lower maneuverability and still not be horrible to use.
Very true, hopefully the developers will come to this realization eventually.
Did you have a chance to try a D'D with and RCS console and DHC before tribble was wiped? The changes could make it pretty manageble I'm hoping.
Well there are more total possible combinations with the previous layout, But I meant the new layout has more total options in the sense that you can still slot any of the individual boff abilities the old layout had, you just might not be able to slot all the exact same ones together at the same rank it was at before. So yes it loses possible cominations, but gains acess to a new ability APO1, and can still slot any ability it had acess to previously.
it was hard to get a hold of any on tribble. i did get a d'deridex before and use it with DHCs, doing the sorties on elite, not missing a single transport ever and all that, with the build i came up with it was good enough to do that. it was only usable thanks to how insanely good EPtE is. even with 4 turn consoles, at level cap, with the 5 base turn rate it wont be turning better then 20turn. i hope i can still use it like a DHC battle cruiser, but i have my doubts. being starved for eng station slots, improving this things turn rate now will be that much harder. you will need EPtE on all the time, and EPtS of course, so the thing aint usable without damage control doffs, or using the LT and LTC eng for 2 copies of AtB with tech doffs. it can just barely pull that off, not well enough for me to be terribly comfortable with.
my kdf cruisers will be jaw droping when LoR drops though, its not hard to get them in the 40 turn range, they can basically replace escorts with 2 AtB builds. with spiky, bleedy super strong pressure wile out tanking enemy escort damage and dealing more damage then they can deal with. wile keeping up with them in a dog fight even better then befor.
It might also need APO1 and a tractor, I think I will try it like that and use aux2bat build.
40 turn rate sounds fun for KDF cruiser, looks like I will try a K'tinga soon. Too bad they won't let Romulans use it anymore though so I could have it as the TOS Romulan D-7.
That's a much larger discussion though.
Do you know what you said there?
Just saying...
5 turn console negvars with their low inertia and low impulse mod literally spin like a top
oh yes i know, i was daring someone to question that. theres a huge amount of evidence and basic trek science fundamentals that show the galaxy and d'deridex to be much more powerful then their smaller decedents.
I uh...don't see it. Course, I'm the one that's always argu-stating that canon is a trap - because writers can do whatever they please and there's always plot devices lurking around for why certain things happen. The Galaxy could be epic here and fail there - depending on the story. Heck, it happened with the Sov in a shorter span of time...meh. The D'deridex was never a hero ship, so it always came off weak - and - by the time they put it next to the Defiant, it was silly weak (just like everything else - the Defiant stuff was some of the worst hero on a pedestal nonsense in the history of Trek...meh). The only real footage we have of the Mogai suggests that it sure as Hell doesn't have a turn rate as high as it does in STO. Mind you, Tin Man suggests that the D'deridex can turn much better than it does in STO as well.
i tend to cherry coat it, but here's the basics of my evidence. ive never seen anything capable of disproving any of this
how phaser arrays work according to the tech manual, it basically means the longer an array is the better its best shot can be. the galaxy's longest arrays are twice as long as the sovereign's
the galaxy's twice as large as a sov. https://imageshack.us/a/img143/8792/3axissizecompare.jpg
the damage those phaser arrays did to the cube in q who, destroying more volume of the cube then there was volume of the D
this scene- https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM if a galaxy fired like this in rascals, yesterdays enterprise, generations, and the jem hadar, there would have been a decisive galaxy class victory, in a very short amount of time. thats why i say every loss or poor performance is plot railroading. it only kept up that level of fire for a few seconds, think of what it could do after a minute. you see the sov in nemesis fighting at 100% of its capability, constantly firing the entire time. a galaxy fighting like that would look like that time in the video that it fired on a loop every 5 seconds.
the d'deridex is a lightly armored alpha striker with the most powerful weapon bank of any alpha/beta quadrant ship.
it can remove 10% of a galaxy classes shields per shot, with a rate of fire of at least twice a second.
a d'deridex decloak alpha DESTROYED station DS9, in the episode visionary. sure its shields were down, but half a season later the station held off a klingon fleet.
the d'deridex gets shredded when they fly uncloaked, taking massively more damage per hit from weapon platforms when you take into account how large they are. they were being used incorrectly as ships of the line there.
the sov is a large heavy cruiser, replacing the excelsior and ambassador and other old cruisers. its no battleship. the mogai is a mid level ship based on lessens learned from a full scale war, were the d'deridex proved it wasn't suited for every situation, especially small target mop up and attrition fights.
See, I don't just limit that to poor performances. I say the same thing happens with great performances as well. Canon cannot be trusted.
In regard to the Mogai...it's not that much smaller than the D'deridex. The wingspan of the D'deridex is placed somewhere between 700-1000m while the wingspan of the Valdore is around 900m. The Valdore design is based off of the D'deridex. Flip a Mogai, duct tape it to another Mogai with one on top of the other and give it a Roman helmet for the "saucer"... edit: Yes, the wings are not as wide even though they're not that much shorter. So it's not perfect...but then again, I said duct tape...c'mon.
The Sov is ~40m longer than the Gal. It's not as wide. It's nimbler, more streamlined. It's not the exploration (bring the family along) ship the Gal is...it actually is a battleship. Perhaps initially it was still more of a diplomatic gunboat back in the Insurrection days, but it had been refitted by the time of Nemesis. It went from 12 arrays/5 tubes to 16 arrays/10 tubes...2 of the tubes being twin tubes (so "12" tubes). The Gal had 10-14 arrays (older arrays, mind you) and 2 launchers capable of simultaneously launching 5 independently targeted torps...photons, mind you - compared to the quants/photons of the Sov.
My favorite Enterprise is the original Connie...doesn't mean I'd want to take it up against the Connie-A, much less any of the later ships.
Again, as for the Valdore/Mogai...Donatra didn't show up in a D'deridex to fight the Scimitar.
Time moved forward...things got better.
In many cases, they at least tried to be logical. DS9 was so bad they ridiculously overcompensated with the Defiant...it was just silly.
the mogai has a long wing span, that does not mean its a big ship just because it sticks out a long way. the mogai has no large thick place on it, other then the nose, its all rather thin and spindly. the nose section on a d'deridex would have more volume then that entire ship. same goes for the sovereign. length is meaningless compared to a volume measurement, a galaxy's saucer has more volume then an entire sovereign class.
the galaxy class is 70% modular on the inside, the way the enterprise D was setup, supporting all of those families and science labs and stuff was just 1 possible configuration. the number of launchers and arrays is meaningless, the akira has 3 arrays, but they are all rather long and thus powerful. on the other hand it had a ton of torpedo launchers, but due to packaging, that being a smaller ship, almost all of them were small single shot launchers. the galaxy might have had only 2 launchers, but they were the largest and most burst capable on any ship. the sovereign has 4 or 5 torp launchers that could belt out a bout 3 at a time, fairly rapidly, the galaxy could spit out 10 at once, it never really got a chance to show us any sort of limit. quantums are just ammo
arrays dont disco ball in canon, they fire 1 full power shot at a time from the largest array that has a shot at the target. unless they are running a some search pattern. on the galaxy the only 2 arrays that really mater are on the saucer, the rest are for point defense and to hit anything small enough to get into one of the large array's blind spots.
i should proboly mention how arrays work, so that all makes sense. in the galaxy's dorsal array, there are 200 mkX emitters. each of those emitters has power running to it, and stores its own charge and is fully capable of firing that energy itself. or, it can shunt that power down to any point on the array to add its energy to a shot. this is that moving glow effect you see in the show. this allows total control on output, and it can fire at anything the array has line of sight with at full power. the sovereign's longest array is less then half as long as the shorter ventral array of a galaxy. the mkXII emitters would have to be more then twice as powerful as a mkX emitter for the sovereign to hit as hard as a galaxy. on such a mature technology, thats not possible. and for only a short amount of time would mkXII emitters be a new and exclusive thing.
beam arrays, they got them so wrong in game. its as if ships only have dinky little aft arrays, and not long 50, 100, or 200 emitter arrays, up front at least.
the defiant, well, it proved to be a match for a tarded up excelsior. a ship that, no mater how upgraded, would be deeply inferiors to anything its size or smaller designed in the last 50 years. but thats not bad really, the defiant matching something so much larger then itself. but its not even in the top 5 of most tactically powerful of starfleet ship. it would win any damage to weight ratio competition though. it had silly plot armor of course, and was most of the time the only ship that had shields