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Kickstarter?
cptrichardson12
Member Posts: 143 Arc User
I know that Dan has talked about using Kickstarter to help fund improvements to the game in areas that would otherwise be left alone.
You know what? I want to call him out on it, and maybe get some improvements that would silence certain sectors of the playerbase.
I want a kickstarter to fund the overtime needed for however long it would take for Jamjams to produce a 2409 skin for the Excelsior, thus producing a 'modern' hull that no longer feels so anachronistic and out of date. Stretch goals could include a sovereign or galaxy era skin.
You suggested it, Dan. I want you to actually do it, now.
You know what? I want to call him out on it, and maybe get some improvements that would silence certain sectors of the playerbase.
I want a kickstarter to fund the overtime needed for however long it would take for Jamjams to produce a 2409 skin for the Excelsior, thus producing a 'modern' hull that no longer feels so anachronistic and out of date. Stretch goals could include a sovereign or galaxy era skin.
You suggested it, Dan. I want you to actually do it, now.
Post edited by cptrichardson12 on
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Yeah, I don't see a PvP kickstart going.
The idea behind using a Kickstarter to fuel a ship model is that it's comparatively cheap, it'll have a nice stabilizing effect on the people sceaming about how an 'excelsior' (note that the ship is not actually labeled as such in the C-store or in-game class, just by the only design we have for it) is outflying a galaxy.
Say, call the hypothetical 2409 refit the Yorktown or Ranger class, but it's tied to the Fleet shipyard version at first, other than for a select few people who meet a contribution goal in the kickstart project, say $10.
This way Cryptic will earn money from people seeking out the super awesome new skin of the Excelsior.
Say, set the whole project at how much JamJam's salary is for 2 months (is that how long it would take to produce?), with a stretch goal at double that for a sovereign-era skin for the ship, and double again for an Ambassador era skin. (and one final stretch for a TOS era replica skin?)
I don't know the actual numbers, just rattling off ideas. The 2409 skin would remain high end, but the other skins would get unlocked with the purchase of either the Commander level ship, or the RA level ship.
Sound good? It gets us what WE want, and it does so in a way that is profitable for Cryptic, or at least break even.
Alternatively: $15,000 for 2409 skin, $30,000 for Sovereign era skin stretch goal, $45,000 for Ambassador era stretch goal, and $70k-$100k for TOS era stretch goal.
Costumes guaranteed unlocked through the Fleet version, with contributors who donate $10 dollars getting the skins on the RA or Cmdr. version. Higher contributions could maybe earn exclusive doffs you redeem with a code or something.
Maybe Honda could do a kickstarter to make a flying car!
Your sarcasm is missing the point.
This is for them to take time to do something that's nice, and that would otherwise not get done because 'there is no money in it'. This way they can fund the cost of designing the ship or not even bother with it if it's not popular.
One of the little detail things.
And if the Excelsior rebuild project works, that means the Empire could see some brand new ships, too. (especially if it's really popular). Like say, a K'vort?
My point is that if it will make cryptic money and is easy, they will jump on it.
Hard things that don't make them money they will make every excuse in the book (but wouldn't you rather have ....).
PWE/Cryptic has enough money to develop new content, they just don't want to risk investing a few thousand bucks on something that may not turn out to be profitable. Running a business is about taking risks; if they're unwilling to take them they should just quit.
Well, somehow I don't think they'll earn the million dollars it'll cost for a PvP overhaul. I'm suggesting something quick, simple, but would otherwise go undone because HEY! They tried skin packs in one way before, and dropped that method because it wasn't really profitable. This way they'll at least break even so we can have SOME kind of a nice thing, while the rest of the staff works on.... whatever it is they're supposedly doing.
And Drakron? Please grow up and stop throwing a hissy fit.
Isn't that what ME and Vista were?
Also, given the 5% fee Kickstarter collects and 5% fee Amazon payments collects, we're not LITERALLY talking about a Kickstarter but more likely a sortof preorder system with a timetable and refunds if the target isn't met. And rewards most likely for advanced purchase and maybe even a "pay whatever you feel like" system.
So more like Mattel's Castle Grayskull preorder program.
For example: They setup the goal. It has to make $5000 to get the ship made and have a video outlining the work involved. You have to put down at least $15 to get the ship but there's a reward for any level of contribution. 30 day timer. (Trust me, longer is not worth it.) If they hit the goal, everyone who backed gets a reward (think: a tribble or small costume unlock). Everyone who put down $15+ gets the ship. When it releases, it goes up for 2500 ZEN.
If it doesn't hit the goal, it doesn't get made. But it won't be an actual Kickstarter because anybody with their own CC processing service and audience in one place is better off to do that.
The ONLY way an actual Kickstarter would make sense is if it was designed to promote the game to people who aren't current players (this happens) and it had a big goal that would appeal to non-players like getting Shatner to appear as Kirk.
First of all, like I say, they'll probably just borrow some Kickstarter aspects for a preorder system, the way some toy and gaming companies are doing. If the target audience is STO players, the cost of a KS campaign offsite makes no sense.
However, Cryptic is not a big business. PWE is not impossibly big. Kickstarter is being used by comics professionals, known game studios (including the Wing Commander MMO), and known artists like Amanda Palmer. It's not purely a begging system. It's alternative finance. (And a Star Trek fan series was run through there by Tim Russ and Walter Koenig.)
The big thing is that it makes no sense for Cryptic to do an ACTUAL Kickstarter unless they have a goal for a closed ended project (which could well be an FE series or ship). But realistically, the goal needs to be something outside the ballpark of what you'd see on the C-Store and appeal to non-current players or else they';d be better off with a Kickstarter-LIKE in-house preorder system.
If it was getting Shatner as Kirk or a complete TNG reunion, they should do with an ACTUAL Kickstarter and all the headaches that would entail working with CBS and PWE on it.
If it's a snazzy Klingon T5 ship, really, they just need a preorder system (which gets refunded if the goal isn't hit) or an item of the month club the way niche toy collectible companies do it. (Ie. join the ship of the month club for $99 every six months and get a new T5 ship every month, taken from a mix of new ships, reworked ships, and one club exclusive sign-on bonus. A $175 value!)
Instead of monetising all individual items Cryptic should consider the overall picture and how adding the things people want will lead to more money spent to go Gold etc.
The entire idea is ridiculous, it does astound me that so many people are willing to throw any amount of money at such pointless things - especially these days when money isn't exactly in abundance. I'm sorry but $15,000 is a crazy amount of money for a mere ship skin.
This is of course just my opinion, but I do have a more acceptable reason.
Such a thing would lead the game to suffer in the long term, the devs have a schedule of work that balances z store or lock box items with new season content and bug fixing. Piling kick starter projects on top of it would put everything else back since a dev only has so many hours in a day. If they had several of these running more important areas of the game development would be put on hold for a long time.
So we're flying through Klingon Scout Force for the 10,000,000th time...but it's all good, look at my shiny new ship skin, isn't it cool!
Yeah...no thanks.
On the order of:
Complete TOS expansion, complete TNG cast, surviving TOS cast, a half dozen celebrity guest stars, fully voicing the game, etc.
And you need big rewards. And they need to be participatory. Like having NPCs or ships named after you, getting a recording session to voice a character, getting your plot developed into an episode, etc.
The idea is NOT one person paying $15k for a ship skin. The idea is that they demonstrate the $15k worth of labor needed for that ship in their pitch and people fund it with contributions as little as $1 even if $1 doesn't get them the ship.
It'd be more like this: Instead of making whatever ship they think would sell, they'd rely on the kickstarter to tell them what ships people want more, and then make them. Literally voting with your wallet. They get paid and the majority gets the ship they want. It's a win/win.
Frankly, I can't see how this is any worse than how they do it now
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Some people seem to think Kickstarter is panhandling or is only for small projects/companies/artists.
Again, my big thing here is that Cryptic needs to do this in-house if it is a small goal. Among other things, failing at a small goal would be AWFUL PR unless they do it in-house and tailor it as a preorder system like Mattel does.
If they go to an actual site like Kickstarter or Indiegogo, they need a pitch and a one minute video and a concept that is really so ambitious that people reasonably see it as something so ambitious that failure wouldn't be a black eye.
Except this wouldn't be a seperate ship. This would be a skin for an EXISTING ship, which would otherwise not get made because 'there is no profit in it'. It would be about them raising money to recoup the development time, whatever it is, for JamJams to model and produce a 2409 skin for the Excelsior class and install it into the game.
They took the original ship skins off the C-store because they weren't earning any money. If we tried to go that way, it would just never get done.
This isn't a big thing that deserves all of Cryptic's attention. This is a small, cosmetic thing that's nice to have, but not game make or break by itself.
THAT is the idea.
Let's say Cryptic actually does get a mess of money via Kickstarter for a specific project. What happens then? Who does the actual development? If it's Cryptic devs, that begs the question of why they're not doing it anyway. If it's anyone else, are we talking new developers or temporary contracts?
In either of the latter cases, we're talking about people who have to be trained sufficiently on Cryptic's engine to be able to do the work, thus adding a significant time element. If permanent employees, you're looking at a relatively high long-term expense per head, and thus a limited number of people, adding more to the time element (not to mention figuring out what to do with them when the job's done). If contracts, you're risking a rush job with poor quality and integration, and with little accountability - not to mention those contractees now have proprietary info concerning the Cryptic engine.
It might work if Cryptic sets up a subsidiary studio dedicated to Kickstarter-funded side projects, but I don't know how sustainable that would actually be. Besides, if they went this route, they'd probably be better off going with stoleviathan99's proposed pre-order system instead.
Anyway, just thinking out loud (in as much as you can think out loud while typing). Just doesn't seem feasible or reasonable.
Even if they did faction neutral mission content /adventure zone preorder.
But only if, when released, they would charge for it.
But cryptic doesnt feel that charging for content makes sence.
But lots of content has an end game item at the end and they LOVE to charge for end game ships.
i don't understand the model.
Except not that big. MAYBE one a month, provide the previous month's wasn't crazy big. Nothing that would go into a 'kickstarter' or however this would work would be something that would go into a C-store item. And nothing 'big'. Little touches that got overlooked in initial development, things that a team of 10 people at most could knock out in a month.
Say, the hypothetical skin. Who all would it take? JamJams for modeling, someone (Thomas?) for initial concept, and a programmer/QA guy to hook it to the ship ingame and make certain it works.
That's the kind of 'content' I'm suggesting.
At the MOST, say a medium-length KDF mission (since they can't produce KDF content because there aren't enough players for it, and there aren't enough players for KDF content because there isn't enough KDF content).
You're suggesting making it a big, major thing. Which would end up being a bad thing, and result in a mess. Keep it small, the little touches that can be knocked out by JamJams spending a few hours after for a week or three, or by Borticus playing around with the Doff system for a few hours to create a new skill, or something else.
Well, in that case, I'd ask more for a home server kit, and a patch set up so that when one day in the future (a long time from now) we could create our own servers we can support.
. So everything in the fame is awesome? Nothing? Wow
Hence the whole 'you don't have to pay for this, but even if you don't, you still can benefit somehow'.
All that money is going into something nebulous surrounding the rommies, likely finishing the klinks and developing a full romulan faction. We don't know.
But this is for things that Cryptic wouldn't develop any other way because it wouldn't make them money.
That is kinda what I meant... Probably my lack of ability to express myself in english...
...for a Kickstarter (or similar setup)? I'm sure I'm missing something, then - if you're going to use current employees for a short-term project, how does Kickstarter-like funding help? There's an opportunity cost in using already-existing resources that such funding just wouldn't cover.