Well you are obviously wrong, my main is "Warbird", a tactical in a Fleet Prometheus and yes I have a high engineer. I enjoy Tac but I think they are completely too powerful. It ruins the game for others when they have no role.
Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. You wish to shackle everyone in some sort of trinity like system.... um, NO.
Players that want to play with a role can and do without forcing anyone else to depend on them. Heck, if they are good players they can even play their role with zero detriment to the rest of the team. Its not WoW. Go play WoW if you want the trinity, MoP is actaully kinda awesome, pandas and all.
My only problem with the Tactical captain's abilities is that except for Tactical Initiative (which is a skill that irritates me for other reasons), it all essentially comes down to "let's do more damage, on top of the damage that I am already doing". It's not particularly unbalanced from a gameplay perspective, but it is sort of redundant and slightly unfair, to boot.
Funny how the key for eng in cruiser to beat tacs in escort is supposedly: Tac Team, Tac Team, Target Engine, Target Weapon... notice something?
One of the key problems in the design of this game is this:
Tactical skills should be more dps orientated
Engineering skills should be more tanking orientated
Science skills should be more debuffing orientated
instead we have:
Tactical skills include ALL damage increasing powers in the game and a few defensive ones
Engineering skills include nothing but tanking powers and healing powers
Science skills include nothing but CC abilities and indirect hindering powers
Cryptic dont seem to grasp the difference between "slightly more orientated" and "nothing but".
e.g Ensign Tactical - Beam Overload - Deals 500% beam array damage for 1 shot, -50 drain afterwards.
in addition there should be 2 more skills:
Ensign Engineering - Beam Overload - Deals 350% beam array damage for 1 shot.
Ensign Science - Beam Overload - Deals 250% beam array damage for 1 shot, increases damage taken by the targets shields by 25% for 15 seconds.
All beam overloads would share cooldown.
Ensign Tactical - Torpedo High Yield - As is
Ensign Engineering - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, half the cooldown
Ensign Science - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, increase damage taken by the targets hull by 25% for 15 seconds.
All high yields would share cooldown.
There, doesn't that look like a good place to start?
One of the key problems in the design of this game is this:
Tactical skills should be more dps orientated
Engineering skills should be more tanking orientated
Science skills should be more debuffing orientated
instead we have:
Tactical skills include ALL damage increasing powers in the game and a few defensive ones
Engineering skills include nothing but tanking powers and healing powers
Science skills include nothing but CC abilities and indirect hindering powers
Cryptic dont seem to grasp the difference between "slightly more orientated" and "nothing but".
Then again given their approach to nerfs in the past we knew this already.
No, you have no idea do you?
Tanking is not just tanking, just as dps is not just dps and debuffing is not just debuffing.
Most games with even a simple character class trinity aren't as simple as that. Just look at Diablo I or Torchlight to see what I mean.
Well you are obviously wrong, my main is "Warbird", a tactical in a Fleet Prometheus and yes I have a high engineer. I enjoy Tac but I think they are completely too powerful. It ruins the game for others when they have no role.
It doesn't matter, really what you fly. But in this other thread, you seem to be commenting on science abilities as if you have played a science captain:
Scrap powers like "Photonic Officer" and replace them with useful science abilities like this, just an example and an idea.
Defensive Pattern: Sierra
Science Lt Commander at 1
Commander at 2 + 3
Takes your ship into a roll, providing 50% All Energy and Kinetic Damage Resistance for 30 seconds, boosts target-able science power exotic particle damage by 25%. Increases healing by 25% (Just a quick thought, a defensive version of Attack Pattern Alpha and Omega)
2-min cooldown
Beams can have their base accuracy increased and damage by 50%
Cannons have their damage nerfed 10% and all suffer from -20 Weapon Power drain when firing because they are bigger "guns"
Oh and ALL Escorts should have base hulls reduced by 50%. Defense would be unlinked from "speed" and every individual ship would have their own defensive stat. Shield modifiers remain the same.
It seems odd that you would suggest this, if you haven't played a science captain. Obviously you are passionate about a career overhaul. I am not sure if it is a good idea. I play a engineer, and in a defiant he can get pretty close to my tac toon's dps. Sure I wish he could hit a little harder, but on the other hand he heals a lot better. I don't know...
One of the key problems in the design of this game is this:
Tactical skills should be more dps orientated
Engineering skills should be more tanking orientated
Science skills should be more debuffing orientated
instead we have:
Tactical skills include ALL damage increasing powers in the game and a few defensive ones
Engineering skills include nothing but tanking powers and healing powers
Science skills include nothing but CC abilities and indirect hindering powers
Cryptic dont seem to grasp the difference between "slightly more orientated" and "nothing but".
e.g Ensign Tactical - Beam Overload - Deals 500% beam array damage for 1 shot, -50 drain afterwards.
in addition there should be 2 more skills:
Ensign Engineering - Beam Overload - Deals 350% beam array damage for 1 shot.
Ensign Science - Beam Overload - Deals 250% beam array damage for 1 shot, increases damage taken by the targets shields by 25% for 15 seconds.
All beam overloads would share cooldown.
Ensign Tactical - Torpedo High Yield - As is
Ensign Engineering - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, half the cooldown
Ensign Science - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, increase damage taken by the targets hull by 25% for 15 seconds.
All high yields would share cooldown.
There, doesn't that look like a good place to start?
Does sound like a good place to start, but you still have a small problem. How does the Ensign Sci - THY work with torps like photons, quantums and trico's?
And I think you might get the same problem as with the teams abilities. But this would give a much more flexible setup without overlapping timeouts.
Forgive me for not reading through the thread (or don't), but these threads are a dime a dozen - and with it being Spring, I think they're even on sale two dozen for nine cents with a five cent mail-in-rebate.
So I'll just skip to the point, imho (not really humble, but some people take things better with that lie - ooops, I guess I told), of what the issue is and how it is only going to get worse as time goes on.
Let's use extreme examples, k? Extreme examples work best (worst, best, it's all the same when discussing something that's going to be ignored anyway) in cases like this.
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
Okay, so Cryptic decide it was time for a little mudflation (many times, mind you - oh so many times - though, the content never harder - funny, eh? that's a separate topic, mind you - so let's carry on)...but they wanted balanced mudflation, am I right?
Let's add some Offense! Okay, cool! Oh, we need to add some Defense to balance that! Yeah, baby - that's right! Cool, so we'll add Offense and Defense!
/cough
So let's add some Offense and Defense to our:
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
Who benefits the most from the added Offense?
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
C'mon, that's obvious! Like totally duh...duh.
So obviously that should mean that the...
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
...would benefit the most from the added Defense, right?
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
Think putting that in bold red helped it stand out? Cause it's WRONG!
Tac Escort w/ DHCs benefits the most from the added Defense.
It's offsetting the lack of Defense (not the Defense stat, talking about overall Defense here) that they're supposed to have for the increased Offense they have.
The Offensive increase to the Tac Escort w/ DHCs is greater than the Defensive increase the Eng Cruiser w/ Beams received. The Defensive increase the Tac Escort w/ DHCs received is greater than the Offensive increase the Eng Cruiser w/ Beams got.
So Cryptic adds a "balanced" Offense/Defense bit with each bit of mudflation. With each bit, the disparity grows between the two extremes. They've done several...several...many - man oh man, look at that gap now, eh?
They're going to be adding more, you know it - I mean, c'mon - you know it, right?
So in the end, it's not really about nerfing Tacs - nerfing Escorts - nerfing DHCs... it's a case of looking at all the additional stuff that's been added (and will continue to be added) interacts with them.
"BUT OMFG WAIT!" a Tac screams, "THAT IS NERFING ME!"
Um, no - it's not. Nerfing you would be doing something to the Captain abilities, the Escorts, or the DHCs. This is addressing the manner in which something else is applied to you while you're playing your Tac in an Escort with DHCs.
IMHO (/cough), you said not to nerf Tacs - Escorts - DHCs. I'm not suggesting that they do.
Nerfing all escorts in game will make many players unhappy so I say don't do that.In this moment a good built wells can kill an escort so thing's are not so imbalanced ,I guess.
My proposition is : leave things how they are now, bring new faction and after the release bug's are fixed then we can have this discussion again.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
For everyone who didnt realize over the last 3 years: there is no rock/paper/scissor - system or any "trinity" in this game. all that remains are escorts and scraps.
I'l take the opportunity to re-iterate this. In PvP, this is how you kill escorts.
Yes, and surprisingly effective against the Borg Tactical Cubes and tanking 3 Spheres.
Actually it works better in PvE - NPC are too stupid to counter the subsystem targeting....
The only time I see optionals in Infected Elite going belly-up is when a cruiser is relying on FAW and Plasma torps without thinking through the effects.
I blow up sufficient JHAS, Fleet Defiants in my cruiser to know they are not invincible. Its a case of playing at their weakness.
I will give you a hint.
Counter their Speed & maneuverability. - slow them down. Target Engines instead of FAW. Chrotonic Mines and Torps. Polaron weapons work great. Chrotonic Torps are great if you can afford a Lt.Cmdr Torp Spread III.
Most cruiser captains I see still play to the idea that FAW is the only important offensive skill. Its the last one I go for, for the above reason. Any ship that looses its ability for speed and maneuver is fighting on it's back leg and defensively.
Oh the ignorance... Attack Omega hold immunity means tractors dont work. Power insulator skill overocomes drain abilities..if you didn't know one point in power insulator/dampeners nullifies 7 points in graviton/flow capacitor.
chroniton and weapon procs must first hit the ship. Escorts have bonus to defense and again, attack omega grants a massive defense AND speed boost.
dual omega 1 is standard in escorts. its a permanent immunity to any form of snare and hold.
Counter DPS - 2x sub-system targeting doffs - Target Weapons. They become limp biscuits. Your durability will wear them down, either till they run or just to stubborn to admit they are already dead.
If you happen to come across a premade, you had better figure out who their heavy hitter is, and apply the above to them constantly and still remember your role is to support your team.
For about 3 seconds. You do realize subsystem repair skill also counters decompiler skill at a 1:7 ratio yes? No? Now you do. Again, the 'you must hit it to debuff it' problem exists.
Finally, what happens to PVE? Ah right.. thats where it is ok for escorts to have no need for the other classes since they can tank, kill and perform any job ten times faster.
Actually he is correct.
In PvP the variuos movement debuffs availible will even hold/slow/stop an escort cycle ApO though it takes timing to hit the open window of 10-15 seconds that it will work in.
Standard BOff timer/cool down interupting abilities will work well against escorts, especially SNB and VM.
He is also correct about the Target Weapons attacks, both as the Tac abilities and other lesser weapon debuffs ingame. Take away an escorts weapon power is a very easy way to render them harmless for a time.
Let's add some Offense! Okay, cool! Oh, we need to add some Defense to balance that! Yeah, baby - that's right! Cool, so we'll add Offense and Defense!
When they add offense they add it by a %. Or *
When they add defense they add it by a flat number. Or +
Hence those who have the greatest offensive starting point gain the most from added offense and those who have the lowest defensive starting point gain the most from added defense.
Actually he is correct.
In PvP the variuos movement debuffs availible will even hold/slow/stop an escort cycle ApO though it takes timing to hit the open window of 10-15 seconds that it will work in.
Standard BOff timer/cool down interupting abilities will work well against escorts, especially SNB and VM.
He is also correct about the Target Weapons attacks, both as the Tac abilities and other lesser weapon debuffs ingame. Take away an escorts weapon power is a very easy way to render them harmless for a time.
no offense but taking any ship's weapons power away, outside of torp boats, makes bretty much any ship harmless in STO. Don't see how escorts are special in this respect.
any good de buffing/power draining sci/engi ship/toon can strip a tac/escort of its speed and energy levels in seconds it happens all the time in karrat.
If most of you sci/engi knew how to play/skill spec your toon you would see how easy it is to beat a escort/tac toon.
Iv seen sci/engi toons in the wells ship take on 3 or 4 escorts/tacs and they still couldn't kill it, thing is you all seem to want to do the damage of a tac/escort but you don't want to loose your hull and shields in simple terms you want your cake and eat it, learn to skill your engi/sci as its ment to be instead of trying to be a dps king and you will see how easy a tac/escort is to beat
Exactly, many guys that complaint about OP and beg for nerfs simply do not know how to play, I have been playing since before S7 and I'm still learning. What I learn with my Engineer main I will apply to my Science character, And I guarantee I will NOT be begging for a Nerf.
I have played all three characters being in this game since launch (despite the "join date" being wrong like so many others.). The problem I perceive is that powers like EPS Power Transfer needs to also provide a passive increase to damage in the same way that Attack Pattern Alpha does.
Infact, I am going to go the whole nine yards and suggest that maybe its time to scrap bridge officer ability limitations on all ships. Just make all stations universe and all commander so that anyone can fly any ship they want and work with the vessels initial traits such as turn speed and console powers to use the vessel.
You can hull tank the majority of people in Ker'rat in a BoP...
...not sure I'd want to rely on anything from Ker'rat as an example.
It's where bad players go to feel better about themselves because there's no trouble finding worse players...
/cough
...er, yeah, it's usually where you'll find me.
Lol. Now I feel kind of bad picking up kills there XD. Even though I am not gonna lie, some of those players make me want to quit the game outright. But then I get killed by someone who actually has skills, and I am back to liking the game. It's quite nice at times XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Have a round robin. 5 escorts, 5 cruisers and 5 science ships. Who will win? 5 escorts. How will they do it? Easily. They are OP. The only people who won't agree are people who are primarily escort flyers who enjoy smashing the people who are brave and adventurous enough to try things other than escorts. They will also be people whose objectiveness and fairness is overshadowed by their desperate need to win.
How people can find enjoyment winning 15-0 over non-escort groups is beyond me. Maybe they were victimised as children in school and need to take out their years of rage against sci and cruiser captains.
What do I fly? I fly all sorts of ships, including escorts, but I fly sci and cruisers more often as it's more of a challenge. Flying my bug yields kills pretty easily. That's not what I'm after. Challenge without the abject fear of losing that I see some people possessing.
Have a round robin. 5 escorts, 5 cruisers and 5 science ships. Who will win? 5 escorts.
If the cruisers are any good they'll stalemate. 5 cruisers cross-healing will be able to survive the 5 escorts, as long as they are communicating well and synergizing. Bar those two facts, the escorts might win.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The way I'd partially address this is to actually do a fairly quick fix, that been altering the tactical damage consoles. I really believe that having them stack the way they do makes tactical console setups boring, I really think they should have diminishing returns (or maybe not stack at all). If this was done, it would not only bring down the extra damage an Escort can put out, but it would also free up more console slots and give people more freedom to use different setups. They could even make a few new Tactical consoles as well, perhaps ones that boost accuracy or crit chance. I know I'd definatly use alot more of the universal consoles if I had space to use them (which is great for Cryptic since they come from C-store ships) ;-)
If the cruisers are any good they'll stalemate. 5 cruisers cross-healing will be able to survive the 5 escorts, as long as they are communicating well and synergizing. Bar those two facts, the escorts might win.
Good point. Still, I don't think the cruisers could win, even if the escorts made a mistake.
You can hull tank the majority of people in Ker'rat in a BoP...
...not sure I'd want to rely on anything from Ker'rat as an example.
It's where bad players go to feel better about themselves because there's no trouble finding worse players...
/cough
...er, yeah, it's usually where you'll find me.
Ker'rat is more a mixed bag of players. There are good players and not-so-good players, and then there are Kirks flying cruisers using FAW and Kirking away.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Good point. Still, I don't think the cruisers could win, even if the escorts made a mistake.
Oh, I never said the cruisers would win. Just stale-mate. The only group there that could possibly kill the escorts are the sci, but then the escorts would know that and focus the sci down first XD. Which would leave the escorts and cruisers to pointlessly plug away at each other.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Umm... I'm a little scared stepping into this furball, but here I go...
I see a lot of talk about PvP here, so I thought I'd bring in the perspective of someone who plays PvE almost exclusively here.
I actually kinda' agree with the thread's motion here, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with all of the original poster's proposed fix.
As long as Tactical Team remains by far the best engineering skill in the game, nothing will change.
The issuse isn't the cannon. It's the glass.
From a PvE standpoint, this appears to me to be the core of the problem. My main is a tactical officer, and, barring my last two months flying an Ambassador, I've been a pretty steady escort captain.
Yes, having attack patterns boost the damage of science powers is a problem for science captains, but the core problem is when even an idiot like me can use a Patrol Escort to tank-- not kill, but tank-- a cube in KAS:E for a almost two full minutes. A more competent escort jock than I was at the time would have been able to waste that ship in less time, no tanking or heal-support required.
At least as far as PvE is concerned, I think tsurutafan has hit the nail on the head-- "the issue isn't the cannon. It's the glass."
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
Comments
Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. You wish to shackle everyone in some sort of trinity like system.... um, NO.
Players that want to play with a role can and do without forcing anyone else to depend on them. Heck, if they are good players they can even play their role with zero detriment to the rest of the team. Its not WoW. Go play WoW if you want the trinity, MoP is actaully kinda awesome, pandas and all.
Regretably Cryptic is not capable of making balanced classes and powers. If they were, they would have balanced things out a long time ago.
One of the key problems in the design of this game is this:
Tactical skills should be more dps orientated
Engineering skills should be more tanking orientated
Science skills should be more debuffing orientated
instead we have:
Tactical skills include ALL damage increasing powers in the game and a few defensive ones
Engineering skills include nothing but tanking powers and healing powers
Science skills include nothing but CC abilities and indirect hindering powers
Cryptic dont seem to grasp the difference between "slightly more orientated" and "nothing but".
e.g Ensign Tactical - Beam Overload - Deals 500% beam array damage for 1 shot, -50 drain afterwards.
in addition there should be 2 more skills:
Ensign Engineering - Beam Overload - Deals 350% beam array damage for 1 shot.
Ensign Science - Beam Overload - Deals 250% beam array damage for 1 shot, increases damage taken by the targets shields by 25% for 15 seconds.
All beam overloads would share cooldown.
Ensign Tactical - Torpedo High Yield - As is
Ensign Engineering - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, half the cooldown
Ensign Science - Torpedo High Yield - Current High Yield minus 25% damage, increase damage taken by the targets hull by 25% for 15 seconds.
All high yields would share cooldown.
There, doesn't that look like a good place to start?
No, you have no idea do you?
Tanking is not just tanking, just as dps is not just dps and debuffing is not just debuffing.
Most games with even a simple character class trinity aren't as simple as that. Just look at Diablo I or Torchlight to see what I mean.
It doesn't matter, really what you fly. But in this other thread, you seem to be commenting on science abilities as if you have played a science captain:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=581421&page=2
It seems odd that you would suggest this, if you haven't played a science captain. Obviously you are passionate about a career overhaul. I am not sure if it is a good idea. I play a engineer, and in a defiant he can get pretty close to my tac toon's dps. Sure I wish he could hit a little harder, but on the other hand he heals a lot better. I don't know...
You clearly misunderstand. I know this, it would appear Cryptic do not.
Then perhaps you shall enlighten me as to what I have clearly misunderstood, or what you know?
Does sound like a good place to start, but you still have a small problem. How does the Ensign Sci - THY work with torps like photons, quantums and trico's?
And I think you might get the same problem as with the teams abilities. But this would give a much more flexible setup without overlapping timeouts.
So I'll just skip to the point, imho (not really humble, but some people take things better with that lie - ooops, I guess I told), of what the issue is and how it is only going to get worse as time goes on.
Let's use extreme examples, k? Extreme examples work best (worst, best, it's all the same when discussing something that's going to be ignored anyway) in cases like this.
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
Okay, so Cryptic decide it was time for a little mudflation (many times, mind you - oh so many times - though, the content never harder - funny, eh? that's a separate topic, mind you - so let's carry on)...but they wanted balanced mudflation, am I right?
Let's add some Offense! Okay, cool! Oh, we need to add some Defense to balance that! Yeah, baby - that's right! Cool, so we'll add Offense and Defense!
/cough
So let's add some Offense and Defense to our:
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
Who benefits the most from the added Offense?
Tac Escort w/ DHCs
C'mon, that's obvious! Like totally duh...duh.
So obviously that should mean that the...
Eng Cruiser w/ Beams
...would benefit the most from the added Defense, right?
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
Think putting that in bold red helped it stand out? Cause it's WRONG!
Tac Escort w/ DHCs benefits the most from the added Defense.
It's offsetting the lack of Defense (not the Defense stat, talking about overall Defense here) that they're supposed to have for the increased Offense they have.
The Offensive increase to the Tac Escort w/ DHCs is greater than the Defensive increase the Eng Cruiser w/ Beams received. The Defensive increase the Tac Escort w/ DHCs received is greater than the Offensive increase the Eng Cruiser w/ Beams got.
So Cryptic adds a "balanced" Offense/Defense bit with each bit of mudflation. With each bit, the disparity grows between the two extremes. They've done several...several...many - man oh man, look at that gap now, eh?
They're going to be adding more, you know it - I mean, c'mon - you know it, right?
So in the end, it's not really about nerfing Tacs - nerfing Escorts - nerfing DHCs... it's a case of looking at all the additional stuff that's been added (and will continue to be added) interacts with them.
"BUT OMFG WAIT!" a Tac screams, "THAT IS NERFING ME!"
Um, no - it's not. Nerfing you would be doing something to the Captain abilities, the Escorts, or the DHCs. This is addressing the manner in which something else is applied to you while you're playing your Tac in an Escort with DHCs.
IMHO (/cough), you said not to nerf Tacs - Escorts - DHCs. I'm not suggesting that they do.
My proposition is : leave things how they are now, bring new faction and after the release bug's are fixed then we can have this discussion again.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
How about they address the oodles and oodles of current bugs before adding oodles and oodles of new bugs?
Yes, and surprisingly effective against the Borg Tactical Cubes and tanking 3 Spheres.
Actually it works better in PvE - NPC are too stupid to counter the subsystem targeting....
The only time I see optionals in Infected Elite going belly-up is when a cruiser is relying on FAW and Plasma torps without thinking through the effects.
Oh the ignorance... Attack Omega hold immunity means tractors dont work. Power insulator skill overocomes drain abilities..if you didn't know one point in power insulator/dampeners nullifies 7 points in graviton/flow capacitor.
chroniton and weapon procs must first hit the ship. Escorts have bonus to defense and again, attack omega grants a massive defense AND speed boost.
dual omega 1 is standard in escorts. its a permanent immunity to any form of snare and hold.
For about 3 seconds. You do realize subsystem repair skill also counters decompiler skill at a 1:7 ratio yes? No? Now you do. Again, the 'you must hit it to debuff it' problem exists.
Finally, what happens to PVE? Ah right.. thats where it is ok for escorts to have no need for the other classes since they can tank, kill and perform any job ten times faster.
In PvP the variuos movement debuffs availible will even hold/slow/stop an escort cycle ApO though it takes timing to hit the open window of 10-15 seconds that it will work in.
Standard BOff timer/cool down interupting abilities will work well against escorts, especially SNB and VM.
He is also correct about the Target Weapons attacks, both as the Tac abilities and other lesser weapon debuffs ingame. Take away an escorts weapon power is a very easy way to render them harmless for a time.
R.I.P
When they add offense they add it by a %. Or *
When they add defense they add it by a flat number. Or +
Hence those who have the greatest offensive starting point gain the most from added offense and those who have the lowest defensive starting point gain the most from added defense.
Messed up.
no offense but taking any ship's weapons power away, outside of torp boats, makes bretty much any ship harmless in STO. Don't see how escorts are special in this respect.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Exactly, many guys that complaint about OP and beg for nerfs simply do not know how to play, I have been playing since before S7 and I'm still learning. What I learn with my Engineer main I will apply to my Science character, And I guarantee I will NOT be begging for a Nerf.
You can hull tank the majority of people in Ker'rat in a BoP...
...not sure I'd want to rely on anything from Ker'rat as an example.
It's where bad players go to feel better about themselves because there's no trouble finding worse players...
/cough
...er, yeah, it's usually where you'll find me.
I have played all three characters being in this game since launch (despite the "join date" being wrong like so many others.). The problem I perceive is that powers like EPS Power Transfer needs to also provide a passive increase to damage in the same way that Attack Pattern Alpha does.
Infact, I am going to go the whole nine yards and suggest that maybe its time to scrap bridge officer ability limitations on all ships. Just make all stations universe and all commander so that anyone can fly any ship they want and work with the vessels initial traits such as turn speed and console powers to use the vessel.
Lol. Now I feel kind of bad picking up kills there XD. Even though I am not gonna lie, some of those players make me want to quit the game outright. But then I get killed by someone who actually has skills, and I am back to liking the game. It's quite nice at times XD.
How people can find enjoyment winning 15-0 over non-escort groups is beyond me. Maybe they were victimised as children in school and need to take out their years of rage against sci and cruiser captains.
What do I fly? I fly all sorts of ships, including escorts, but I fly sci and cruisers more often as it's more of a challenge. Flying my bug yields kills pretty easily. That's not what I'm after. Challenge without the abject fear of losing that I see some people possessing.
If the cruisers are any good they'll stalemate. 5 cruisers cross-healing will be able to survive the 5 escorts, as long as they are communicating well and synergizing. Bar those two facts, the escorts might win.
Good point. Still, I don't think the cruisers could win, even if the escorts made a mistake.
Ker'rat is more a mixed bag of players. There are good players and not-so-good players, and then there are Kirks flying cruisers using FAW and Kirking away.
Oh, I never said the cruisers would win. Just stale-mate. The only group there that could possibly kill the escorts are the sci, but then the escorts would know that and focus the sci down first XD. Which would leave the escorts and cruisers to pointlessly plug away at each other.
I see a lot of talk about PvP here, so I thought I'd bring in the perspective of someone who plays PvE almost exclusively here.
I actually kinda' agree with the thread's motion here, but I'm not sure I entirely agree with all of the original poster's proposed fix.
From a PvE standpoint, this appears to me to be the core of the problem. My main is a tactical officer, and, barring my last two months flying an Ambassador, I've been a pretty steady escort captain.
Yes, having attack patterns boost the damage of science powers is a problem for science captains, but the core problem is when even an idiot like me can use a Patrol Escort to tank-- not kill, but tank-- a cube in KAS:E for a almost two full minutes. A more competent escort jock than I was at the time would have been able to waste that ship in less time, no tanking or heal-support required.
At least as far as PvE is concerned, I think tsurutafan has hit the nail on the head-- "the issue isn't the cannon. It's the glass."
-- Winston Churchill