Frankly, all of this posturing is silly. Where are we going to draw the line for rp immersion? Some of you don't want Romulans having access to Fed and KDF ships, but as a fed, you can already play as a Klingon captain (c-store unlockable Fed Klingon). Are we going to prohibit Fed Klings from flying fed ships solely because they are klingons? Also, we have tons of liberated borg captaining kling and fed starships. You really think the starfleet or the Klingon high council we know from the various t.v. series would trust a liberated borg enough to give them command of a ship? Heck, I would trust Data 100 times more than a Klingon to command my starships if I were starfleet. Same goes for the Klingon High Council. I wouldn't trust a human enough to let him/her captain a KDF starship either. So honestly, these arguments seem nonsensical since every rp rule in the book got tossed out with access to Lib. borg captains and Kling Fed Captains.
Frankly, all of this posturing is silly. Where are we going to draw the line for rp immersion? Some of you don't want Romulans having access to Fed and KDF ships, but as a fed, you can already play as a Klingon captain (c-store unlockable Fed Klingon). Are we going to prohibit Fed Klings from flying fed ships solely because they are klingons? Also, we have tons of liberated borg captaining kling and fed starships. You really think the starfleet or the Klingon high council we know from the various t.v. series would trust a liberated borg enough to give them command of a ship? Heck, I would trust Data 100 times more than a Klingon to command my starships if I were starfleet. Same goes for the Klingon High Council. I wouldn't trust a human enough to let him/her captain a KDF starship either. So honestly, these arguments seem nonsensical since every rp rule in the book got tossed out with access to Lib. borg captains and Kling Fed Captains.
Federation Klingons and Liberated Borg are still officers in Starfleet.
Romulans, supposedly, are not.
Good luck getting the American government to give a 688(i) to the Russians. Or, for that matter, getting the Russians to give the Americans a Shchuka.
"STO launched in 2010 with two playable factions, the Federation and Klingon Empire. Each faction had exclusive species, costumes, and starships. Faction rules were established. If you purchased a starship for the Federation, you could not unlock it for your Klingon captains because it was a different faction. We didn?t have to create that rule or add factions, but we did so because it fits the fiction of Star Trek Online where these two groups are at odds. We could have easily said everyone is in the same faction and let everyone mingle, but that didn?t fit our future story goals"
"Romulans also gain access to the Fleet Ships of their chosen ally as well as any Romulan Republic only Fleet ships."
"...This includes the possibility that we might release a Romulan themed box that may have specific Romulan ships that are available to all factions."
Federation Klingons and Liberated Borg are still officers in Starfleet.
Romulans, supposedly, are not.
Good luck getting the American government to give a 688(i) to the Russians. Or, for that matter, getting the Russians to give the Americans a Shchuka.
Starfleet, KDF officer exchange program from TNG proves otherwise and this new Romulan-Fed alliance is just a better version of it. Give me one example from t.v. series canon where a lib borg starfleet officer or starfleet klingon was offered command of starship.
Well it give those that want to fly their Fed or KDF ship able to. But I for one have stay true to my Fed characters. I fly only fed ships, and I intend to fly Romulan ships for that toon and nothing more.
I'd roleplay Ktingas and brels as older antiquidated equipment, or leftover junk a terrorist might use from the ancient ships for cloak trade between Roms and KDF. But thats where i draw the line. I can't think of any Fed ships that fit this bill.
As a side note I refuse to fly any KDF ship that isn't Klingon in design, unless the race of the character matches the ship design. So no flying fish for me without being Nausican.
Now I understand that some people have a problem with people flying other factions ships as it seems the Romulans will be able to do and the Fed and Klingons are already able to do with the lock box ships but you have to bare in mind that the sharing of technology between different races/nations/groups has been going on for years both in Star Trek and the real world and there are also numerous instances of times when ships/technology being stolen and put to use by foreign powers.
Here are a few examples
Star Trek
Romulans used Klingon battlecruisers in TOS probably as a result of the alliance
Did the Klingons not get their cloaking technology from the Romulans?
Romulans loaned a cloaking device to Starfleet in exchange for intel
Kirk stole cloaking device from Romulans
Kirk stole a Bird of Prey
Ferengis were able to purchased 2 old Birds of Prey
Gul Dukat stole a Bird of Prey
Sisko captured and used a Jem'Hadar attack ship
Real Life
How many countries use weapons designed or made by US or Russia?
Pretty sure Britain uses American ballistic missiles (Trident and previously Polaris)
Saudi Arabia has purchased combat aircraft off both Britain and US
Numerous countries have purchased foreign built navy vessels (e.g. The Argentine General Belgrano that was sunk during the Falklands war was the USS Phoenix when built)
It used to be common practice to capture and reuse enemy ships. The HMS Enterprise commissioned in 1705 was a French built frigate.
I could list more but the fact remains that technology is often shared/sold/stolen and this should be happening in the Star Trek universe far more that perhaps it does.
I personally don't have any interest in flying Federation or Klingon ships as a Romulan as long as there are sufficient Romulan ships available. That said most of the cannon ships in the game are old (30+ years old) so in theory, Starfleet and the KDF should have advanced enough that it doesn't matter if Romulans get their hands on the ships and the same applies in reverse for the cannon Romulan ships such as the D'Deridex and Mogai.
[edit]Also, do the Federation and Klingons not already have access to high-end Romulan and Reman weapons and technology (Energy Weapons, Torpedoes, Shields, Deflectors, Engines, Consoles, Scorpion fighters and space and ground reinforcements) perhaps they should give them up? or is it ok to use them but not ships? [end of edit]
At the end of the day, I think certain people need to calm down and wait until the update goes on Tribble and then see what is what, because at the moment, non of us really knows what is happening and their is plenty of time for Cryptic to change things around.
***Sausages for All*** Federation - Mirel II, Tala Lyleh sh'Ezlem, Vro'kul, Jahrel, Giweatu, Jhrol th'Ezlem, Katariina Rebane, Eleftheria Palaiologou, Surel, Saimon, TheEfficientSaurian KDF -Mirel I, Anirez Norai, Talash Romulans - T'Lara, Makath 'The Needle' Ayailat, Mirel III
It's hilarious that Cryptic is still pretending that 'allies of convenience' such as the Romulans are supposedly in with the Federation and KDF, would be given stuff like Odyssey, Armitages, Soverigns, Vo'Quvs, Negh'vars, Kar'Fis, etc, top of the line military equipment that the Romulans need...why? If they are as obsessed with rebuilding as they supposedly are, why do they need Vo'Quvs and Soverigns?
It's hilarious that Cryptic is still pretending that 'allies of convenience' such as the Romulans are supposedly in with the Federation and KDF, would be given stuff like Odyssey, Armitages, Soverigns, Vo'Quvs, Negh'vars, Kar'Fis, etc, top of the line military equipment that the Romulans need...why? If they are as obsessed with rebuilding as they supposedly are, why do they need Vo'Quvs and Soverigns?
Because the creator, errr, god, err Romulans need a starship! :rolleyes:
The only thing STO has in common with Star Trek is the artwork. It was that way before this, and it will still be that way after it. Its a low-contact game, treat it the way the devs treat it, and you'll get more enjoyment out of it.
I don't really think that romulans should be flying any allied vessel unless they become fed/kdf, not just allies of fed/kdf. It makes no sense to me. It doesn't happen in the real world nor in Star Trek lore. In the US India has been our ally since 1947 and there is no effing way the US would ever let India have access to our top rung military equipment. "Here India, have a stealth bomber!" Are you kidding me?
This is a big mistake Cryptic.
-EDIT - :rolleyes: This isn't me rolling my eyes at you, it's you rolling your eyes at my suspension of disbelief. If there was a good smiley face getting slapped on here, I you could slap my suspension of disbelief in the face - which would be much more appropriate.
Frankly, all of this posturing is silly. Where are we going to draw the line for rp immersion? Some of you don't want Romulans having access to Fed and KDF ships, but as a fed, you can already play as a Klingon captain (c-store unlockable Fed Klingon). Are we going to prohibit Fed Klings from flying fed ships solely because they are klingons? Also, we have tons of liberated borg captaining kling and fed starships. You really think the starfleet or the Klingon high council we know from the various t.v. series would trust a liberated borg enough to give them command of a ship? Heck, I would trust Data 100 times more than a Klingon to command my starships if I were starfleet. Same goes for the Klingon High Council. I wouldn't trust a human enough to let him/her captain a KDF starship either. So honestly, these arguments seem nonsensical since every rp rule in the book got tossed out with access to Lib. borg captains and Kling Fed Captains.
wow, you missed the point completely.. was word not a single klingon in the federation.. and his alligence (for the most part) was with the fed.. its one thing to have a few of the characters floating around.. but what they are doing is bringing an entire faction into it..
and people saying we already have other alien ships floating around.. well, to me that sucks.. everytime i warp into earth system, and see so many enemy ships there, well it makes me question why i still play.. i play so that i can have a peace of the star trek experience.. not yours..
the thing that sucks the biggest for me, is most of my friends that i played this game with have quit, cause they cant stand the fact that the game has detracted so far from the actual ip.. they were ok with some things changing, but at this point, i wouldnt be suprised if we get my little pony mounts in game..
and as far as a playable dderidex class, we will probably see it.. as dan stahl already stated that it would not be a lock box ship.. so that pretty much means it will be one.. almost everything he has said wouldnt happen, has happened..
i have lost more and more faith in this game each day since the anouncement and ask cryptic concearning lor...
I don't really think that romulans should be flying any allied vessel unless they become fed/kdf, not just allies of fed/kdf. It makes no sense to me. It doesn't happen in the real world nor in Star Trek lore.
Yet STO is full of Fed and KDF pilots flying non-Faction ships - including a future timeship. None of it makes sense, so why focus so heavily on this one aspect? STO is, at best, only 30% canon.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yet STO is full of Fed and KDF pilots flying non-Faction ships - including a future timeship. None of it makes sense, so why focus so heavily on this one aspect? STO is, at best, only 30% canon.
Yeah it is. This is like the cherry topping on the suspension of disbelief face slap sunday. Why focus on it? Because the other ships were a stupid enough. Andorian, Vulcan, Gorn, okay I get it. Small zits are easy to look past but when she has a giant ***** cyst on the middle of her nose it's hard not to look at it. This is that cyst. With every expansion the game is more and more becoming an MMO in Star Trek wrappings - and not the canon-friendly Star Trek MMO we were promised. At this point we may as well all fly any ship we want and wear anything we want and be any race we want. Just so long as PWE can make some money off of us by selling it to us (directly or indirectly) through the Z-Store.
I mean, why even have factions at this point? We should just get rid of them all. We obviously don't care about lore.
Yet STO is full of Fed and KDF pilots flying non-Faction ships - including a future timeship. None of it makes sense, so why focus so heavily on this one aspect? STO is, at best, only 30% canon.
They do have 'rules' apparently though:
"Faction rules were established. If you purchased a starship for the Federation, you could not unlock it for your Klingon captains because it was a different faction." From the interview today.
The fact that they have plans to make Romulans ships available throguh lockboxes, and are going to allow Romulans access to even the highest tiers of ship from their allies speaks volumes about what they think of this 'fraction' IMO.
Yet STO is full of Fed and KDF pilots flying non-Faction ships - including a future timeship. None of it makes sense, so why focus so heavily on this one aspect? STO is, at best, only 30% canon.
But at least I'm a Federation Officer flying a Federation Timeship. That makes some semblance of sense. The general impression I got, is that the Romulans are going to have access to the Wells and Korath based on what side they choose.
How many countries use weapons designed or made by US or Russia?
There's a tremendous difference between a M4 and an Ohio-class SSBN in technology, classified design characteristics and capabilities, and strategic value.
Pretty sure Britain uses American ballistic missiles (Trident and previously Polaris)
Nope. The British participated in early development efforts with the U.S., but the current U.K. nuclear arsenal is independent of the United States. And the U.K./U.S. relationship is a lot closer and more friendly than the Feds/KDF and Romulans.
Saudi Arabia has purchased combat aircraft off both Britain and US
Again, the gap between a $20 million jet and a $2.5 billion dollar Virginia-class submarine.
Numerous countries have purchased foreign built navy vessels (e.g. The Argentine General Belgrano that was sunk during the Falklands war was the USS Phoenix when built)
Those are always obsolete relics that would otherwise be scrapped by the selling nation. Russia is comfortable selling Kilos to Iran because Kilos are vastly inferior to what Russia has now. And also they desperately need the money.
It used to be common practice to capture and reuse enemy ships. The HMS Enterprise commissioned in 1705 was a French built frigate.
Ships-as-prizes is not relevant to the discussion of the Federation handing over Defiants to the Romulans.
Yet another reason why this is closer to being a one-faction game than three-faction. What's the point of Romulans if they're just Feds or Klinks in green?
Man, I started off with such high hopes for this expansion, but such fundamental design mistakes as this...
Nailed it. :P Nothing would break immersion more than flying a borg ship and according to Stahl they could be bringing a borg lock box later this year, so yeah.
That's a bad sign. Companies usually only trash their product in order to wring out some last bit of revenue before shutting it down.
I, for one, fear change and hope that all this cool new content we're being promised is just an april fool's trick gone awry!
It's new content, but the more I hear about it, the less enthused I am. I'd rather they didn't go overboard trying to dress and sell this playable race as a new faction, because this is just empty marketing nonsense.
I doubt they'll ever have access to the resources again to extricate themselves out of this situation, and make the Romulans a proper faction.
I'm certain they're standardizing some behind-the-scenes stuff so that they can just plug in additional playable races, while marketing them as full blown factions.
You've asked me to discuss, so I will. Quite short and simple.
I'm perfectly fine with this.
Thanks. ^_^
You don't think it's conceptually wrong for Romulan "faction" characters to be flying Odyssey class cruisers or Vestas or other top of the line Fed ships? You don't think that just makes the whole Romulan "faction" a pointless mess?
Klingon ships are out of bounds for the Federation, and Federation ships are out of bounds for the Klingons. Cryptic even mentioned this in this last interview as somethign they were proud of, so why are the Romulans treated differently? Their ships aren't exclusive to their faction if they follow through on their romulan lockbox plan, and the romulans themselves have full access to all ships of their ally. it's a double standard for sure and speaks volumes about how seriosuly Cryptic takes the legitimacy of the faction.
Klingon ships are out of bounds for the Federation, and Federation ships are out of bounds for the Klingons. Cryptic even mentioned this in this last interview as somethign they were proud of,
Classic...
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
You don't think it's conceptually wrong for Romulan "faction" characters to be flying Odyssey class cruisers or Vestas or other top of the line Fed ships? You don't think that just makes the whole Romulan "faction" a pointless mess?
Oh, give me a break. Dan has alluded to releasing Romulan lock box ships that will be available to all factions. If that's true, it's very likely that Feds will get Rom lock box ships with cloak. At that point, it will be pointless to roll a Romulan character. In the same way that Roms flying fed and kling ships makes no sense, neither does it make sense that Feds and Klings should be flying Rom exclusive cloak enabled ships.
Oh, give me a break. Dan has alluded to releasing Romulan lock box ships that will be available to all factions. If that's true, it's very likely that Feds will get Rom lock box ships with cloak. At that point, it will be pointless to roll a Romulan character.
Obviously they won't release a lock box until the revenue from offering the faction starts declining.
That could be months.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
Federation Klingons and Liberated Borg are still officers in Starfleet.
Romulans, supposedly, are not.
Good luck getting the American government to give a 688(i) to the Russians. Or, for that matter, getting the Russians to give the Americans a Shchuka.
"STO launched in 2010 with two playable factions, the Federation and Klingon Empire. Each faction had exclusive species, costumes, and starships. Faction rules were established. If you purchased a starship for the Federation, you could not unlock it for your Klingon captains because it was a different faction. We didn?t have to create that rule or add factions, but we did so because it fits the fiction of Star Trek Online where these two groups are at odds. We could have easily said everyone is in the same faction and let everyone mingle, but that didn?t fit our future story goals"
"Romulans also gain access to the Fleet Ships of their chosen ally as well as any Romulan Republic only Fleet ships."
"...This includes the possibility that we might release a Romulan themed box that may have specific Romulan ships that are available to all factions."
Doublespeak at its finest.
Starfleet, KDF officer exchange program from TNG proves otherwise and this new Romulan-Fed alliance is just a better version of it. Give me one example from t.v. series canon where a lib borg starfleet officer or starfleet klingon was offered command of starship.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I'd roleplay Ktingas and brels as older antiquidated equipment, or leftover junk a terrorist might use from the ancient ships for cloak trade between Roms and KDF. But thats where i draw the line. I can't think of any Fed ships that fit this bill.
As a side note I refuse to fly any KDF ship that isn't Klingon in design, unless the race of the character matches the ship design. So no flying fish for me without being Nausican.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Exactly. Why not? I've paid a lot of money for ships I can't use with another faction. Apparently it makes sense that I should be able to.
Here are a few examples
Star Trek
Romulans used Klingon battlecruisers in TOS probably as a result of the alliance
Did the Klingons not get their cloaking technology from the Romulans?
Romulans loaned a cloaking device to Starfleet in exchange for intel
Kirk stole cloaking device from Romulans
Kirk stole a Bird of Prey
Ferengis were able to purchased 2 old Birds of Prey
Gul Dukat stole a Bird of Prey
Sisko captured and used a Jem'Hadar attack ship
Real Life
How many countries use weapons designed or made by US or Russia?
Pretty sure Britain uses American ballistic missiles (Trident and previously Polaris)
Saudi Arabia has purchased combat aircraft off both Britain and US
Numerous countries have purchased foreign built navy vessels (e.g. The Argentine General Belgrano that was sunk during the Falklands war was the USS Phoenix when built)
It used to be common practice to capture and reuse enemy ships. The HMS Enterprise commissioned in 1705 was a French built frigate.
I could list more but the fact remains that technology is often shared/sold/stolen and this should be happening in the Star Trek universe far more that perhaps it does.
I personally don't have any interest in flying Federation or Klingon ships as a Romulan as long as there are sufficient Romulan ships available. That said most of the cannon ships in the game are old (30+ years old) so in theory, Starfleet and the KDF should have advanced enough that it doesn't matter if Romulans get their hands on the ships and the same applies in reverse for the cannon Romulan ships such as the D'Deridex and Mogai.
[edit]Also, do the Federation and Klingons not already have access to high-end Romulan and Reman weapons and technology (Energy Weapons, Torpedoes, Shields, Deflectors, Engines, Consoles, Scorpion fighters and space and ground reinforcements) perhaps they should give them up? or is it ok to use them but not ships? [end of edit]
At the end of the day, I think certain people need to calm down and wait until the update goes on Tribble and then see what is what, because at the moment, non of us really knows what is happening and their is plenty of time for Cryptic to change things around.
Federation - Mirel II, Tala Lyleh sh'Ezlem, Vro'kul, Jahrel, Giweatu, Jhrol th'Ezlem, Katariina Rebane, Eleftheria Palaiologou, Surel, Saimon, TheEfficientSaurian
KDF -Mirel I, Anirez Norai, Talash
Romulans - T'Lara, Makath 'The Needle' Ayailat, Mirel III
Because the creator, errr, god, err Romulans need a starship! :rolleyes:
This is a big mistake Cryptic.
-EDIT - :rolleyes: This isn't me rolling my eyes at you, it's you rolling your eyes at my suspension of disbelief. If there was a good smiley face getting slapped on here, I you could slap my suspension of disbelief in the face - which would be much more appropriate.
wow, you missed the point completely.. was word not a single klingon in the federation.. and his alligence (for the most part) was with the fed.. its one thing to have a few of the characters floating around.. but what they are doing is bringing an entire faction into it..
and people saying we already have other alien ships floating around.. well, to me that sucks.. everytime i warp into earth system, and see so many enemy ships there, well it makes me question why i still play.. i play so that i can have a peace of the star trek experience.. not yours..
the thing that sucks the biggest for me, is most of my friends that i played this game with have quit, cause they cant stand the fact that the game has detracted so far from the actual ip.. they were ok with some things changing, but at this point, i wouldnt be suprised if we get my little pony mounts in game..
and as far as a playable dderidex class, we will probably see it.. as dan stahl already stated that it would not be a lock box ship.. so that pretty much means it will be one.. almost everything he has said wouldnt happen, has happened..
i have lost more and more faith in this game each day since the anouncement and ask cryptic concearning lor...
Yeah it is. This is like the cherry topping on the suspension of disbelief face slap sunday. Why focus on it? Because the other ships were a stupid enough. Andorian, Vulcan, Gorn, okay I get it. Small zits are easy to look past but when she has a giant ***** cyst on the middle of her nose it's hard not to look at it. This is that cyst. With every expansion the game is more and more becoming an MMO in Star Trek wrappings - and not the canon-friendly Star Trek MMO we were promised. At this point we may as well all fly any ship we want and wear anything we want and be any race we want. Just so long as PWE can make some money off of us by selling it to us (directly or indirectly) through the Z-Store.
I mean, why even have factions at this point? We should just get rid of them all. We obviously don't care about lore.
"Faction rules were established. If you purchased a starship for the Federation, you could not unlock it for your Klingon captains because it was a different faction." From the interview today.
The fact that they have plans to make Romulans ships available throguh lockboxes, and are going to allow Romulans access to even the highest tiers of ship from their allies speaks volumes about what they think of this 'fraction' IMO.
But at least I'm a Federation Officer flying a Federation Timeship. That makes some semblance of sense. The general impression I got, is that the Romulans are going to have access to the Wells and Korath based on what side they choose.
What the TRIBBLE is up with that!??!
There's a tremendous difference between a M4 and an Ohio-class SSBN in technology, classified design characteristics and capabilities, and strategic value.
Nope. The British participated in early development efforts with the U.S., but the current U.K. nuclear arsenal is independent of the United States. And the U.K./U.S. relationship is a lot closer and more friendly than the Feds/KDF and Romulans.
Again, the gap between a $20 million jet and a $2.5 billion dollar Virginia-class submarine.
Those are always obsolete relics that would otherwise be scrapped by the selling nation. Russia is comfortable selling Kilos to Iran because Kilos are vastly inferior to what Russia has now. And also they desperately need the money.
Ships-as-prizes is not relevant to the discussion of the Federation handing over Defiants to the Romulans.
That......is a very good point
Man, I started off with such high hopes for this expansion, but such fundamental design mistakes as this...
I'm perfectly fine with this.
Thanks. ^_^
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
That's a bad sign. Companies usually only trash their product in order to wring out some last bit of revenue before shutting it down.
It's new content, but the more I hear about it, the less enthused I am. I'd rather they didn't go overboard trying to dress and sell this playable race as a new faction, because this is just empty marketing nonsense.
I doubt they'll ever have access to the resources again to extricate themselves out of this situation, and make the Romulans a proper faction.
I'm certain they're standardizing some behind-the-scenes stuff so that they can just plug in additional playable races, while marketing them as full blown factions.
Or the finest ships in the fleet, as it turns out.
You don't think it's conceptually wrong for Romulan "faction" characters to be flying Odyssey class cruisers or Vestas or other top of the line Fed ships? You don't think that just makes the whole Romulan "faction" a pointless mess?
Oh, give me a break. Dan has alluded to releasing Romulan lock box ships that will be available to all factions. If that's true, it's very likely that Feds will get Rom lock box ships with cloak. At that point, it will be pointless to roll a Romulan character. In the same way that Roms flying fed and kling ships makes no sense, neither does it make sense that Feds and Klings should be flying Rom exclusive cloak enabled ships.
That could be months.