I'm sorry, you misunderstood my "orbital rotation" comment. I didn't mean ESD orbiting over the Earth, I meant the Sun and Moon around the Earth from that stationary position. :P
Meaning if you guys did turn Earth into a skyfile, the Sun and Moon would be orbiting around the Earth model. Of course, you guys likely would just keep them in a permament stationary position. Though be interesting if we did see them change positions. Especially the light from the Sun.
Sorry, my mistake. Making the sun rotate around the Earth/ESD is feasible (but would need some tech work). Having the moon move at it's proper rate (one rotation every 28 or so solar rotations) is not doable within the current system.
Hmmm. True that the Moon would still orbit. Even with ESD in geosynchronous orbit. Maybe what would work is something like Bajor? Have Earth's Moon and the Sun just beyond the edge of the map? Always 90 degrees off one another?
If the skybox with the Sun and Moon can't shift around the Earth and ESD model, maybe the Earth Model and ESD should have slight movement in place? Like any starship without an Impulse Engine? Slow as molasses. But enough to suggest the proper physics?
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Sorry, my mistake. Making the sun rotate around the Earth/ESD is feasible (but would need some tech work). Having the moon move at it's proper rate (one rotation every 28 or so solar rotations) is not doable within the current system.
Well, if you guys do work out the tech, I could see it being benefitial to both you and the community. (You get a new tool, and the community get some more immersion).
And if you can get the Sun to move, surely you could have the Moon move as well as a seperate layer. Imagine the aw everyone would have when you have that rare moment of an actual in-game solar eclipse.
Well, if you guys do work out the tech, I could see it being benefitial to both you and the community. (You get a new tool, and the community get some more immersion).
And if you can get the Sun to move, surely you could have the Moon move as well as a seperate layer. Imagine the aw everyone would have when you have that rare moment of an actual in-game solar eclipse.
Making the moon move isn't the question, it's making it move at the proper rate. We have time in game. A full 24 hour cycle. In one of those cycles, the sun should orbit the Earth (visually, not actually) once. The problem is that our skyfiles work within that 24 hour period, expecting that the skyfile will loop at 0/24 hours. Since the moon needs to move only 1/28th of an orbit in one cycle, we're boned. I could make it move 1/28th of an orbit in that 24 hour cycle, but at the end of that cycle, it would pop back to where it started, not continue on.
Hypothetically, you could take the opposite approach, and have the moon set the standard, so that it orbits once in that 24 hour cycle, and have the sun orbit 28 times, but I think that would look rather crazy, since the time is hard coded, and would be moving at the same pace it always does.
It may not be 'right' but I think the best solution would be to have the sun orbit, and the moon not.
Can you not chain skyfiles instead of looping them? So that instead of one looped file you have 28 partitioned skyfiles that load in sequence and then loop back?
Another option (probably not doable based on your "hardcoded" comment, but...):
28 day long skyfile? Or do all skyfiles have to have the same loop period?
I apologize if it's a seemingly redundant question, I'm just trying to extrapolate what is set in stone, and what can be varied, based on your comments.
dunno if it's been asked, but is it possible to maybe create a transparent skyfile apart from the moon, and layer that on top of the one with the sun? Does that make any sense, or would it even work if it were possible?
Edit: NM, should have read more closely to the folks above me...
How about making two sky files? one with normal moon/sun and one with a solar eclipse? Then substitute in the sky file when a real solar eclipse is happening. Give an accolade for anyone who visits ESD during eclipse week, good for ??? (Doff, or maybe special skin type). Could have a similar event for Qonos too (Or change it up, maybe a comet or asteroid flyby that requires destruction).
Instead of giving the location of the moon set parameters, why not have the position load based on a time server and have its start point on the cycle determined that way. Just use the moons current position relative to the earth.
Making the moon move isn't the question, it's making it move at the proper rate. We have time in game. A full 24 hour cycle. In one of those cycles, the sun should orbit the Earth (visually, not actually) once. The problem is that our skyfiles work within that 24 hour period, expecting that the skyfile will loop at 0/24 hours. Since the moon needs to move only 1/28th of an orbit in one cycle, we're boned. I could make it move 1/28th of an orbit in that 24 hour cycle, but at the end of that cycle, it would pop back to where it started, not continue on.
Hypothetically, you could take the opposite approach, and have the moon set the standard, so that it orbits once in that 24 hour cycle, and have the sun orbit 28 times, but I think that would look rather crazy, since the time is hard coded, and would be moving at the same pace it always does.
It may not be 'right' but I think the best solution would be to have the sun orbit, and the moon not.
Hmmm, I see. Quite the dilemna. So the option is either a stationary moon or a one wacky time in Earth Orbit. :P
But let me ask you, since the Moon would be blocked by the Earth half of the time, there a way you could work with that?
Hmmm, I see. Quite the dilemna. So the option is either a stationary moon or a one wacky time in Earth Orbit. :P
But let me ask you, since the Moon would be blocked by the Earth half of the time, there a way you could work with that?
I dunno. Having a moving moon would be cool, but I'm finding it hard to justify that when everything else is so static. I think it would look wrong no matter how well it was done.
I dunno. Having a moving moon would be cool, but I'm finding it hard to justify that when everything else is so static. I think it would look wrong no matter how well it was done.
I know, but seems from what Taco said, having a dynamic orbiting moon, might be too dynamic for the engine.
HA HA You guys are amazing. I applaud your efforts to solve a problem that is limited by a system with which you have no experience. Nice tries everyone!
Another option (probably not doable based on your "hardcoded" comment, but...):
28 day long skyfile? Or do all skyfiles have to have the same loop period?
I apologize if it's a seemingly redundant question, I'm just trying to extrapolate what is set in stone, and what can be varied, based on your comments.
Yup, all skyfiles (an in fact, the skyfile editor) are designed to mate up to the hardcoded 24 hour clock that our servers run on.
But let me ask you, since the Moon would be blocked by the Earth half of the time, there a way you could work with that?
Unfortunately no. We may not have to render the moon for those 14 'days' but there need to be at least 14 blank days then. If we just had it loop at that point, the moon would do a half orbit, then jump back to the start.
I know, but seems from what Taco said, having a dynamic orbiting moon, might be too dynamic for the engine.
Not quite TOO Dynamic. The problem is that it is moving too slow. Our time is based on EARTH's 24 hour clock. (I know, crazy right?!) so that hamstrings us when we try to do wacky things like represent the 28 Earth Day long Lunar Day.
HA HA You guys are amazing. I applaud your efforts to solve a problem that is limited by a system with which you have no experience. Nice tries everyone!
Unfortunately no. We may not have to render the moon for those 14 'days' but there need to be at least 14 blank days then. If we just had it loop at that point, the moon would do a half orbit, then jump back to the start.
Can't help but wonder if having it jump behind the Earth might be advantageous?
Not quite TOO Dynamic. The problem is that it is moving too slow. Our time is based on EARTH's 24 hour clock. (I know, crazy right?!) so that hamstrings us when we try to do wacky things like represent the 28 Earth Day long Lunar Day.
Too bad you can't program it and tell it, "Day 1: Position A. Day 2: Position B." Yadda Yadda. Better Faux movement than actual movement. People aren't really going to be paying attention too much to the moon's movement, right?
They simply cant do things to scale, our entire galaxy map in game would only cover a partial orbit of a single planet, and there wouldn't even be room for the whole planet, just a small wedge of it.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I saw some great orbital maps in other scifi games in which a huge planet's surface was basically a background picture like a nebula and only the objects in orbit (asteroids, artificial structures, etc) were 3D models. Wouldn't something alike be possible in STO too? It looked really amazing.
I saw some great orbital maps in other scifi games in which a huge planet's surface was basically a background picture like a nebula and only the objects in orbit (asteroids, artificial structures, etc) were 3D models. Wouldn't something alike be possible in STO too? It looked really amazing.
Too bad you can't program it and tell it, "Day 1: Position A. Day 2: Position B." Yadda Yadda. Better Faux movement than actual movement. People aren't really going to be paying attention too much to the moon's movement, right?
Yeah, until the moon "jumps" and tries to occupy the same position as someone's ship. What do they do then, blow up the player?
(I've joined the conversation late - if I've missed part of the conversation where the moon is no longer solid, sorry! )
Ya, in the above scenario, the Moon would no longer be in the actual playable space. Instead, it would be rendered into the sky. This means you would no longer be able to fly over to/around the moon, but it also would now appear to be a more realistic size/distance from the Earth.
Ya, in the above scenario, the Moon would no longer be in the actual playable space. Instead, it would be rendered into the sky. This means you would no longer be able to fly over to/around the moon, but it also would now appear to be a more realistic size/distance from the Earth.
I believe the moon is behind an invisible wall now.
Ya, in the above scenario, the Moon would no longer be in the actual playable space. Instead, it would be rendered into the sky. This means you would no longer be able to fly over to/around the moon, but it also would now appear to be a more realistic size/distance from the Earth.
Yes, and it would look so much better. :P
I just wonder if there were more ways to make better looking forced perspectives.
Considering all the ways Star Trek bends and/or breaks physics and even contradicts itself from episode to episode one would think that planet scale in STO would not be that big of an issue.
Having planets be part of the background is equally immersion breaking imo since you can never run into them. Since many missions have you transport to a planet I suspect this will happen often. It also probably leads to distortion of the image around the edges due to the mapping of the environmental textures.
Again, I am not sure why this is such a huge issue really. How about a good old bug safari instead?
Example:
1) The hideous clipping / texture distortions with nebular and planets (warped image / seams)
2) Clicking on Gorn in fleet action the first time and queuing for it cause the GUI to select another fleet action instead.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Comments
Sorry, my mistake. Making the sun rotate around the Earth/ESD is feasible (but would need some tech work). Having the moon move at it's proper rate (one rotation every 28 or so solar rotations) is not doable within the current system.
If the skybox with the Sun and Moon can't shift around the Earth and ESD model, maybe the Earth Model and ESD should have slight movement in place? Like any starship without an Impulse Engine? Slow as molasses. But enough to suggest the proper physics?
Well, if you guys do work out the tech, I could see it being benefitial to both you and the community. (You get a new tool, and the community get some more immersion).
And if you can get the Sun to move, surely you could have the Moon move as well as a seperate layer. Imagine the aw everyone would have when you have that rare moment of an actual in-game solar eclipse.
Making the moon move isn't the question, it's making it move at the proper rate. We have time in game. A full 24 hour cycle. In one of those cycles, the sun should orbit the Earth (visually, not actually) once. The problem is that our skyfiles work within that 24 hour period, expecting that the skyfile will loop at 0/24 hours. Since the moon needs to move only 1/28th of an orbit in one cycle, we're boned. I could make it move 1/28th of an orbit in that 24 hour cycle, but at the end of that cycle, it would pop back to where it started, not continue on.
Hypothetically, you could take the opposite approach, and have the moon set the standard, so that it orbits once in that 24 hour cycle, and have the sun orbit 28 times, but I think that would look rather crazy, since the time is hard coded, and would be moving at the same pace it always does.
It may not be 'right' but I think the best solution would be to have the sun orbit, and the moon not.
28 day long skyfile? Or do all skyfiles have to have the same loop period?
I apologize if it's a seemingly redundant question, I'm just trying to extrapolate what is set in stone, and what can be varied, based on your comments.
Edit: NM, should have read more closely to the folks above me...
Hmmm, I see. Quite the dilemna. So the option is either a stationary moon or a one wacky time in Earth Orbit. :P
But let me ask you, since the Moon would be blocked by the Earth half of the time, there a way you could work with that?
I dunno. Having a moving moon would be cool, but I'm finding it hard to justify that when everything else is so static. I think it would look wrong no matter how well it was done.
I know, but seems from what Taco said, having a dynamic orbiting moon, might be too dynamic for the engine.
And just have it move suuuuuuuuper slow? HAH! I like it!
Yup, all skyfiles (an in fact, the skyfile editor) are designed to mate up to the hardcoded 24 hour clock that our servers run on.
I think the solution is option B, and then we just play Yakkity Sax 24/7 while in Earth Orbit.
Unfortunately no. We may not have to render the moon for those 14 'days' but there need to be at least 14 blank days then. If we just had it loop at that point, the moon would do a half orbit, then jump back to the start.
Not quite TOO Dynamic. The problem is that it is moving too slow. Our time is based on EARTH's 24 hour clock. (I know, crazy right?!) so that hamstrings us when we try to do wacky things like represent the 28 Earth Day long Lunar Day.
Eh, I'm persistent. :P
Well if people see my flying funny, they'll know why. :rolleyes:
Can't help but wonder if having it jump behind the Earth might be advantageous?
Too bad you can't program it and tell it, "Day 1: Position A. Day 2: Position B." Yadda Yadda. Better Faux movement than actual movement. People aren't really going to be paying attention too much to the moon's movement, right?
That's what we been talking about. :P
Yeah, until the moon "jumps" and tries to occupy the same position as someone's ship.
(I've joined the conversation late - if I've missed part of the conversation where the moon is no longer solid, sorry!
I believe the moon is behind an invisible wall now.
So we can fly around Earth but not the moon.
Yes, and it would look so much better. :P
I just wonder if there were more ways to make better looking forced perspectives.
There is. But it requires some imagination, some inspiration, and a whole lot of luck in getting it right.
STOWiki admin.
Having planets be part of the background is equally immersion breaking imo since you can never run into them. Since many missions have you transport to a planet I suspect this will happen often. It also probably leads to distortion of the image around the edges due to the mapping of the environmental textures.
Again, I am not sure why this is such a huge issue really. How about a good old bug safari instead?
Example:
1) The hideous clipping / texture distortions with nebular and planets (warped image / seams)
2) Clicking on Gorn in fleet action the first time and queuing for it cause the GUI to select another fleet action instead.
- Judge Aaron Satie