D'Deridex by far most irritating ship to fly ...

glassguitar

I have the following LVL 50, Tier 5 Rep toons: Fed Tac, Fed Sci , Fed Eng, KDf Tac and KDf Sci. I have flown almost every type of ship they have to offer KDF and Fed side. I am currently doing the Beta Test, hit lvl 30 and got the D'Deridex and ...

WOW ...

Not a good wow. SO slow and SO klunky. 7 weapons and no access to Lt Cmndr or above tac skills to take advantage of them. I am playing a sci captain so I can't use gravity well etc. either. Stepping out of the Mogai and into this ship has me looking for the times for Mirror Event so I can get out of it as soon as possible. I tried to do a foundry grinder just for fun and couldn't get an arc on anything.

It is VERY inconsistent with the way Fed and KDF ships progress to be forced to play escort at one promotion and then cruiser at another. Maddening is the word I would use to describe it ...

QQing finished, my suggestion is:

At Commander and Rear Admiral Level, give us a choice please of Mogai Or D'Deridex versions that fit those levels. Better yet, create a D'D, Mogai and Dhelan for Centurion, SubCom, Com and RA levels.

The devs have created some BEAUTIFUL and interestingly unique ships for the Romulans, a shame not to be able to choose the one that fits your playstyle and stick with it ...

(P.S. I like Mogai so much I'd pay whatever was asked for a crossfaction version, and put every Captain I have in a T5 Fleet Mogai if I could. My Fleetmate feels the same about the D'D whereas I LOATHE it.)

Having flogged my point to death, I thank the devs for all the hard work so far and bid you all good day!!!

doffingcomrade

My advice to you is to stay in your Mogai. It saves you the bother and expense of radically refitting your entire crew into a ship that they're unqualified for, particularly when you don't exactly have a lot of boff slots as F2P. What's the use of getting a "ship" just to throw it out again in a few hours when you settle into your actual ship?

snipe048

I'm not exactly a fan of the only two tac console slots change either, for me the previous amount of three was way more preferable, unless cryptic wants to make the D'Deridex a Galaxy 2.0

dalnar83

doffingcomrade wrote: »

My advice to you is to stay in your Mogai. It saves you the bother and expense of radically refitting your entire crew into a ship that they're unqualified for, particularly when you don't exactly have a lot of boff slots as F2P.

True this, and you probably will kill stuff faster in the mogai anyway. This is somewhat bad situation, the good guy side in me is really bothered that people have to fly the whale, even if they are not interested in it.

The evil side in me says, hell yeah, eat this and enjoy !

But, since the leveling proccess in STO is so quick, most players will stay in D'D just few days.

atatassault

Battle Cloak. It adds a huge bonus to turn rate. If you get a whole crew of Romulans with Romulan Operative or Superior Romulan operative, your Battle cloak will be on a 50% shorter (62.5% if using Superior Romulan Operative) cooldown (add on another 10% if your toon also has Romulan Operative).

ussultimatum

doffingcomrade wrote: »

It saves you the bother and expense of radically refitting your entire crew into a ship that they're unqualified for, particularly when you don't exactly have a lot of boff slots as F2P.

You often don't have very much in the way of skill points to retrain them all either.

atatassault wrote: »

Battle Cloak. It adds a huge bonus to turn rate. If you get a whole crew of Romulans with Romulan Operative or Superior Romulan operative, your Battle cloak will be on a 50% shorter (62.5% if using Superior Romulan Operative) cooldown (add on another 10% if your toon also has Romulan Operative).

I think that's acceptable for the players that want to make that work.

On the other hand, there really should be at least 2 ship paths as you level up.


I think it's unrealistic to expect the kind of 3 ship class path that the Feds have, but at the very least there should either be 2 at each level or the level up process should be refocused to keep a fairly similar type of progress between each promotion tier ship.


That is to say some form of lighter more manuverable warbird all the way to T4, with T4 at least giving a diverging path of two different ship class choices.



I suppose at the very least this is good for customers that have purchased lower level KDF or Fed ships that their Rom counterparts would now have access to.

As much as I'd prefer to keep my Romulan in a Romulan ship, neither singularity powers nor battle cloaking is really needed for general PvE story missions.

stirling191

ussultimatum wrote: »

I think it's unrealistic to expect the kind of 3 ship class path that the Feds have, but at the very least there should either be 2 at each level or the level up process should be refocused to keep a fairly similar type of progress between each promotion tier ship.

See, I'm of the opposite opinion. Even the KDF got a three branch ship selection during their worst time period (content wise). If, as Cryptic continues to claim (despite the giant pile of evidence to the contrary, but that's another argument) the RSR is it's own full faction, why then are they so ridiculously starved of their own unique ships?

ussultimatum wrote: »

As much as I'd prefer to keep my Romulan in a Romulan ship, neither singularity powers nor battle cloaking is really needed for general PvE story missions.

Completely true. I'm personally planning on powering through the T4-T5 brackets via queues in my Sao Paolo, then going back and playing the story missions in *my* ship of choice rather than what gets foisted on me by a very poorly designed ship progression.

If I'm going to be a Romulan, I'm going to damn well be a Romulan.

naevius

atatassault wrote: »

Battle Cloak. It adds a huge bonus to turn rate.

But...it takes 3 seconds cloaked before that rate even kicks in, and it isn't that much of a boost. You certainly won't turn WITH any opponent.

You are better off making DHC attack runs and then cloaking before coming back on another run.

erei1

You can stay with a mogai, however, the free ship at lvl50 is another cruiser. Except if you are LTS/600days vets. So you may getting used to it, or start hoarding zen.

atatassault

naevius wrote: »

But...it takes 3 seconds cloaked before that rate even kicks in, and it isn't that much of a boost. You certainly won't turn WITH any opponent.

You are better off making DHC attack runs and then cloaking before coming back on another run.

Its not a matter of turning with. Its a matter of disengaging when your buffs wear out and setting up for another pass.

dalolorn

erei1 wrote: »

You can stay with a mogai, however, the free ship at lvl50 is another cruiser. Except if you are LTS/600days vets. So may get used to it, or start hoarding zen.

See, THIS is why I'm not too happy about the Romulans. I know for a fact that I'll be forced to play like a Vo'Quv, but without the B'rels to strip enemy shielding. :mad:

Furthermore, if I'm going to fly a cruiser, I'm going to fly a D'Deridex, not a Mogai-Prometheus hybrid. Which is equally impossible.

raptor63549

ussultimatum wrote: »

On the other hand, there really should be at least 2 ship paths as you level up.

I've been saying this the whole time.

Give us a full series of ships along the lines of the Dhealan and Mogai that have a tac/sci mix and a second series along the lines of the D'Deridex that has an engineering focues.

snoggymack22

raptor63549 wrote: »

I've been saying this the whole time.

Give us a full series of ships along the lines of the Dhealan and Mogai that have a tac/sci mix and a second series along the lines of the D'Deridex that has an engineering focues.

But all you rabid Romulan fans wanted the D'Deridex so badly. What's the problem? A turn rate of 5 sucks in STO? Well duh! We all already knew that!

atatassault

raptor63549 wrote: »

Give us a full series of ships along the lines of the Dhealan and Mogai that have a tac/sci mix and a second series along the lines of the D'Deridex that has an engineering focues.

We'll get that in time. However, Cryptic only had so much time between Season 7 and now, so we got the ships that we got (If you'll remember, KDF got some more free ships at lower tiers after launch).

messahla

Im very happy with the D'deridex but if your going to fly it the way you'd normally fly a large cruiser then your gonna hate it.

As is the point with ALL romulan ships they are ambush ships they use thier cloaks as part of their arsenal so you need to get in close hit as hard as you can cloak and make a second pass.

Keep you enemy off balance cooldown your boff skill while they try to figure out wth just happened get in close again and launch another attack.

D'deridex is a beast when you use the cloak as part of its arsenal and remind yourself not to try and out turn anyone but to hit cloak run turn close in and attack again.

vitzh

Been playing around with the D'Deridex (a.k.a. Henry Winchester Space Whale the Second), and think it's annoying because of the jump from Mogai but nothing really else if you know how to build and fit a space whale properly (hint* Majority of people in cruisers fail because they don't know how to build or use them and it's not their fault, Cruisers are quite hard to learn). Tac Toon on the D'Deridex makes a pretty effective beam boat and a fat tank. However it would be better if it had two sci lieutenants, just to make it more consistent with your boffs and more fun imo.

Problem is that people need to understand that just because it's engineer, tac or science heavy doesn't make it suitable for a particular toon. As it stands Engineers are only really great on ground for dueling (or making a tanky escort) and a grave injustice has been inflicted on Science when they nerfed drain builds into nothingness. So unless those two classes get a buff there no real point saying that there's engineering or science only ships.

Now in terms of ships boff layouts, I do believe Feds strive for balance. KDF focus on Tac/Engineer and Romulans focus on Tac/Sci? Not suggesting that engineers should get short end of the stick, but I do believe that Romulan ships should have two distinct ship classes available and play differently to both factions. An escort/raptor like warbird and then a science/cruiser like warbird. For argument sake we'll call one dps and the other support.

DPS Warbird
Should edge more towards Tac Boff fitting, Science favoured second, engineer favoured last.
High turn rate, focus on hit and run cannon strikes.

Support Warbird
Should edge more towards Science Boff fitting, Tac favoured second, engineer favoured last.
Low turn rate, focus on support powers and tanking.

___

See what I did there? Engineer get's short end of the stick twice. If you look at Klingon Battlecruisers and Raptors, Science get's less boff availability. BOFF LAYOUT SHOULD DO NOTHING TO PLAYER CAREER CHOICES. It would make the game more interesting if Romulan ships felt Tac/Science heavy rather than just clones of another factions ships.

Only real issue is the way the mogai plays and the shift to d'deridex and the Ha'pax (whatever that thing is called) without giving the player a real choice.

P.S. Yeah sorry if some stuff I mentioned hasn't been brought up in this topic.... yet.... however there's about 3(4?) topics about D'deridex and ship progression and I'd rather just put the argument into one.

dalolorn

messahla wrote: »

Im very happy with the D'deridex but if your going to fly it the way you'd normally fly a large cruiser then your gonna hate it.

As is the point with ALL romulan ships they are ambush ships they use thier cloaks as part of their arsenal so you need to get in close hit as hard as you can cloak and make a second pass.

Keep you enemy off balance cooldown your boff skill while they try to figure out wth just happened get in close again and launch another attack.

D'deridex is a beast when you use the cloak as part of its arsenal and remind yourself not to try and out turn anyone but to hit cloak run turn close in and attack again.

Fascinating. So the cloak is just as useful on heavy warbirds as I predicted?

P.S. Another good trick might be to stuff MES onto it, sacrificing your offensive bonus from the cloak in order to be able to cloak IMMEDIATELY after your attack run. Plus if somebody sees you approaching, you aren't going to take a ton of damage before you can decloak, AND your shields will be much sturdier during the attack run due to never being shut off.

P.P.S. Nice sig.

urniv821

I wish I could complain about it.. hopefully by may 21st they will fix her up.. lol

atatassault

dalolorn wrote: »

Fascinating. So the cloak is just as useful on heavy warbirds as I predicted?

Yes, they get the same large flat bonus to Turn Rate. My Ha'apax has +17 turn rate when cloaked, bringing it up to a turn rate of 30.

dalolorn

atatassault wrote: »

Yes, they get the same large flat bonus to Turn Rate. My Ha'apax has +17 turn rate when cloaked, bringing it up to a turn rate of 30.

No, not because of turn rate. Sure, that -is- a bonus, but...

I speculated that larger Romulan ships would be able to use the cloak much more effectively once they've been engaged - compared to the KDF Birds of Prey or the lighter Romulan warbirds - because of their vastly superior hull. The fact that it's useful because of turning is just icing on the cake. :P

stirling191

dalolorn wrote: »

No, not because of turn rate. Sure, that -is- a bonus, but...

I speculated that larger Romulan ships would be able to use the cloak much more effectively once they've been engaged - compared to the KDF Birds of Prey or the lighter Romulan warbirds - because of their vastly superior hull. The fact that it's useful because of turning is just icing on the cake. :P

For non stf content maybe.

But dropping shields with the number of stupidly overtuned kinetic torpedoes flying about in the ESTF realm is...taking a gamble at best.

atatassault

stirling191 wrote: »

For non stf content maybe.

But dropping shields with the number of stupidly overtuned kinetic torpedoes flying about in the ESTF realm is...taking a gamble at best.

A Borg Torp Crit will kill all but the most resilient ships regardless of shields. You can easily take a non crit torp to bare hull.

malkarris

On the other hand, STFs don't really require you to move quick either, unless you're defending Kang. I'd be perfectly willing to fly a D'Deridex in an STF in any role but that one, based on what I have heard. Please note I actually haven't flown one on Tribble yet, so this is only based on what I saw of the stats and what I have heard here.

dalolorn

Well, malkarris has a point... the D'Deridex is quite well suited for any task in STFs that doesn't involve rapidly turning.

admiraldeathl

I have a few suggestions to possibly fix the lack of Tac, Sci, and Eng ships.

Suggestions

1: Make Warbirds have all Universal Boff Slots or higher tiered Universal Boff Slots.

2: Make Warbirds that are focused for Tac, Sci, and Eng.

Not really too big on the first option, but it is an option that we have to consider. Now the Second Option is what I think we should go with, it would solve the problem of not having any ships for Sci, Eng, or Tac players. Basically, it'd be pulling a Vesta/Odyssey with all the Warbirds. We would have a Sci Based Mogai, and a Sci Based D'deridex etc for all the Warbirds, and they would have their consoles setup to match as well so more in the specific field they're going down. That's my 2 cents

stirling191

atatassault wrote: »

A Borg Torp Crit will kill all but the most resilient ships regardless of shields. You can easily take a non crit torp to bare hull.

You're making a very large assumption that only one torpedo is being fired at any given time, and that every ship is packing enough Neutronium to bring a 50k-ish base torpedo hit down into the naked survival range.

atatassault

stirling191 wrote: »

You're making a very large assumption that only one torpedo is being fired at any given time, and that every ship is packing enough Neutronium to bring a 50k-ish base torpedo hit down into the naked survival range.

They are not 50k-ish base. I don't use any Armor consoles and a normal, non crit STF Torp takes about 1/3 of my Fleet Scourge's hull (which is something like a total of 45k HP; Jevonite Hardpoints puts that to 55k) when its a bare hull hit.

hyouki

stirling191 wrote: »

You're making a very large assumption that only one torpedo is being fired at any given time, and that every ship is packing enough Neutronium to bring a 50k-ish base torpedo hit down into the naked survival range.

You're also assuming that every one of those will hit; your defense/evade is boosted as soon as you hit the cloak, not after the three second it takes for the cloak to kick in.

If circumstances allow, you can also use Warp Shadows or Singularity Jump to help cover your escape into cloak. The shadows to serve as distractions, the singularity to provide a perception/accuracy debuff to those caught in its effect.

dalolorn

hyouki wrote: »

You're also assuming that every one of those will hit; your defense/evade is boosted as soon as you hit the cloak, not after the three second it takes for the cloak to kick in.

If circumstances allow, you can also use Warp Shadows or Singularity Jump to help cover your escape into cloak. The shadows to serve as distractions, the singularity to provide a perception/accuracy debuff to those caught in its effect.

I would suggest the shadows over the singularity, as they TAUNT. The Borg will likely shoot exclusively at the shadows if possible, letting you cloak with ease. The singularity, on the other hand... it's only a debuff, it doesn't PREVENT hits. :P

joshl7889

Since the D'Deridex is such an iconic ship, and everybody wants it, they should just make it so that its somewat accessable by ALL careers. make all the boff slots universal and equal amounts of console slots for each. that way everyone is happy. BoP's on the KDF side r awesome to fly as an engineer or anything. therefor the D'Deridex should give us the same. thats just my opinion on the matter

dalnar83

joshl7889 wrote: »

Since the D'Deridex is such an iconic ship, and everybody wants it, they should just make it so that its somewat accessable by ALL careers. make all the boff slots universal and equal amounts of console slots for each. that way everyone is happy. BoP's on the KDF side r awesome to fly as an engineer or anything. therefor the D'Deridex should give us the same. thats just my opinion on the matter

Good idea, give all iconic ships all universal setup