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So exactly why are the Romulans' alien gen being locked to hybrid and paygated again?
thehavraha
Member Posts: 14 Arc User
Hello. I'm Havraha from Podcast UGC, a podcast about the Foundry and Star Trek Online.
From the start of the announcement of the Legacy of Romulus faction and how the alien species will be limited to hybrids only and then placed behind a paywall, I found myself asking "Why?"
The official response I received was that Cryptic had a "history of pay-gating species we don't want there to be many of", but my question again is ... why?
These Romulans are CLEARLY not the xenophobic Romulans of the Tal Shiar as they try to help even the Remans and Klingons. So that excuse cannot be used.
Some developers have told me that the Romulan faction story is very Romulan specific. I have played very deeply into the Romulan faction and yes, although it is specific to the Romulan faction and the creation of New Romulus, it is NOT about you being a Romulan. It is about how important your friends are to you, and helping save lives and families from being destroyed by the Tal Shiar. Nothing in the story prevents you from being another race other than a Romulan, as I am sure was done on purpose to make sure things like Remans and the limited version of the alien generator that was planned wouldn't conflict.
But it makes ANY alien, ANY person living in Romulan space feel right at home. Your colony, your home was attacked. You're trying to save the lives of family and friends. This story doesn't care if you're a Romulan, a Reman, a Romulan hybrid, a Suliban, a Hirogen, a Human, or a full blown alien. This is a story for everyone.
Today on TTS, it was stated that more species would be coming to the Romulan faction at a later date by Daniel Stahl. More species that are clearly not Romulan.
So again, I ask you, why is the alien gen being limited to make "hybrids only" for Romulans? And why are they being locked off? For what reason is it being locked behind a pay wall of a $15 subscription other than to squeeze more money out of the player?
Even if players subscribed for a month, would they always access to that character? Or will you lock them away from it after they've stopped paying and gone silver again? Not only have we not received any explanation as to why we're trying a great feature of Cryptics games, the alien generator, differently for this one faction than we're doing for any other faction ... but we're also not getting any answers as to how this limited mechanic that we're supposed to be happy to subscribe for is planned to be implemented in the first place!
None of this makes since. Does Cryptic not realize they will get MORE players playing MORE content if they allow those players to play that content with the characters they want to play?
From the start of the announcement of the Legacy of Romulus faction and how the alien species will be limited to hybrids only and then placed behind a paywall, I found myself asking "Why?"
The official response I received was that Cryptic had a "history of pay-gating species we don't want there to be many of", but my question again is ... why?
These Romulans are CLEARLY not the xenophobic Romulans of the Tal Shiar as they try to help even the Remans and Klingons. So that excuse cannot be used.
Some developers have told me that the Romulan faction story is very Romulan specific. I have played very deeply into the Romulan faction and yes, although it is specific to the Romulan faction and the creation of New Romulus, it is NOT about you being a Romulan. It is about how important your friends are to you, and helping save lives and families from being destroyed by the Tal Shiar. Nothing in the story prevents you from being another race other than a Romulan, as I am sure was done on purpose to make sure things like Remans and the limited version of the alien generator that was planned wouldn't conflict.
But it makes ANY alien, ANY person living in Romulan space feel right at home. Your colony, your home was attacked. You're trying to save the lives of family and friends. This story doesn't care if you're a Romulan, a Reman, a Romulan hybrid, a Suliban, a Hirogen, a Human, or a full blown alien. This is a story for everyone.
Today on TTS, it was stated that more species would be coming to the Romulan faction at a later date by Daniel Stahl. More species that are clearly not Romulan.
So again, I ask you, why is the alien gen being limited to make "hybrids only" for Romulans? And why are they being locked off? For what reason is it being locked behind a pay wall of a $15 subscription other than to squeeze more money out of the player?
Even if players subscribed for a month, would they always access to that character? Or will you lock them away from it after they've stopped paying and gone silver again? Not only have we not received any explanation as to why we're trying a great feature of Cryptics games, the alien generator, differently for this one faction than we're doing for any other faction ... but we're also not getting any answers as to how this limited mechanic that we're supposed to be happy to subscribe for is planned to be implemented in the first place!
None of this makes since. Does Cryptic not realize they will get MORE players playing MORE content if they allow those players to play that content with the characters they want to play?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Post edited by thehavraha on
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Comments
More options are better than less and by denying Romulans a fundamental option available to the other two factions currently in game it makes them seem lacking.
Also, Romulans were living in a xenophobic society for centuries. Such characteristics don't change overnight just because their homplanet blew up. I'm glad Cryptic decided to restrict access to other species, it wouldn't feel much Romulan if the faction would look like the so called 'Klingon' Empire in this game where you can see more Orions, Gorn and Aliens running around than actual Klingons.
Pretty much this. The way Cryptic has laid out the story (which I do actually think is one of LoR biggest strengths so far), you need to be a Romulan/Reman of some sort.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
All of this assumes the player's alien story for him. Maybe he is an outcast from his homeworld who has finally found acceptance with on Virinak? Maybe he's adopted from a Romulan family?
The point is he can't get up and leave the fight at the end of the tutorial because his friends need him and the Tal Shiar "won't stop looking for him", as is stated.
You SAY the Romulans are a xenophobic society for centuries, but if you actually played any length of that into the game you would see absolutely ZERO hints of xenophobia by the Romulan Republic, even towards the Klingons. Hesitancy, but not hatred. So your argument is invalid.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Not by what I have seen.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
REMOVING a features "free" quality, LIMITING its options, and calling it a perk is one hell of a twisted idea of a "reward". We enable Cryptic to further squeeze us for money by pay-gated previously free features when making excuses as to why harming our options, freedom of choice, and wallet is not "that much to ask for."
I have presented PLENTY of reasons why pro-lock-off players' and Cryptic's reasonings are invalid. No one has truly addressed any my reasons as to why THEY are invalid, and I believe that is because they aren't.
I would like this decision to be reconsidered and for players to be able to unlock and play as an alien species looking for a new home on Virinak like they would be perfectly capable of doing in the story already set up in the game.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
If you had watched any of the shows you would know that Romulans hide their disgust of other species under countless layers of courtesies.
And you could not see any xenophobia in the Republic? Really, are you that blind? It consists of both Romulans and Remans and yet it is called the ROMULAN Republic on New ROMULUS. Yeah, definitely very welcoming, even to their distant relatives who make up a large part of their new society /sarcasm :rolleyes:
I enable Cryptic to find different ways to make money. Without money, things like LoR don't happen. We're getting the expansion for free, not a lot of companies do that. If they need to recoup some money by pay gating a feature more power to them.
If a car dealer offers a free upgrade with a 2011 and 2012 Camaro, it doesn't necessarily mean he has to offer that upgrade for free with 2013 model. You like the upgrade, you want the upgrade, now you have to pay for it, or not, it's your "freedom of choice."
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Your "evidence" for locking off alien gen is exactly the opposite: it proves aliens are welcome. The Remans are NOT Romulans. In fact they were and to the Tal Shiar still ARE slaves, as Hakeev states. The Romulan Republic is clearly welcoming of the Remans, Klingons, Starfleet, and especially a heroic alien willing to help them form a new world DESPITE being a "Romulan Republic".
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
They build up a new society seemingly 'together' and one half of the people involved doesn't even get represented in its name and this doesn't seem suspicious to you? Just because they stopped treating the Remans like slaves doesn't obviously make them equals from Romulan perspective.
EDIT:
This disussion is rather pointless. The devs have made their decision anyway and it says 'Aliens are restricted'. Deal with it.
So you're happy about the free upgrade if the car deal cuts out the air conditioner and says they'll set it back up for you to work only half as good as it use to if you pay extra for it? And you admire these people? Wow. I bet the car dealers love you.
I on the other hand smell not only shenanigans, but I REALLY don't like Cryptic making "false excuses" as to their intent with this move. It's low, it's deceptive, its NOT a good business strategy and unlocking aliens will actually ENCOURAGE people to play the faction and the content, POSSIBLY even buying some of those fancy C-Store ships, so AGAIN, I ask ... why?
Why lock it off?
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Your ENTIRE argument has degraded to being based around the fact that D'Tan's effort happens to be called "The Romulan Republic" for simplicity instead of the "Romulan and Reman Joint Operation For a Better Tomorrow"? Come on.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
It's interesting that the discussion has taken a turn for the pointless when your argument no longer stands on its own two feet.
AGAIN, my statements, my reasonings, are neither being challenged nor are they really even being remotely chipped away at.
Has Cryptic made a decision? Yes. But this is also the feedback forums, a place to weigh in and discuss those decisions and how beneficial they are to the game.
I have made arguments as to why it is both player-morale beneficial and financially beneficial and why the reasonings presented by Cryptic do not stand up. A smart company with an interest in a better product, a happier playerbase, and more money spent would consider these arguments carefully.
Making this discussion rather NOT pointless, really.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Nah, the air conditioning works fine in my 2012 Camaro, but if I want to upgrade to the 2013 I have to pay to have air conditioning, so I either choose to keep my 2012 (silver) or upgrade to the 2013 (gold.)
One thing we're forgetting here, and you've been around long enough to know this, is that those of us who have been here since the beginning have technically paid for all of these features. We had to buy the game, then subscribe. Now, had Cryptic had the foresight to see they might lock off alien gen for a future expansion, they may have locked it off for fed and kdf then. They didn't. Despite bad past choices, and excuses they make now, they need to find a way to bring in the revenue, to me this is a small thing. If they said, "you can create a Science Rommie, but you have to pay for the Eng or Tac class" then I would be upset.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
A reasonable argument, but flawed in certain places.
Free-to-play players did NOT pay for alien gen. Cryptic had an opportunity, at that moment, to redefine the alien generator as a pay-gated feature for subscribers and lifetimers only. They chose NOT to. They also had an opportunity to reimagine that feature as a "hybrid only" feature. They did not. They fully and knowingly have features in the alien generator that allows you to, say, create a Klingon for the Federation without buying them in the C-Store. The catch? You don't get the same traits. And that was deemed suitable.
NOW, they're trying to change that. NOW, after so many opportunities, they're trying to take features that are free and limit them, put them behind a pay wall, and call it a perk for new and future content. And do they need to? No.
I have had developer after developer on my podcast tell me that "players don't really buy costumes or species very much." So it makes no sense to even paywall the alien-gen in the first place, ESPECIALLY a limited version of it. It's not going to get anyone to subscribe for it because they're OWN METRICS say people don't care.
What do they care about? Ships. And that's why there's C-Store ships out the wazoo, and lock boxes that hold them. The LOCKBOXES are what has enabled Cryptic to be making so much money that they can double their team size, produce a whole new faction and finish an incomplete one in half a year, and not even flinch.
They do not need the revenue. They do this because they are trying to TRIBBLE you, and people like you, out of free features you have grown ACCUSTOMED to and want to use.
I would like evidence to the contrary, but none has been presented. And treating your customers poorly like that is NEVER a good decision.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
It's more financially beneficial to have someone subscribe month to month, than it is to bank on people buying ships.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Well, not me, I'm a lifer, and that may be my downfall here. Let's just be happy they didn't put alien gen in a lockbox, and count our blessings.
Hav, you make valid points, and I applaud your efforts here, and elsewhere in the community. I don't think this is a pointless argument, but the above poster is right, the decision has been made, I don't think they are going to go back on it.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Circumstantially. For instance, as so many have argued in this very thread, if you sub for a month and then no longer sub and get to keep your alien gen character, are you subbing month after month?
No. So it's a cash-grab, then. TRIBBLE you and me and all of us out of a free feature we're use to. :mad:
I don't think Cryptic likes that idea, in fact. I think the people at Cryptic are just that, PEOPLE, human beings who emote and they read these things and they see these errors and they think "Man, this is lame. Are we really doing this?" and they don't speak up.
I can PROMISE YOU there are developers who AGREE with me and they don't speak up, because they're developers.
I want Cryptic as a company to stand up for themselves as people, stand up for themselves as a fair company, and stand up for the playerbase and improving the player experience by offering them a fair deal on the product they already have.
Through this, Star Trek Online is made better, and Cryptic does not lose anything. In fact, they gain everything. Money, respect, a good conscience, and a better game.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
I'm a lifer as well. It's not my downfall, because I fight for what's right. Not just for what benefits strictly me.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Don't mistake a lack of posts as a lack of support. The amount of views the thread garnered was MASSIVE, and many supporters were, I'm sure, fearful to post because they didn't want to have to argue.
I'm neither a stranger to argument nor am I poor at making them, as the repeated failure to address any of my points intellectually or factually continues to present.
Your previous statement of which I'm quoting, for instance, is an argument from popularity. Because it doesn't APPEAR to garner much support, it must be wrong. That's a logical fallacy that doesn't address any factual point of merit.
I would ask you to please try again, and encourage anyone from Cryptic reading this to please weigh in as well, because it is NOT a minor issue to limit the creativity of creative people that would otherwise love to buy all the ships and lockboxes on that character you're not allowing them to make.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Possible for them to break even. POSSIBLE for them to make a little money by TRIBBLE people over.
But it's MORE probable, in my mind, that new free to play players will flock to the game, try the new Romulan content, realize they can make an alien that truly suits THEIR interests and because of that be more devoted to that character, play for longer, by more lockbox keys and C-Store ships, all to be able to do what they WANT to do on this new faction with ships they really enjoy.
So you're right, my argument is based on theory, but I don't see from talking to the people I have talked to how pay-gating the alien gen and then telling people to buy a not as good version of it for $15 dollars is going to get them all that excited about the game. Do you?
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
I want to do a reality check here. I work in a prison, and I AGREE with inmates all the time. This is called a Confrontation Avoidance tactic. This tactic involves sympathizing with a person with the goal to appease him or her. An inmate complains to me, I say, "Yeah man, that does suck, and I agree, but the word came down from higher than me, and there's really nothing I can do about it. I will, however, take your complaint on up, and we'll see what happens." Do I really agree, maybe, maybe not. Come to think of it, I think Brandon does this on a daily basis, he'd make a good Correctional Officer. :P
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
I think it's more likely that a new player will flock to the game, try the new Romulan content to PLAY AS A ROMULAN, and not give the alien gen a second thought. These new players are not as likely to come to these forums to see this argument, and will just pass that feature off as a feature they won't use.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Hav,
Originally the alien gen was part of a subscription model so it was not free.
Access to the Fed and KDF alien gen only went free with everything else when the game went F2P.
You cannot say they are removing a free feature as this is the first time they have added a new faction and alien gen for such a faction.
Plus, we know there is a tonne of dev blogs still planned... like with everything else in-game... who's to say that access to the alien gen won't be unlockable by completing tier 5 on the Romulan reputation system by another character that is yet to be announced?
This could explain why Devs are not saying much about this!
I myself agree with decision to only allow a small selection of aliens to be created to make it feel more "Romulan"... yes, I understand where you are coming from with regards to Romulans and Remans living together; but after what happened in the movie with Shinzon and what I've read so far in book 1 of Titan it looks like progress was already being made between the Romulans and Remans before JJ blew everything up; so both races living together 20+ years on is not too much of a stretch IMHO... but as for living with other aliens compared to accepting help from other alien races still seems a lot more plausible given the 2,000+ plus years of isolation and paranoia that the Romulan Star Empire had been living in before hand after they split from the Valcans.