2- Simplification/dumbed down tactical stat skill boxes while the engineering and science skill boxes were not simplified like tactical did..in fact engineering and science got re-arranged so that the most powerful bonuses were granted at low level skill boxes... a perfect thing for escorts so they needed not spend that much skill points to max out their ship.
so a more general skill tree (because skill respecs are cheap :rolleyes: ) to make possible people use and change between ships with the same skill tree is bad.Maybe you should pay for all skill respecs in game so I can move from escort to cruiser or sci ship without the need to respec each time.
Notice how many boxes tactical had. Engineering had just as many and science had just as many. Notice too how the engineering skills were re-arranged post F2P: Shield, weapons, repair.. basically all the 'tank' skills were moved from rank 4 and 5 skill boxes down to rank 1 and 2. This is why escorts can tank now.
no ,the reason escorts can tank is because of the defence and speed .Learn how the game works.
I want to personally thank Les11 for bringing this thread back from the dead. See the sarcasm there?
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Last time I checked it worked just like omega and boosted gear bonuses/etc but not other multipliers although that may have changed but for this demonstration imma assume they have not.
Base Weapon Damage = 100 (this is beam and just for representation)
Mk 12 Ultra Rare Dmgx2 Bonus = +135
Max Skills = +99
4/3 30% consoles = 120 / 90
Totals = 354 vs 324
Damage increase via EPtW is above value * .13 VS * .16
354 * .13 = 46
324 * .16 = 51.8
So the cruiser is getting the effect of an extra 1/5th of a Tactical Console over the escort by using EPtW 3 instead of rank 2, although the escort still has an entire extra Tac console typically. If it is still a final multiplier than that would benefit the escort even more because it would increase the damage bonus from APO but I don't think it does that anymore.
You must realize the way the math works in this game benefits escorts over all other ship types every step of the way. Does a cruiser get more shields or hull back from a heal then the escort? Nope. Now granted it does get a slightly higher amount of shield from the passive regeneration and for the first three seconds of combat until all the crew dies a slightly higher amount of hull regen. But then again the escort thanks to it's built in defense increase will flat out take less damage either by making the enemy miss more often or reducing the enemies accuracy overflow which actually in the end makes any heals applied to it more effective than if they were applied to any other ship type. And that defense bonus never goes away, even at 0 speed it gets +10% bonus defense, a few of my escorts have a positive defense value even at 0 speed!
I cannot off the top of my head think of anything that directly benefits a non-escort ship more than an escort. Oh wait current leadership does as it ignores crew but that problem will be fixed upon LoRs launch isn't that just wonderful.
Last time I checked it worked just like omega and boosted gear bonuses/etc but not other multipliers although that may have changed but for this demonstration imma assume they have not.
Now that you mention that, when i did a quick test of it I specifically did not use any other bonuses just the flat value, hoping to get a more accurate number. I completely forgot that it may not be a multiplicative bonus. Hmm, in that case as you say the bonus is not quite as good. On the one hand that's kind of a bummer, on the other it makes the extra engi ensign slots more valuable.
At least its still a benefit to have more valid options to pick from as far as EPtX goes. Not sure I'd pick anything else over EPtW and EPtS on my own engi cruiser though.
I'll try to keep this simple without getting into every little detail of each individual STF. But firing at targets that are regenerating may help your DPS parse, but do not help achieve the actual objective. Firing at will hits thing like gateways, conduits, cubes still protected, and all sorts of other things that simply are wasted shots.
Yeah, firing at will at three probes making for the gateway is helpful but the shots that fire at the gateway when doing that, not so helpful. Firing at will at two borgified raptors is great. Firing at the rest of the stuff near the cube, including the still protected cube? Not so helpful.
Yup, to me it's kool aid. Keep handing it out. But firing at everything around you isn't always the best tactic in those encounters.
Now, care to share a DPS build for a cruiser that isn't tied to Aux2Batt?
As for a DPS build for a cruiser not using A2B, why would I? No one would reasonably ask for a dps escort build based around single cannons after all. You use the best tools for the job, which for cruisers means A2B for increased power levels and effective doubling of tac boff abilities. The technician doffs are the only requirement, and they are free if you spend a couple weeks doing the B'Tran colony chain
As for a DPS build for a cruiser not using A2B, why would I? No one would reasonably ask for a dps escort build based around single cannons after all. You use the best tools for the job, which for cruisers means A2B for increased power levels and effective doubling of tac boff abilities. The technician doffs are the only requirement, and they are free if you spend a couple weeks doing the B'Tran colony chain
Sad thing is though the most effective ship to use the Aux2Bat trick on is the JHES, an escort.
Sad thing is though the most effective ship to use the Aux2Bat trick on is the JHES, an escort.
Eh, it's certainly a good option and what I originally tried A2B for, but it doesn't stand with the 3 tac boff 5 tac console escorts for dhc damage, and the high end cruisers (fleet assault/fleet excel/fleet vor'cha/tactical bortasqu') can pretty easily outdamage it from a beam standpoint. Elite scorps tend to have trouble getting on target in time in high damage runs which doesn't help matters.
Sad thing is though the most effective ship to use the Aux2Bat trick on is the JHES, an escort.
The Bug makes every ship look bad, including other escorts.
If anything it makes other escorts look even worse than other ships such as cruisers and sci vessels... at least those other ships can do something else!
The Bug makes every ship look bad, including other escorts.
If anything it makes other escorts look even worse than other ships such as cruisers and sci vessels... at least those other ships can do something else!
Wait, are you prattling on about pvp specifically, or pve?
Wait, are you prattling on about pvp specifically, or pve?
I dont think he knows.I think he read between the lines this thread and got the idea that here is the place to QQ about escorts so he does that...doesnt matter if it has logic or not or if he ever played pvp ...QQ is the default on the forums.
the easiest way to do this is to scale weapons base don class size of ship....much like the old rpgs in design had class size 1 - XX in size WHERE players got to make ships up to XV
kinda fits to this style of items XII
so a lil tweaking and you get a weapon mod like shield mod and that scaled beams WHICH makes total sense and if you add warp cores that makes sense as they are doing as bigger toys scale to use more power too....
simple mechanic that really changes everything.....now torps stay as is however they a re low pwered to arm and launch BUT i would say why not have a max of two trps per fore and aft and allow spread times torps....
you want realistic there is no reason why a space armada would not go heavy for war on torp spreading
I think it is easy to throw out random suggestions, but it might be difficult and time consuming for Cryptic to completely rework the game to eliminate ship classes in a way that is significantly beneficial to game play.
It seems the approach to Romulan vessels is the first step in doing so. Whether they'll go back and rework older vessels, or if they'll transition to the new design solely through new releases is unknown.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Comments
so a more general skill tree (because skill respecs are cheap :rolleyes: ) to make possible people use and change between ships with the same skill tree is bad.Maybe you should pay for all skill respecs in game so I can move from escort to cruiser or sci ship without the need to respec each time.
no ,the reason escorts can tank is because of the defence and speed .Learn how the game works.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
It was my understanding that its a final bonus, its calculated after everything else unlike Tac consoles.
Last time I checked it worked just like omega and boosted gear bonuses/etc but not other multipliers although that may have changed but for this demonstration imma assume they have not.
EPtW2 /w 4 console escort VS EPtW3 /w 3 console cruiser
Base Weapon Damage = 100 (this is beam and just for representation)
Mk 12 Ultra Rare Dmgx2 Bonus = +135
Max Skills = +99
4/3 30% consoles = 120 / 90
Totals = 354 vs 324
Damage increase via EPtW is above value * .13 VS * .16
354 * .13 = 46
324 * .16 = 51.8
So the cruiser is getting the effect of an extra 1/5th of a Tactical Console over the escort by using EPtW 3 instead of rank 2, although the escort still has an entire extra Tac console typically. If it is still a final multiplier than that would benefit the escort even more because it would increase the damage bonus from APO but I don't think it does that anymore.
You must realize the way the math works in this game benefits escorts over all other ship types every step of the way. Does a cruiser get more shields or hull back from a heal then the escort? Nope. Now granted it does get a slightly higher amount of shield from the passive regeneration and for the first three seconds of combat until all the crew dies a slightly higher amount of hull regen. But then again the escort thanks to it's built in defense increase will flat out take less damage either by making the enemy miss more often or reducing the enemies accuracy overflow which actually in the end makes any heals applied to it more effective than if they were applied to any other ship type. And that defense bonus never goes away, even at 0 speed it gets +10% bonus defense, a few of my escorts have a positive defense value even at 0 speed!
I cannot off the top of my head think of anything that directly benefits a non-escort ship more than an escort. Oh wait current leadership does as it ignores crew but that problem will be fixed upon LoRs launch isn't that just wonderful.
Now that you mention that, when i did a quick test of it I specifically did not use any other bonuses just the flat value, hoping to get a more accurate number. I completely forgot that it may not be a multiplicative bonus. Hmm, in that case as you say the bonus is not quite as good. On the one hand that's kind of a bummer, on the other it makes the extra engi ensign slots more valuable.
At least its still a benefit to have more valid options to pick from as far as EPtX goes. Not sure I'd pick anything else over EPtW and EPtS on my own engi cruiser though.
Bit off topic for this, so I'll address the STF details in my cruiser thread tonight as they are legit concerns I once had myself: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=654691
As for a DPS build for a cruiser not using A2B, why would I? No one would reasonably ask for a dps escort build based around single cannons after all. You use the best tools for the job, which for cruisers means A2B for increased power levels and effective doubling of tac boff abilities. The technician doffs are the only requirement, and they are free if you spend a couple weeks doing the B'Tran colony chain
Sad thing is though the most effective ship to use the Aux2Bat trick on is the JHES, an escort.
Eh, it's certainly a good option and what I originally tried A2B for, but it doesn't stand with the 3 tac boff 5 tac console escorts for dhc damage, and the high end cruisers (fleet assault/fleet excel/fleet vor'cha/tactical bortasqu') can pretty easily outdamage it from a beam standpoint. Elite scorps tend to have trouble getting on target in time in high damage runs which doesn't help matters.
The Bug makes every ship look bad, including other escorts.
If anything it makes other escorts look even worse than other ships such as cruisers and sci vessels... at least those other ships can do something else!
Wait, are you prattling on about pvp specifically, or pve?
I dont think he knows.I think he read between the lines this thread and got the idea that here is the place to QQ about escorts so he does that...doesnt matter if it has logic or not or if he ever played pvp ...QQ is the default on the forums.
kinda fits to this style of items XII
so a lil tweaking and you get a weapon mod like shield mod and that scaled beams WHICH makes total sense and if you add warp cores that makes sense as they are doing as bigger toys scale to use more power too....
simple mechanic that really changes everything.....now torps stay as is however they a re low pwered to arm and launch BUT i would say why not have a max of two trps per fore and aft and allow spread times torps....
you want realistic there is no reason why a space armada would not go heavy for war on torp spreading