Borg's Destiny

janewaywarrior

Now, we have the Vesta Class in the game which is a ship from the popular "Star Trek: Destiny" series of books. I have been wondering if Cryptic is authorized to use other components from the book series.

The thing is, I really want to see the Borg get their groove back. Can we just make the current Borg in Star Trek: Online, more of an "offshoot" of the Collective for the big bad-boys who are waiting in the Delta Quadrant.

The problem with the Borg in this game is that they have really lost their teeth. I wanna see a cube wipe out a fleet of Federation starships and the introduction of "Super-Cubes" and "Tactical Fusion Cubes" which really give you a moment to fill your pants.

What other improvements would players suggest to give the "horror" element back to the Borg. (As a kid, I used to hide behind the sofa when I first saw Scorpion because the Borg were simply so terrifying and little Voyager was so so small.)

I want to bring back some of the more horrific and disturbing elements of the collective and really give me chills down my spine.

tangolight

The Vesta was a one shot thing that Cryptic spent a very long time negotiating with the appropriate parties for the use of the ship in the game due to fan demand. They don't have the rights to the book at all.

elandarksky

janewaywarrior wrote: »

The problem with the Borg in this game is that they have really lost their teeth. I wanna see a cube wipe out a fleet of Federation starships and the introduction of "Super-Cubes" and "Tactical Fusion Cubes" which really give you a moment to fill your pants.

What other improvements would players suggest to give the "horror" element back to the Borg. (As a kid, I used to hide behind the sofa when I first saw Scorpion because the Borg were simply so terrifying and little Voyager was so so small.)

Just one big problem, Borg in this game are staple enemies especially endgame, having REAL borg as the borg we have? The game would become annoying and pointless, a cube sneezing escorts and cruisers to pieces. We just have to accept that borg in this game are weak for the sake of the game, mechanics and tactics.
... side note, the premise of a fushion cube seems kinda silly , using that logic why not just glue every cube in the delta quadrant and watch a planet sized cube edging closer to targets? bleh.


ironic you mention the dreaded 'V' word, that series declawed the borg worse than most adaptations of it i have seen!

centersolace

elandarksky wrote: »

Just one big problem, Borg in this game are staple enemies especially endgame, having REAL borg as the borg we have? The game would become annoying and pointless, a cube sneezing escorts and cruisers to pieces. We just have to accept that borg in this game are weak for the sake of the game, mechanics and tactics.
... side note, the premise of a fushion cube seems kinda silly , using that logic why not just glue every cube in the delta quadrant and watch a planet sized cube edging closer to targets? bleh.

I'd support that. :P

gfreeman98

Another aspect of the Borg in this game that doesn't make sense: On the ground they can adapt their personal shields to our weaponry, but in space they do not adapt. This is both inconsistent and unBorg-like.

neoakiraii

gfreeman98 wrote: »

Another aspect of the Borg in this game that doesn't make sense: On the ground they can adapt their personal shields to our weaponry, but in space they do not adapt. This is both inconsistent and unBorg-like.

Well even in the show, the Starships never had many issues overcoming that, it was the handled phasers that they always adapted to fast, due to limited memory or something.

westx211

Well you have to keep in mind that the federation and Klingon empire have greatly improved their technology since the days of old so we simply got bigger and badder than the Borg.

gfreeman98

neoakiraii wrote: »

Well even in the show, the Starships never had many issues overcoming that....

Really?

In TBoBW they had to randomize phaser frequencies within a specific range to cause any damage at all*, to which the Borg still adapted albeit not as quickly.

A similar change was made on the hand phasers with the same effect: temporary effectiveness. This we have in game as the need to periodically remodulate ground weapons.

(*Likewise the Enterprise-D had to rotate its own shield frequencies to get limited protection from their weapons and tractor beams, which we have in game as RSF.)

neoakiraii

gfreeman98 wrote: »

Really?

In TBoBW they had to randomize phaser frequencies within a specific range to cause any damage at all*, to which the Borg still adapted albeit not as quickly.

A similar change was made on the hand phasers with the same effect: temporary effectiveness. This we have in game as the need to periodically remodulate ground weapons.

(*Likewise the Enterprise-D had to rotate its own shield frequencies to get limited protection from their weapons and tractor beams, which we have in game as RSF.)

I said ships had it easier in the shows than the hand phasers, but by later Voyager and First Contact they hardly had issues with that when it came to ships, but face to face they still had problems with adapting, unless you had a tommy gun.

Starships have more to work with than a phasers, Starships have bigger computers than a simple phaser, so more modulation frequencies

janewaywarrior

neoakiraii wrote: »

I said ships had it easier in the shows than the hand phasers, but by later Voyager and First Contact they hardly had issues with that when it came to ships, but face to face they still had problems with adapting, unless you had a tommy gun.

Starships have more to work with than a phasers, Starships have bigger computers than a simple phaser, so more modulation frequencies

Actually that is not correct, the Borg Cube that attacked Earth in First Contact took a lot of direct, sustained fire and was still majorly damaged. It is stated in the "Best of Both Worlds" that a Borg vessel could continue to function effectively even if 78% of it was inoperable.

The ONLY reason that cube was able to be destroyed was because Picard knew the layout of Borg ships and could provide sustained continuous fire on one of major power wave-guide conduits, using the phasers and torpedoes of an entire FLEET to "drill" their way into the cube.

Otherwise the Fleet would have been destroyed and were getting battered before the Enterprise even got there...

One Starship... Don't care what ship it is... can withstand a Borg cube so this game is already horribly inaccurate in that sense.

Borg Vessels are designed for multiple-redundancies and powerful regeneration. Voyager NEVER encountered a fully armed and operational cube or it would have been obliterated.

- "Unity" - The Cube was only powered for a few seconds before the Borg Cooperative destroyed it.
- "Scorpion" - Borg never attacked Voyager
- "Collective" - The Cube had suffered massive damage and was piloted by adolescent drones
- "Endgame" - Voyager had future technology designed specifically to defend against the Borg. (Actually, the Borg adapted to both Transphasic Torpedoes and Ablative Generators pretty early and now they are pretty much useless)

Plus, I would like to mention that in "Q2", Voyager was easily overpowered by 3 fully functioning cubes which essentially only included the lead one pounding it.

Essentially the Borg are a LOT more powerful then you give them credit for and STO does not do them justice. I do not even think they should have been featured in this game as much as they are... its "Voyager" all over again. XD

((Oh and my comment about Tactical Fusion Cubes is a vessel from Armada, a fusion of Eight Cubes into One.... agreed... pretty silly but still none the less cool to play.))

neoakiraii

I'm going to be clearer one more time.



I'm not saying that Starships overcame adapting and overpowered the Borg....All I'm saying is they have it Easier than the Away team in terms of re-modulating...even though later we hardly ever hear about star ships re-modulating and they barley mentioned it anymore.

janewaywarrior

neoakiraii wrote: »

I'm going to be clearer one more time.



I'm not saying that Starships overcame adapting and overpowered the Borg....All I'm saying is they have it Easier than the Away team in terms of re-modulating...even though later we hardly ever hear about star ships re-modulating and they barley mentioned it anymore.

Thats because Tuvok automatically set ship phasers to a rotating modulation and began to start shield rotation to counter Borg weapons. This was discussed in Scorpion (Part 1) when Janeway is discussing a confrontation with the Borg, however she does hold out little hope that Voyager would survive the journey.

Its pretty common practice on Starfleet vessels (they did it on the Excalibur but they still got assimilated, same with the Roosevelt) but it does mean that Borg vessels do regenerate and adapt to weapons. Personally, I would like to be able to remodulate ship weapons and randomise shield harmonics to resist Borg weaponry better. Would make for a more epic feel to the Borg...

legendarylycan

janewaywarrior wrote: »

(Actually, the Borg adapted to both Transphasic Torpedoes and Ablative Generators pretty early and now they are pretty much useless)

i suppose this is one of those 'up to interpretation' things, but my interpritation is that the borg never adapted to the torpedoes, and were in the process of analyzing the armor when voyager destroyed 2 cubes with the aforementioned torpedoes, causing the queen to call off the third before it could gain full knowledge of how the armor worked and what weaknesses it had

of course, the queen then later gained full knowledge of the armor after assimilating admiral janeway, but subsequently lost it due to the neurolytic pathogen currently spreading throughout the collective and causing the unicomplex to self destruct, killing the queen; there's no way of knowing how many borg outside of the ones on the sphere chasing voyager through the transwarp network obtained that data before she died

janewaywarrior

shadowfang240 wrote: »

i suppose this is one of those 'up to interpretation' things, but my interpritation is that the borg never adapted to the torpedoes, and were in the process of analyzing the armor when voyager destroyed 2 cubes with the aforementioned torpedoes, causing the queen to call off the third before it could gain full knowledge of how the armor worked and what weaknesses it had

of course, the queen then later gained full knowledge of the armor after assimilating admiral janeway, but subsequently lost it due to the neurolytic pathogen currently spreading throughout the collective and causing the unicomplex to self destruct, killing the queen; there's no way of knowing how many borg outside of the ones on the sphere chasing voyager through the transwarp network obtained that data before she died

Depends which universe after Voyager you take as canon, in the "Destiny" series... Transphasics were completely useless by 2381 and the Armour Technology information had been retained by the Borg.

Of course, that is only one take on "after" voyager. I imagine something similar happened in STO's timeline to not make Borg cubes blow up in one shot. But that admittedly, is deductive reasoning.

neoakiraii

As for Borg in this game...i don't know about other Vets, but as someone who's been here since before start...I'm pretty sick of the Borg...they were overused in the shows, and they are overused in this game.

I remember when season 6 started, and i was fighting the tholians I still re-modulated out of habit, took a long time to break.

If down the road if/when Cryptic opens up the Delta Quadrant they want to revisit the STF's and make the Borg more challenging, and a uberborg I'm all for it, but I like that they are not focused on the Borg anymore.

My Klingon has been waiting 3 years to study Iconions, and by study I mean see how long it takes them to bleed out, and how many Bat'leth strikes are needed....science is important to The Empire.:D

janewaywarrior

neoakiraii wrote: »

As for Borg in this game...i don't know about other Vets, but as someone who's been here since before start...I'm pretty sick of the Borg...they were overused in the shows, and they are overused in this game.

I remember when season 6 started, and i was fighting the tholians I still re-modulated out of habit, took a long time to break.

If down the road if/when Cryptic opens up the Delta Quadrant they want to revisit the STF's and make the Borg more challenging, and a uberborg I'm all for it, but I like that they are not focused on the Borg anymore.

My Klingon has been waiting 3 years to study Iconions, and by study I mean see how long it takes them to bleed out, and how many Bat'leth strikes are needed....science is important to The Empire.:D

However the Borg are the penultimate Star Trek bad guys. They saved Star Trek: The Next Generation from cancellation and obscurity and yes, I agree... I think they have been totally overdone. I would have chosen to keep the Borg limited to change encounters in deep space... let players panic when they see a cube...

However I do not hold out high hopes for the Iconians being a very convincing villain because they are simply just replacing the same threat as the Dominion in Deep Space Nine. Has anyone actually noticed the whole Federation-Klingon war is almost exactly the same plot points as in Deep Space Nine Season 4-5? The Undine Infiltrators are just replacing the Dominion Infiltrators...

It bugs me that Cryptic could not come up with a better plot then that.

legendarylycan

janewaywarrior wrote: »

Has anyone actually noticed the whole Federation-Klingon war is almost exactly the same plot points as in Deep Space Nine Season 4-5? The Undine Infiltrators are just replacing the Dominion Infiltrators...

now that you mentioned that, and thinking over STO's overall storyline including the lore from 2379 to 2409, i am seeing parallels...far too many parallels

starkaos

I feel like the Borg should evolve somehow. Voyager effectively put a personality into the Borg. How 7 of 9 was not a mindless drone or a brutal monster, but a scared child. Right now the Borg are nothing, but space zombies. The Hive Onslaught STF kills the current Borg Queen so the Borg should be undergoing a change similar to what the Romulans are going through with the loss of Sela. I would suggest a Borg reputation with a Borg World similar to New Romulus, but the Omega Reputation already covers most of the rewards that would fit that reputation.

legendarylycan

starkaos wrote: »

I would suggest a Borg reputation with a Borg World similar to New Romulus, but the Omega Reputation already covers most of the rewards that would fit that reputation.

could always just have the world without the borg; we never did find out what happened to hugh's liberated borg after descent...

notapwefan

gfreeman98 wrote: »

Another aspect of the Borg in this game that doesn't make sense: On the ground they can adapt their personal shields to our weaponry, but in space they do not adapt. This is both inconsistent and unBorg-like.

The targeting computer takes care of starship weapon modulation. Remember that starships are equipped with awesome AI. It tells you when your target shields are down. Heck, it can even tell you where is your person of interest in starship as shown in the movie/series.
You don't have awesome AI in your weapons, and hence you need to modulate the weapon frequency manually.

sparklysoldier

I'm only halfway through the game, but at this point I really like how the Borg have been handled in the story. The parity with Federation starships can be explained by the thirty years Starfleet had to work on anti-Borg technology, but overall, the Borg are winning. The situation resembles England versus Germany in WW2: the Federation's holding onto its core systems, but if something doesn't change it can't win the war. The Borg are presented as a slow, gradual menace that's engulfing more and more star systems, and they're doing it without the gimmicks from the novels. It reminds me a lot of Picard's line from First Contact: "they invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back." That description's exactly what's happening in the game, and it lends an apocalyptic atmosphere to the setting that most of the other stories about the Borg, which have always focused on single events, haven't really aimed for.