Eh this thing was a hand out you had to buy for the set that was dictated by players who do not even play the KDF side. The whole concept of it needs a overhaul because any positive way you can look at it the QQ about it being too OP the feds got counters for most of the ships main attractions.
I will quote something from a dev "we did not design the bortasqu' to use cannons or torpedoes." Yet they slapped a big giant cannon that a chevy stuck in the mud could get away from lol. In reality all you will ever see is people getting disappointed as they keep their bortasqu' for storage and put their jem hadar sets on it.
Yes i agree with most of what u posted but guess this thread is no about pvp.i find
pvp meaningless and above all unfair for the ships kdf can give.for sure pvp with a bortasqu wont be the best option,id rather get a guramba but you ll miss cloaking though theres no ships to make a fair combat on pvp.maybe a negh var?a bop to dig battle cloak.or spend tons of money to maybe get a chance with a jem hadar that seems a great ship.this does not means that you cant pvp wiuh a bortas but you rather put all beams to have a wider angle of attack
I have had several bouts of trying to make this ship likeable for my tastes in PVP. Trust me when I say I wanted to like this ship package and make it work for me in PVP. But it's just underwhelming.
You CAN make it damn tough. You CAN make it a sturdy, support cruiser. The potential is there for good damage, but because the turn rate is so, so bad, that potential exists in only very specific and narrow circumstances.
It is, after all this time since its introduction and for all the history of STO, *still* the only Cruiser with 5 TAC Consoles. But again, that turn rate mitigates that advantage badly.
You can go a Federation-esque Beamboat build, but you're really not playing a KDF Battlecruiser anymore. You're trying to play an Odyssey, which is a better package, IMO, though I dislike how the ship looks.
I have had several bouts of trying to make this ship likeable for my tastes in PVP. Trust me when I say I wanted to like this ship package and make it work for me in PVP. But it's just underwhelming.
You CAN make it damn tough. You CAN make it a sturdy, support cruiser. The potential is there for good damage, but because the turn rate is so, so bad, that potential exists in only very specific and narrow circumstances.
It is, after all this time since its introduction and for all the history of STO, *still* the only Cruiser with 5 TAC Consoles. But again, that turn rate mitigates that advantage badly.
You can go a Federation-esque Beamboat build, but you're really not playing a KDF Battlecruiser anymore. You're trying to play an Odyssey, which is a better package, IMO, though I dislike how the ship looks.
Have you tried mitigating the turn rate with turrets? You'd be force to play a game of attrition though. Circle around, distributing shield strength appropriately with 8 turrets and 5 tac consoles focused on a single person. Probably need a good sci for cc or subnuke doffs to kill anything though.
In PvP only turrets builds are viable, since your turn rate is even too low to use beams efficiently. However, turrets + sensor analysis + DEMIII is killer :P
While I usually pvp with beams or single cannons with this ship, I have tried DHC on it just for lulz and its suprisingly effective in the hands of an experienced pilot. Romulan boffs make the cloak on this thing actually effective enough for me to get close and unleash a devastating decloaking alpha with this, and targets usually don't survive long enough to manuver out of the way. If they do, APO, evasives, aux to ID, and tractors let me keep up long enough to finish them off most of the time. After the decloaking alpha I just find Fed cruisers to pick on, I have no problem keeping most of them in DHC firing arc long enough for kills. Also the subspace snare can quickly give you another target to kill.
It also helps that it doesn't even occur to most people that a Bortasqu is using DHC and they don't realize they just have to stay out of its firing arc to survive.
I am geared and specced for max manuverability though and spend lots of time practicing with low turn ships, not everyone can pull this off but I have been top in dps and kills many times in pvp with DHC bortasqu.
Is the Bort worth fifty bucks? My view is that it, unlike the Oddyssey it's based on, no. It's not. Firepower means nothing if you can't bring it to bear, toughness means nothing if you can't escape the rain of fire, and the ability to mount DHC's means nothing if you can't get nose-on-target.
The Bort suffers greatly from simply being a Federation ship in a Klingon costume
I snipped some things out of the quote but put simply, it is not a Fed ship with a Klingon skin. There's no counterpart to it on the Fed side, the excelsior is more like the Vor'cha, the Sovereign is more like the Vor'Cha or K'tinga.
The Odyssey and Bortasqu' are similar, because they were designed to be, but are specialised for each faction: Odyssey tanks better but unless built well it's DPS is meager at best, the Bortasqu' tanks less, but packs a ton more firepower. Also, the Odyssey is a typical Fed tank, it can sit and survive with minimal effort, no skill required to fly, just keep going and keep your beams on target. The Bortasqu' takes care to handle, use it's Boff slots to equip tractor beams and use the snare wisely in battle and even escorts will struggle to match it.
As i've said before, it's not meant to be like a little Battlecruiser that is nimble but comparatively easier to kill (albeit by a fairly small amount) and can bring cannons to bear easier. It is a Battleship, the Flagship designed put out a pounding, and survive afterwards better than others.
If set-up to play its strengths, not copy and paste a Fed cruiser build which doesn't work as well, it can be a beast, i top DPS in STFs, PVP and PVE. Out-doing escorts by using brute force. The Auto-cannon, plus 4 DHCs with 5 tac consoles boosting it can put out more raw DPS than any other cruiser in the game with ease and match many escorts.
In my opinion, if you have the skill to fly a slow cruiser well, then this will be your dream ship, if not, you're going to flail like a beached whale like many do and come under the mistaken impression that it's the ship, not the pilot.
IIn my opinion, if you have the skill to fly a slow cruiser well, then this will be your dream ship, if not, you're going to flail like a beached whale like many do and come under the mistaken impression that it's the ship, not the pilot.
"A bad captain blames his ship for his failings"
You won't be able to convince many of the naysers about the Bortasqu, they already made up their mind its the ship at fault and not their piloting skill.
I think some of us need to make videos of this monster in action using DHC and autocannon to wipe out everything in the way in pve and pve. Maybe seeing how easy STFs are for a team of DHC Bortasqu could convince some to give the ship a try.
No. It's not worth it, and I found out the hard way. I cashed in dilithium from 5 toons , back when it was 350+dil/cryptic point and got the 3 pack for my KDF eng. It was the worst mistake I've ever made in the game. The Bortas handles like a city bus. One with flat tires, broken springs, and bad brakes. It can't even get out of it's own way. The autocannon useless against anything that moves.
After a few days of escorts sitting at at my 6 and blowing me to bits, I mothballed it and went back to my vor'cha retro.
I think some of us need to make videos of this monster in action using DHC and autocannon to wipe out everything in the way in pve and pve. Maybe seeing how easy STFs are for a team of DHC Bortasqu could convince some to give the ship a try.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I operate my dreadnought carrier with 2 Dual Cannons and 2 DHC (For visual effects when I fight, I know they both have the same DPS) how different is that from the Bartasque rolling all cannons?
I operate my dreadnought carrier with 2 Dual Cannons and 2 DHC (For visual effects when I fight, I know they both have the same DPS) how different is that from the Bartasque rolling all cannons?
Well the biggest things lie with:
1. The consoles. Having 4-5 tac consoles compared to the limited 3 of the Gal-X. Also the sci one has sensor analysis.
2. The Lt. Cmdr and Ensign universal slots. This gives you a LOT of options. You have to use the Cmdr Engineer, Lt. Sci, and Lt. Tac slots, but it allows you to slot other useful things as well, such as Omega 1, or TSS 3.
3. Bonus weapon power. This makes a surprisingly large difference. Because maxing out your weapon power, especially if using DHCs can be a potent thing to have, compared to the normal +5 across the board of the Gal-X.
4. The Autocannon acts as a normal weapon, and drains like a normal weapon when firing. As compared to the 'BO 3'-esque nature of the Phaser Lance, draining so much power.
Now, it does have some disadvantages compared to the Gal-X:
1. It's 'superweapon' takes a console slot and has a longer cooldown.
2. While the Gal-X needs a slot to cloak, and the Bortas has it's normal in-built cloak, the Bortas cloak is not as effective, and requires more skill and spec to pull off an alpha strike as such.
3. If running the Lt. Cmdr as a tac slot, the Bortas won't have the resiliency compared to a 'pure' cruiser with a Cmdr and Lt. Cmdr engineer or Lt. Cmdr science.
I will say that in a 1v1 fight, all things being equal, the two would probably be pretty equal presuming the same kinds of bonuses, rep choices, spec, captain choice, etc.
The Gal-X would be able to handle much of the Bortas' fire, but the Bortas in turn would be able to dish out some incredible damage, while living through enough of the Gal-X's fire to not insta-pop either.
To put it into perspective a bit, my Bortas can easily hit 10k crits with my DHCs without even using a single Tac buff.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
As much as it pains me to say it your right, seeing a bortasqu or even a galx with cannons in PVP just spells TARGET number 1
You can brag how good you are and how awesome your piloting skills and your use of ATD APO deuterium and evasive are but if you run into an escort or raptor with any close to decent sort of pilot in your dead meat as they will just sit on your tail with nothing you can do about it
And if you think I'm lying and you think your that good that I'm wrong your clearly deluded or taking illegal class a drugs
Now back on track I'm seriously thinking about buying one of these and wouldn't mind finding out somemore opinions on wether its worth it or not
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Is there any role that another ship can't do better?
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
if you run into an escort or raptor with any close to decent sort of pilot in your dead meat as they will just sit on your tail with nothing you can do about it
And if you think I'm lying and you think your that good that I'm wrong your clearly deluded or taking illegal class a drugs
Now back on track I'm seriously thinking about buying one of these and wouldn't mind finding out somemore opinions on wether its worth it or not
Any cruiser with a forward based arc can get an escort off their tail if they need to, even the best piloted ones. Me, and other Bortasqu's i have seen have fought some of the best escorts Kerrat has thrown at us. And while tractors beams can be interrupted and so can the snare, if you timing it right, and actually pay attention to what your enemy is doing, then it is possible. I have been in queued PVP and Kerrat, and have rarely ever been the first one targeted as everyone thinks like Patrickngo does, that the ship contributes nothing. When they're dead, they see otherwise.
I answered the original question by pointing out the ships advantages, since the you asked, if it's worth it. Shouldn't you find out from the people who fly it on a day to day basis successfully rather than someone who tried it, and then gave up trying. You seem to be only believing the negative side of the argument and ignoring everything else. If you planned on doing that in the first place then why ask.
And to answer the original question more directly, it is worth the $50 because it is fun to fly, but is also a challenge to build. If you want an easy ship to build and use, get an odyssey or a Vor'cha.
I own the pack and I just can't make it work in PvP. If you want to talk about how awesome it is in PvE, good for you.
There's exactly one thing this bad boy can do in PvP and that's a decloak alpha with the autocannon. DEM+Marion, APO, CRF, TB. But of course you're going to be running single cannons because she can't turn, so you might as well be flying a fed tac cruiser. If you really insist on DHCs you're going to be waiting for the jumper or the snare to come off cd to shoot at anything.
You can talk about how you can compensate for the turn rate, but why would you do that? You're spending resources that other ships don't need to. For what? 43k hull? The shield mod is only 1.
Other posters have eloquently laid out how the boff layout can be duplicated by more agile ships. The Bort was a crappy Oddy clone tossed to the KDF as an afterthought.
The Fleet Torkaht is superior in every way that matters.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Your definition of PVP is vastly different from mine. In pug PVP i fight independently within a team i need no support and request none.
Any cruiser with a forward based arc can get an escort off their tail if they need to, even the best piloted ones. Me, and other Bortasqu's i have seen have fought some of the best escorts Kerrat has thrown at us. And while tractors beams can be interrupted and so can the snare, if you timing it right, and actually pay attention to what your enemy is doing, then it is possible. I have been in queued PVP and Kerrat, and have rarely ever been the first one targeted as everyone thinks like Patrickngo does, that the ship contributes nothing. When they're dead, they see otherwise.
I answered the original question by pointing out the ships advantages, since the you asked, if it's worth it. Shouldn't you find out from the people who fly it on a day to day basis successfully rather than someone who tried it, and then gave up trying. You seem to be only believing the negative side of the argument and ignoring everything else. If you planned on doing that in the first place then why ask.
And to answer the original question more directly, it is worth the $50 because it is fun to fly, but is also a challenge to build. If you want an easy ship to build and use, get an odyssey or a Vor'cha.
So far, I have had great success in PVP with my Bortasqu', I paid the $50 to get my set. And comparing it to the dreadnought, the Bortasqu' in PVP is much, much for viable. (But then again, I don't have the JHAC pets) Overall I'm heavily pleased at the Bortasqu', I can wipe out an escort with a single click of my Disruptor autocannon, then just his subspace snare on an Oddyssey, hit assimilated tractor beam, point defense, rapid fire, and hit him hard with my cannons, and vwolla, Oddyssey is dead and crying in chat how I cheated.
Escorts jumping on me? Deploy HoH'SuS, hit reverse, either they let me get my guns on them, or my HoH'SuS destroys them with his 10k DPS cannons, and triple deployable transphasic torpedoes and tricobalt mines. Either way, escort players don't stand a chance. I have 24 escort kills in my Bortasqu' now, with 13 Dread kills, 5 Science ship kills, and 9 Cruiser kills. In my Guramba it's a bit funner for troll factor, but in my Bortasqu', it's ultiminately the biggest heavy hitter I"ve ever played with. As far as feel, and effect goes.
So far, I have had great success in PVP with my Bortasqu', I paid the $50 to get my set. And comparing it to the dreadnought, the Bortasqu' in PVP is much, much for viable. (But then again, I don't have the JHAC pets) Overall I'm heavily pleased at the Bortasqu', I can wipe out an escort with a single click of my Disruptor autocannon, then just his subspace snare on an Oddyssey, hit assimilated tractor beam, point defense, rapid fire, and hit him hard with my cannons, and vwolla, Oddyssey is dead and crying in chat how I cheated.
Escorts jumping on me? Deploy HoH'SuS, hit reverse, either they let me get my guns on them, or my HoH'SuS destroys them with his 10k DPS cannons, and triple deployable transphasic torpedoes and tricobalt mines. Either way, escort players don't stand a chance. I have 24 escort kills in my Bortasqu' now, with 13 Dread kills, 5 Science ship kills, and 9 Cruiser kills. In my Guramba it's a bit funner for troll factor, but in my Bortasqu', it's ultiminately the biggest heavy hitter I"ve ever played with. As far as feel, and effect goes.
Yeah, like I said, you've got the autocannon for whoever you can catch with it. The snare is countered by PH and APO which many builds chain.
This claim of the deployable Hoh'sus being anything other than worthless doesn't jive with anything I've ever seen out of it. 10k dps? Against what? Sorry dude, you're gonna have to back that up with some parse data. I've never seen a player die to it. Ever. Everything I highlighted seems... well... I chose the closest color to brown I could for a reason.
What is a triple deployable transphasic torpedo?
If your PvP effectiveness is completely tied to autocannon, snare, point defense, Hoh'sus pet... why not pick a ship that can get kills outside of console clickies?
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Yeah, like I said, you've got the autocannon for whoever you can catch with it. The snare is countered by PH and APO which many builds chain.
This claim of the deployable Hoh'sus being anything other than worthless doesn't jive with anything I've ever seen out of it. 10k dps? Against what? Sorry dude, you're gonna have to back that up with some parse data. I've never seen a player die to it. Ever. Everything I highlighted seems... well... I chose the closest color to brown I could for a reason.
What is a triple deployable transphasic torpedo?
If your PvP effectiveness is completely tied to autocannon, snare, point defense, Hoh'sus pet... why not pick a ship that can get kills outside of console clickies?
Just like the Hyper Plasma Torpedo Launcher, the HoH'SuS fires its transphasics in groups of 3.
As far as Parse Data, there is where I got the 10k DPS from. Against a player escort I had it on, it rolled 9,788 DPS, and killed the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. And FYI, reliance of subspace snare is minimal. I've had no issues at all, what so ever getting my guns on target.
Just like the Hyper Plasma Torpedo Launcher, the HoH'SuS fires its transphasics in groups of 3.
As far as Parse Data, there is where I got the 10k DPS from. Against a player escort I had it on, it rolled 9,788 DPS, and killed the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. And FYI, reliance of subspace snare is minimal. I've had no issues at all, what so ever getting my guns on target.
There? Where? I'm assuming you accidentally left out the hyperlink to the parse data. When I said you're going to have to back it up with parse data I meant you are going to have to actually back it up with parse data. This is the meta, friend, which is serious business, and a claim of 10k dps from NPC quad cannons is not worth the pixels it's displayed with if you can't back it up. You do understand that dps is damage per second? How are you measuring the encounter? Do your "seconds" start when the pet is deployed and end when it's destroyed? Or when the Hoh'sus actually gets the target into the quads arc instead of circling with turrets? That's not exactly honest dps reporting. Hell, you can only get the recharge to 150 sec by slotting all 3 consoles, so its true dps includes time when it's doing zero.
Fair's fair, though, I'm going to dust off my Bort tonight and see what the Hoh'sus can do. The Hoh'sus is notorious for circling a target and shooting turrets instead of lining up for the quads, and that was the Hoh'sus I saw when I tried it out. I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.
You're claiming that you have had no issues at all your guns on target so it's pretty much time to post your build. Although this:
I operate my dreadnought carrier with 2 Dual Cannons and 2 DHC (For visual effects when I fight, I know they both have the same DPS) how different is that from the Bartasque rolling all cannons?
tells me that you are new here.
There's still the glaring fact that you're advocating taking 3 single-use long cd consoles. These will never be as useful as the passives from the Temporal/Rom/Borg for the crits and the rest. The Bort consoles are toy consoles. They actually cut into the effectiveness of your build. Run all 3 and they cut deeply.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
There? Where? I'm assuming you accidentally left out the hyperlink to the parse data. When I said you're going to have to back it up with parse data I meant you are going to have to actually back it up with parse data. This is the meta, friend, which is serious business, and a claim of 10k dps from NPC quad cannons is not worth the pixels it's displayed with if you can't back it up. You do understand that dps is damage per second? How are you measuring the encounter? Do your "seconds" start when the pet is deployed and end when it's destroyed? Or when the Hoh'sus actually gets the target into the quads arc instead of circling with turrets? That's not exactly honest dps reporting. Hell, you can only get the recharge to 150 sec by slotting all 3 consoles, so its true dps includes time when it's doing zero.
Fair's fair, though, I'm going to dust off my Bort tonight and see what the Hoh'sus can do. The Hoh'sus is notorious for circling a target and shooting turrets instead of lining up for the quads, and that was the Hoh'sus I saw when I tried it out. I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.
You're claiming that you have had no issues at all your guns on target so it's pretty much time to post your build. Although this:
tells me that you are new here.
There's still the glaring fact that you're advocating taking 3 single-use long cd consoles. These will never be as useful as the passives from the Temporal/Rom/Borg for the crits and the rest. The Bort consoles are toy consoles. They actually cut into the effectiveness of your build. Run all 3 and they cut deeply.
When the HoH'SuS is deployed is when DPS is recorded.
HoH'SuS does not circle, I'm really not sure what you mean by that? (I've never seen the HoH'SuS circle a target)
All 3 consoles together, increase energy weapon specialization by +12, projectile weapon specialization by +12, and overall weapon accuracy by +12. Name one console with a passive effect that has that dramatic of an impact to increasing your ships combat ability, the advantage is miles greater than that given by the Fleet Maneuver Gamma.
When the HoH'SuS is deployed is when DPS is recorded.
HoH'SuS does not circle, I'm really not sure what you mean by that? (I've never seen the HoH'SuS circle a target)
All 3 consoles together, increase energy weapon specialization by +12, projectile weapon specialization by +12, and overall weapon accuracy by +12. Name one console with a passive effect that has that dramatic of an impact to increasing your ships combat ability, the advantage is miles greater than that given by the Fleet Maneuver Gamma.
You're off your rocker. I took the Hoh'sus into the Kahless Expanse. DPS from the quads against a miranda on normal is 14. Not 14k. 14.
10k dps v. PvP Defiant? Vids, or logs, or it didn't happen.
+12 to energy weapon specialization is about 1% crit. +12 projectile weapon damage (not specialization as you said) is about 60 damage added to a mk x white photon torp. I'm not convinced the targeting bonus is functional because it doesn't affect acc in the stat screen. Or if it does, it actually doesn't bump it a full percentage, which is possible.
So yeah, the Zero Point console would give about the same magnitude, and it's not a 3 piece.
Also I saw your build in another thread, and it's bad. Real bad. Quad cannons are sub-optimal. 4 beam arrays to go with your cannons? WTF? Here in the meta we like optimization.
Your claims are ludicrous. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting this nonsense.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
You're off your rocker. I took the Hoh'sus into the Kahless Expanse. DPS from the quads against a miranda on normal is 14. Not 14k. 14.
10k dps v. PvP Defiant? Vids, or logs, or it didn't happen.
+12 to energy weapon specialization is about 1% crit. +12 projectile weapon damage (not specialization as you said) is about 60 damage added to a mk x white photon torp. I'm not convinced the targeting bonus is functional because it doesn't affect acc in the stat screen. Or if it does, it actually doesn't bump it a full percentage, which is possible.
So yeah, the Zero Point console would give about the same magnitude, and it's not a 3 piece.
Also I saw your build in another thread, and it's bad. Real bad. Quad cannons are sub-optimal. 4 beam arrays to go with your cannons? WTF? Here in the meta we like optimization.
Your claims are ludicrous. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting this nonsense.
Nope, +12 to energy weapon specialization skill, is +4% crit.
And nope, it says +12 Projectile Weapon Specialization.
The ACC is passive to the weapons.
With +12% to starship targetting systems, that increase your chance of crit by another +4%.
Meanin in total, you have up to a +8%crit chance. Higher than any single module in this game has.
And I retract my statement of specialization for projectile, however, looking into the skill for it, that is over 320 damage increase for a mk x common photon torpedo.
How do I know this? I put on a mk x common torpedo with all 3, and without all 3, and then back to all 3 being on. For a mk XII Fleet Photon Torpedo, it increased the damage by 570.
Nope, +12 to energy weapon specialization skill, is +4% crit.
And nope, it says +12 Projectile Weapon Specialization.
The ACC is passive to the weapons.
When you put 99 points into Energy Weapon Specialization, you increase your crit by 2%. That means skilling it all the way through green, yellow, and red. This is a little off in some areas but still relevant for this discussion. +12 would take your skill to 111 points. This would take you to roughly 2.23%.
Welcome to STO math.
STO wiki agrees with me that it is Projectile Weapons Damage, not specialization, and it is correct. I can't be arsed to post a screenshot of you being wrong, so I'll leave it to you to screenshot you being right. Wiki agrees with me anyway.
Are we playing the same game? Cause my Interceptors and Marauding Force both slot to my Jem HEC, my Bortas pet is TRIBBLE, and my 3 piece Bort set bonus is negligible. Also, my game and math agree with posted information from the wiki and user testing.
With +12% to starship targetting systems, that increase your chance of crit by another +4%.
Meanin in total, you have up to a +8%crit chance. Higher than any single module in this game has.
And I retract my statement of specialization for projectile, however, looking into the skill for it, that is over 320 damage increase for a mk x common photon torpedo.
How do I know this? I put on a mk x common torpedo with all 3, and without all 3, and then back to all 3 being on. For a mk XII Fleet Photon Torpedo, it increased the damage by 570.
You are wrong. Screenshot the change.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
When you put 99 points into Energy Weapon Specialization, you increase your crit by 2%. That means skilling it all the way through green, yellow, and red. This is a little off in some areas but still relevant for this discussion. +12 would take your skill to 111 points. This would take you to roughly 2.23%.
Welcome to STO math.
STO wiki agrees with me that it is Projectile Weapons Damage, not specialization, and it is correct. I can't be arsed to post a screenshot of you being wrong, so I'll leave it to you to screenshot you being right. Wiki agrees with me anyway.
Are we playing the same game? Cause my Interceptors and Marauding Force both slot to my Jem HEC, my Bortas pet is TRIBBLE, and my 3 piece Bort set bonus is negligible. Also, my game and math agree with posted information from the wiki and user testing.
You are wrong. Screenshot the change.
Grab your Bortasqu', equip all 3 modules + a photon torpedo launcher mk 12. Then remove one of the modules.
You can see the change yourself.
Unless you don't have the full set and are whining about it?
I can't screenshot the change, because I need my mouse to highlight the icon to show the change, when I change to snippet or photopro, it takes it off the highlight scroll, taking a photo of my console without highlights.
And the link to the tables are helpful, but need a second source to verify math.
Grab your Bortasqu', equip all 3 modules + a photon torpedo launcher mk 12. Then remove one of the modules.
You can see the change yourself.
Unless you don't have the full set and are whining about it?
I can't screenshot the change, because I need my mouse to highlight the icon to show the change, when I change to snippet or photopro, it takes it off the highlight scroll, taking a photo of my console without highlights.
And the link to the tables are helpful, but need a second source to verify math.
Mk IX white photon torp goes from 3931 to 4012.
Your crit % claims are ludicrous as well. +12 to targeting =/= +4% crit rate.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Comments
I will quote something from a dev "we did not design the bortasqu' to use cannons or torpedoes." Yet they slapped a big giant cannon that a chevy stuck in the mud could get away from lol. In reality all you will ever see is people getting disappointed as they keep their bortasqu' for storage and put their jem hadar sets on it.
pvp meaningless and above all unfair for the ships kdf can give.for sure pvp with a bortasqu wont be the best option,id rather get a guramba but you ll miss cloaking though theres no ships to make a fair combat on pvp.maybe a negh var?a bop to dig battle cloak.or spend tons of money to maybe get a chance with a jem hadar that seems a great ship.this does not means that you cant pvp wiuh a bortas but you rather put all beams to have a wider angle of attack
You CAN make it damn tough. You CAN make it a sturdy, support cruiser. The potential is there for good damage, but because the turn rate is so, so bad, that potential exists in only very specific and narrow circumstances.
It is, after all this time since its introduction and for all the history of STO, *still* the only Cruiser with 5 TAC Consoles. But again, that turn rate mitigates that advantage badly.
You can go a Federation-esque Beamboat build, but you're really not playing a KDF Battlecruiser anymore. You're trying to play an Odyssey, which is a better package, IMO, though I dislike how the ship looks.
Have you tried mitigating the turn rate with turrets? You'd be force to play a game of attrition though. Circle around, distributing shield strength appropriately with 8 turrets and 5 tac consoles focused on a single person. Probably need a good sci for cc or subnuke doffs to kill anything though.
While I usually pvp with beams or single cannons with this ship, I have tried DHC on it just for lulz and its suprisingly effective in the hands of an experienced pilot. Romulan boffs make the cloak on this thing actually effective enough for me to get close and unleash a devastating decloaking alpha with this, and targets usually don't survive long enough to manuver out of the way. If they do, APO, evasives, aux to ID, and tractors let me keep up long enough to finish them off most of the time. After the decloaking alpha I just find Fed cruisers to pick on, I have no problem keeping most of them in DHC firing arc long enough for kills. Also the subspace snare can quickly give you another target to kill.
It also helps that it doesn't even occur to most people that a Bortasqu is using DHC and they don't realize they just have to stay out of its firing arc to survive.
I am geared and specced for max manuverability though and spend lots of time practicing with low turn ships, not everyone can pull this off but I have been top in dps and kills many times in pvp with DHC bortasqu.
I snipped some things out of the quote but put simply, it is not a Fed ship with a Klingon skin. There's no counterpart to it on the Fed side, the excelsior is more like the Vor'cha, the Sovereign is more like the Vor'Cha or K'tinga.
The Odyssey and Bortasqu' are similar, because they were designed to be, but are specialised for each faction: Odyssey tanks better but unless built well it's DPS is meager at best, the Bortasqu' tanks less, but packs a ton more firepower. Also, the Odyssey is a typical Fed tank, it can sit and survive with minimal effort, no skill required to fly, just keep going and keep your beams on target. The Bortasqu' takes care to handle, use it's Boff slots to equip tractor beams and use the snare wisely in battle and even escorts will struggle to match it.
As i've said before, it's not meant to be like a little Battlecruiser that is nimble but comparatively easier to kill (albeit by a fairly small amount) and can bring cannons to bear easier. It is a Battleship, the Flagship designed put out a pounding, and survive afterwards better than others.
If set-up to play its strengths, not copy and paste a Fed cruiser build which doesn't work as well, it can be a beast, i top DPS in STFs, PVP and PVE. Out-doing escorts by using brute force. The Auto-cannon, plus 4 DHCs with 5 tac consoles boosting it can put out more raw DPS than any other cruiser in the game with ease and match many escorts.
In my opinion, if you have the skill to fly a slow cruiser well, then this will be your dream ship, if not, you're going to flail like a beached whale like many do and come under the mistaken impression that it's the ship, not the pilot.
"A bad captain blames his ship for his failings"
You won't be able to convince many of the naysers about the Bortasqu, they already made up their mind its the ship at fault and not their piloting skill.
I think some of us need to make videos of this monster in action using DHC and autocannon to wipe out everything in the way in pve and pve. Maybe seeing how easy STFs are for a team of DHC Bortasqu could convince some to give the ship a try.
After a few days of escorts sitting at at my 6 and blowing me to bits, I mothballed it and went back to my vor'cha retro.
I wouldn't mind helping out with this somehow.
Well the biggest things lie with:
1. The consoles. Having 4-5 tac consoles compared to the limited 3 of the Gal-X. Also the sci one has sensor analysis.
2. The Lt. Cmdr and Ensign universal slots. This gives you a LOT of options. You have to use the Cmdr Engineer, Lt. Sci, and Lt. Tac slots, but it allows you to slot other useful things as well, such as Omega 1, or TSS 3.
3. Bonus weapon power. This makes a surprisingly large difference. Because maxing out your weapon power, especially if using DHCs can be a potent thing to have, compared to the normal +5 across the board of the Gal-X.
4. The Autocannon acts as a normal weapon, and drains like a normal weapon when firing. As compared to the 'BO 3'-esque nature of the Phaser Lance, draining so much power.
Now, it does have some disadvantages compared to the Gal-X:
1. It's 'superweapon' takes a console slot and has a longer cooldown.
2. While the Gal-X needs a slot to cloak, and the Bortas has it's normal in-built cloak, the Bortas cloak is not as effective, and requires more skill and spec to pull off an alpha strike as such.
3. If running the Lt. Cmdr as a tac slot, the Bortas won't have the resiliency compared to a 'pure' cruiser with a Cmdr and Lt. Cmdr engineer or Lt. Cmdr science.
I will say that in a 1v1 fight, all things being equal, the two would probably be pretty equal presuming the same kinds of bonuses, rep choices, spec, captain choice, etc.
The Gal-X would be able to handle much of the Bortas' fire, but the Bortas in turn would be able to dish out some incredible damage, while living through enough of the Gal-X's fire to not insta-pop either.
To put it into perspective a bit, my Bortas can easily hit 10k crits with my DHCs without even using a single Tac buff.
You can brag how good you are and how awesome your piloting skills and your use of ATD APO deuterium and evasive are but if you run into an escort or raptor with any close to decent sort of pilot in your dead meat as they will just sit on your tail with nothing you can do about it
And if you think I'm lying and you think your that good that I'm wrong your clearly deluded or taking illegal class a drugs
Now back on track I'm seriously thinking about buying one of these and wouldn't mind finding out somemore opinions on wether its worth it or not
Is there any role that another ship can't do better?
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Functionally? no, not really.
Cosmetically/style-wise though, there's not many ships that have the same kind of 'presence' as a Bortas roaring onto the battlefield.
I still get a kick out of going toe-toe with tac cubes with my Bortas even though I've got other stuff that outperforms the ship in every way.
Your definition of PVP is vastly different from mine. In pug PVP i fight independently within a team i need no support and request none.
Any cruiser with a forward based arc can get an escort off their tail if they need to, even the best piloted ones. Me, and other Bortasqu's i have seen have fought some of the best escorts Kerrat has thrown at us. And while tractors beams can be interrupted and so can the snare, if you timing it right, and actually pay attention to what your enemy is doing, then it is possible. I have been in queued PVP and Kerrat, and have rarely ever been the first one targeted as everyone thinks like Patrickngo does, that the ship contributes nothing. When they're dead, they see otherwise.
I answered the original question by pointing out the ships advantages, since the you asked, if it's worth it. Shouldn't you find out from the people who fly it on a day to day basis successfully rather than someone who tried it, and then gave up trying. You seem to be only believing the negative side of the argument and ignoring everything else. If you planned on doing that in the first place then why ask.
And to answer the original question more directly, it is worth the $50 because it is fun to fly, but is also a challenge to build. If you want an easy ship to build and use, get an odyssey or a Vor'cha.
There's exactly one thing this bad boy can do in PvP and that's a decloak alpha with the autocannon. DEM+Marion, APO, CRF, TB. But of course you're going to be running single cannons because she can't turn, so you might as well be flying a fed tac cruiser. If you really insist on DHCs you're going to be waiting for the jumper or the snare to come off cd to shoot at anything.
You can talk about how you can compensate for the turn rate, but why would you do that? You're spending resources that other ships don't need to. For what? 43k hull? The shield mod is only 1.
Other posters have eloquently laid out how the boff layout can be duplicated by more agile ships. The Bort was a crappy Oddy clone tossed to the KDF as an afterthought.
The Fleet Torkaht is superior in every way that matters.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
So far, I have had great success in PVP with my Bortasqu', I paid the $50 to get my set. And comparing it to the dreadnought, the Bortasqu' in PVP is much, much for viable. (But then again, I don't have the JHAC pets) Overall I'm heavily pleased at the Bortasqu', I can wipe out an escort with a single click of my Disruptor autocannon, then just his subspace snare on an Oddyssey, hit assimilated tractor beam, point defense, rapid fire, and hit him hard with my cannons, and vwolla, Oddyssey is dead and crying in chat how I cheated.
Escorts jumping on me? Deploy HoH'SuS, hit reverse, either they let me get my guns on them, or my HoH'SuS destroys them with his 10k DPS cannons, and triple deployable transphasic torpedoes and tricobalt mines. Either way, escort players don't stand a chance. I have 24 escort kills in my Bortasqu' now, with 13 Dread kills, 5 Science ship kills, and 9 Cruiser kills. In my Guramba it's a bit funner for troll factor, but in my Bortasqu', it's ultiminately the biggest heavy hitter I"ve ever played with. As far as feel, and effect goes.
This claim of the deployable Hoh'sus being anything other than worthless doesn't jive with anything I've ever seen out of it. 10k dps? Against what? Sorry dude, you're gonna have to back that up with some parse data. I've never seen a player die to it. Ever. Everything I highlighted seems... well... I chose the closest color to brown I could for a reason.
What is a triple deployable transphasic torpedo?
If your PvP effectiveness is completely tied to autocannon, snare, point defense, Hoh'sus pet... why not pick a ship that can get kills outside of console clickies?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Just like the Hyper Plasma Torpedo Launcher, the HoH'SuS fires its transphasics in groups of 3.
As far as Parse Data, there is where I got the 10k DPS from. Against a player escort I had it on, it rolled 9,788 DPS, and killed the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. And FYI, reliance of subspace snare is minimal. I've had no issues at all, what so ever getting my guns on target.
Fair's fair, though, I'm going to dust off my Bort tonight and see what the Hoh'sus can do. The Hoh'sus is notorious for circling a target and shooting turrets instead of lining up for the quads, and that was the Hoh'sus I saw when I tried it out. I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.
You're claiming that you have had no issues at all your guns on target so it's pretty much time to post your build. Although this: tells me that you are new here.
There's still the glaring fact that you're advocating taking 3 single-use long cd consoles. These will never be as useful as the passives from the Temporal/Rom/Borg for the crits and the rest. The Bort consoles are toy consoles. They actually cut into the effectiveness of your build. Run all 3 and they cut deeply.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
When the HoH'SuS is deployed is when DPS is recorded.
HoH'SuS does not circle, I'm really not sure what you mean by that? (I've never seen the HoH'SuS circle a target)
All 3 consoles together, increase energy weapon specialization by +12, projectile weapon specialization by +12, and overall weapon accuracy by +12. Name one console with a passive effect that has that dramatic of an impact to increasing your ships combat ability, the advantage is miles greater than that given by the Fleet Maneuver Gamma.
10k dps v. PvP Defiant? Vids, or logs, or it didn't happen.
+12 to energy weapon specialization is about 1% crit. +12 projectile weapon damage (not specialization as you said) is about 60 damage added to a mk x white photon torp. I'm not convinced the targeting bonus is functional because it doesn't affect acc in the stat screen. Or if it does, it actually doesn't bump it a full percentage, which is possible.
So yeah, the Zero Point console would give about the same magnitude, and it's not a 3 piece.
Also I saw your build in another thread, and it's bad. Real bad. Quad cannons are sub-optimal. 4 beam arrays to go with your cannons? WTF? Here in the meta we like optimization.
Your claims are ludicrous. Your build is bad and you should feel bad for posting this nonsense.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Nope, +12 to energy weapon specialization skill, is +4% crit.
And nope, it says +12 Projectile Weapon Specialization.
The ACC is passive to the weapons.
With +12% to starship targetting systems, that increase your chance of crit by another +4%.
Meanin in total, you have up to a +8%crit chance. Higher than any single module in this game has.
And I retract my statement of specialization for projectile, however, looking into the skill for it, that is over 320 damage increase for a mk x common photon torpedo.
How do I know this? I put on a mk x common torpedo with all 3, and without all 3, and then back to all 3 being on. For a mk XII Fleet Photon Torpedo, it increased the damage by 570.
When you put 99 points into Energy Weapon Specialization, you increase your crit by 2%. That means skilling it all the way through green, yellow, and red. This is a little off in some areas but still relevant for this discussion. +12 would take your skill to 111 points. This would take you to roughly 2.23%.
Welcome to STO math.
STO wiki agrees with me that it is Projectile Weapons Damage, not specialization, and it is correct. I can't be arsed to post a screenshot of you being wrong, so I'll leave it to you to screenshot you being right. Wiki agrees with me anyway.
Are we playing the same game? Cause my Interceptors and Marauding Force both slot to my Jem HEC, my Bortas pet is TRIBBLE, and my 3 piece Bort set bonus is negligible. Also, my game and math agree with posted information from the wiki and user testing.
You are wrong. Screenshot the change.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Grab your Bortasqu', equip all 3 modules + a photon torpedo launcher mk 12. Then remove one of the modules.
You can see the change yourself.
Unless you don't have the full set and are whining about it?
I can't screenshot the change, because I need my mouse to highlight the icon to show the change, when I change to snippet or photopro, it takes it off the highlight scroll, taking a photo of my console without highlights.
And the link to the tables are helpful, but need a second source to verify math.
Mk IX white photon torp goes from 3931 to 4012.
Your crit % claims are ludicrous as well. +12 to targeting =/= +4% crit rate.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Show more than one table verifying the previous table on skill points.
That said, my Mk XII (Advanced Fleet Photon Torpedo Mk XII DMGX3 Acc)
Goes from:4217 to 4495