I'm just not sure what your testing is proving other than lockbox ships like the D'Kora are more powerful options and the excelsior continues to be Geko's pet ship.
Thanks for that? I guess?
If they're going to use an Assault Cruiser, they ought to use the C-Store or Fleet version as Lockbox ships are balanced loosely to fleet level and free RA ships are not supposed to be fully on par with C-Store ships.
Now, would the difference be enough? Probably not. I think the Sovvie and Galaxy are both probably underpowered.
But Geko doesn't deny that a lot of T5 ships need a tune up and has said that it isn't the goal for older T5 C-Store ships to be less powerful than newer T5 C-Store ships. I suspect this is particularly true with ships that are just older T5/T4 ships with a BO station swap or a modest stat increase.
However, that's less of a case of cruisers needing a buff and more of older C-Store ships needing a buff. And not necessarily to damage output as that isn't what cruisers' primary task is.
I'm just not sure what your testing is proving other than lockbox ships like the D'Kora are more powerful options and the excelsior continues to be Geko's pet ship.
Thanks for that? I guess?
The Failnought cruiser doesn't have a lt cmd tac slot, its not an even comparison. Anyone thinking its a damage ship is a joke. Maybe I should have used an Attrox? It can load cannons, lol.
Here it is one last time, since it is very very difficult for you to understand.
The excelsior was used to establish the damage it is capable of.
The Dkora was used after to provide a similar platform capable of mounting DHC weapons.
The test results are not primarily about comparing cruisers, where anyone would get that idea is beyond me, furthering your own agenda isn't going to work.
This is about comparing weapon types from one platform
If someone wishes they can go back and see that a normal Fed cruiser is capable of going very close to the same numbers, they can. The Dkora itself is much closer to a KDF battle cruiser than anything.
Both the Assault Refit and the Excelsior will have less than a 5% difference in damage output compared to the lock box ship, the 4 tactical consoles even gives the excelsior a benefit in some areas. If you invested more heavily in beam doffs that damage would go up further.
I've tried to state this before and got shot down by one of the escort-tards who can't read English trolling out my thread within the first 10 minutes, but the issue I have with cruisers (and this applies to all classes of ship) is that *within their own subgenre* there isn't enough difference between tiers.
The Deferi Daily stuff emphasizes this pretty well. The three little frigates consistently do more damage than a Chael Gret cruiser. From a pure Star Trek nerd perspective, this is not working as intended. This is not how combat in Star Trek is supposed to work. This has nothing to do with cruisers vs. escorts, which grossly oversimplifies what isn't working in this game. Ship Type 1 vs. Ship Type 1 isn't even working correctly because higher tier ships can be outgunned by swarms that should be relative fodder.
I'm actually interested in this idea the developers have thrown around about adding a Warp Core piece of equipment to the game, as I feel it may address this somewhat. It could be something to give higher tier ships a clear advantage in energy output and damage production vs. lesser ships of the same kind. And it would go a long way to addressing how blatantly broken a lot of the current mechanics are. In theory.
Escorts still have way too much defense because Tac Team is the best engineering skill in the game by a country mile, but at least it would be a step in the right direction. Unless they make tac team an engineering skill (which it is), and throw emergency power to shields over to tactical (which it is), issues will continue. Won't happen though.
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The Dkora was used after to provide a similar platform capable of mounting DHC weapons.
The D'Kora is a lockbox ship. It's providing skewed results that don't tell us anything we didn't already know (that the D'Kora breaks the rules and is overpowered, which all Lockbox ships are).
However, I provided the Dreadnaught as an example of a federation cruiser that can equip DHCs because you stated that:
You can't test DHCs on fed cruisers
Turns out, you can.
The test results are not primarily about comparing cruisers, where anyone would get that idea is beyond me, furthering your own agenda isn't going to work.
Probably from your title and your first post.
"My Beams vs Cannons / Cruisers vs Escorts Thread"
So your agenda is to prove Cruisers stack up against Escorts, by citing Geko's pet ship and the D'Kora?
The PVP population is less than 2% of the players, Im tired of them getting a voice over the majortiy.
They don't. Reading the forums you might think they do, but they don't. The last PVP updates Cryptic did were the PVP queues, and the two new maps, one was Shantytown.
All those "balance" passes on BOFF powers were made to tweak PVE encounters. PVP has been an afterthought for years.
I dont understand why is anyone comparing one ship to another ship when talking about cannons and beams.
Just do what we do in our fleet when running a parser, put Beams on the Escort.
First Run Infected with Cannons
Then Run Infected again with Beams
If the person doing the testing is any good with Beams you will see...
Let me give you a hint who wins Starbase 24 more people with Beams or Cannons.
or
In a PVP who wins more the person with Beams or Cannons.
Actually, when I tested FA3 in a while, I was using a 5 beams steamrunner with A2B..and I was first/second in all fleet actions. There is no problem with beams in PvE, they are fundamentaly broken in PvP.
But since PvP players are 2nd rate citizens and are labeled as the 14 years old, and the devs are DS9 fanboys who favour escorts and cannons....nothing is likely to be changed.
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Sorry, but your test is skewed as another has said due to AoEs. Your also hitting NPCs that do not run all the evade/ACC that other players run as well so your hit ratios are not what any1 would encounter in even the easiest PVP match.
Run 2 CSVs on an escort and you might get some idea of a comparison and stay put so your DPS can add up. (don't turn your fire facings and engine around like a chicken with it's head cut off)
I have the fleet excel and the new andy and I've flew an excel since the day they appeared in the store. There is no comparison at all via DHCs and beams even in the excel. The andy 'tanks" better than the excel due to the fact the power requirements are less and doesn't need a power console and that was with only 6 beams on the excel. Most of the time I will 1/4 engine power in the 20 mans and take everything out in the andy. About 99% of the time I steal agro in ISE and tank the tac cube/gate(s) as well. The only difference I see, in the benefit of the excel is it's healing capabilitys via it's eng BO slots.
There is no way that an excel, no matter how many doffs you have stacking beam damage, can stay up with the andy, the fleet def for that matter, much less the bug. I do however want that large DPS number at the end myself that you received on your tests, so I use 2 MK 12s ACC X3 beams on the back with FaW 1 as well (just to take up those numbers via AoE damage and to get rid of runabouts/spam in PVP)
Actually, when I tested FA3 in a while, I was using a 5 beams steamrunner with A2B..and I was first/second in all fleet actions. There is no problem with beams in PvE, they are fundamentaly broken in PvP.
But since PvP players are 2nd rate citizens and are labeled as the 14 years old, and the devs are DS9 fanboys who favour escorts and cannons....nothing is likely to be changed.
I agree there is nothing wroning with beams, the only complaint I hear is that most Cruisers should have 4 Tac consoles.
Thats the downfall with Cruisers not enough TAC consoles = less DPS.
Sorry, but your test is skewed as another has said due to AoEs. Your also hitting NPCs that do not run all the evade/ACC that other players run as well so your hit ratios are not what any1 would encounter in even the easiest PVP match.
Run 2 CSVs on an escort and you might get some idea of a comparison and stay put so your DPS can add up. (don't turn your fire facings and engine around like a chicken with it's head cut off)
Skewed how?
Escorts that use CRF in STFs clock in around 4-5k DPS
Escorts using CSV are always higher
STFs are about damaging multiple ships, thats the point of using AoEs, the results are as intended.
Again, don't bring PvP into a PvE discussion, it doesn't belong.
Not really,
CRF is a single target boost in damage
CSV is a multi target boost in damage, but a smaller boost than CRF.
BFaW is a DPS boost divided by targets, its pretty lethal against single targets.
The damage on CSV scales to ridiculous levels, I think CSV3 is something like up to 5 targets @ 125 or 130%, while CRF only does an extra 15-20%
No self respecting escort DPSer can walk into an STF with CRF and brag about their DPS, because even CSV1 will out damage their CRF3.. been there, tested, logged.
Truth is, most escorts take CRF into an STF because they aren't as durable as they brag, there is a lot of over confidence. For an escort to survive CSE while under agro from the cube, Neg and raptor the whole time takes a bit of work, and then move to the next cube and repeat. CRF minimizes the agro to just one ship.
Skewed how?
Escorts that use CRF in STFs clock in around 4-5k DPS
Escorts using CSV are always higher
STFs are about damaging multiple ships, thats the point of using AoEs, the results are as intended.
Again, don't bring PvP into a PvE discussion, it doesn't belong.
You need a better build if the best your escort can do is 4-5k DPS mate even with CRF.
Not really,
CRF is a single target boost in damage
CSV is a multi target boost in damage, but a smaller boost than CRF.
BFaW is a DPS boost divided by targets, its pretty lethal against single targets.
The damage on CSV scales to ridiculous levels, I think CSV3 is something like up to 5 targets @ 125 or 130%, while CRF only does an extra 15-20%
No self respecting escort DPSer can walk into an STF with CRF and brag about their DPS, because even CSV1 will out damage their CRF3.. been there, tested, logged.
Truth is, most escorts take CRF into an STF because they aren't as durable as they brag, there is a lot of over confidence. For an escort to survive CSE while under agro from the cube, Neg and raptor the whole time takes a bit of work, and then move to the next cube and repeat. CRF minimizes the agro to just one ship.
So my wrongs of CSV3 doing 125% while CRF doing another 20-25, being off by 5 was that wrong? I didn't post the wrong mechanics for the ability to start with...
My HEC does 15k DPS in CSE, it bursts around 45k DPS, I know how to build an escort.
CRF caps out in DPS, perhaps people don't know how to log properly.
I asked why you didn't use an assault cruiser. That IS a tactical cruiser. So, again, I ask, why did you use the D'Kora and the Excelsior, and not an assault cruiser?
You're kidding right?
Ok, I'll answer it for you... because if you want to do something, you should use the right tools for it. The AC was once an OK ship, but these days it falls behind the lockbox/fleet/+1 ships, so why waste time worrying about?
I find it silly anyone would try to bait the discussion to turn towards the whys and hows of older cruisers are pretty much useless, since we all pretty much know that. So instead we focus on the more capable ships.
Ok, I'll answer it for you... because if you want to do something, you should use the right tools for it. The AC was once an OK ship, but these days it falls behind the lockbox/fleet/+1 ships, so why waste time worrying about?
I find it silly anyone would try to bait the discussion to turn towards the whys and hows of older cruisers are pretty much useless, since we all pretty much know that. So instead we focus on the more capable ships.
So here's the thing right. Why bother spending all of that money and/or resources to get a Fleet Excelsior or a D'Kora when you can do more DPS and contribute easier to STFs and other PVE encounters in a free Patrol Escort?
That's the thing here. It's far easier to do that. Fly the free escort. Contribute more to PVE.
This thread is simply proving that the lockbox ships are what we already knew they were. And the "myth" being perpetuated here is that cruisers can compete in PVE. When they require a massive committment of time and money/resources to even try to compete.
It's just so much easier for players to fly free escorts and outdo those cruisers. Then when they're done grinding all of that PVE stuff, they'll have great PVE equipment to put on a superior Escort, like a Fleet Defiant or something.
Developers seem to have stated their intent to not work on them.
Cruisers cannot output enough damage to defend themselves, let alone actually contribute "pressure damage".
Unless you want to specifically build for support and healing (in which case you might as well toss out any skill in weapons), cruisers don't have much of a place in PvP either.
Federation cruisers are a waste of time and resources, and this is in spite of them being one of the primary draws to a Star Trek game in the first place. There are people who join this game because they want to feel like a bigshot starship captain, not because they want to play Freespace or any other space fighter sim. It is bewildering how the devs refuse to cater to the wishes of such an audience by working on improving existing cruiser products. Surely that means far less work for them than releasing new ships every three months or so?
Beams hit harder from further away, but that's about it. They have a much larger firing arc, but that's a null point since escorts can move around so well. However, BO3 does more damage than any cannon combination ability can. That's a hit for 800+% (which if it crits can amount to a beam shot un-buffed of over 20k, fully buffed can rise up to 40-60k, I have actually seen one hit 100k). There is NO cannon ability that can reach that level of burst. But that's the only real exception it seems.
Good luck trying to hit anything with Beam Overload 3, because it seems to miss about half the time against an escort. Would rather have it deal less damage in exchange for a higher guarantee of a hit... only time it seems to hit is if the target is stationary, and that also requires a high degree of skill in accuracy. I also get the impression that you're failing to factoring in the combined firepower of 4-5 dual heavy cannons under Cannon: Rapid Fire 3, as opposed to just one beam array or dual beam bank using Overload, as well as the general unlikelihood of being able to score a critical hit on a moving target in the first place.
So here's the thing right. Why bother spending all of that money and/or resources to get a Fleet Excelsior or a D'Kora when you can do more DPS and contribute easier to STFs and other PVE encounters in a free Patrol Escort?
..................
Why bother with cruisers in PVE?
Again, you're kidding right?
STO is a vanity game. Merely wanting to fly something different is enough reason to do anything.
If a single player does less dps but tanks, the dps loss is not going to make the group fail an STF or even an optional. If someone feels THEIR dps loss is not made up by their tanking or other contributions then they really need to work on their build and practice with it until they figure out how to do so.
Of course, if all they care about contributing is DPS then why are they in a cruiser in the first place? Or, why don't they go fly KDF battlecruisers?
So my wrongs of CSV3 doing 125% while CRF doing another 20-25, being off by 5 was that wrong? I didn't post the wrong mechanics for the ability to start with...
My HEC does 15k DPS in CSE, it bursts around 45k DPS, I know how to build an escort.
CRF caps out in DPS, perhaps people don't know how to log properly.
No my friend your just not correct CSV 3 only does 25% increase to base damage not 125%.
If a single player does less dps but tanks, the dps loss is not going to make the group fail an STF or even an optional. If someone feels THEIR dps loss is not made up by their tanking or other contributions then they really need to work on their build and practice with it until they figure out how to do so.
Now I have to ask. You're kidding right? Tanking? In end-game PVE? What use is that?
Of course, if all they care about contributing is DPS then why are they in a cruiser in the first place? Or, why don't they go fly KDF battlecruisers?
KDF has red UIs, but still suffer from the same disparity. Their Raiders, Raptors and Destroyers are far more efficient at grinding PVE, so why fly a battle cruiser?
No self respecting escort DPSer can walk into an STF with CRF and brag about their DPS
Yes I can.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 10060 (3642) Plasma Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 11111 (4023) Plasma Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 11137 (4032) Plasma Damage to Assimilated Carrier.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 19809 (7172) Plasma Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 18467 (6686) Plasma Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
[Combat (Self)] Your Dual Heavy Plasma Cannons - Rapid Fire III deals 20367 (7374) Plasma Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
If your thinking it does 25% against 5 target that not how it works.
If your shoot for 2500 using CRF against one targets you hit that target for 2500..
Using CSV you shoot for 2500 and hit 5 targets you only do 500 against each one.
Sorry Blake, you are wrong. It is a straight up damage boost to multiple targets, it used to divided damage.. in S3 or 4 maybe. You need to actually look at damage logs, check out the damage a CSV does, low/high/median.
What many average escort players don't get, when you look at what they did, their turrets do as much damage as their cannons. Their CRF3 is a fraction of the damage a CSV1 does.
Single target burst damage is pretty much irrelevant in STFs, different in pvp, but in stfs its not the way to go. I have never seen an stf log where someone using rapid fire was even close to the top.
Sorry Blake, you are wrong. It is a straight up damage boost to multiple targets, it used to divided damage.. in S3 or 4 maybe. You need to actually look at damage logs, check out the damage a CSV does, low/high/median.
What many average escort players don't get, when you look at what they did, their turrets do as much damage as their cannons. Their CRF3 is a fraction of the damage a CSV1 does.
Single target burst damage is pretty much irrelevant in STFs, different in pvp, but in stfs its not the way to go. I have never seen an stf log where someone using rapid fire was even close to the top.
why even bother dignifying that response withan answer? he obviously has no practical experience with scatter volley and cites a user created, peer reviewed wikipedia page as his reference. why even bother helping these noobs if all you're going to get is trolled?
KDF has red UIs, but still suffer from the same disparity. Their Raiders, Raptors and Destroyers are far more efficient at grinding PVE, so why fly a battle cruiser?
My Fleet Tor'Kaht disagrees with you. It out DPS most other ships in game.
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Escorts still have way too much defense because Tac Team is the best engineering skill in the game by a country mile, but at least it would be a step in the right direction. Unless they make tac team an engineering skill (which it is), and throw emergency power to shields over to tactical (which it is), issues will continue. Won't happen though.
... so I would go from having 2x EPtS and 2x Tac Team to... 2x EPts and 2x Tac Team. What exactly does that "fix" (in quotes for a reason :rolleyes:)?
Anybody that has actually used Scatter Volley knows that the full damage is applied equally to each target. Scatter Volley is not only a small damage bonus on single targets, it can as much as triple your damage output if targets are available to hit. Groups of enemies simply melt.
Im starting move to Cruisers are fine if built right camp.
I and four or five other Raptors and battle cruisers fought a single Cruiser in Kerrat yesterday and it not only killed me in the combat but survived handily to the point that it escaped the others and lived.
I can only believe it was piloted by its captain that knew how to use his build properly.
Comments
If they're going to use an Assault Cruiser, they ought to use the C-Store or Fleet version as Lockbox ships are balanced loosely to fleet level and free RA ships are not supposed to be fully on par with C-Store ships.
Now, would the difference be enough? Probably not. I think the Sovvie and Galaxy are both probably underpowered.
But Geko doesn't deny that a lot of T5 ships need a tune up and has said that it isn't the goal for older T5 C-Store ships to be less powerful than newer T5 C-Store ships. I suspect this is particularly true with ships that are just older T5/T4 ships with a BO station swap or a modest stat increase.
However, that's less of a case of cruisers needing a buff and more of older C-Store ships needing a buff. And not necessarily to damage output as that isn't what cruisers' primary task is.
The Failnought cruiser doesn't have a lt cmd tac slot, its not an even comparison. Anyone thinking its a damage ship is a joke. Maybe I should have used an Attrox? It can load cannons, lol.
Here it is one last time, since it is very very difficult for you to understand.
The excelsior was used to establish the damage it is capable of.
The Dkora was used after to provide a similar platform capable of mounting DHC weapons.
The test results are not primarily about comparing cruisers, where anyone would get that idea is beyond me, furthering your own agenda isn't going to work.
This is about comparing weapon types from one platform
If someone wishes they can go back and see that a normal Fed cruiser is capable of going very close to the same numbers, they can. The Dkora itself is much closer to a KDF battle cruiser than anything.
Both the Assault Refit and the Excelsior will have less than a 5% difference in damage output compared to the lock box ship, the 4 tactical consoles even gives the excelsior a benefit in some areas. If you invested more heavily in beam doffs that damage would go up further.
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Fixing PVP will not bring more players to STO or make Cryptic anymore money.
The Deferi Daily stuff emphasizes this pretty well. The three little frigates consistently do more damage than a Chael Gret cruiser. From a pure Star Trek nerd perspective, this is not working as intended. This is not how combat in Star Trek is supposed to work. This has nothing to do with cruisers vs. escorts, which grossly oversimplifies what isn't working in this game. Ship Type 1 vs. Ship Type 1 isn't even working correctly because higher tier ships can be outgunned by swarms that should be relative fodder.
I'm actually interested in this idea the developers have thrown around about adding a Warp Core piece of equipment to the game, as I feel it may address this somewhat. It could be something to give higher tier ships a clear advantage in energy output and damage production vs. lesser ships of the same kind. And it would go a long way to addressing how blatantly broken a lot of the current mechanics are. In theory.
Escorts still have way too much defense because Tac Team is the best engineering skill in the game by a country mile, but at least it would be a step in the right direction. Unless they make tac team an engineering skill (which it is), and throw emergency power to shields over to tactical (which it is), issues will continue. Won't happen though.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
The D'Kora is a lockbox ship. It's providing skewed results that don't tell us anything we didn't already know (that the D'Kora breaks the rules and is overpowered, which all Lockbox ships are).
However, I provided the Dreadnaught as an example of a federation cruiser that can equip DHCs because you stated that:
Turns out, you can.
Probably from your title and your first post.
"My Beams vs Cannons / Cruisers vs Escorts Thread"
So your agenda is to prove Cruisers stack up against Escorts, by citing Geko's pet ship and the D'Kora?
Thanks for the insight!
They don't. Reading the forums you might think they do, but they don't. The last PVP updates Cryptic did were the PVP queues, and the two new maps, one was Shantytown.
All those "balance" passes on BOFF powers were made to tweak PVE encounters. PVP has been an afterthought for years.
Actually, when I tested FA3 in a while, I was using a 5 beams steamrunner with A2B..and I was first/second in all fleet actions. There is no problem with beams in PvE, they are fundamentaly broken in PvP.
But since PvP players are 2nd rate citizens and are labeled as the 14 years old, and the devs are DS9 fanboys who favour escorts and cannons....nothing is likely to be changed.
Run 2 CSVs on an escort and you might get some idea of a comparison and stay put so your DPS can add up. (don't turn your fire facings and engine around like a chicken with it's head cut off)
I have the fleet excel and the new andy and I've flew an excel since the day they appeared in the store. There is no comparison at all via DHCs and beams even in the excel. The andy 'tanks" better than the excel due to the fact the power requirements are less and doesn't need a power console and that was with only 6 beams on the excel. Most of the time I will 1/4 engine power in the 20 mans and take everything out in the andy. About 99% of the time I steal agro in ISE and tank the tac cube/gate(s) as well. The only difference I see, in the benefit of the excel is it's healing capabilitys via it's eng BO slots.
There is no way that an excel, no matter how many doffs you have stacking beam damage, can stay up with the andy, the fleet def for that matter, much less the bug. I do however want that large DPS number at the end myself that you received on your tests, so I use 2 MK 12s ACC X3 beams on the back with FaW 1 as well (just to take up those numbers via AoE damage and to get rid of runabouts/spam in PVP)
I agree there is nothing wroning with beams, the only complaint I hear is that most Cruisers should have 4 Tac consoles.
Thats the downfall with Cruisers not enough TAC consoles = less DPS.
Skewed how?
Escorts that use CRF in STFs clock in around 4-5k DPS
Escorts using CSV are always higher
STFs are about damaging multiple ships, thats the point of using AoEs, the results are as intended.
Again, don't bring PvP into a PvE discussion, it doesn't belong.
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CRF inflicts the same damage towards one target.
LOL: Same damage output from both end of story.
CRF is a single target boost in damage
CSV is a multi target boost in damage, but a smaller boost than CRF.
BFaW is a DPS boost divided by targets, its pretty lethal against single targets.
The damage on CSV scales to ridiculous levels, I think CSV3 is something like up to 5 targets @ 125 or 130%, while CRF only does an extra 15-20%
No self respecting escort DPSer can walk into an STF with CRF and brag about their DPS, because even CSV1 will out damage their CRF3.. been there, tested, logged.
Truth is, most escorts take CRF into an STF because they aren't as durable as they brag, there is a lot of over confidence. For an escort to survive CSE while under agro from the cube, Neg and raptor the whole time takes a bit of work, and then move to the next cube and repeat. CRF minimizes the agro to just one ship.
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You need a better build if the best your escort can do is 4-5k DPS mate even with CRF.
Sorry friend your stats are wrong
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Cannon:_Rapid_Fire
CRF 3 does 50% base damage
VS
CSV 3 that adds 25%
So my wrongs of CSV3 doing 125% while CRF doing another 20-25, being off by 5 was that wrong? I didn't post the wrong mechanics for the ability to start with...
My HEC does 15k DPS in CSE, it bursts around 45k DPS, I know how to build an escort.
CRF caps out in DPS, perhaps people don't know how to log properly.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
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You're kidding right?
Ok, I'll answer it for you... because if you want to do something, you should use the right tools for it. The AC was once an OK ship, but these days it falls behind the lockbox/fleet/+1 ships, so why waste time worrying about?
I find it silly anyone would try to bait the discussion to turn towards the whys and hows of older cruisers are pretty much useless, since we all pretty much know that. So instead we focus on the more capable ships.
So here's the thing right. Why bother spending all of that money and/or resources to get a Fleet Excelsior or a D'Kora when you can do more DPS and contribute easier to STFs and other PVE encounters in a free Patrol Escort?
That's the thing here. It's far easier to do that. Fly the free escort. Contribute more to PVE.
This thread is simply proving that the lockbox ships are what we already knew they were. And the "myth" being perpetuated here is that cruisers can compete in PVE. When they require a massive committment of time and money/resources to even try to compete.
It's just so much easier for players to fly free escorts and outdo those cruisers. Then when they're done grinding all of that PVE stuff, they'll have great PVE equipment to put on a superior Escort, like a Fleet Defiant or something.
Why bother with cruisers in PVE?
Why bother with cruisers at all.
Developers seem to have stated their intent to not work on them.
Cruisers cannot output enough damage to defend themselves, let alone actually contribute "pressure damage".
Unless you want to specifically build for support and healing (in which case you might as well toss out any skill in weapons), cruisers don't have much of a place in PvP either.
Federation cruisers are a waste of time and resources, and this is in spite of them being one of the primary draws to a Star Trek game in the first place. There are people who join this game because they want to feel like a bigshot starship captain, not because they want to play Freespace or any other space fighter sim. It is bewildering how the devs refuse to cater to the wishes of such an audience by working on improving existing cruiser products. Surely that means far less work for them than releasing new ships every three months or so?
Good luck trying to hit anything with Beam Overload 3, because it seems to miss about half the time against an escort. Would rather have it deal less damage in exchange for a higher guarantee of a hit... only time it seems to hit is if the target is stationary, and that also requires a high degree of skill in accuracy. I also get the impression that you're failing to factoring in the combined firepower of 4-5 dual heavy cannons under Cannon: Rapid Fire 3, as opposed to just one beam array or dual beam bank using Overload, as well as the general unlikelihood of being able to score a critical hit on a moving target in the first place.
Again, you're kidding right?
STO is a vanity game. Merely wanting to fly something different is enough reason to do anything.
If a single player does less dps but tanks, the dps loss is not going to make the group fail an STF or even an optional. If someone feels THEIR dps loss is not made up by their tanking or other contributions then they really need to work on their build and practice with it until they figure out how to do so.
Of course, if all they care about contributing is DPS then why are they in a cruiser in the first place? Or, why don't they go fly KDF battlecruisers?
No my friend your just not correct CSV 3 only does 25% increase to base damage not 125%.
http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Cannon:_Scatter_Volley
If your thinking it does 25% against 5 target that not how it works.
If your shoot for 2500 using CRF against one targets you hit that target for 2500..
Using CSV you shoot for 2500 and hit 5 targets you only do 500 against each one.
Now I have to ask. You're kidding right? Tanking? In end-game PVE? What use is that?
KDF has red UIs, but still suffer from the same disparity. Their Raiders, Raptors and Destroyers are far more efficient at grinding PVE, so why fly a battle cruiser?
Yes I can.
I can do the same thing in non stfs as well.
Sorry Blake, you are wrong. It is a straight up damage boost to multiple targets, it used to divided damage.. in S3 or 4 maybe. You need to actually look at damage logs, check out the damage a CSV does, low/high/median.
What many average escort players don't get, when you look at what they did, their turrets do as much damage as their cannons. Their CRF3 is a fraction of the damage a CSV1 does.
Single target burst damage is pretty much irrelevant in STFs, different in pvp, but in stfs its not the way to go. I have never seen an stf log where someone using rapid fire was even close to the top.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
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why even bother dignifying that response withan answer? he obviously has no practical experience with scatter volley and cites a user created, peer reviewed wikipedia page as his reference. why even bother helping these noobs if all you're going to get is trolled?
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
My Fleet Tor'Kaht disagrees with you. It out DPS most other ships in game.
I'm noticing some violations of PWE Community Rules and Policies in this thread.
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... so I would go from having 2x EPtS and 2x Tac Team to... 2x EPts and 2x Tac Team. What exactly does that "fix" (in quotes for a reason :rolleyes:)?
I and four or five other Raptors and battle cruisers fought a single Cruiser in Kerrat yesterday and it not only killed me in the combat but survived handily to the point that it escaped the others and lived.
I can only believe it was piloted by its captain that knew how to use his build properly.
R.I.P