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Romulans and Klingons truly Allies?
firelordzx5
Member Posts: 79 Arc User
I know that the Romulans players will have choose faction in lvl 10 however, this is a little off in the case of Romulans choosing KDF as Allies.
In canon, the Romulans and The Klingons had a Love-Hate Relationship, while the Romulan gave the klingons their cloak technology, the klingons gave their (now obsoleted) D7 cruisers to the romulans, the alliance was short-lived and broke in some point and become deadly enemies,
The Klingons Hate the Romulans and Vice-versa
Now these romulans are allying themselves WITH the klingons that they hate so much, and vice versa. How J'mpok, Chancellor and Klingon by body and spirit that declared Romulans and FEDs enemies of the Empire, Support this Idea? is against the whole Klingon's "Never trust a Romulan" and the J'mpok's idea of expanding the Empire.
how this will work? Cryptic must have a very good excuse for the KDF Rommies. is very... out of place.
In canon, the Romulans and The Klingons had a Love-Hate Relationship, while the Romulan gave the klingons their cloak technology, the klingons gave their (now obsoleted) D7 cruisers to the romulans, the alliance was short-lived and broke in some point and become deadly enemies,
The Klingons Hate the Romulans and Vice-versa
Now these romulans are allying themselves WITH the klingons that they hate so much, and vice versa. How J'mpok, Chancellor and Klingon by body and spirit that declared Romulans and FEDs enemies of the Empire, Support this Idea? is against the whole Klingon's "Never trust a Romulan" and the J'mpok's idea of expanding the Empire.
how this will work? Cryptic must have a very good excuse for the KDF Rommies. is very... out of place.
Post edited by firelordzx5 on
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Doesn't the name Undine mean in Klingon "Those without honor"?
But while we're off dealing with that, you and your good Romulans go ahead make yourself at home here on Qo'Nos, look around our fleet bases and help yourself.
You could say that it doesn't represent an 'official' act of the Empire to ally with these Romulan separatists. That would be odd given the duality of the alliance with the Federation. I think its best to consider it an alliance at a smaller scale, akin to the Duras canon connection.
I can't rationalize it for the FED side however. Its a clear violation of several Prime Directive sub-orders.
I wonder if Cryptic will change the text for that mission at all, or if we'll have that NPC laughably telling Romulan characters that they should never trust a Romulan. Hehe.
not exactly; Qa'meH quv, which is what the klingons call undine, literally (or as literal as cryptic can get) means "Replacers of honor with dishonor"
not quite the same thing, though i doubt you'd ever find a klingon that'll argue that undine have any honor
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Wrong. Can FED Romulan and KDF Romulan players group together? No, so yes, Romulan players choose faction at level 10 but they call it alliance, its nice and diplomatic, isnt it?.
The house of duras used romulans mercenaries
the Klingons put aside their war in order to stop the borg and help new romulus with the excuse that "we conquered the romulans without pointing a gun on their heads."
You maybe right, The federation (especially humankind) can't trust the romulans neither, but the vulcans do, while looking on Spock as example of reunification and peace and he is a Human/Vulcan Hybrid, and the romulans came from Rogue Vulcans.
That "Alliance" was necesary attempt to at least have advantage against the borg and stopping the sabotages, they maybe dishonorable dogs and sneaky TRIBBLE, but they are powerful enough to "eliminate" the borg.
The analogy would be if Washington, D.C. were destroyed, the various states in the United States would essentially become self-governing. Some of them, and some military forces, would probably try to band them back together to recreate the U.S. But I'd be willing to bet that some regions along the Canadian and Mexican borders would make economic and political ties with those nations in order to shore up their own local economies and defense.
Picard was able to intervene because of the Romulan plot. Apart from deploying legitimate Klingon succession rituals to buy more time to investigate he made clear that his participation was not as a representative of the Federation, but as an individual.
I'm not saying that the Prime Directive prohibits the aid of allies. I'm saying it prohibits the Federation from choosing who is and who is not an ally when dealing with the internal factions of another society.
Many online sources handily outline the multiple sub orders which enforce that principal.
I hope president Aennik Okeg, er I mean Captain Geko discusses his rationale in a LoR devblog.
They choose to ally. That doesn't mean you have to run Klingon content, or have to run content with Klingon players in order to progress. So no they don't become part of another faction, unless the individual chooses to enact the possibilities of the alliance. Furthermore, iirc, we simply don't know at this time if the shared mission running is a two way thing. We have heard that KDF/FED can be invited to run the Romulan missions (without unique mission rewards), but I haven't heard the opposite yet.
There were Klingons working for and with the Romulans throughout TNG.
I maintain that nothing Worf said about Klingons is reliable. He was a kid from a colony, raised on Earth by humans from age 5. Who learned about Klingons in books. A few short decades after we saw what little good books were for teaching a doctor like McCoy anything about Klingon medicine.
Worf was indicated by writers to be an unusually racist Klingon. Presumably Martok was as well.
I'd wager that in the view of te writers, the Khitomer Massacre wasn't some empire defining tragedy. It was probably a non-event for most Klingons. The fan culture has attempted to base too much of Klingon culture from the few Klingons we saw onscreen.
Beyond that, there is an overall divide we see in TNG. Some Klingons admire the Federation and hate Romulans. Some work with Romulans and hate the Federation.
We never consistently saw Klingons that hated both. What we did consistently see were Klingons loyal to one or the other as allies.
I personally think there is a giant rift in Klingon culture over what honor even means, rather than a consistent view. And half take one view and have a tough love attitude towards the Federation. And half have a totally different interpretation of honor and want to be allies with the Romulans.
And the two factions have been competing for the chancellorship for decades. Gorkon's death helped the pro-Federation, anti-Romulan Worf-style honor group. But the other group never went away or diminished in numbers and they reclaimed control with J'mpok. J'mpok probably has strong Romulan sympathies and launched an ineffectual attack on the Tal Shiar to silence critics who expected him to go soft on Romulans. But has wanted an alliance with the Romulans against the Federation all along.
Yeah too many folks use Worf's Klingon ideals as gospel. But forget the times Jadzi and even guinan pointed out how he wasn't like other Klingons.
He also really hated the romulans because they did kill his parents. Other Klingons might not be so bothered with the idea of working with them. Especially if it means victory in battle, because victory in battle is where true honor is earned who cares how that victory was made. Klingon history and songs will be re-written with what ever truth the winners choose.
surely if Washington was destroyed the USA would simply revert to its previous capital ??
Unofficially, a lot of Americans have supported both groups, either compromise or outright support of those groups. I recall that the IRA was once principally funded by private American contributions. And the U.S. would privately support allies of Hamas against the Soviets.
I think the Klingons hating the Romulans is overstated. We saw that WORF hated the Romulans and that Martok and Gowron seemed to sympathize. But major houses continued to ally with Romulans and J'Dan, a Klingon officer in the Federation exchange program, was a spy for the Romulans against the Federation. Look back at the scene from "The Drumhead" where Worf chastises J'Dan for siding with the Romulans. J'Dan basically just looks at Worf like he's crazy for not wanting to ally with the Romulans and for allying with the Federation.
Then in "Birthright", where Worf encounters the half-Klingon, half-Romulans, the stated intent of the writers was to show that Worf, individually, was unusually racist about Romulans. This is in all the commentaries and interviews. They never said one way or the other about how Klingons felt as far as I know but they did indicate that Worf's attitudes were not supposed to be typical. They were supposed to be disturbing. Worf's attitude towards the Romulans wasn't supposed to be normal or sympathetic to the audience and I find it highly unlikely they were meant to be taken as typical Klingon views.
Ok, then we are 10 Romulan players. 5 choose FED, 5 KDF. Can we create a new fleet? 10 FED players can do it, 10 KDF players can do it, can you see the point? So Romulans choose their "real" faction at level 10. Romulans have the special Cryptic faction new definition.
I find also weird the Romulan would ally with a great power. Someone mentioned Duras. It was not an alliance. The Romulan used the klingon to start a war with the fed and break the kling/fed alliance. The Duras used the Romulan to increase their own power. Nothing more.
The Romulan are not the kind to ally with someone else. They always have a hidden agenda, and will stop the "Alliance" once they reached their goals, or when it start smelling bad, which in case of the Klingon, always do.
I'd probably go one further and suggest that other Klingons may have thought that anyone killed by a stronger or smarter enemy basically had it coming to them.
And clearly, enough Klingons had little enough trouble with Romulans to have children with them. Or trade technology with them.
And I seem to recall that the Romulan Ambassador from the Undiscovered Country was indicated somewhere to be working on Chang's side of the conspiracy.
Then again, you can easily have all kinds of elaborate conspiracy theories about Romulans. They're suited to it. You could claim that they blew up Praxis and nobody would blink. It's telling that when Cryptic was looking for a scapegoat for how Romulus was really destroyed, they wound up having Romulans overseeing it. And anyone that good at conspiracies has allies everywhere.
I just wish we'd see more of Worf's reaction to all of this.
I could actually see, down the road, where they may expand alliances to the Fed and KDF in a way that might make them more like this Romulan faction.
Y'know, anti-war Feds who join Klingon fleets and anti-war Klingons who join Starfleet fleets.
I would assume a right thinking member of Either species High command would drop a plasma Torp on them given half a chance
its very hard to justify that as grounds for an alliance
"But Admiral the worst criminal scum on both sides have grandchildren in common"
Again, you're basing your views of Klingons on Klingon fans and a handful of Klingons seen onscreen.
Criminals
besides its not acceptable to either race to interbreed with "lesser " species
And that im afraid is true of most species in trek (including cardassians)
only the worst of criminals would hybridise on purpose in cardassian society
The Prime Directive is aimed at interactions with pre-warp technology cultures. Once a civilization develops warp capabilities, first contact is allowed, and the new civilization is welcomed into the galactic community. At that point, for example, if they want to join the Federation, the Federation will share technology with them, will defend them from outside attack, etc. etc. The Federation doesn't want to interfere in civilizations that are in their infancy, but once they acheive warp drive, they're considered a peer.
The Romulans are definitely not a pre-warp culture. Though I'm sure losing their central authority set back a lot of research (other than that being done in secret by the Tal'Shiar), the various Romulan worlds would still have access to the Romulan technology, weaponry, ships, etc. that they had before the Hobus incident. So the Prime Directive doesn't apply to such alliances. In fact, if you pay attention in many of the Federation missions in the Romulan sectors, Federation diplomats are actively seeking to bring former Romulan worlds into the Federation, treating them each as independent self-governing entities, since their central command structure has collapsed.
This may be true of the Romulans we've seen on the shows, but then, we've seen them on the shows because they're involved in galactic politics and plotting.
You have to remember that these are supposed to be whole civilizations we're talking about. Not every Romulan is a deceitful, manipulative backstabber any more than every Klingon is a hard-drinking, hard-travelling space pirate or mercenary. There are thousands, probably millions, of Klingon and Romulan farmers. And janitors. And brewers. And merchants. And bureaucrats. And scientists. And doctors. And writers. And teachers. Klingons and Romulans have families and children who they love and care about and spend time with teaching and playing games.
There's a certain type of Romulan who would end up appearing in a show chronicling the adventures of a Federation ship, but there are millions of other Romulans in the Empire who may be entirely different.
Before TNG if you'd told me Feds and Klinks really would be allies in a series I'd have laughed in your face, but we all knew it was coming. In Enterprise we learn the Xindi will join the Federation.
As far as the KDF and Roms, we know they were less hostile to each other in the past and traded technology. There's nothing to say that Romulan refugees cannot, likewise, become friends with the KDF.