Aux2Bat is currently untouched on Tribble. Do you have a source for this rumour?
EPTx cooldown = 20 seconds
Aux2Batt cooldown with 2 copies and 3 techs = 10 seconds
Basically, auxbatt builds could use 1 copy of EPTx as if it were two, but they still could not use 2 different types which still leaves cruisers forced to choose between downgrading to EPTS1 or leaving their ensign slots empty.
Though, now I am wondering about the viability of using EPTA 3 (!), running full aux power as my baseline, and trusting in Aux2batt to pump everything else. Rate of return is 3:5, IIRC, so 125 aux power would pump everything else by +75...
Nevermind, I just realized why this doesn't work. EPS transfer speeed. You need your aux power to fully recover between auxbatt activations. EPTA3 would get you +30, but then you'd have to wait to get the other 85. Nine seconds at 10 per second. Might as well be a glacial epoch if you're under fire.
Tholian rep gives bonuses for high aux levels. So that is more or less (justified) nerf to A2B. The opportunity cost will be a lot higher - as it should be.
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The Excelsior fares the best out of this trainwreck. At least you can still use it to transwarp around while doffing. Alas, you won't be able to change into your actual ship without hitting dock.
Tholian rep gives bonuses for high aux levels. So that is more or less (justified) nerf to A2B. The opportunity cost will be a lot higher - as it should be.
It'll be a while before anyone hits T4 Tholian rep, and testing will have to be done to see if the relative performance hit from not having the skill bonuses is particularly injurious to the build. I doubt it, though. The ability to cycle through powers more rapidly is exceptionally powerful.
You guys think you've got it bad, I own a Science Oddy, D'kora, Galor, Fleet Excel, Fleet Corsair, and Fleet Negh'var. That's what, 8500 zen and about 160 million credits?
I'm trying to see if I can make something work, but everything just comes up facedesk
Problem is it screws engineers overall, cruisers get screwed the most because of all the eng slots but even the engscorts are screwed due to the lack of APA/FOMM equivents in the absence of EPtW... DEM only gets you so far.
I'm trying to see if I can make something work, but everything just comes up facedesk
Problem is it screws engineers overall, cruisers get screwed the most because of all the eng slots but even the engscorts are screwed due to the lack of APA/FOMM equivents in the absence of EPtW... DEM only gets you so far.
Yeah I spent the better part of the weekend trying to to make something work. I either end up with using what I had before (EPtS3) resulting in 3 copies of ET1 and severely diminished DPS.
Or switching to EPtS1 and one copy of ET1 resulting in loss of most of my tanking as well as severely diminished DPS.
Or Swapping in EPtW with EPtS resulting in severe loss to tanking and a marginal increase to DPS over the first two builds
All of which are severely less effective in both regards than my char on Holodeck.
After testing with my escort captain, it is a significant improvement, since now I get the shield resist, shield heal, and shield regen every 20 seconds rather than 30. I thought beams didn't hurt before, now she's a better tank than ever.
Thank you very much devs for your cruiser "improvements" :rolleyes:
I'm trying to see if I can make something work, but everything just comes up facedesk
Problem is it screws engineers overall, cruisers get screwed the most because of all the eng slots but even the engscorts are screwed due to the lack of APA/FOMM equivents in the absence of EPtW... DEM only gets you so far.
True enough, but I'm not going to level a replacement for my Klingon engineer. He'll just fly a BoP or Raptor. I already have a tactical Fed side. I hate the idea of mothballing my Fed engineer if only because of all the DOFF missions I've done with him. Maybe I can figure out a engscort build that does not suck too much. I suppose I could try an engsci heal boat with him.
There is nothing wrong an an A2B build if you use a keybind with it (I recommend this one) using cannon weapons and DPS boosting boff/doff combos and hey presto some cruisers can still do fair to good DPS
There is nothing wrong an an A2B build if you use a keybind with it (I recommend this one) using cannon weapons and DPS boosting boff/doff combos and hey presto some cruisers can still do fair to good DPS
The problem is not getting cruisers to do DPS. That is not our role. Our role is to survive, and support the team. The problem is allowing cruisers to survive, while at the same time not forcing them to have 3 empty ensign slots.
The problem is not getting cruisers to do DPS. That is not our role. Our role is to survive, and support the team. The problem is allowing cruisers to survive, while at the same time not forcing them to have 3 empty ensign slots.
What is the role of Galaxy-X? or Regent ? don't tell me they are meant to heal others...
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The problem is not getting cruisers to do DPS. That is not our role. Our role is to survive, and support the team. The problem is allowing cruisers to survive, while at the same time not forcing them to have 3 empty ensign slots.
Well I'm running EPtS1, RSP is your key shield heal in an Aux2Batt setup, everything else is simply surviving between them, that said EPtS1 is all you need for ESTFs
They are just kind of in limbo, really. They are trying to fill a DPS role, but in PvP, they are just kind of gimped.
Well there's your problem.
In PVE every ship not doing respectable damage is a boat anchor. Holding aggro because you are doing damage, and killing the enemy because you are doing damage, is how you help your team.
In PVE every ship not doing respectable damage is a boat anchor. Holding aggro because you are doing damage, and killing the enemy because you are doing damage, is how you help your team.
Yeah, there seem to be a lot of players who do not understand that damage dealing is required to gain, build, and maintain aggro.
Yeah, there seem to be a lot of players who do not understand that damage dealing is required to gain, build, and maintain aggro.
I find that I have no trouble holding aggro with a meager 4-5k DPS in ESTFs with 6 points in threat control. Throw in an embassy console, and I never lose aggro, even when faced with much higher DPS from escorts. IF by some chance I cannot hold it, then I keep the person who has it alive.
The thing is, this change damages cruisers in both PvE and PvP. There's really no need to get embroiled in arguments over PvE's need to optimize damage or PvPs mindset of creating builds that play on synergies and strengths. In both instances, cruisers get diminished more than other classes.
The thing is, this change damages cruisers in both PvE and PvP. There's really no need to get embroiled in arguments over PvE's need to optimize damage or PvPs mindset of creating builds that play on synergies and strengths. In both instances, cruisers get diminished more than other classes.
On the contrary, I think it's important to remember that a majority of players are doing PVE, so making comments that the only way this hurts cruisers is by reducing their survivability is casting too small a net on this issue. The changes also hurts cruiser firepower, because now they're going to have 20 less points of weapon power to shoot with, or they're going to be forced to have 10-second down times of enfeeblement between concentrating on weapon or shield power. My existing Holodeck battle cruisers do very respectable damage, and I've worked hard on building my ships and tactics to accomplish that without resorting to exploity gimmicks, and having that extra 20 weapon power is pretty darn important.
I don't want to see PVP's issues with the system get all the attention, because the needs of PVE are different and just as important. That's where I'm coming from. And why I posted this which has unfortunately fallen out of popular discussion. Nudge nudge.
On the contrary, I think it's important to remember that a majority of players are doing PVE, so making comments that the only way this hurts cruisers is by reducing their survivability is casting too small a net on this issue. The changes also hurts cruiser firepower, because now they're going to have 20 less points of weapon power to shoot with, or they're going to be forced to have 10-second down times of enfeeblement between concentrating on weapon or shield power. My existing Holodeck battle cruisers do very respectable damage, and I've worked hard on building my ships and tactics to accomplish that without resorting to exploity gimmicks, and having that extra 20 weapon power is pretty darn important.
I don't want to see PVP's issues with the system get all the attention, because the needs of PVE are different and just as important. That's where I'm coming from. And why I posted this which has unfortunately fallen out of popular discussion. Nudge nudge.
I agree 100% I was simply pointing out that the primary focus of a cruiser is not DPS. DPS is secondary under normal circumstances. This change effects both pvp and pve builds given that DPS is no longer attainable, even as a secondary focus.
This change effects both pvp and pve builds given that DPS is no longer attainable, even as a secondary focus.
Well, you can use torpedoes. Or take a healer everywhere. Or run up AUX power and use Sci for healing but not really because you probably have to replace your ship for that to even begin working (Odyssey varients only). Better is just switch to a sci carrier and dye your tunic yellow.
It would be very helpful if flow capacitor got buffed at the same time as stull like subspace decompiler and particle generators. That includes EPtA. it should be boosting all the outgoing science capabilites including shield and power drains.
Something just occurred to me. Impacts on cruisers aside, if the goal of this change is to make EPtX a more dynamic ability, I'm not sure it succeeds on that either. I run a Varanus on my KDF character with a single copy each of EPtW-1 and EPtS-1. If I'm shooting and EPtW is available, I click it. If I'm missing shields points and EPtS is available, I click it.
A little simplistic, I'll admit, but the changes to EPtX on tribble does nothing to change how my science vessel would use these abilities.
It's a little sad, really. Not only are cruisers getting the shaft, but the way in which ships that don't chain EPtX use the power probably won't change one jot.
Am I way off here? If this is a reasonable premise, I want to try to develop it a little further, but check my logic here before I make a fool of myself. (... Again...) :P
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Sadly, I think the changes will go live, further neutering the cruiser by what appears to be planned obsolescence.
I am not going to get into the debate of there shouldn't be any downtime for the Emergency Power abilites, because the developers are rather insistent on changing it.
Any ship currently running a single type of Emergency Power to X ability (whether it be to Shields, Weapons, Engines, or Auxiliary) will feel virtually no impact. In a span of 45 seconds (which is about the time it would take to cycle two copies), it will experience a 5 second gap in power loss.
Any ship running two types, will be crippled, and those ships are mostly cruisers. In 60 seconds (the time it would take to cycle through two copies of EPtX and EPtY), the subsystem affected by EPtX will have 20 seconds of downtime and the subsystem affected by EPtY will also have 20 seconds of downtime.
The cooldown between EPtX and EPtY is still at 15 seconds. If it was changed to 10 seconds, both EPtX and EPtY would experience a 5 second gap in a 45 second timeframe.
Damage Control Officers and Technicians (for an Auxiliary to Battery build) do not help, as they cannot reduce that 15 second cooldown between EPtX and EPtY.
There are allegedly more changes coming, that some believe will alleviate this problem. I am not as hopeful. The only changes that could possibly solve this problem (aside from changing the 15 seconds to 10 seconds) would be introducing new EPtX abilities that grant bonuses (albeit at a reduced power bonus) to two subsystems or adding a cooldown reduction (that would have to reduce the global cooldown and that will not happen) based on Starship Electro-Plasma Systems. But like I said, I'm not hopeful.
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I still cannot honestly fathom the reasoning behind the current state of the EPtX abilities.
You buffed the three that were lacking, then pushed forward a new cooldown mechanic that punishes a player for using two pairs of different EPtX abilities while doing nothing to change the state of EPtS in the game, that being it is so incredibly strong you would be a complete idiot or narcissist to not use it.
Hopefully the recent changes to the EPTX powers have highlighted to the devs how bad the situation is with regards to ensign engineering powers. 5 powers,4 share cooldown with each other and the 5th shares cooldown with the most vital skill in the game.
Set emergency power cooldowns to 0 if there are less than two active emergency powers. Might help make those damn ensign Eng spots more useful.
i.e. upon activation of EPtS:
if (epts_activate = true) then
active_ep++; //increment count for number of active EPs
if (active_ep < 2) then
global_cooldown = 0; //global EP cooldown set to 0s
epts_cooldown = 40; //EPtS cooldown set to 40s
else
global_cooldown = 20;
epts_cooldown = 40;
end if;
end if;
Comments
EPTx cooldown = 20 seconds
Aux2Batt cooldown with 2 copies and 3 techs = 10 seconds
Basically, auxbatt builds could use 1 copy of EPTx as if it were two, but they still could not use 2 different types which still leaves cruisers forced to choose between downgrading to EPTS1 or leaving their ensign slots empty.
Though, now I am wondering about the viability of using EPTA 3 (!), running full aux power as my baseline, and trusting in Aux2batt to pump everything else. Rate of return is 3:5, IIRC, so 125 aux power would pump everything else by +75...
Nevermind, I just realized why this doesn't work. EPS transfer speeed. You need your aux power to fully recover between auxbatt activations. EPTA3 would get you +30, but then you'd have to wait to get the other 85. Nine seconds at 10 per second. Might as well be a glacial epoch if you're under fire.
I will also be mothballing my cruisers. And since my entire fleet is cruisers...Yeah
I also had purchased the Excelsior and the Regent. I was planning on buying the Oddy pack and perhaps the D. Not a chance I will be buying them now.
It'll be a while before anyone hits T4 Tholian rep, and testing will have to be done to see if the relative performance hit from not having the skill bonuses is particularly injurious to the build. I doubt it, though. The ability to cycle through powers more rapidly is exceptionally powerful.
Problem is it screws engineers overall, cruisers get screwed the most because of all the eng slots but even the engscorts are screwed due to the lack of APA/FOMM equivents in the absence of EPtW... DEM only gets you so far.
Yeah I spent the better part of the weekend trying to to make something work. I either end up with using what I had before (EPtS3) resulting in 3 copies of ET1 and severely diminished DPS.
Or switching to EPtS1 and one copy of ET1 resulting in loss of most of my tanking as well as severely diminished DPS.
Or Swapping in EPtW with EPtS resulting in severe loss to tanking and a marginal increase to DPS over the first two builds
All of which are severely less effective in both regards than my char on Holodeck.
After testing with my escort captain, it is a significant improvement, since now I get the shield resist, shield heal, and shield regen every 20 seconds rather than 30. I thought beams didn't hurt before, now she's a better tank than ever.
Thank you very much devs for your cruiser "improvements" :rolleyes:
The problem is not getting cruisers to do DPS. That is not our role. Our role is to survive, and support the team. The problem is allowing cruisers to survive, while at the same time not forcing them to have 3 empty ensign slots.
What is the role of Galaxy-X? or Regent ? don't tell me they are meant to heal others...
They aren't damage, thats for sure! :P
They are just kind of in limbo, really. They are trying to fill a DPS role, but in PvP, they are just kind of gimped.
Well I'm running EPtS1, RSP is your key shield heal in an Aux2Batt setup, everything else is simply surviving between them, that said EPtS1 is all you need for ESTFs
Well there's your problem.
In PVE every ship not doing respectable damage is a boat anchor. Holding aggro because you are doing damage, and killing the enemy because you are doing damage, is how you help your team.
I find that I have no trouble holding aggro with a meager 4-5k DPS in ESTFs with 6 points in threat control. Throw in an embassy console, and I never lose aggro, even when faced with much higher DPS from escorts. IF by some chance I cannot hold it, then I keep the person who has it alive.
On the contrary, I think it's important to remember that a majority of players are doing PVE, so making comments that the only way this hurts cruisers is by reducing their survivability is casting too small a net on this issue. The changes also hurts cruiser firepower, because now they're going to have 20 less points of weapon power to shoot with, or they're going to be forced to have 10-second down times of enfeeblement between concentrating on weapon or shield power. My existing Holodeck battle cruisers do very respectable damage, and I've worked hard on building my ships and tactics to accomplish that without resorting to exploity gimmicks, and having that extra 20 weapon power is pretty darn important.
I don't want to see PVP's issues with the system get all the attention, because the needs of PVE are different and just as important. That's where I'm coming from. And why I posted this which has unfortunately fallen out of popular discussion. Nudge nudge.
I agree 100% I was simply pointing out that the primary focus of a cruiser is not DPS. DPS is secondary under normal circumstances. This change effects both pvp and pve builds given that DPS is no longer attainable, even as a secondary focus.
A little simplistic, I'll admit, but the changes to EPtX on tribble does nothing to change how my science vessel would use these abilities.
It's a little sad, really. Not only are cruisers getting the shaft, but the way in which ships that don't chain EPtX use the power probably won't change one jot.
Am I way off here? If this is a reasonable premise, I want to try to develop it a little further, but check my logic here before I make a fool of myself. (... Again...) :P
-- Winston Churchill
I am not going to get into the debate of there shouldn't be any downtime for the Emergency Power abilites, because the developers are rather insistent on changing it.
Any ship currently running a single type of Emergency Power to X ability (whether it be to Shields, Weapons, Engines, or Auxiliary) will feel virtually no impact. In a span of 45 seconds (which is about the time it would take to cycle two copies), it will experience a 5 second gap in power loss.
Any ship running two types, will be crippled, and those ships are mostly cruisers. In 60 seconds (the time it would take to cycle through two copies of EPtX and EPtY), the subsystem affected by EPtX will have 20 seconds of downtime and the subsystem affected by EPtY will also have 20 seconds of downtime.
The cooldown between EPtX and EPtY is still at 15 seconds. If it was changed to 10 seconds, both EPtX and EPtY would experience a 5 second gap in a 45 second timeframe.
Damage Control Officers and Technicians (for an Auxiliary to Battery build) do not help, as they cannot reduce that 15 second cooldown between EPtX and EPtY.
There are allegedly more changes coming, that some believe will alleviate this problem. I am not as hopeful. The only changes that could possibly solve this problem (aside from changing the 15 seconds to 10 seconds) would be introducing new EPtX abilities that grant bonuses (albeit at a reduced power bonus) to two subsystems or adding a cooldown reduction (that would have to reduce the global cooldown and that will not happen) based on Starship Electro-Plasma Systems. But like I said, I'm not hopeful.
You buffed the three that were lacking, then pushed forward a new cooldown mechanic that punishes a player for using two pairs of different EPtX abilities while doing nothing to change the state of EPtS in the game, that being it is so incredibly strong you would be a complete idiot or narcissist to not use it.
End result?
Everyone runs EPtS 1 two copies.
no point in running any thing else or at a higher tier do to the horrible ensign level engineer abilities
Bad.
i.e. upon activation of EPtS:
if (epts_activate = true) then
active_ep++; //increment count for number of active EPs
if (active_ep < 2) then
global_cooldown = 0; //global EP cooldown set to 0s
epts_cooldown = 40; //EPtS cooldown set to 40s
else
global_cooldown = 20;
epts_cooldown = 40;
end if;
end if;