This is issue when we think of klingons, they have to pay 20m ec or make multiple alts to get any specie with leadership trait, it's clearly unfair and needs to be nerfed.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
I hope all leadership haters are happy now. On tribble leadership boffs provide 1/10 (see one tenth) of the bonus granted by 2 piece borg. On top of that, SIF appears to have lesser effect on hull repair. No other crew related issues were solved like was foreseen.
It is safe to say that the effect of them is not noticeable and they are back in the stone age where they rested for past few years.
GJ
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I hope all leadership haters are happy now. On tribble leadership boffs provide 1/10 (see one tenth) of the bonus granted by 2 piece borg. On top of that, SIF appears to have lesser effect on hull repair. No other crew related issues were solved like was foreseen.
It is safe to say that the effect of them is not noticeable and they are back in the stone age where they rested for past few years.
GJ
Are you sure that SIF generators have a smaller effect on hull repair rate when no humans are equipped? I'm asking because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair". There might be no change to SIF generators at all, just humans.
Are you sure that SIF generators have a smaller effect on hull repair rate when no humans are equipped? I'm asking because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair". There might be no change to SIF generators at all, just humans.
Considering my steamrunner is build on stacking SIF (not just generators) for max hull regen, I'm pretty sure that the effect on tribble is smaller than on holodeck.
But of course, that's just subjective feel. I generally do not trust tooltips, so I'm just watching my HPS as borgs in kerrat eat through my hull with plasma.
Tribble is down today, so I cannot continue with my reasearch from yesterday tho...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Considering my steamrunner is build on stacking SIF (not just generators) for max hull regen, I'm pretty sure that the effect on tribble is smaller than on holodeck.
But of course, that's just subjective feel. I generally do not trust tooltips, so I'm just watching my HPS as borgs in kerrat eat through my hull with plasma.
I'm asking if you have tested the difference on Tribble and Holodeck with no humans equipped. My suspicion is that no change has been made to the skill "Starship Hull Repair" or to SIF generators. Because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership has been reduced, the benefit they gain from "Starship Hull Repair" is correspondingly reduced. However, the effect of "Starship Hull Repair" without humans may remain unchanged.
I'm asking if you have tested the difference on Tribble and Holodeck with no humans equipped. My suspicion is that no change has been made to the skill "Starship Hull Repair" or to SIF generators. Because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership has been reduced, the benefit they gain from "Starship Hull Repair" is correspondingly reduced. However, the effect of "Starship Hull Repair" without humans may remain unchanged.
Well, hard to test the actual numbers. But without these boffs, even with +200 in SIF i didn't notice anything great about my passive regen. Actually +100 vs +200 felt like being same. But I had to log off and wanted to continue today....tribble down zzzZZzz.
Also, my captain is human, so I always have one leadership bonus on me thus it's hard for me to get "clean" results. I have always tested it maxed, because without dedicated stuff I would not bother with natural regen at all.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Well, hard to test the actual numbers. But without these boffs, even with +200 in SIF i didn't notice anything great about my passive regen. Actually +100 vs +200 felt like being same. But I had to log off and wanted to continue today....tribble down zzzZZzz.
Also, my captain is human, so I always have one leadership bonus on me thus it's hard for me to get "clean" results. I have always tested it maxed, because without dedicated stuff I would not bother with natural regen at all.
Most likely, what you are observing is that hull repair rate from normal sources is greatly diminished by crew and is also multiplied by 1/6 when you enter red alert. The leadership trait was so strong before because it was unaffected by these penalties. Now, that the leadership bonus has been reduced, you are seeing these penalties dominate.
Ok so I did some more testing comparing holodeck to tribble with some number. I have some rather specialized and I would says unique steamrunner build., that focuses on natural healing.
Holodeck
Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 99 SIF base
ZzZzzZzz... Leadership trait is not working on tribble. Positive is, I was wrong about the SIF gens. They work much like before. The initial values are lower, so perhaps even the human captain trait is not working (again).
As a side note, I found the exact same bug i bug reported year ago regarding DEM + Point Defence Phaser. It used to dmg myself. Well right now on tribble, if you activate the PDP and it has no targets around, it procs the new cripling fire proc from trait on yourself. Dear god. What a lousy job.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I believe the leadership trait was nerfed so that it gives a non-stacking +6% hull regen out of combat, +4% hull regen in combat. Plus, when I tested it, it doesn't seem like the +20 subsys repair bonus it was supposed to give actually applied at all; the UI didn't show any increases under the "space skills" heading.
Bye-bye leadership. It was nice knowing you, and you were actually helping to make cruisers more valuable; 1% of a cruiser's giant HP pool is a bigger value larger than 1% of an escort or sci ships' hull, so cruisers benefited the most from the old leadership.
Once more, another change that hurts cruisers more than it does any other class of ship.
Ok so I did some more testing comparing holodeck to tribble with some number. I have some rather specialized and I would says unique steamrunner build., that focuses on natural healing.
Holodeck
Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 99 SIF base
ZzZzzZzz... Leadership trait is not working on tribble. Positive is, I was wrong about the SIF gens. They work much like before. The initial values are lower, so perhaps even the human captain trait is not working (again).
As a side note, I found the exact same bug i bug reported year ago regarding DEM + Point Defence Phaser. It used to dmg myself. Well right now on tribble, if you activate the PDP and it has no targets around, it procs the new cripling fire proc from trait on yourself. Dear god. What a lousy job.
Your numbers don't seem to match my formula for computing the hull repair rate. Even your numbers on Holodeck seem off. Do you have the Omega reputation passive "Hull-Repairing Nanites"? Which mark Borg set do you have?
5x Human BOFFs, 2x VR Mk XI SIF (+18.8)
147 Starship Hull Repair
No other gear/passives/etc affecting Hull Repair
Zone in to normal space - 355.0% Hull Repair (TWO SIF) Remove a SIF - 341.5% (ONE SIF) Replace the SIF - 341.5% (TWO SIF) Remove both SIF - 314.5% (NO SIF) Replace one SIF - 314.5% (ONE SIF) Replace both SIF - 341.5% (TWO SIF)
Yes, that's two different numbers for when there are Two.
Yes, that's two different numbers for when there is One.
Yes, one of those One numbers is the same as when there are None.
Continuing with the potentially bugged 341.5%
Remove a Human BOFF - 319.5%
Replace that Human BOFF - 355.0%
Remove all Human BOFFs - 177.5%
Remove a SIF - 164.0%
Replace the SIF - 177.5%
Remove both SIF - 150.5%
Replace one SIF - 164.0%
Replace second SIF - 177.5%
Replace all Human BOFFs - 355.0%
Remove a SIF - 341.5%
Replace the SIF - 341.5%
DOH!
Remove/Replace a Human BOFF - 355.0%
- - - - -
Given other gear that can affect Hull Repair as well (none on my test toon) - well, as you shuffle things around - I'd suggest Removing/Replacing a Human BOFF as the test data is gathered. Gear will not recalculate correctly until you do.
Looking at dalnar83's numbers again, I'm starting to suspect the Steamrunner has a base hull regeneration rate of 60%/min unlike other escorts, which have a base hull regeneration rate of 50%/min. It would be odd if the Steamrunner really does have a higher base hull regeneration rate than other escorts.
On Tribble, the new tooltip for leadership says the following:
In system space:
+0.03 Starship Hull Regeneration (In Combat)
+0.04 Starship Hull Regeneration (Out of Combat)
On the ground:
+0.03 Starship Hull Regeneration (In Combat)
+0.05 Starship Hull Regeneration (Out of Combat)
Why the tooltip changes between ground and space, I have no idea. Those number don't seem to match exactly what I observed, but the order of magnitude is correct. The new hull regeneration bonus from leadership seems to be about 0.04. However, it currently only works for the captain. They are changing the way traits work, and I think they haven't gotten around to the boffs yet. Also, the subsystem repair bonus is missing for both the captain and boffs.
Yes steamrunner has higher natural regen. It is on the level of science ships. You can see it on holodeck, when you select your ships in shipyard.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
This trait now provides a scale .3 Regeneration bonus in-combat, and a scale .6 Regeneration bonus out of combat.
This power no longer scales off of your amount of crew alive or off your skill points spent in hull repairs.
Its effectiveness is now constant.
Leadership's out-of-combat regeneration rate no longer persists during Combat as well.
Leadership no longer gives regeneration for having 100% of crew alive regardless of how much Crew damage the ship had taken.
Weee there goes my SIF regen build....
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
thanks for that cryptic, now just dont give us more op boffs on s8
Thanks for what exactly ? Making a BOF trait useless, nerfing one of SIF skill side effects hence making another engineering console gimped and forcing us to have all romulan crews ?
Oh yeah, thanks big time cryptic :rolleyes:
What will be next ? Forced pink uniforms for starfleet captains ?
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
ships with more than 3 eng console slots are not useless anymore, human boffs now dont provide a bigger benefit for escorts than for carriers, stupidly high subsyem repair caused disable builds to not work, high hull repair caused plasma and transphasic builds to not work, it is working now as pretendend. if you are not ok with your escort beeing weak to the things they should be weak, create your own post and whine about how bad you want your escort to be op
and why all romulan ? ill still use the human boffs.
ships with more than 3 eng console slots are not useless anymore, human boffs now dont provide a bigger benefit for escorts than for carriers, stupidly high subsyem repair caused disable builds to not work, high hull repair caused plasma and transphasic builds to not work, it is working now as pretendend. if you are not ok with your escort beeing weak to the things they should be weak, create your own post and whine about how bad you want your escort to be op
and why all romulan ? ill still use the human boffs.
I'm more converned about my cruiser. My escort will always do well, especially with all those new trait and goodies comming with S8.
And btw I wonder how long it will take before you create another moan thread whining about everyone using those OP rom boffs and stacking all their stuff.....
Oh, and, for, the, love, of,Spock, do, not, write, stuff, in, one,long,very long,stupidly long,sentence, that, is, longer, than, a, whole, paragraph
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
i just dont use "enter" every 2 lines to make my posts to look bigger, please do not quote another's posts if your post is right above
and yes, if after s8 we don't get more boffs to compete with human and romulan boffs, of course someone will create a post about it, i was the one creating the post about human boffs, but that's because i'm not like you, i'm just not ok getting the op stuff, knowing it is broken and playing that way
edit: this post is about human boffs, if you are here to fight with me like a little girl, do it via pm
Who said I'm for OP stuff ? I'm just against blindly nerfing stuff without solving all the underlying issues. If that change hits, crew means even less than before, and only good benefit will be from green blooded pointy eared hobgoblin boffs.
Right now, you could have used leadership boffs for defense, or romulan boffs for offense. I guess we are all pidgeon holed towards the embassy grind stuff.
Having less options is always bad.
Beside, your main whine points are not fixed. Leadership trait is not affected by crew levels, escorts will still profit the most. SIF synergy is also removed, something that will hit cruisers most.
So once again, blind nerf, no other issues solved. You are right, I'm not like you, becaseue it does not make happy.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
s8 will bring some stuff to crew so im pretty much convinced the general crew issue will be fixed
anyway, human boffs are still a viable option, and we are getting new traits on s8, is that including boffs or not ? that's my question
im just waiting for s8, and let me tell you, im happy with the human boff nerf, they are balanced with romulan's now, 6%+5 is still 30%, that plus the officer trait is 40%, pretty high to counter disable builds and quite enough to counter plasma and transphasic builds,
at least it doesn't make some builds useless no more which was my main concern
and even if romulan boffs are the strongest right now, at least klingons can get a chance on getting them
but dont forget that more crits means that the secondary emergency shielding will proc more
Comments
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
let's just hope s8 give us the fix we need
It is safe to say that the effect of them is not noticeable and they are back in the stone age where they rested for past few years.
GJ
Are you sure that SIF generators have a smaller effect on hull repair rate when no humans are equipped? I'm asking because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership is modified by skill in "Starship Hull Repair". There might be no change to SIF generators at all, just humans.
Considering my steamrunner is build on stacking SIF (not just generators) for max hull regen, I'm pretty sure that the effect on tribble is smaller than on holodeck.
But of course, that's just subjective feel. I generally do not trust tooltips, so I'm just watching my HPS as borgs in kerrat eat through my hull with plasma.
Tribble is down today, so I cannot continue with my reasearch from yesterday tho...
I'm asking if you have tested the difference on Tribble and Holodeck with no humans equipped. My suspicion is that no change has been made to the skill "Starship Hull Repair" or to SIF generators. Because the hull repair bonus granted by leadership has been reduced, the benefit they gain from "Starship Hull Repair" is correspondingly reduced. However, the effect of "Starship Hull Repair" without humans may remain unchanged.
Well, hard to test the actual numbers. But without these boffs, even with +200 in SIF i didn't notice anything great about my passive regen. Actually +100 vs +200 felt like being same. But I had to log off and wanted to continue today....tribble down zzzZZzz.
Also, my captain is human, so I always have one leadership bonus on me thus it's hard for me to get "clean" results. I have always tested it maxed, because without dedicated stuff I would not bother with natural regen at all.
Most likely, what you are observing is that hull repair rate from normal sources is greatly diminished by crew and is also multiplied by 1/6 when you enter red alert. The leadership trait was so strong before because it was unaffected by these penalties. Now, that the leadership bonus has been reduced, you are seeing these penalties dominate.
Holodeck
Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 99 SIF base
143,3% / 43,8%
+ 2 piece borg
184,3% / 79,8%
+ SIF toys for a total of 194 SIF
238,3% / 85,3%
+ All human crew
380% / 232,9% (60 SIF ~ 36% outside combat, 13,2% in-combat)
Tribble
Human captain (1x leadership), No BOFFs, NO BORG set, 109 SIF base (got +10 from techie trait i could add)
130,4% / 25,9%
+ 2 piece borg
171,4% / 61,9%
+ SIF toys for a total of 204 SIF
222,4% / 70,4%
+ All human crew
222,4% / 70,4% (60 SIF ~ 36% outside combat, 6% in-combat)
ZzZzzZzz... Leadership trait is not working on tribble. Positive is, I was wrong about the SIF gens. They work much like before. The initial values are lower, so perhaps even the human captain trait is not working (again).
As a side note, I found the exact same bug i bug reported year ago regarding DEM + Point Defence Phaser. It used to dmg myself. Well right now on tribble, if you activate the PDP and it has no targets around, it procs the new cripling fire proc from trait on yourself. Dear god. What a lousy job.
Bye-bye leadership. It was nice knowing you, and you were actually helping to make cruisers more valuable; 1% of a cruiser's giant HP pool is a bigger value larger than 1% of an escort or sci ships' hull, so cruisers benefited the most from the old leadership.
Once more, another change that hurts cruisers more than it does any other class of ship.
Your numbers don't seem to match my formula for computing the hull repair rate. Even your numbers on Holodeck seem off. Do you have the Omega reputation passive "Hull-Repairing Nanites"? Which mark Borg set do you have?
Is this the same on another escort besides the Steamrunner on Holodeck?
5x Human BOFFs, 2x VR Mk XI SIF (+18.8)
147 Starship Hull Repair
No other gear/passives/etc affecting Hull Repair
Zone in to normal space - 355.0% Hull Repair (TWO SIF)
Remove a SIF - 341.5% (ONE SIF)
Replace the SIF - 341.5% (TWO SIF)
Remove both SIF - 314.5% (NO SIF)
Replace one SIF - 314.5% (ONE SIF)
Replace both SIF - 341.5% (TWO SIF)
Yes, that's two different numbers for when there are Two.
Yes, that's two different numbers for when there is One.
Yes, one of those One numbers is the same as when there are None.
Continuing with the potentially bugged 341.5%
Remove a Human BOFF - 319.5%
Replace that Human BOFF - 355.0%
Remove all Human BOFFs - 177.5%
Remove a SIF - 164.0%
Replace the SIF - 177.5%
Remove both SIF - 150.5%
Replace one SIF - 164.0%
Replace second SIF - 177.5%
Replace all Human BOFFs - 355.0%
Remove a SIF - 341.5%
Replace the SIF - 341.5%
DOH!
Remove/Replace a Human BOFF - 355.0%
- - - - -
Given other gear that can affect Hull Repair as well (none on my test toon) - well, as you shuffle things around - I'd suggest Removing/Replacing a Human BOFF as the test data is gathered. Gear will not recalculate correctly until you do.
On Tribble, the new tooltip for leadership says the following:
In system space:
+0.03 Starship Hull Regeneration (In Combat)
+0.04 Starship Hull Regeneration (Out of Combat)
On the ground:
+0.03 Starship Hull Regeneration (In Combat)
+0.05 Starship Hull Regeneration (Out of Combat)
Why the tooltip changes between ground and space, I have no idea. Those number don't seem to match exactly what I observed, but the order of magnitude is correct. The new hull regeneration bonus from leadership seems to be about 0.04. However, it currently only works for the captain. They are changing the way traits work, and I think they haven't gotten around to the boffs yet. Also, the subsystem repair bonus is missing for both the captain and boffs.
That's interesting. I was unaware that there were certain ships with different base hull regeneration rates than the rest of their class.
Updated Leadership:
Weee there goes my SIF regen build....
And in come the all Rom bridge bunnies!
thanks for that cryptic, now just dont give us more op boffs on s8
Thanks for what exactly ? Making a BOF trait useless, nerfing one of SIF skill side effects hence making another engineering console gimped and forcing us to have all romulan crews ?
Oh yeah, thanks big time cryptic :rolleyes:
What will be next ? Forced pink uniforms for starfleet captains ?
and why all romulan ? ill still use the human boffs.
I'm more converned about my cruiser. My escort will always do well, especially with all those new trait and goodies comming with S8.
And btw I wonder how long it will take before you create another moan thread whining about everyone using those OP rom boffs and stacking all their stuff.....
Oh, and, for, the, love, of,Spock, do, not, write, stuff, in, one,long,very long,stupidly long,sentence, that, is, longer, than, a, whole, paragraph
and yes, if after s8 we don't get more boffs to compete with human and romulan boffs, of course someone will create a post about it, i was the one creating the post about human boffs, but that's because i'm not like you, i'm just not ok getting the op stuff, knowing it is broken and playing that way
edit: this post is about human boffs, if you are here to fight with me like a little girl, do it via pm
Right now, you could have used leadership boffs for defense, or romulan boffs for offense. I guess we are all pidgeon holed towards the embassy grind stuff.
Having less options is always bad.
Beside, your main whine points are not fixed. Leadership trait is not affected by crew levels, escorts will still profit the most. SIF synergy is also removed, something that will hit cruisers most.
So once again, blind nerf, no other issues solved. You are right, I'm not like you, becaseue it does not make happy.
anyway, human boffs are still a viable option, and we are getting new traits on s8, is that including boffs or not ? that's my question
im just waiting for s8, and let me tell you, im happy with the human boff nerf, they are balanced with romulan's now, 6%+5 is still 30%, that plus the officer trait is 40%, pretty high to counter disable builds and quite enough to counter plasma and transphasic builds,
at least it doesn't make some builds useless no more which was my main concern
and even if romulan boffs are the strongest right now, at least klingons can get a chance on getting them
but dont forget that more crits means that the secondary emergency shielding will proc more