My thought for the countdown timer being the reveal of the content coming in May or possibly season 8 hitting or being announced for Tribble.
With all their teasers the only thing that we really know is that there will be some kind of Romulan content. It could be the Romulan Faction which so many people seem to be expecting but it could just more Romulan missions continuing on the New Romulus story.
I was reading some where that it is also supposed to be bringing some more changes to the KDF faction at some point in season 8 as well as a PvP revamp some time during or after season.
Seriously? The Cardassians were irrelevant until Deep Space Nine.
TNG's The Wounded established a Cardassian/Federation war took place. This was prior to Deep Space Nine airing.
The Romulans span the series from TOS through the most recent film.
The Romulans in TOS initially had cloaked ships with no warp drive capability. Also, as we see in their "return" in TNG, they spent the entierety of the time between TOS and TNG out of communication. Can't really say they spanned that time period when the show itself establishes that they did nothing to interact with starfleet in that time period.
I think you sell the cardassians far short of the threat they were. And pump up the Romulans a bit too much. For example, Nemesis introduce the Remans in such a terrible way that I'm still reeling from it.
As much as the Romulans are my favorite trek villains, I wouldn't make the case that they are strong threats right now in STO. Their homeworld is gone. Their second attempt failed. They're so fractured and splintered and marginalized that they're stuck chasing bunny rabbits on a world where they still don't know the full extent of the radiation that is present on the world.
The Cardassians at least still have their homeworld. And their split is pretty standard. The official government is allied with starfleet. The True Way and other seditionists find allies like the Dominion where they can to spread their agenda.
The Romulans have been the antagonists in the last two movies. How many feature films have the Carddies been pivotal in, or even mentioned?
Hmmm. Nemesis and JJ Trek? That's your ringing endorsement?
And the people who quote it incessantly forget that it's Stahl's definition of complete that counts, not theirs.
And from my point fo view, KDF is currently lacking very little in that regard.
If it weren't for the Foundry, I would have little reason to log into my KDF characters. I do not like PvP, I'm not an "endgamer" per se. I like to run storyline missions and episodes. That is true for the other MMOs I play as well. I appreciate the work you and others do in the Foundry, but I would still play your missions if there was more official episode content. The more content the merrier.
In LOTRO and CoH, I never felt the need to "endgame." There is/was enough mission content to play multiple characters and never have to follow the exact same leveling path (there is overlap, of course). In LOTRO, I never grind traits or reputation; they simply come when they come during the course of running missions. A lot of the storyline quests also reward reputation points. I get to play the content I enjoy and still advance my character in multiple ways. In CoH, I never did any of the raids. I didn't need to. There was enough mission content to keep me entertained. And after the Mission Architect was added, it became almost unlimited.
I'm one of those players who wants full 1-50 mission content for a faction to be worthwhile to play. Now, if they want to start us all at level 50 and still give us that much real, honest to goodness mission content, I'd still be happy. But I am not interested in a faction dedicated to PvP, STFs, or running in circles for hours on end in an Adventure Zone for rep grind. New Romulus/Tau Dewa was plenty of fun the first two or three times through, but after that, it became monotonous. I finished the rep grind on my main to get to the tier-gated stories; I have no inclination to repeat that process again.
For some players, KDF is fine as is. For others, it is woefully incomplete and as much as we would like to play the faction too, there is not much incentive to because of the overall lack of episode content.
If it weren't for the Foundry, I would have little reason to log into my KDF characters. I do not like PvP, I'm not an "endgamer" per se. I like to run storyline missions and episodes. That is true for the other MMOs I play as well. I appreciate the work you and others do in the Foundry, but I would still play your missions if there was more official episode content. The more content the merrier.
In LOTRO and CoH, I never felt the need to "endgame." There is/was enough mission content to play multiple characters and never have to follow the exact same leveling path (there is overlap, of course). In LOTRO, I never grind traits or reputation; they simply come when they come during the course of running missions. A lot of the storyline quests also reward reputation points. I get to play the content I enjoy and still advance my character in multiple ways. In CoH, I never did any of the raids. I didn't need to. There was enough mission content to keep me entertained. And after the Mission Architect was added, it became almost unlimited.
I'm one of those players who wants full 1-50 mission content for a faction to be worthwhile to play. Now, if they want to start us all at level 50 and still give us that much real, honest to goodness mission content, I'd still be happy. But I am not interested in a faction dedicated to PvP, STFs, or running in circles for hours on end in an Adventure Zone for rep grind. New Romulus/Tau Dewa was plenty of fun the first two or three times through, but after that, it became monotonous. I finished the rep grind on my main to get to the tier-gated stories; I have no inclination to repeat that process again.
For some players, KDF is fine as is. For others, it is woefully incomplete and as much as we would like to play the faction too, there is not much incentive to because of the overall lack of episode content.
you are either talking nonsense or very drunk
there IS KDF content. it has higher quality as the FED 1-20 content.
there also is the foundry, and there are plenty of KDF missions worth the time.
the only issue for you could be = "i cannot create a lvl 1 KDF toon"
there IS KDF content. it has higher quality as the FED 1-20 content.
Feds get not only the BEST Klingon mission in the game (planet killer, klingon opera, all that fun drama), but they also get the Guardian of Forever mission, which is one of the best missions in the game.
Feds get not only the BEST Klingon mission in the game (planet killer, klingon opera, all that fun drama), but they also get the Guardian of Forever mission, which is one of the best missions in the game.
you got a point. got to replay them. It is almost years since i lvld a fed. perhaps they could re-make them and make these missions faction neutral ?
but the feik'iri missions are also very good. They deserve a medal..
i do enjoy the Romulan FE and the cardassian FE a lot, just not the DS9 part, partly to repetition.
but the feik'iri missions are also very good. They deserve a medal..
Absolutely. I really wish that someday the development team did more with continuing that thread and story.
i do enjoy the Romulan FE and the cardassian FE a lot, just not the DS9 part, partly to repetition.
Yeah, the DS9 FE is like, half of it I love and don't mind doing again and again and again. The other half is so mind numbingly boring I can't bring myself to click relay on. Heh.
The Romulan FE has some really cinematic moments in it. Makes the drudgery of parts of it still worth going through just to get those moments. And for the most part it's a truly captivating story arc.
I myself tend to avoid repeating the Deferi missions all that much because I can't stand doing that puzzle any more. Heh. Even if the Breen set still sells so well to vendors for an easy peasy way of getting some ECs for almost no effort.
Feds get not only the BEST Klingon mission in the game (planet killer, klingon opera, all that fun drama), but they also get the Guardian of Forever mission, which is one of the best missions in the game.
You think planet killer is the best? lol wut? I like the Fek'Ihri missions more.
Just for clarification as well, heres what i mean by im fine with the Klingon Faction.
I will list some of the good and bad of klingon faction in my opinion:
What im fine with:
-KDF Ships(they got all the ships i recognize from Star Trek)
-Current missions(more fun than fed)
-Costumes, i know that's a big debate, but i never really seen many diffrent types of uniforms in the series for the Klingons, I have mostly, not all, standard uniform options for my klingon and i look like they did in the series, which is enough for me(although, some modern klingon uniforms, like Jupiter uniform on fed side, would be cool)
-Home World. The home world looks WAY better than the federations, i don't see why people have a problem with it.
What I dont like:
-Starting at Commander(even though it makes more sense, i mean, who commands a ship at a low rank?), but still the fed has it that way and it worked ok when KDF was that way.
-Missions, i would like some more missions, but if they don't come, that ok, if so, that's great.
Thats it really.
if i had to rate faction. Bad,under adverage,adverage,good,great.
The Romulans in TOS initially had cloaked ships with no warp drive capability. Also, as we see in their "return" in TNG, they spent the entierety of the time between TOS and TNG out of communication. Can't really say they spanned that time period when the show itself establishes that they did nothing to interact with starfleet in that time period.
The 'no warp drive capability' thing seems to have been quietly retconned out, considering the Romulans are consistently portrayed as having warp capability (heck, you don't even need a retcon - just say the Romulan ship in Balance of Terror used a quantum singularity for energy generation instead of a warp core. No warp core as Starfleet science has it and no experience with using singularities for energy generation: "their power is simple impulse" (IE, 'the only things we recognise as power-generators are impulse reactors')).
As to the second point, a minor nitpick: the Romulans were given a withdrawal date almost two decades after The Undiscovered County. One might also note that the Romulans were portrayed as having withdrawn beyond the Neutral Zone in the years between the Earth-Romulan War and Balance of Terror, yet when they re-emerged they quickly took a place as one of the pre-eminent powers of the galaxy - evidently the Romulans have something of a habit of withdrawing into isolationism for long periods only to dramatically emerge again.
If a new faction is coming, then nice! More choice! Even if KDF isn't finished, I'm sure they'll be getting a slight update in May also. Don't forget, they get a nice lot of Dilth every 24hours with Empire Defense, wish Fed could get such a thing! :P
there IS KDF content. it has higher quality as the FED 1-20 content.
there also is the foundry, and there are plenty of KDF missions worth the time.
the only issue for you could be = "i cannot create a lvl 1 KDF toon"
No, I'm being factual. There is nothing nonsensical in what I said.
There are KDF story missions, but a relative handful compared to Federation. What little there is is high quality for the most part, but there is not much of it.
It is difficult to find quality Foundry missions for KDF as well, because there are fewer stories available there. Most of what I've found are grinders, which I'm not interested in. Then again, why would the authors spend much time writing for an incomplete faction that relatively few play?
What is it with you people and your obsession with the sub-par story missions in this game?
Cryptic themselves figured out they stink ages ago, and that piling up another hundred of them isn't going to add much. The direction they've taken makes that pretty clear. For this I am thankful.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Just started playing a kdf character the other day and don't see the supposed issue with the faction. I actually prefer starting out straight at commander. Are the first 20 levels really so much fun on fed side?
It seems like the whining from kdf is mostly just reflexively at this point.
Maybe if so many people didn't cry about kdf more people would try them and like them and thered be more support.
It's glorified Monster Play from LotRO. The storyline is comparatively non-existant, when stacked up the Fed...so if that's what you want out of the game, then I'm glad it's to your liking.
What is it with you people and your obsession with the sub-par story missions in this game?
I think it mostly has something to do with one of two things ...
1- This is a Star Trek game. People usually become fans of Star Trek because of stories. Star Trek Stories.
2- This is a Role Playing Game. So the illusion that it is story driven is still a key element of what it is.
If all you want is to grind out pebbles or coins or vegetables, why not just play farmville or something like that?
What is it with you people and your obsession with the sub-par story missions in this game?
Cryptic themselves figured out they stink ages ago, and that piling up another hundred of them isn't going to add much. The direction they've taken makes that pretty clear. For this I am thankful.
The Romulan Featured Series is probably my favourite story/mission series ever in an MMO.
The 'no warp drive capability' thing seems to have been quietly retconned out, considering the Romulans are consistently portrayed as having warp capability (heck, you don't even need a retcon - just say the Romulan ship in Balance of Terror used a quantum singularity for energy generation instead of a warp core. No warp core as Starfleet science has it and no experience with using singularities for energy generation: "their power is simple impulse" (IE, 'the only things we recognise as power-generators are impulse reactors')).
As to the second point, a minor nitpick: the Romulans were given a withdrawal date almost two decades after The Undiscovered County. One might also note that the Romulans were portrayed as having withdrawn beyond the Neutral Zone in the years between the Earth-Romulan War and Balance of Terror, yet when they re-emerged they quickly took a place as one of the pre-eminent powers of the galaxy - evidently the Romulans have something of a habit of withdrawing into isolationism for long periods only to dramatically emerge again.
I like that idea. That was something that always bugged me too. It never made sense for a Romulan STARship to not have FTL capability.
I'm with Tsuruta. At least half of the fed-only missions stink. I avoid playing them just because I don't like them. I'm not gonna demand that Cryptic make more of them. Intentionally creating missions that suck is futile.
I like that idea. That was something that always bugged me too. It never made sense for a Romulan STARship to not have FTL capability.
I'm with Tsuruta. At least half of the fed-only missions stink. I avoid playing them just because I don't like them. I'm not gonna demand that Cryptic make more of them. Intentionally creating missions that suck is futile.
Then maybe they need to hire some of the Foundry authors to write for them. An MMO without significant quest content -- especially with an IP built on story -- seems contradictory at best.
Personally, I enjoy most of the official content (there are a few clunkers) and play it on all my characters, interspersing Foundry missions along the way (including two characters that are Foundry only -- still very low level; it is a slow path ).
For those of us who do not like pvp or raids (which according to MMO industry statistics is the majority for games that have both quest content and endgame), without quest content, there isn't much point.
I will not buy character slots, ships, etc., to play a faction that has little episodic content.
I have not had the time to read the 30 some pages of post on the topic but these are a few thoughts I have.
I do not think we will see a full fledged faction in May. The first step might be Romulans as a playable race for both existing factions.
There was a discussion of how the faction will be released. I noticed that Red Shirt went away when New Romulus was introduced. It may be that is where the faction is currently being developed and it will be reopened in May to begin wider play testing of the faction.
One challenge for the faction is that it will have to join with the other factions in STF. The Romulans currently shown on New Romulus would have no problem with this. This is where I start getting into my own ideas of what the faction should look like.
A Romulan faction should differ from FED or KDF in that it should not be a united faction. In all of Trek Romulans have primarily polite backstabbing scum bag. When they had a home planet they killed each other at least as much as the killed any other race. As a Romulan captain your biggest threat should be other Romulans.
As there are 2 main side to the Romulan faction (3 if you consider the Reman) it would be interesting to have a system that the missions you chose would effect who you were friends with. A new Romulan reputation system should read a bit like a Terran Empire career.
I see there was some discussion about my last post. I am heartened to see that some posters would love to hold Cryptic responsible for making a full faction, like any other MMO on the market. I have to take a more realistic approach.
STO is still starved for story content, bug fixes and quality of life improvements. My greatest want from the game is a Romulan faction, even if only levels ~45-50.
The realist in me recognizes it is not within Cryptic's ability to deliver a third full fledged faction (let alone satisfy the bulk of the KDF posters) and advance the game in any other way. While a new faction would be great, a max level Romulan will have the same problems our existing max level characters have.
I refuse to hold the game hostage (as some would do for their factions) until a Romulan faction is fully delivered. STO needs far more work than a new faction. Even with Romulans, I would probably not come back due to issues like ship swapping BOff layouts.
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I've stopped playing 6 months ago, the feds are so boring (goodie too shoes) and the klingons are a race of thick warrior morons. we need a more interesting faction asap
I've stopped playing 6 months ago, the feds are so boring (goodie too shoes) and the klingons are a race of thick warrior morons. we need a more interesting faction asap
No offense intended here, as I realise that this was your opinion and you are, obviously, entitled to it.
I, however, enjoyed most of the story missions, particuarly the Romulan segment. I will however be somewhat disappointed if nothing is done about the Federation-Klingon war; both parties know that they were duped and there isn't really any need to drag that portion of the story on - it needs to be resolved (in my opinion).
Well, yes and no... at the moment it's a cold-ish war, and the KDF won't just call it off unless they completely refocus their efforts.
Well, yes and no... at the moment it's a cold-ish war, and the KDF won't just call it off unless they completely refocus their efforts.
Jem'pok is a fool if he believes his petty war with the Federation is of any consequence in the grand scheme of things. The fact that the majority of the houses support him show how shortsighted and naive the klingon high council has become. While the iconian takeover of the Alpha quadrant plays out, the Klingons are content with the petty honor they gain from their fighting with the Federation. Just as the Federation underestimated the undine, so, too, are the Klingons underestimating the Iconian threat to the Klingon empire.
Comments
Its the reason the Romulan faction will work, people are so desperate for a token playable Romulan, they'll be pleased.
With all their teasers the only thing that we really know is that there will be some kind of Romulan content. It could be the Romulan Faction which so many people seem to be expecting but it could just more Romulan missions continuing on the New Romulus story.
I was reading some where that it is also supposed to be bringing some more changes to the KDF faction at some point in season 8 as well as a PvP revamp some time during or after season.
TNG's The Wounded established a Cardassian/Federation war took place. This was prior to Deep Space Nine airing.
The Romulans in TOS initially had cloaked ships with no warp drive capability. Also, as we see in their "return" in TNG, they spent the entierety of the time between TOS and TNG out of communication. Can't really say they spanned that time period when the show itself establishes that they did nothing to interact with starfleet in that time period.
I think you sell the cardassians far short of the threat they were. And pump up the Romulans a bit too much. For example, Nemesis introduce the Remans in such a terrible way that I'm still reeling from it.
As much as the Romulans are my favorite trek villains, I wouldn't make the case that they are strong threats right now in STO. Their homeworld is gone. Their second attempt failed. They're so fractured and splintered and marginalized that they're stuck chasing bunny rabbits on a world where they still don't know the full extent of the radiation that is present on the world.
The Cardassians at least still have their homeworld. And their split is pretty standard. The official government is allied with starfleet. The True Way and other seditionists find allies like the Dominion where they can to spread their agenda.
Hmmm. Nemesis and JJ Trek? That's your ringing endorsement?
If it weren't for the Foundry, I would have little reason to log into my KDF characters. I do not like PvP, I'm not an "endgamer" per se. I like to run storyline missions and episodes. That is true for the other MMOs I play as well. I appreciate the work you and others do in the Foundry, but I would still play your missions if there was more official episode content. The more content the merrier.
In LOTRO and CoH, I never felt the need to "endgame." There is/was enough mission content to play multiple characters and never have to follow the exact same leveling path (there is overlap, of course). In LOTRO, I never grind traits or reputation; they simply come when they come during the course of running missions. A lot of the storyline quests also reward reputation points. I get to play the content I enjoy and still advance my character in multiple ways. In CoH, I never did any of the raids. I didn't need to. There was enough mission content to keep me entertained. And after the Mission Architect was added, it became almost unlimited.
I'm one of those players who wants full 1-50 mission content for a faction to be worthwhile to play. Now, if they want to start us all at level 50 and still give us that much real, honest to goodness mission content, I'd still be happy. But I am not interested in a faction dedicated to PvP, STFs, or running in circles for hours on end in an Adventure Zone for rep grind. New Romulus/Tau Dewa was plenty of fun the first two or three times through, but after that, it became monotonous. I finished the rep grind on my main to get to the tier-gated stories; I have no inclination to repeat that process again.
For some players, KDF is fine as is. For others, it is woefully incomplete and as much as we would like to play the faction too, there is not much incentive to because of the overall lack of episode content.
you are either talking nonsense or very drunk
there IS KDF content. it has higher quality as the FED 1-20 content.
there also is the foundry, and there are plenty of KDF missions worth the time.
the only issue for you could be = "i cannot create a lvl 1 KDF toon"
Feds get not only the BEST Klingon mission in the game (planet killer, klingon opera, all that fun drama), but they also get the Guardian of Forever mission, which is one of the best missions in the game.
you got a point. got to replay them. It is almost years since i lvld a fed. perhaps they could re-make them and make these missions faction neutral ?
but the feik'iri missions are also very good. They deserve a medal..
i do enjoy the Romulan FE and the cardassian FE a lot, just not the DS9 part, partly to repetition.
Absolutely. I really wish that someday the development team did more with continuing that thread and story.
Yeah, the DS9 FE is like, half of it I love and don't mind doing again and again and again. The other half is so mind numbingly boring I can't bring myself to click relay on. Heh.
The Romulan FE has some really cinematic moments in it. Makes the drudgery of parts of it still worth going through just to get those moments. And for the most part it's a truly captivating story arc.
I myself tend to avoid repeating the Deferi missions all that much because I can't stand doing that puzzle any more. Heh. Even if the Breen set still sells so well to vendors for an easy peasy way of getting some ECs for almost no effort.
My character Tsin'xing
I liked both a lot. Fek'lhri might have beat planet killer by a little though.
I will list some of the good and bad of klingon faction in my opinion:
What im fine with:
-KDF Ships(they got all the ships i recognize from Star Trek)
-Current missions(more fun than fed)
-Costumes, i know that's a big debate, but i never really seen many diffrent types of uniforms in the series for the Klingons, I have mostly, not all, standard uniform options for my klingon and i look like they did in the series, which is enough for me(although, some modern klingon uniforms, like Jupiter uniform on fed side, would be cool)
-Home World. The home world looks WAY better than the federations, i don't see why people have a problem with it.
What I dont like:
-Starting at Commander(even though it makes more sense, i mean, who commands a ship at a low rank?), but still the fed has it that way and it worked ok when KDF was that way.
-Missions, i would like some more missions, but if they don't come, that ok, if so, that's great.
Thats it really.
if i had to rate faction. Bad,under adverage,adverage,good,great.
i would say averaged is in good enough.
As to the second point, a minor nitpick: the Romulans were given a withdrawal date almost two decades after The Undiscovered County. One might also note that the Romulans were portrayed as having withdrawn beyond the Neutral Zone in the years between the Earth-Romulan War and Balance of Terror, yet when they re-emerged they quickly took a place as one of the pre-eminent powers of the galaxy - evidently the Romulans have something of a habit of withdrawing into isolationism for long periods only to dramatically emerge again.
No, I'm being factual. There is nothing nonsensical in what I said.
There are KDF story missions, but a relative handful compared to Federation. What little there is is high quality for the most part, but there is not much of it.
It is difficult to find quality Foundry missions for KDF as well, because there are fewer stories available there. Most of what I've found are grinders, which I'm not interested in. Then again, why would the authors spend much time writing for an incomplete faction that relatively few play?
Cryptic themselves figured out they stink ages ago, and that piling up another hundred of them isn't going to add much. The direction they've taken makes that pretty clear. For this I am thankful.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
It's glorified Monster Play from LotRO. The storyline is comparatively non-existant, when stacked up the Fed...so if that's what you want out of the game, then I'm glad it's to your liking.
1- This is a Star Trek game. People usually become fans of Star Trek because of stories. Star Trek Stories.
2- This is a Role Playing Game. So the illusion that it is story driven is still a key element of what it is.
If all you want is to grind out pebbles or coins or vegetables, why not just play farmville or something like that?
The Romulan Featured Series is probably my favourite story/mission series ever in an MMO.
I'm with Tsuruta. At least half of the fed-only missions stink. I avoid playing them just because I don't like them. I'm not gonna demand that Cryptic make more of them. Intentionally creating missions that suck is futile.
My character Tsin'xing
Then maybe they need to hire some of the Foundry authors to write for them. An MMO without significant quest content -- especially with an IP built on story -- seems contradictory at best.
Personally, I enjoy most of the official content (there are a few clunkers) and play it on all my characters, interspersing Foundry missions along the way (including two characters that are Foundry only -- still very low level; it is a slow path
For those of us who do not like pvp or raids (which according to MMO industry statistics is the majority for games that have both quest content and endgame), without quest content, there isn't much point.
I will not buy character slots, ships, etc., to play a faction that has little episodic content.
I do not think we will see a full fledged faction in May. The first step might be Romulans as a playable race for both existing factions.
There was a discussion of how the faction will be released. I noticed that Red Shirt went away when New Romulus was introduced. It may be that is where the faction is currently being developed and it will be reopened in May to begin wider play testing of the faction.
One challenge for the faction is that it will have to join with the other factions in STF. The Romulans currently shown on New Romulus would have no problem with this. This is where I start getting into my own ideas of what the faction should look like.
A Romulan faction should differ from FED or KDF in that it should not be a united faction. In all of Trek Romulans have primarily polite backstabbing scum bag. When they had a home planet they killed each other at least as much as the killed any other race. As a Romulan captain your biggest threat should be other Romulans.
As there are 2 main side to the Romulan faction (3 if you consider the Reman) it would be interesting to have a system that the missions you chose would effect who you were friends with. A new Romulan reputation system should read a bit like a Terran Empire career.
The Rommie episodes are so well done I would say they would make an amazing DS9-esque story arc, but nothing beats What Lies Beneath.
STO is still starved for story content, bug fixes and quality of life improvements. My greatest want from the game is a Romulan faction, even if only levels ~45-50.
The realist in me recognizes it is not within Cryptic's ability to deliver a third full fledged faction (let alone satisfy the bulk of the KDF posters) and advance the game in any other way. While a new faction would be great, a max level Romulan will have the same problems our existing max level characters have.
I refuse to hold the game hostage (as some would do for their factions) until a Romulan faction is fully delivered. STO needs far more work than a new faction. Even with Romulans, I would probably not come back due to issues like ship swapping BOff layouts.
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Yoda was green, and so are the Orions.
Coincidence? I think not.
My character Tsin'xing
Jem'pok is a fool if he believes his petty war with the Federation is of any consequence in the grand scheme of things. The fact that the majority of the houses support him show how shortsighted and naive the klingon high council has become. While the iconian takeover of the Alpha quadrant plays out, the Klingons are content with the petty honor they gain from their fighting with the Federation. Just as the Federation underestimated the undine, so, too, are the Klingons underestimating the Iconian threat to the Klingon empire.