It's Sort of Depressing...

ztempest

I actually skim over a lot of the threads in many of the different areas of the forums. I am thinking that most of us do.

I am picking up on a common theme amongst the Federation-centric and general forums that has me a bit down. That theme is a yearning for a true Romulan faction...and married to that theme are the ideas that for all intents and purposes the KDF as a faction should be considered "done" because it is likely that more players will flock to the Romulan faction anyway, and the KDF really does not need much new content...or ships...or storyline..and that it has been three years...and this is all the KDF should expect, other than the ability to start at level 1. I even saw one guy say that the number of ships are like 50 or so available at Tier 5, and that the KDF has more variety of vessels than the Feds do, and don't need any more ship types at all.

You know...if that happens (a new rom faction with the KDF being considered "done" as is)..well, I am a lifetime subscriber, so "leaving" the game is not really an option since I can pick it back up wherever I may have left off at...but if it goes down in this way, I will be extremely dissapointed.

I know that what is driving this is a certain demographic in the Federation player base that does not care the slightest for Klingon content or the KDF faction -- all they care about is getting into that sexy Romulan War Bird as soon as they can...and so they view the KDF as an obstacle to that goal...and obstacle that they really do not see as an obstacle because they -- in their own minds at least -- do not recognize the KDF as a true faction in this game.

It is sad. And depressing.

snoggymack22

Back when this game was in beta I wanted to play a Romulan. That never happened. I was sad.

I play KDF though.

So at this point I find the Romulan faction idea rather entertaining. Because of my experience with the game's second faction.

I'm not sure what folks want, but I do know Cryptic won't deliver that. They didn't with the KDF.

doffingcomrade

I can tell you right now that even before STO even existed, Romulan factions in Trek games have always had somewhat more allure to the typical player than Klingons. So this reaction is no surprise.

As for "finishing" the KDF, what do we really want, at this point? More ships, certainly. We could always use more ships, there remain large holes in terms of layouts that we'd love to see. But it seems like a lot of people simply want TRIBBLE that isn't actually useful that they'll never really touch after they realize this. Levels 1 through 20? A hellishly long, pointlessly extended tutorial on the Fed side that has zero relevance to the actual game. It certainly won't produce much in the way of revenue. If you really want the KDF "finished", give us more freaking ships. And make it possible to pick that as your faction from the start. Forget the 1-20 nonsense. The option to skip it alone should be the selling point.

mimey2

I enjoy playing both sides of the game. I play all 3 classes on both sides, and yet I know that every time I log onto a KDF toon, I'm playing a half-finished faction, which is truly unfortunate.

It's even more unfortunate how many Fed players think it's such a 'paradise' when it really isn't.

I'd be all for a Romulan faction, as long as said faction doesn't step on the faces of the KDF. I mean, I await with very bated breath, my chance to start leveling 3 Romulan toons (one of each class of course), and begin flying around in my D'deridex and such other ships.

But if that meant still returning to a half-finished KDF faction everyday, it wouldn't really change anything, and if anything would make it worse because then the devs would have to be looking 3 groups to deal with. The massive Federation, the unfinished KDF, and whatever state the Romulan faction would be in.

doffingcomrade

Well, what about the KDF is really half-finished, anyway? The only thing we're "missing" is levels 1 through 20 and the associated mindless mission content for crappy rewards no one actually would want. Is this something we need? Every other piece of end-game content is present. Of course, more ships would always be nice. That's what it's really about. Ask yourself when the last time you did anything in that Fedside content other than hitting SKIP so you could get to the missions that don't pay you in suck...missions that have since been reduced to sucking like the rest, really. Remember when Assimilated was worth doing, on both sides? Remember how it REMAINED worth doing briefly on the KDF side, before it, too, was rendered worthless? The lack of attention given to the KDF side can be a good thing.

travelingmaster

doffingcomrade wrote: »

Well, what about the KDF is really half-finished, anyway? The only thing we're "missing" is levels 1 through 20 and the associated mindless mission content for crappy rewards no one actually would want. Is this something we need? Every other piece of end-game content is present. Of course, more ships would always be nice. That's what it's really about. Ask yourself when the last time you did anything in that Fedside content other than hitting SKIP so you could get to the missions that don't pay you in suck...missions that have since been reduced to sucking like the rest, really. Remember when Assimilated was worth doing, on both sides? Remember how it REMAINED worth doing briefly on the KDF side, before it, too, was rendered worthless? The lack of attention given to the KDF side can be a good thing.

Off the top of my head, it's the lvls 1-20 thing (and I doubt Cryptic would allow brand new players to just go straight for a lvl 25 KDF toon without 'unlocking' it first), some more ships to pick from at endgame (including a dedicated science vessel or two at endgame, something other than a carrier or BoP), and maybe have some of the universal/dual-faction content be KDF-perspective for once. Everything's written from the perspective of the Federation, with a paltry KDF wrapper thrown on for KDF players.

I wouldn't mind another storyline arc, to be honest, something written from the KDF perspective (like the Fek'lhri one). If they widen the faction back out to 1-50, we'll need 1-2 more anyways.

Cosmetically, we could use more costuming options. I personally don't care all that much, but others do. Insufficient flexibility in costuming has been a grievance for a long time.

We're definitely 'close' to completion. I wouldn't say the faction's half-finished, more like 80% complete. I feel the biggest reasons why we don't have as much playerbase as the Federation are: No option to play as KDF right from the start, and the red UI. The UI is a definite problem, it drives players away because they can't stand to look at the red UI for more than 1-2 hours at a time. Change the UI to a more pleasing color, or add another color scheme to pick from.

jellico1

Lets say the klingon faction get the ability to start at level 1 with 20 starter missions
15 new costumes
4 tier 1 and 2 ships

whatever else is missing so that faction is complete


Then all the bribes now in place to play klingon can be shared to the Fed faction , i play a klingon as well

more power to weapons
increased turn rate to cruisers
Dual heavy cannons
Doff missions with super payoffs
universal Boff layouts on selected escorts with a reduced hull
Consoles ( shared ) or equaled in power to plasmonic leach and aceton assimilator

So the factions are equal in power

theboilerman

I feel for the KDF, I really do. Having said that, I have no desire to play that faction, but I do support them being truly finished before a new faction is added.

A Romulan faction only mildly interests me either, the main draw there would be playable Hirogen.

Maybe in three more years I'll get my Cardassian faction.

rabuso

I search everywhere but i couldnt find some info from devs about this theme/topic!
So, will we be able to take another race or not in close future?
Any clue?

doffingcomrade

travelingmaster wrote: »

Off the top of my head, it's the lvls 1-20 thing (and I doubt Cryptic would allow brand new players to just go straight for a lvl 25 KDF toon without 'unlocking' it first)

And that's what's holding back popularity. Not "uncompleteness", but Cryptic's unwillingness to simply allow people to dive in. I have found that across all games, a LOT of people get very invested in their first character, even when it's a really awful one. By enforcing that the first character be a Fed character, you've essentially pushed most everyone's first loyalties to the Fed side.

The 1-20 thing? Meh. Who needs those levels anyway? I hate tutorials. You want your hand held, you go play Fed.

travelingmaster wrote: »

Everything's written from the perspective of the Federation, with a paltry KDF wrapper thrown on for KDF players.

Disagree. If anything, things are written from the perspective of the Klingons, with a paltry Fed wrapper thrown on top: Otherwise, why do we keep BLOWING EVERYTHING UP? In the course of one mission, you're going to destroy more ships and kill more people than any of the on-screen captains did in their entire careers. The wanton destruction and violence makes far more sense as a Klingon than as a Fed.

travelingmaster wrote: »

I wouldn't mind another storyline arc, to be honest, something written from the KDF perspective (like the Fek'lhri one). If they widen the faction back out to 1-50, we'll need 1-2 more anyways.

The Fek'lhri arc was easily one of both the best and the worst-written episodes. On one hand, it was distinctly Klingon in tone and perspective...but on the other hand, it was distinctly KLINGON in tone and perspective, less so KDF, which now consists of a large number of decidedly non-Klingons. If you were playing as a Klingon with a crew of Klingons, it was great...if you weren't, it was painful. Unlike the Federation, where Fedlings share a generally bland perspective on everything with only a few exceptions, the KDF is clearly non-homogenous, and to be a good *KDF* story as opposed to simply a *KLINGON* story, it needs to reflect that.

chalpen

All the faction needs is a tutorial and a purpose.
When we get a new fe series that will be good enough to fill up the levels.
The purpose could be a rewriting / touch up if the "path to...".
The only hard resource work will be the tutorial.

The only issue that will remain is the lack of customization. That is something that cryptic can monetize but would rather make Andorran flying caskets.

merryprankster2

Of course, looking back, none of the Star Trek movies/TV shows, were about Romulans, or Klingons, either.

snoggymack22

merryprankster2 wrote: »

Of course, looking back, none of the Star Trek movies/TV shows, were about Romulans, or Klingons, either.

There's quite a few episodes about klingons.

misterde3

merryprankster2 wrote: »

Of course, looking back, none of the Star Trek movies/TV shows, were about Romulans, or Klingons, either.

This isn't a TV show, this is a computer game.
And if you look at the histoy of Star Trek computer games, you'll find several that didn't even struggle when it came to providing a well-rounded pool of ships or storytelling beyond the Federation.
In fact there are even some that don't actually focus on the Federation at all.
And most of those were restricted in terms of the canon material they were allowed to use.
"Klingon Academy" was restricted to the Original Series and the first 6 movies.
"Star Trek: Klingon" was entirly restricted to the TNG and DS9 material for legal reasons.
Yet they provided compelling and immersive story.
They were also restricted to either space (Klingon Academy) or ground (Klingon Honor Guard), this game can easily do both.
So that the shows or movies were mostly about the Federation is nothing more than an incredibly lame and transparent excuse when it comes to this game.

shpoks

All KDF players agree that we should have more genuine content, costume options and the ability to create a KDF char. right off the start of the game. It is a constant.

But, I say, let the Romulans come. My Bortasqu' has been acking to blow up Romulan Warbirds for quite some time. :cool:

bitemepwe

Its been depressing going on three years now.
Pay no attention to the members of the Human Only club.

We KDF fans have been diligent and we need to continue to be so regardless if the spoiled majority doesnt want to share the game designed to represent all of Star Trek, not just the federation.

mimey2

bitemepwe wrote: »

Its been depressing going on three years now.
Pay no attention to the members of the Human Only club.

Not to be rude, Roach, but the words that the honorable Azetbur said were, 'Homo-sapiens only club'. :P

Anyways, one major thing I feel is that a good majority of these KDF-hating Feds seem to not get, is that the KDF is for some reason wanting 'special treatment' or whatever, and take ALL of Cryptic's attention away from the Fed side.

Not true in the slightest. KDF doesn't want special treatment, it wants EQUAL treatment. Or at least a lot closer to equal than we have now. We just want KDF-centric missions of our own, rough KDF-equivalents to some of the newer Fed ships, and other such things.

Once the KDF is treated equally to the Fed side, to me that is what I will consider the faction to be finished, whether or not there is 1-20 (I don't consider that a major issue, and fully expect the Romulan faction to have that happen as well).

Equality is the real thing we want more than anything else, once that is given, and stays given, then most of these complaints will vanish very quickly.

qjunior

Blehhh, quoted the wrong person.

qjunior

shpoks wrote: »

All KDF players agree that we should have more genuine content, costume options and the ability to create a KDF char. right off the start of the game. It is a constant.

But, I say, let the Romulans come. My Bortasqu' has been acking to blow up Romulan Warbirds for quite some time. :cool:

Those Warbirds might actually not fly circles around you while laughing. :P

jnohd

I know about 25% of our Fleet's most active membership will jump faction when/if a Romulan faction is released. This saddens me as well, and I've been barking mad about the possibility of a 3rd faction since the first poll about it, with the same warning the OP mentions: The KDF faction cannot afford the attrition we would have from the draw of a Rom Faction, the Feds can.

I stand by my original take on it: Rekindle the ToS Klingon/Romulan alliance. Separate factions, separate missions, separate groups, but shared queues, and sharing the Federation as an opponent. Allow for mixed Fleets, and mixed missions after some level (10 or so would be my suggestion for the end of a unique mission line).

There are people who swear up and down the Klingons and Romulans would never side with each other, but frankly, its happened before (the Klingons got their access to cloaking from this former Alliance, did they not?) and under the current circumstances with a rift in the Romulan Empire, and Sela under the influence of the Iconians and Undine infiltration of the Romulan government and military (as evidenced by the Fed mission where you unknowingly insert one into the Romulan military), the New Romulus groups *should* be the beginnings of a new Redside faction.

Adding a "Purple" faction to the current mix will simply erode us unnecessarily.

That and I'm not looking forward to being forced to create a sister Fleet named "Birdbath and Beyond"

:P

shpoks

qjunior wrote: »

Those Warbirds might actually not fly circles around you while laughing. :P

Honestly, the D'Deridex if they make one should have turn rate of 4. If they want to make it a bit more playable they'll have to give it a 6, but then bump the turn rate of all other ships in game by +2. Nowhere in hell should that thing have the same or better manuverability as a Galaxy for example.

snoggymack22

shpoks wrote: »

Honestly, the D'Deridex if they make one should have turn rate of 4.

As a lockbox ship the D'Deridex is going to be a heavily armed cruiser with a turn rate of 12, 5 fore weapons, 3 aft, Sensor Analysis, and a battle cloak. Oh and 10 consoles.

Why? Cause ... lockbox!

bitemepwe

mimey2 wrote: »

Not to be rude, Roach, but the words that the honorable Azetbur said were, 'Homo-sapiens only club'. :P

Anyways, one major thing I feel is that a good majority of these KDF-hating Feds seem to not get, is that the KDF is for some reason wanting 'special treatment' or whatever, and take ALL of Cryptic's attention away from the Fed side.

Not true in the slightest. KDF doesn't want special treatment, it wants EQUAL treatment. Or at least a lot closer to equal than we have now. We just want KDF-centric missions of our own, rough KDF-equivalents to some of the newer Fed ships, and other such things.

Once the KDF is treated equally to the Fed side, to me that is what I will consider the faction to be finished, whether or not there is 1-20 (I don't consider that a major issue, and fully expect the Romulan faction to have that happen as well).

Equality is the real thing we want more than anything else, once that is given, and stays given, then most of these complaints will vanish very quickly.

From your text to the Developers eyes. You speak truth.

shpoks

snoggymack22 wrote: »

As a lockbox ship the D'Deridex is going to be a heavily armed cruiser with a turn rate of 12, 5 fore weapons, 3 aft, Sensor Analysis, and a battle cloak. Oh and 10 consoles.

Why? Cause ... lockbox!

The D'deridex won't be a lockbox ship. I'm not saying it would be free, but it won't be a lockbox one. The devs. said it over and over again multiple times that they're holding the Romulan ships for a Romulan faction, whenever it comes.
They are aware that a Romulan faction can bring much more revenue that a lockbox release. If this was not the case, we'd already have the Romulan lockbox by now as I suspect it would be the most sought after lockbox that would bring much more cash than any other lockbox they release.

bitemepwe

jnohd wrote: »

I know about 25% of our Fleet's most active membership will jump faction when/if a Romulan faction is released. This saddens me as well, and I've been barking mad about the possibility of a 3rd faction since the first poll about it, with the same warning the OP mentions: The KDF faction cannot afford the attrition we would have from the draw of a Rom Faction, the Feds can.

I stand by my original take on it: Rekindle the ToS Klingon/Romulan alliance. Separate factions, separate missions, separate groups, but shared queues, and sharing the Federation as an opponent. Allow for mixed Fleets, and mixed missions after some level (10 or so would be my suggestion for the end of a unique mission line).

There are people who swear up and down the Klingons and Romulans would never side with each other, but frankly, its happened before (the Klingons got their access to cloaking from this former Alliance, did they not?) and under the current circumstances with a rift in the Romulan Empire, and Sela under the influence of the Iconians and Undine infiltration of the Romulan government and military (as evidenced by the Fed mission where you unknowingly insert one into the Romulan military), the New Romulus groups *should* be the beginnings of a new Redside faction.

Adding a "Purple" faction to the current mix will simply erode us unnecessarily.

That and I'm not looking forward to being forced to create a sister Fleet named "Birdbath and Beyond"

:P

Considering how easy it was to cheat that poll and pad the numbers Im surprised it is used as justification by the fans.
Hell, I posted as bitemepwe and then quoted my on post as another player in the same thread in under 5 minutes to show how easy it was to cheat that poll.

I say bring the RSE faction but not at the expense of the KDF which has been waiting for a lng time to be completed.

misterde3

I've got a feeling we don't have that much to worry about.
I believe when the Romulans come out, there will be a much larger portion of the playerbase migrating from the Federation than the KDF.
Simply because those who play KDF seem to actually want to play KDF while a whole bunch of people are just playing Fed because they don't have what they want available.

qjunior

misterde3 wrote: »

I've got a feeling we don't have that much to worry about.
I believe when the Romulans come out, there will be a much larger portion of the playerbase migrating from the Federation than the KDF.
Simply because those who play KDF seem to actually want to play KDF while a whole bunch of people are just playing Fed because they don't have what they want available.

For me it's worse. I want to play ALL factions..... so many things to do and so little time. :eek::D

oldkhemaraa

I quite agree that the Fed faction is going to get hit HARD when the rom faction appears. The vast majority of players in the KDF faction want to play KDF, very nearly exculsivly (I have 9 toons, 3 fed.. mostly there to check out the new Fed toys, and for roleplaying and socializing)Any new faction are going to cause a drawdown in Fed faction numbers.

Personally I suspect the real reason of Trek gamer hatred of the KDF from the fed side is just how badly time and time again the Klingons kicked the snot out of federation led forces in the play of the Starfleet Command series of games (regularly outnumbered by the fed faction by more then 4 to 1 and we STILL kicked thier butt)

Mostly I want equal treatment also for my chosen faction. The KDF tutorial, along with the 1-20 content and some storyline filler in the 20-50 zone would go a long way toward bringing some faction balance. Adding other factions will also effect this by causing more draw down on Fed side.

I'll keep waving the flag on the tutorial etc because to back out of it now would just look stupid and flaky. Though there are other good reasons to insist that it happen, and that Cryptic get the idea that adding any additional factions in such a partial state is a "Very Bad Idea" is likely the most important of them. I am a die hard KDF player and have been since SFC, and Klingon Academy. But I saw with the play of Starfleet Command that there are players that WILL insist on wanting to play any other faction other then the Federation. (can't say I blame them either...in a non fed faction you can make your own addition to Trek history.. the fed story is pretty much locked down.. If I wanted to follow a script I would have become an actor!)

so I wonder what interesting thing we get tossed at us this week?


Khemaraa sends

crusty8mac

The only way I'd play a Romulan would be if they had really cool ships. Otherwise, I'm not interested in wearing those bad haircuts.

I've got money that says - should there ever actually be a Romulan faction - the number of players won't be significantly different than those of the KDF.

And then I'll chuckle at the rage and tears.

skyranger1414

doffingcomrade wrote: »

And that's what's holding back popularity. Not "uncompleteness", but Cryptic's unwillingness to simply allow people to dive in.

That's purely wishful thinking, the KDF (and any hypothetical Romulan factions) will never be as popular as the Federation. This is not a bad thing, nor does it reflect poorly on the other less popular factions. Its just a result of the way Star Trek is.

That said, I'm baffled but at the same time relieved they haven't added more ships to the KDF.

Baffled because it can't be that difficult, heck,they could sell slightly cheaper new ships using the pre-existing ship costumes with new layouts and people would accept it since its established in canon that the KDF tends to keep the external look of their ships constant.

Relieved because adding more ships would really bring parity to the factions (an extra 20 low levels would be more of a hindrance, ask any fed player...). If the factions were equal I'm 100% sure all the little bribes to play KDF (mostly based around Dil and EC) would be taken away rather than added the blue side. Since my KDF alts have become hard working farmers in this post S6 and S7 world I'd hate to loose my easy Dil! There was once a time my KDF tac would stomp all over the Borg in her Vo'Quv or Guramba.... those days are just gone. The grinds mean I can only really have one main supported by several farmers .

But...OP, do not feel bad about people clamoring for a Romulan faction and prophetising the end of the KDF. There is just no way that Cryptic can release anything as good as what they are fooling themselves into believing is being released. Even with all the added developers (a good chunk of whom are probably over a NWO in a mad dash to get that released) Cryptic has a history of under delivering.