...The Genesis Device is at least more thematically appropriate as an implausible Deus Ex Machina, but make no mistake, they are both implausible deus ex machinae.
Oh, for cryin' loud...jeez, it really gets my goat when people throw around literary terms and quite obviously don't understand what they mean.
A deus ex machina is an heretofore unexplained plot device that unexpectedly resolves a conflict (central to the plot or no). If it's a plot device that is explained, or fulfills audience's expectations of that plot device, or doesn't resolve a conflict, it is not a deus ex machina.
The Genesis Device is a MacGuffin. It is a plot device that drives early plot development, by raising and driving the dramatic question. Its use is explained early in the plot, when it is employed it performs exactly according to audience expectation, and by the time it is employed the dramatic question has already been answered. It drives a plot twist in the film's denouement, but that's it.
Now, had, say after beaming back aboard the Enterprise after staying in the Genesis cave, Carol Marcus said "oh wait, we can use this remote detonator to set off the Genesis device here and now!" and blown Khan up on the spot, that would have been a deus ex machina ending.
Sheesh. There's one actual deus ex machina in the film, and the Genesis device isn't it (it's the Reliant's prefix code, for those playing the home game).
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
This isn't my 'knee-jerk reaction to Abrams name', this is my opinion having seen the film. Its Nemesis II. Its a derivative retread. Its a disappointment. I hope now that JJ is moving on to Star Wars (which is what he wanted to do from the beginning anyway), somebody with an original, creative vision will take over the Trek franchise. They've got a good cast and enough money that they could be making gold, not trying to gold-plate old ideas that were fine to begin with.
I am a longtime fan who endured the mediocrity of Voyager, Enterprise and the last couple of TNG films. When disgruntled fans on TrekBBS (my Trek message board of choice in the pre-STO era) were calling for then-showrunner-in-chief Rick Berman's head, I often found myself cautioning them to be careful what they wished for, lest they end up looking back at Berman's reign as the "good old days" of the franchise.
Now, I rather liked the first JJ film and am looking forward to seeing the second one (and I get the feeling I'm either going to be totally blown away or severely let down - no middle ground between the two), but given that JJ is now taking just as much if not more heat from the fan base than Berman did, I guess my previous warnings were pretty much spot-on.
I hate the Vengdara/Nadaragence; I loathe the whole 'it's evil so it has to be massive' cliche. Why not a small, powerful ship that's near impossible to target/hit? Noooo - can't do that, can they - the 'Captain' of the ship is evil so the ship has to follow some stupid unwritten rule that all evil ships commanded by someone evil have to be large. And covered in guns apparently. :rolleyes:
Darth Vader wants to have a word with you.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Saw this on the old Syfy Blog (Blaster). I got to say, now I understand why he named it "Into Darkness". Because Star Trek is going to be into darkness after the outcome of this movie.
At this point, it's going to be a miracle if Paramount agrees to continuing the original timeline.
You know what really makes me sad? The negative reactions to this development :rolleyes:
Wrath of Khan was a great movie, there's no argument there. But redoing it in this new universe does NOT tarnish it; it's just a new, separate take on older ideas. And I for one am looking forward to this movie, regardless of if the plot follows this line or not.
I can't speak for everyone, but I do not believe the negative reactions are due to the idea of JJVerse somehow 'tarnishing' all original Trek, but are down to anger that JJ and Co are arrogant enough to think that they can literally do whatever the hell they want, slap 'Star Trek' on it, and expect people to fall for it. As mentioned above, this alternate reality can only be stretched so far before the civilian viewers (ie not lifelong Trek fans) turn round and say "Come on, JJ, now you're just taking the TRIBBLE... Do you want to take a turn on my wife when you're done with my wallet?"
I could have tolerated the idea of John Harrison being some badass agent. I could have tolerated the idea that he was an Augment who had slipped under Starfleet's radar like Doctor Bashir did. To reveal that he is Khan, sorry, that's overstepping the line. To say that Augment blood now creates Life from Death, when there has never been any previous suggestion of such capability, well, the line is a just a dot at this point...
I didn't think I could be more disappointed with JJ's arrogance than I was upon seeing the Vengeance. I've been proved wrong. Now the film might be perfectly watchable, and 120 minutes of popcorn munching entertainment, but the foundations upon which it is built are utterly rotten, and that is what I, and I believe others, are objecting to. Not the continuation of Trek in a different direction, but the usurpation of the mythos by someone with clearly zero respect for it, and who will simply do his three movie deal, then move on to another franchise and do the same thing all over again. He's already got Star Wars in his sights, what's after that? Aliens? Bond? Dirty Harry? Terminator? Maybe some more re-makes, er, I mean, re-imaginings of cult classics like in the 00s which got this whole sorry ball rolling in the first place
I too knew this was coming, but because of my sig and that I lost a bet, here goes...
ABRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMS!!
Laughed at this - I'm tempted to make a sig like this now :P
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
This short little article summarizes my problems with Into Darkness very very nicely and in short form.
Indeed, that article nicely summarizes the flaws with this reboot/remake/"re-imagining" TRIBBLE.
There is a reason WoK is usually cited as the best of the movies, in many ways it was the truest of Trek. I can start to see the anger against JJ Abrams, since what he is doing really is a slap in the face, on many levels, to us longtime fans.
The really sad part, Into Darkness will make tens of millions of dollars, if not hundreds of millions, which the studios (and some here) will call success.
You people crying over JJ Trek just don't seem to get it - he was hired to make the product - Star Trek - a profitable franchise again.
He succeeded.
Why does the movie work?
Because it takes aaaaall the known pop-cultural aspects of the original Trek and HYPERCHARGES them for entertainment purposes. Re: entertainment <---- the whole point of a movie.
Now I know a lot of you want to believe Trek is all about "enlightening the mind" - and to be fair, TNG was able to do SOME stuff like that - but the original Trek? That was mostly about having an adventure with Kirk having a fist-fight, ripped shirt, plus him baggin' a hawt chick, and the Enterprise on standby with Phasers and Photorps at the ready. Meanwhile in the ship's morgue, the staff are having to deal with making enough space for any redshirts who didn't survive the latest episode.
But hey, if you really can't take NuTrek, there's always:
Spock's Brain
Space Hippies
Turnabout Intruder
Star Trek V
The Edo
The parasite hiding in Remmick's guts
Up the Long Ladder
The Dauphin
Shades of Gray
Sub Rosa
Generations
Janeway and Paris doing each other as salamanders
Insurrection
Trip Tucker getting pregnant
Deanna Troi and the mind r4pe scene from Nemesis
^ would you like me to stop listing these gems, or shall I go on?
I want magic blood as a hypo in this game think it would bring you back from the dead. . . Oh wait that's what respawn does . . See they should have had that in this wrath of the magic blood film least it would be more believable lol
The people that I talked to who have seen the trailers all agree that this is an other nail in the trek coffin and JJ just kicked it over the edge so that it may impact at some point far below.
The people that I talked to who have seen the trailers all agree that this is an other nail in the trek coffin and JJ just kicked it over the edge so that it may impact at some point far below.
Because all the people you talked to are...who exactly? I mean, I can say just the opposite - that there are plenty of people I know who saw the trailer and most can't wait to see it.
Comments
Im going for star trek, 3 Genesis effect
im now going with star trek a search for khan
system Lord Baal is dead
lol nice one
system Lord Baal is dead
(or the undead)
Oh, for cryin' loud...jeez, it really gets my goat when people throw around literary terms and quite obviously don't understand what they mean.
A deus ex machina is an heretofore unexplained plot device that unexpectedly resolves a conflict (central to the plot or no). If it's a plot device that is explained, or fulfills audience's expectations of that plot device, or doesn't resolve a conflict, it is not a deus ex machina.
The Genesis Device is a MacGuffin. It is a plot device that drives early plot development, by raising and driving the dramatic question. Its use is explained early in the plot, when it is employed it performs exactly according to audience expectation, and by the time it is employed the dramatic question has already been answered. It drives a plot twist in the film's denouement, but that's it.
Now, had, say after beaming back aboard the Enterprise after staying in the Genesis cave, Carol Marcus said "oh wait, we can use this remote detonator to set off the Genesis device here and now!" and blown Khan up on the spot, that would have been a deus ex machina ending.
Sheesh. There's one actual deus ex machina in the film, and the Genesis device isn't it (it's the Reliant's prefix code, for those playing the home game).
Spock's Brain.
U mad bro?
:cool:
I am a longtime fan who endured the mediocrity of Voyager, Enterprise and the last couple of TNG films. When disgruntled fans on TrekBBS (my Trek message board of choice in the pre-STO era) were calling for then-showrunner-in-chief Rick Berman's head, I often found myself cautioning them to be careful what they wished for, lest they end up looking back at Berman's reign as the "good old days" of the franchise.
Now, I rather liked the first JJ film and am looking forward to seeing the second one (and I get the feeling I'm either going to be totally blown away or severely let down - no middle ground between the two), but given that JJ is now taking just as much if not more heat from the fan base than Berman did, I guess my previous warnings were pretty much spot-on.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
Darth Vader wants to have a word with you.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Well, she started the trend in the first place...
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Bloody Agreed!
I hope STO get's better ...
At this point, it's going to be a miracle if Paramount agrees to continuing the original timeline.
I could have tolerated the idea of John Harrison being some badass agent. I could have tolerated the idea that he was an Augment who had slipped under Starfleet's radar like Doctor Bashir did. To reveal that he is Khan, sorry, that's overstepping the line. To say that Augment blood now creates Life from Death, when there has never been any previous suggestion of such capability, well, the line is a just a dot at this point...
I didn't think I could be more disappointed with JJ's arrogance than I was upon seeing the Vengeance. I've been proved wrong. Now the film might be perfectly watchable, and 120 minutes of popcorn munching entertainment, but the foundations upon which it is built are utterly rotten, and that is what I, and I believe others, are objecting to. Not the continuation of Trek in a different direction, but the usurpation of the mythos by someone with clearly zero respect for it, and who will simply do his three movie deal, then move on to another franchise and do the same thing all over again. He's already got Star Wars in his sights, what's after that? Aliens? Bond? Dirty Harry? Terminator? Maybe some more re-makes, er, I mean, re-imaginings of cult classics like in the 00s which got this whole sorry ball rolling in the first place
"Your mom."- Darth Vader
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Laughed at this - I'm tempted to make a sig like this now :P
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
will be the number one kirk death in the world !!!!
system Lord Baal is dead
very much agree
system Lord Baal is dead
Can't wait to see it!
Hope he is working on 3 as we speak.
There is a reason WoK is usually cited as the best of the movies, in many ways it was the truest of Trek. I can start to see the anger against JJ Abrams, since what he is doing really is a slap in the face, on many levels, to us longtime fans.
The really sad part, Into Darkness will make tens of millions of dollars, if not hundreds of millions, which the studios (and some here) will call success.
He succeeded.
Why does the movie work?
Because it takes aaaaall the known pop-cultural aspects of the original Trek and HYPERCHARGES them for entertainment purposes. Re: entertainment <---- the whole point of a movie.
Now I know a lot of you want to believe Trek is all about "enlightening the mind" - and to be fair, TNG was able to do SOME stuff like that - but the original Trek? That was mostly about having an adventure with Kirk having a fist-fight, ripped shirt, plus him baggin' a hawt chick, and the Enterprise on standby with Phasers and Photorps at the ready. Meanwhile in the ship's morgue, the staff are having to deal with making enough space for any redshirts who didn't survive the latest episode.
But hey, if you really can't take NuTrek, there's always:
Spock's Brain
Space Hippies
Turnabout Intruder
Star Trek V
The Edo
The parasite hiding in Remmick's guts
Up the Long Ladder
The Dauphin
Shades of Gray
Sub Rosa
Generations
Janeway and Paris doing each other as salamanders
Insurrection
Trip Tucker getting pregnant
Deanna Troi and the mind r4pe scene from Nemesis
^ would you like me to stop listing these gems, or shall I go on?
I can think of more to add to your list however just joke trek is just that a joke. .
If it is Kahn then, I was right!
Its a Space Seed remake not a Wraith of Kahn, Kahn was nuts in Space Seed too.
You know what really made me suspect Kahn......the damn uniform, it looks like the
original but black and long like the Winter uniform.
If this is so i can't wait:
btw the dress uniforms of the good guys are the grey version of WoK at least in the
commercials.
So its not really surprising to me.
Please for the love of God use the James Horner Music, if its a Kahn remake do it
right.
Because all the people you talked to are...who exactly? I mean, I can say just the opposite - that there are plenty of people I know who saw the trailer and most can't wait to see it.
So now what?
:rolleyes: