All good and well with going to a other fleetbase and use your fleet stuff there.
But it still doesn't help out the main problem of completing the fleetbase it self.
That problem is still dilithium : your in a fleet you got a starbase you want to compleet it.
This still kills small fleet because of the hassel of going to difrent fleet base every time you need somthing people just will not do that.
The agrovating thing is every thing being put in new in sto will cost Dilithium and not a little bit 28k for mk 12 wapons for your ship in the new reputation thing 28k x6 beams as a minimum for a cruiser you can only rifine 8k a day.
here's my questions to you. just questions i wanna understand you and everyone that is not happy with how the fleet holdings is set up for small fleets (which i will assume is 5-30 people) can answer
1. why are you in a small fleet?
2. do you feel a connection within your small, tight knit group?
3. if it is a fleet based on a community you feel comfortable with and will presumably be with for the forseeable future, why does building something as massively resource straining as a optional starbase or other optional holdings will "kill your small fleet"?
16k Dilithium and 10k Fleet Credits. I'm pretty sure it was 16k dil, I'm not completely sure on the fleet credits, it wasn't a lot though.
I remember hearing you have to pay Zen for each character?
No zen to buy it, but you do have to spend the Dil and FC's for each character, it's not an account wide unlock.
Do you need to pay Zen to unlock it for BOFFs too?
I don't know if Boff's can wear it. I've never tried so I don't know one way or the other. I should actually try that, but perhaps someone else knows for sure one way or the other.
Well consider that most others cost between 250 and 500 zen. Which at the current conversion rate is 24k to 48k Dilithium. Yes those are account wide, but they're also still a lot more.
Indeed - one of the main problems that makes it hard for small fleets is dilithium - unless the leader or hes friends happen to be heavy cash users and just buy the dilithium.
At current speed, the fleet im in will reach tier 4 in about 2 years.
All the other resources are ok - all the projects slow down and get stuck behind dilithium.
So what would a normal player do? join a random cheap fleet, get soem fleet credit - then leave and look for a T4/T5 large fleet.
Wait so you're *complaining* about an MMO in which you have to massively grind and/or pay out the nose to get the best items in the game?
If you are in a small fleet and is needing of fleet gear but do not have a high enough tier to get what you want, there is an ingame solution already.
1. Get provisions for what you need from your own starbase.
2. Get invited to a fleetstarbase which is sufficiently advanced for the gear you want.
3. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR FLEET
4. Use the fleet starbase facillities to buy your gear, using YOUR provisions
Example:
Player A of Family Fleet needs Elite Fleet Weapons, he requests an invite tfrom Player B of Giant Fleet to Giant Fleet`s starbase.
Player A buys gear from Giant FLeet Starbase using Family Fleet Provisions.
Player A is geared! Player A did not leave Family Fleet.
Just curious where do the provisions get stored? How does it know to use your fleet's provisions?
What happens if the person who wants to get invited, is not a part of any fleet. Who's provisions does it use then?
I would assume it blocks that person from buying anything, but I have not tested it as of yet....
Just curious where do the provisions get stored? How does it know to use your fleet's provisions?
It's calculated by the server. The fleet has it's own "currency tabs" (for lack of a better description) that track all of the myriad provisioning types. For now it's broken down into Starbase and Embassy provisions (you click the "Provisions" sub-tab on each of the holding-specific sub-pages to see it), but I expect that to increase as new holdings get added.
Our fleet is around 15 active players, we have a tier 4 starbase, tier 2 embassy on FED and KDF. This is due to our enormous dedication of our small membership.
It make take along time to hit Tier 5, but we got most of the goodies so far, with hundreds of provisions to share. We have never had an issue of not being able to donate to projects or have enough provisions for people to buy. We have all featured project upgrades done as well.
A small fleet is much better, we all know each other, have a nice community with ideals and everyone can make a contribution and feel like they are making a difference. Rather than be in a mega fleet fighting over being able to donate or have purchase ability from the fleet stores.
Well the fleet I was in had 3 active members that contributed and helped build the star base from season 7 to about a month ago now. We hit T3 but hadn't started the embassy and we were happy about that but I decided to work out how much it would cost in dilithium to upgrade to T5 via the shipyard.
Worked out it would be about 20 million dilithium and that the embassy would be another 6 million. So between the 3 of us we decided its not really worth it and that kind of a grind was not fun. We had a look to see if we could contribute our resources to a bigger fleet where projects will get done if we don't log in and grind fleet marks and dilithium daily. So we have joined another fleet and we're enjoying different content now and not having to work constantly on the star base.
Now we did manage to get some new members since season 7, two or three of them joined, then practically ignored any communication from the fleet and never contributed, they didn't get access to the stores. We had three other players that did contribute mainly fleet marks but I have a feeling they were starting to get bored with grinding them after a few days.
We usually chatted to people we found that didn't have a fleet and tried to sway them but when they found we were only T3 they just stopped responding to us. We had no drama, no massive rules except be polite to other members and 100k contribution to get access to the store. The problem is with some fleets hitting T5 already very few want to join less than a T4 now and you can see people looking for this in zone chat.
Yes we could have got everything maxed in a year through what felt like an endless oppressive grind but then we would have no fun and who knows what other extensions they'll add (and there's room for at least 3 more) by that time or how much it will cost. Regardless everyone in our fleet followed us to the new fleet, even those returning since leaving in season 7 have transferred over with us.
Just thought I'd share the experience I've had. I wish we could have got to T5 with our own base but it was too much of a grind and we were putting everything in with getting little back from it.
As regards to the OP I've always thought having a limit to joining fleets of a max of 3 fleets a week and scaling projects on numbers of members would have been a better idea. Yes it could have been abused by large organised fleets with hundreds of active members but it would not have been easy.
A small fleet is much better, we all know each other, have a nice community with ideals and everyone can make a contribution and feel like they are making a difference. Rather than be in a mega fleet fighting over being able to donate or have purchase ability from the fleet stores.
I completely agree. I'm in a small fleet with maybe 15-20 active players any we haven't really had any issues funding star-base projects. We're not up to Tier 5 yet but we're a good way into tier 4 and going strong. We even have a Klingon-side fleet although since we don't all play Klingon it's lagging somewhat compared to our Fed starbase (about half way into tier 3).
As regards to the OP I've always thought having a limit to joining fleets of a max of 3 fleets a week and scaling projects on numbers of members would have been a better idea. Yes it could have been abused by large organised fleets with hundreds of active members but it would not have been easy.
The problem with scaling projects is that it hurts small fleets with inactive members. I know in the case of my fleet we have a lot of inactive characters that are either the alts of our active members or the characters of friends who used to play but have since quit. With a system like this we'd basically have to boot them all in order to avoid excessive star base costs.
Well with just 3 people and a hell of a lot of hard work (yes it felt like work) we managed to get to T3 and we had no more than 70 (probably 50) inactive or alt characters. Even at a 50% discount it would have eased the strain considerably. Scaling wouldn't hurt a small fleet unless you were a massive fleet that has become inactive and even then it would be no worse than it currently is.
If large numbers go inactive for long periods you could send them a mail saying the fleet is downsizing to reduce costs. Most people would understand and rejoin, if not, well you're a smaller fleet now with reduced costs and manageable projects and upgrades.
I suggested something similar in zone chat once, got as good a reception as claiming obi wan kenobi was the best starship captain.
I would agree with reduced costs but as far as I can tell the reason projects cost as much as they do and why upgrades have the completion deadlines was so no fleet would advance too fast. However I do not agree that a smaller fleet should have the reduced cost but unlock everything 2-3 times longer. I've come across your proposal before and it would be easier on small fleets but it would also gimp them in the long run as they would still take forever to unlock the new stuff.
Cryptic rejected scaling because (as they said) it was too exploitable, so a large fleet could have a lot of members leave, slot projects at a reduced cost and then they join again to fill them. A limit on number of fleets you could join in a week coupled with scaling would not only have solved the scaling problem but it would also have prevented the bank raiders. However it would still provide opportunities to sell access to large fleets. The real reason this wasn't implemented is the same reason we won't see small fleets getting a break in requirements. Cryptic wants to sell Zen. They want you to buy Zen to convert to dilithium to fill the projects.
There are many ideas and ways to have made it fair and non exploitable but absolutely non of them would create a massive demand for dilithium and get people to buy Zen.
Want to hear another thing they could have done? Have lower costs, longer times like you say but have 1 tier to begin with and it's unlock. Then released T2 after a month. T3 after another 2 months and staggered it that way to prevent too much advancement too fast. If you look at the reasons for why Cryptic did what they did, there are many ways that it could have been done better. If you look at it from a "we need to sell Zen" it supports the current model.
What happens if the person who wants to get invited, is not a part of any fleet. Who's provisions does it use then?
I would assume it blocks that person from buying anything, but I have not tested it as of yet....
you need to have access to a fleet's provisions to buy fleet gear. My assumption is that you will be blocked from any fleet gear regardless of previous Fleet Credit accumulation as you dont have permission to access a Fleet Provisions pool (by virtue of being fleetless)
you need to have access to a fleet's provisions to buy fleet gear. My assumption is that you will be blocked from any fleet gear regardless of previous Fleet Credit accumulation as you dont have permission to access a Fleet Provisions pool (by virtue of being fleetless)
Well presumably you could still purchase the times that don't require fleet provisions (DOffs for example).
Simple solution to people "selling" access to Tier 5 fleets. Treat them the same as Gold or EC Farmers... Ban em
here's the thing tho, the method i described isnt made obvious by any tooltip or literature by Cryptic. There's always benefit of a doubt because of how this info isnt general knowledge.
Plus, you need to be part of the fleet if you want to buy a fleet ship (and only fleetships)
I don't think anything needs to be changed, there are plenty of large fleets that are recruiting. A small fleet shouldn't be able to complete with a large fleet, certain tiers and projects shouldn't even be accessible unless you a minimum number of members and if everything was made too cheap and too easy people would be clamoring sooner and more often for more content, more this , more that, simply because it was too easy for them to get all the existing toys.
Frankly there are way too many fleets to begin with, it's way too easy to start a fleet and the current system is working as intended if it's helping to put the mickey mouse operators that can't compete out of business.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I see what you mean valoreah, Cryptic will not reduce the dilithium costs though as they are selling a lot of Zen for conversion to dilithium. Also even with only 3 of us dilithium was never a problem to get, we could complete 3 STFs in 20mins, then switch toons and run again. Within an hour we had 60k between us refined. Sometimes more sometimes less. It was the fleet marks and the spending of fleet creds on doff packs that was killing us, that and knowing if we took a day off that the projects would not get filled and progress would not be made.
Either way much happier in a bigger fleet, we contribute what we can but we know that we don't have to go off making sure we have enough dilithium, marks, doffs and ec to buy all these commodities within 20 hours of filling a project. The projects will get done usually in an hour or two of coming up and are finished daily.
people cried for another set of goals to throw resources at to get better stuff.
the starbase, embassy and rep system is exactly that.
much easier goal than balanced diverse endgame systems with multiple directions of specialisation that doesnt give clear gear advantage.
starbase, embassy and rep system are just the way PW forces you to spend resources for nothing... simply because at the end you have always to pay to get every gear/buff.
When you go shopping, do you pay to enter into the shop?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Comments
here's my questions to you. just questions i wanna understand you and everyone that is not happy with how the fleet holdings is set up for small fleets (which i will assume is 5-30 people) can answer
1. why are you in a small fleet?
2. do you feel a connection within your small, tight knit group?
3. if it is a fleet based on a community you feel comfortable with and will presumably be with for the forseeable future, why does building something as massively resource straining as a optional starbase or other optional holdings will "kill your small fleet"?
4. Why are the alternatives of getting fleet quality gear (barring ships) than grinding out your own optional starbase (or other holdings)? see: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8817971&postcount=16
5. Is it just about fleet ships? (which i believe should also be available to use in invited starbase maps but it the way it is)
6. Can your small fleet understand if you need to pop out of your small fleet to buy the fleet ship you want and get invited back in?
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
16k Dilithium and 10k Fleet Credits. I'm pretty sure it was 16k dil, I'm not completely sure on the fleet credits, it wasn't a lot though.
No zen to buy it, but you do have to spend the Dil and FC's for each character, it's not an account wide unlock.
I don't know if Boff's can wear it. I've never tried so I don't know one way or the other. I should actually try that, but perhaps someone else knows for sure one way or the other.
Well consider that most others cost between 250 and 500 zen. Which at the current conversion rate is 24k to 48k Dilithium. Yes those are account wide, but they're also still a lot more.
Wait so you're *complaining* about an MMO in which you have to massively grind and/or pay out the nose to get the best items in the game?
Really'/?s
They're all like that.
Just curious where do the provisions get stored? How does it know to use your fleet's provisions?
I would assume it blocks that person from buying anything, but I have not tested it as of yet....
It's calculated by the server. The fleet has it's own "currency tabs" (for lack of a better description) that track all of the myriad provisioning types. For now it's broken down into Starbase and Embassy provisions (you click the "Provisions" sub-tab on each of the holding-specific sub-pages to see it), but I expect that to increase as new holdings get added.
It make take along time to hit Tier 5, but we got most of the goodies so far, with hundreds of provisions to share. We have never had an issue of not being able to donate to projects or have enough provisions for people to buy. We have all featured project upgrades done as well.
A small fleet is much better, we all know each other, have a nice community with ideals and everyone can make a contribution and feel like they are making a difference. Rather than be in a mega fleet fighting over being able to donate or have purchase ability from the fleet stores.
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Worked out it would be about 20 million dilithium and that the embassy would be another 6 million. So between the 3 of us we decided its not really worth it and that kind of a grind was not fun. We had a look to see if we could contribute our resources to a bigger fleet where projects will get done if we don't log in and grind fleet marks and dilithium daily. So we have joined another fleet and we're enjoying different content now and not having to work constantly on the star base.
Now we did manage to get some new members since season 7, two or three of them joined, then practically ignored any communication from the fleet and never contributed, they didn't get access to the stores. We had three other players that did contribute mainly fleet marks but I have a feeling they were starting to get bored with grinding them after a few days.
We usually chatted to people we found that didn't have a fleet and tried to sway them but when they found we were only T3 they just stopped responding to us. We had no drama, no massive rules except be polite to other members and 100k contribution to get access to the store. The problem is with some fleets hitting T5 already very few want to join less than a T4 now and you can see people looking for this in zone chat.
Yes we could have got everything maxed in a year through what felt like an endless oppressive grind but then we would have no fun and who knows what other extensions they'll add (and there's room for at least 3 more) by that time or how much it will cost. Regardless everyone in our fleet followed us to the new fleet, even those returning since leaving in season 7 have transferred over with us.
Just thought I'd share the experience I've had. I wish we could have got to T5 with our own base but it was too much of a grind and we were putting everything in with getting little back from it.
As regards to the OP I've always thought having a limit to joining fleets of a max of 3 fleets a week and scaling projects on numbers of members would have been a better idea. Yes it could have been abused by large organised fleets with hundreds of active members but it would not have been easy.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
The problem with scaling projects is that it hurts small fleets with inactive members. I know in the case of my fleet we have a lot of inactive characters that are either the alts of our active members or the characters of friends who used to play but have since quit. With a system like this we'd basically have to boot them all in order to avoid excessive star base costs.
If large numbers go inactive for long periods you could send them a mail saying the fleet is downsizing to reduce costs. Most people would understand and rejoin, if not, well you're a smaller fleet now with reduced costs and manageable projects and upgrades.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I would agree with reduced costs but as far as I can tell the reason projects cost as much as they do and why upgrades have the completion deadlines was so no fleet would advance too fast. However I do not agree that a smaller fleet should have the reduced cost but unlock everything 2-3 times longer. I've come across your proposal before and it would be easier on small fleets but it would also gimp them in the long run as they would still take forever to unlock the new stuff.
Cryptic rejected scaling because (as they said) it was too exploitable, so a large fleet could have a lot of members leave, slot projects at a reduced cost and then they join again to fill them. A limit on number of fleets you could join in a week coupled with scaling would not only have solved the scaling problem but it would also have prevented the bank raiders. However it would still provide opportunities to sell access to large fleets. The real reason this wasn't implemented is the same reason we won't see small fleets getting a break in requirements. Cryptic wants to sell Zen. They want you to buy Zen to convert to dilithium to fill the projects.
There are many ideas and ways to have made it fair and non exploitable but absolutely non of them would create a massive demand for dilithium and get people to buy Zen.
Want to hear another thing they could have done? Have lower costs, longer times like you say but have 1 tier to begin with and it's unlock. Then released T2 after a month. T3 after another 2 months and staggered it that way to prevent too much advancement too fast. If you look at the reasons for why Cryptic did what they did, there are many ways that it could have been done better. If you look at it from a "we need to sell Zen" it supports the current model.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
you need to have access to a fleet's provisions to buy fleet gear. My assumption is that you will be blocked from any fleet gear regardless of previous Fleet Credit accumulation as you dont have permission to access a Fleet Provisions pool (by virtue of being fleetless)
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
here's the thing tho, the method i described isnt made obvious by any tooltip or literature by Cryptic. There's always benefit of a doubt because of how this info isnt general knowledge.
Plus, you need to be part of the fleet if you want to buy a fleet ship (and only fleetships)
Your measure would frankly be too simplistic.
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Frankly there are way too many fleets to begin with, it's way too easy to start a fleet and the current system is working as intended if it's helping to put the mickey mouse operators that can't compete out of business.
Sorry my bad, the ingame channel is called "Public Service" (without the quotes)
thats on me man sorry
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Either way much happier in a bigger fleet, we contribute what we can but we know that we don't have to go off making sure we have enough dilithium, marks, doffs and ec to buy all these commodities within 20 hours of filling a project. The projects will get done usually in an hour or two of coming up and are finished daily.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
starbase, embassy and rep system are just the way PW forces you to spend resources for nothing... simply because at the end you have always to pay to get every gear/buff.
When you go shopping, do you pay to enter into the shop?
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves