When I hear 'what could we do to add more Star Trekky exploration into our game', my mind immediately goes to 'throw more negative space wedgies at players.' Not sure what a negative space wedgie is? Here ya go -> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NegativeSpaceWedgie
How to translate those sorts of ideas into interactive, interesting game play? That I'm less sure about.
When I hear 'what could we do to add more Star Trekky exploration into our game', my mind immediately goes to 'throw more negative space wedgies at players.' Not sure what a negative space wedgie is? Here ya go -> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NegativeSpaceWedgie
How to translate those sorts of ideas into interactive, interesting game play? That I'm less sure about.
I don't think it really matters, to be honest.
The lack of any kind of actual 'exploration' has been lamented, complained about, creatively criticized and suggested since before (yes, before) launch.
There has been talk of a reworking of exploration since people (me included) started talking about how horribly repetitive and UN-explorative "exploration" mission were back in Beta over 3 years ago.
Guys, the game is what it is. I'd love to see a lot of things revamped (developer, for a start), but I have no faith it's going to ever happen.
When I hear 'what could we do to add more Star Trekky exploration into our game', my mind immediately goes to 'throw more negative space wedgies at players.' Not sure what a negative space wedgie is? Here ya go -> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NegativeSpaceWedgie
How to translate those sorts of ideas into interactive, interesting game play? That I'm less sure about.
Heh. 'Negative space wedgies'.
Well, yeah. 'Enemy of the Week' sort of stuff. That is what the bulk of Trek episodes revolved around after all. Nothing to say they couldn't try something bigger from time to time of course; but generally, yeah, 'negative space wedgies'.
The lack of any kind of actual 'exploration' has been lamented, complained about, creatively criticized and suggested since before (yes, before) launch.
There has been talk of a reworking of exploration since people (me included) started talking about how horribly repetitive and UN-explorative "exploration" mission were back in Beta over 3 years ago.
Guys, the game is what it is. I'd love to see a lot of things revamped (developer, for a start), but I have no faith it's going to ever happen.
Thankfully, 'faith' is not required here; just dreams and wishes. People are welcome to add 'but I don't expect it to ever happen' to their posts should they feel it necessary. :P
Personally, I find coming up with ideas to be fun.
Speaking of... This ended getting its own thread, but I came up with it for this one; so I guess it deserves a link at least - Adding more gameplay to our gameplay.
It didn't really catch on; but then, my threads usually don't (next one is going in general discussion I swear...).
Random terrain. Now, I know that maps made with the Genesis system can have their faults (buildings floating over big holes in the ground, enemies dropping through the floor, buried objectives, and so on); however, something like a simple survey mission wouldn't necessarily need any of that stuff. If we accept that the ability to 'boldly go where no one has gone before' is one of the goals of exploration, then having places that are literally brand new furthers that goal.
Sure, someone might get stuck down a hole, but that's just one of the perils of exploring; at least they can beam themselves out of it (maybe include a 'site to site transport to beam in point' option, just in case).
If there are no physical objectives, then those objectives can't be made unreachable. Just wandering around the map taking sensor readings, to see what turns up, would be a fairly safe activity (to clarify: click the scan button at any random point, and a list of nearby stuff is presented; anything that might be of value or interest is simply present in the scan results of a given area, rather than being an actual game object).
There could be wild critters serving as enemies on some of these maps to mix things up a little (just random: are there critters? yes/no, if 'yes' are they hostile? yes/no); but since they wouldn't be objectives, it wouldn't really matter if any of them got stuck somewhere.
---EDIT---
To clarify: this would just be one thing among many, rather like the 'Aid the Planet' missions; I'm not suggesting that all exploration should be like this.
I dunno about random terrain. There's a fine balance between realism and entertainment. Getting stuck in holes, even if you can beam yourself out, doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I do like the critters idea, though.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Take a page out of Mass Effect 1's book, and introduce some large open ground maps that can be explored by vehicle (and, obviously, introduce ground vehicles). These maps need not be as busy(? detailed? cluttered?) as existing ground maps; in fact, for the sake of decent driving conditions, probably should not be (don't need my buggy stuck down a ravine, or up a tree).
If the driving were done well, you might get people heading out into the unknown just so they can try to find some decent dunes to race around on (or use as ramps for stunts). :cool:
The game could really do with something like this; I can't honestly say I've ever felt like I was really exploring on the ground. I was too boxed in, too directed, and from a decent vantage point, could usually see everywhere it is possible to go.
---EDIT---
It occurs to me that this could be a way for Cryptic to use exploration to make a little extra money. Say there was one free vehicle that was little more than a way of getting around a bit faster (like the Argo from Nemesis), and then a whole bunch of more exciting vehicles in the z-store. Hover vehicles, armoured vehicles, vehicles that are faster, or have turbos, or jump boosters, etc. Seems like Champions is doing that; so why not STO?
If combined with Suggestion 4, it could lead to fleets forming their own racing leagues or something; adding incentive to getting better vehicles.
Yes! I was just thinking the other day we should have ground maps that would allow us to use an Argo type vehicle. Plus, I like that last thought there about racing leagues. Perhaps a planet with a race track. A new form of PvP!
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I know, I shouldn't be bumping my own thread; but there's no point me adding something in an edit if nobody is going to see it now is there?
Suggestion 6
The Nemesis system from Cryptic's other MMO Champions, for those who don't know, is a feature that allows you to create your own arch-enemys. Something like that could be adapted for STO.
I don't suggest we actually be able to make our own enemies (that would be weird); but suppose a nemesis could be generated by the system. More accurately, a recurring NPC who might show up whenever you enter his/her native region (so, potentially, one such character for each exploration zone); this NPC might be an enemy or ally, depending on the nature of your early encounters.
I really like this! No, we totally should be able to make our own enemy: name, look, everything. Our own personal Tomalok or Gul Dukat. I love it! The Nemesis can be from an established race/faction in-game or use the Alien option to create a unique enemy. As you said, Champions already has this system established, surely it can be ported to STO.
This one is probably a little less reasonable, but I think it still needs said: more 'generic' ships. All of the aliens I encounter in exploration zones, that don't belong to a major faction, fly exactly the same ships. This gets old pretty quickly.
I would suggest making customizable 'neutral' ships, not unlike players ships; make a few basic frames, and a bunch of parts to hang off them. The parts don't all need to be completely unique, slightly modified parts off of existing ships would probably do for some of it. Add some 'alien' hull materials, maybe make deflector and nacelle glowy separate variables for the sake of variety; that sort of thing.
In keeping with my earlier suggestions, I would suggest that the game remember what a particular species was flying when they were encountered by the player, for the sake of consistency; some sort of code attached to the player character. Player encountered species x, with ship configuration 2, components 7 1 4 6, skin 3, etc. So it knows what to put that species in if the player runs into them again.
Agree with this as well, and it could also fall under the Nemesis option, especially if you've chosen to create an Alien race as a Nemesis.
Expanding on the idea behind Suggestion 7, it'd be nice if the lesser powers of the galaxy weren't all using the same 'off the shelf' gear as the major factions. I have no idea if this is possible in STO, but suppose it were possible to assemble unique weapons from an assortment of common parts.
Say, for example, there were 10 barrels, 10 shoulder stocks, 10 scopes, and so on, and these components could be thrown together any which way to produce all new weapons. I suppose there could be corresponding parts for each weapon type, so that designing a rifle would also design an assault weapon and a pistol to match. Maybe with a few optional, decorative, bits a pieces to help spread the material out a little. Maybe a variety of different skins that can be applied to them too.
It might be a good bit of work to pull off; but once it were done, new sets of weapons could be assembled in minutes, making giving each race a unique look a simple (and quick) matter.
A selection of armour like tailor options for them would help too; the addition of body armour sections, or tactical gear, could make most costume choices look a bit more martial. If it worked, it would make it easier to assemble an outfit that looked like a military uniform, so they don't have to look so same-y.
Again, agreed, and could also fall under the Nemesis option. In addition to different looks of equipment, you could determine their energy types, what types of weapons this new enemy uses.
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I would love to be able to make exploration missions in the Foundry, which then come up at random in Exploration Clusters. I know some people don't like Foundry missions, so there could be a setting where they can "disable" Foundry missions in Exploration Clusters and just play the randomly-generated ones like the ones suggested here.
This could definitely work and solve the problem of Cryptic not having the time to create all of this new Exploration content. Of course, they'd have to be approved by Cryptic and then specially coded to trigger on an Exploration map, so that we don't get missions that make no sense popping up wherever we happen to be. They would also have to have minimum and maximum time limits on these missions. I've heard some Foundry missions are ridiculously long.
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Hmm, I wonder if they could create proper exploration instances; these would be huge areas full of randomly generated content (at the time of their creation), representing just a single sector of an entire unexplored expanse or nebula.
Players work together (or just sporadically) slowly map out the area and uncover every planet and random encounter in the instance. Once the instance has been significantly explored a new one is created.
So when you enter say the Delta Volanis Cluster, you would be given a grid of sectors to choose from, each displaying the percentage they've been explored by. Generally you will pick ones that haven't been fully explored, but you may go back to some in order to follow-up missions. These would need to be time limited so that instances can eventually be deleted to make way for new ones.
This might give a better sense of actual exploration as you go into a sector that others have started exploring, and starting finding new stuff of your own to map and interact with. It might be nice to see some proper phenomenon mapping/analysis mini-games mixed in, not the "fly to position X and hit scan" but trying to different types of analysis in a science lab on your ship to determine what a nebula is comprised of, could also have some good potential for random scenarios such as contamination on your ship, long dormant Iconian virus etc.
So you're thinking persistent (for a time) randomly generated zones, rather than ones made fresh every time you go in? Intriguing. I could get behind an idea like that; though I'd prefer it if there were a way to hid the presence of other players I wasn't teamed up with. I'm a little tired of the crowds in the exploration zones; makes things feel too busy to be unexplored space.
Perhaps some could work like current PvE missions, where when you enter the Exploration Sector, you're teamed with 4 other Captains. Together you chart the sector, which starts out as a blacked out map that opens up as you explore. Random enemy encounters could occur that would require your team to defeat. Various anomolies could be scanned. These encounters could occur in space and/or ground. As suggested in another post, there could be a percentage indicator showing how much of the sector has been explored with the mission ending when 100% has been explored. This would be an extended encounter mission, much like Tau Dewa Sector Patrol except the map would be blank until it was opened up by actual exploration. And it could replace the 3 system requirement for Explore Strange New Worlds since it would be an extended mission.
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On another forum, on a discussion of STO's problems, someone mentioned Foundry missions as a replacement for exploration. This was my reply:
Most Foundry missions are awful, so I don't see that as an implementable solution.
One thing I think might be neat would be player-interactive versions of the colony chains. So, you'd go through a series of missions, beginning with a system survey, then a planet survey, encounter with random native element, colony site survey, protect colonists from outside threat, chain complete.
This could be chock full of random elements. The planets could vary from Ice Planet to Vasquez Rocks. The native threat could be a virus, a plant, Space Gorillas, or the weather. If you negotiate with the outside threat, the next mission could be peaceful; if you fight it, the next mission would be a bigger battle.
If there are a hundred or more random elements for each mission, and if your interactions set the tone of the next link in the chain, it could be a while before this got old.
*break*
And while I'm having ideas for exploration, I'd also like to see first contact missions that feel real. This could be done as a chain of missions like the colony chain above, with each step in the first contact process (discovery, surveillance, high-level contact, public contact, conflict, resolution) as its own mission full of random elements, with each mission outcome affecting the tone of the following mission.
I really think this is do-able, if Cryptic puts some resources into it.
Brilliant!
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I really like this! No, we totally should be able to make our own enemy: name, look, everything. Our own personal Tomalok or Gul Dukat. I love it! The Nemesis can be from an established race/faction in-game or use the Alien option to create a unique enemy. As you said, Champions already has this system established, surely it can be ported to STO.
Agree with this as well, and it could also fall under the Nemesis option, especially if you've chosen to create an Alien race as a Nemesis.
Again, agreed, and could also fall under the Nemesis option. In addition to different looks of equipment, you could determine their energy types, what types of weapons this new enemy uses.
Oh, I could totally get behind the idea of having a real Nemesis System in STO; I just consider it to be a separate issue from exploration (after all, we wouldn't really be 'discovering' our brand new mortal enemies if we made them ourselves). I thought it should be a little more random when it comes to the whole seeking out new life and new civilizations (and seriously ticking them off) thing. But yeah, my own personal Gul Dukat would be pretty cool. :cool:
Oh, I could totally get behind the idea of having a real Nemesis System in STO; I just consider it to be a separate issue from exploration (after all, we wouldn't really be 'discovering' our brand new mortal enemies if we made them ourselves). I thought it should be a little more random when it comes to the whole seeking out new life and new civilizations (and seriously ticking them off) thing. But yeah, my own personal Gul Dukat would be pretty cool. :cool:
^ This idea might need its own thread.
I had an epiphany while reading this thread, though, about an exploration idea. I've gotta go type up these ideas while they're coming. Keep an eye out. This should be good.
BEWARE: Wall of Text on its way!
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Buildings (or 'urban') as a terrain type. Take 'ancient ruins' for example: in STO these would generally be represented by some stone columns, or maybe an obelisk. Why are there no real ruins?
Anyone who has played Mass Effect 3 will remember travelling through the ancient ruins on Tuchanka; now that was exploring. Didn't even have a choice of directions; just following the path, and occasionally stopping to look at a mural, or have a fight. It still really felt like exploration though; and was very impressive to look at.
I realise, of course, that BioWare probably put a great deal of time and effort into those ruins; I certainly don't expect that level of detail for exploration missions. Still, it occurs to me that all exploration ground zones are put together in more or less the same way; dirt/sand, with rocks/plants/buildings sitting on it. We have no terrain that is made of architecture in the exploration zones. We just have little bits of architecture sitting on the terrain (often 'wilderness' terrain, with nothing but a few dirt tracks joining scattered pre-fab buildings together).
I know, I shouldn't be bumping my own thread; but there's no point me adding something in an edit if nobody is going to see it now is there?
Suggestion 6
The Nemesis system from Cryptic's other MMO Champions, for those who don't know, is a feature that allows you to create your own arch-enemys. Something like that could be adapted for STO.
I don't suggest we actually be able to make our own enemies (that would be weird); but suppose a nemesis could be generated by the system. More accurately, a recurring NPC who might show up whenever you enter his/her native region (so, potentially, one such character for each exploration zone); this NPC might be an enemy or ally, depending on the nature of your early encounters.
So, if you first run into this NPC in a combat mission (and there are no diplomatic options available), chances are he or she is going to be an enemy; on the other hand, if this NPC's first appearance is is in the dialogue window of one of those 'deliver 10 seismic stabilizer' (or whatever) missions, chances are they will be an ally, and might show up to help you out from time to time.
Ideally, there should be ways for their attitude towards you to change over time; an enemy might gradually come to respect you, or an ally might become disillusioned with your methods.
This could create the sense that your adventures are actually making a difference, and have consequences.
Suggestion 7
This one is probably a little less reasonable, but I think it still needs said: more 'generic' ships. All of the aliens I encounter in exploration zones, that don't belong to a major faction, fly exactly the same ships. This gets old pretty quickly.
I would suggest making customizable 'neutral' ships, not unlike players ships; make a few basic frames, and a bunch of parts to hang off them. The parts don't all need to be completely unique, slightly modified parts off of existing ships would probably do for some of it. Add some 'alien' hull materials, maybe make deflector and nacelle glowy separate variables for the sake of variety; that sort of thing.
In keeping with my earlier suggestions, I would suggest that the game remember what a particular species was flying when they were encountered by the player, for the sake of consistency; some sort of code attached to the player character. Player encountered species x, with ship configuration 2, components 7 1 4 6, skin 3, etc. So it knows what to put that species in if the player runs into them again.
This is just an outstanding idea. Having your own personal Khan or a Barclay type character to give the missions personality would be fan-freaking-tastic.
I like where your head is at on all of these talking points honestly.
I'll re-iterate from a similar thread. I would like to see 'duck-blind' or 'undercover alien' observation/first contact type missions much in the spirit of Insurrection and the TNG episode "First Contact". Such would tie in nicely with the exploration 'mission chains' suggested on this thread. And imagine the fun possible mission goals you can get out of this! I like my combat, I like action, but we need variety! Not all pew-pew or simple gather samples.
Missions in our ships. Sounds like an odd suggestion for exploration, right? But consider, how many times did Star Trek's intrepid heroes pick up some weird disease, or strange life form, while out exploring? It was not uncommon for the real action in an exploration based 'enemy of the week' episode to mostly take place on board the ship.
Maybe we pick up a shape changer who is impersonating a member of the crew. Maybe an energy based life form got caught, unnoticed, in the transporter beam as we returned from a survey. Maybe an ancient artifact we picked up is actually an insane super computer that wiped out its creators.
I know that the nature of the ship interiors makes this difficult; but it's not impossible, and it would bring the game a little closer to the shows.
Q: (psiamesse) How high on the whiteboard is the Exploration revamp for STO?
STO Team: With the success of the Foundry, in many ways player authored missions has become the Exploration content within Star Trek Online. Now that Foundry missions offer valuable rewards, they are much higher quality episodes than the Genesis maps that were shipped at launch. Sometime in the next two years, we would like to leverage the popularity of the Foundry as a legitimate way to explore the galaxy.
Well, that just killed it. While I thought player created material would have been a great ADDITION to the system, your prediction of the dev team giving a big 'TRIBBLE it, let the players build it all for us' answer to this concern seems to have come true.
This seriously peeves me, as I was encouraged by the LoR work was really looking forward to what they could create reworking the exploration missions. And this little spitball thread had some really great ideas that didn't seem like they would be overly difficult to implement. Instead they decided to take the laziest approach possible.
STO community, let your voice be heard.
Is this answer acceptable to you?
(P.S. Cryptic: Yes there are GREAT foundry missions out there. But for every great one, there are two 'meh' and four 'terrible' ones.)
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Not acceptable at all! Though I guess that's no surprise coming from me.
What really bugs me is that the devs seem to feel that the problem with the exploration system is the quality of the Genesis maps. It isn't. Sure, they're not great, and a lot of them had serious problems, but they were mostly just open sandbox environments into which could have been put anything.
It's that 'anything' that is the real problem.
Interact with or shoot 4/5 objects.
Fight 4/5/6 enemy units.
Interact with or shoot 4/5 objects while fighting or evading 4/5/6 enemy units.
Give a planet X amount of Y.
Collect some data samples.
Did I miss any?
They are all about as basic as such missions can possible be. The Genesis system is the only thing that makes doing them over and over tolerable; at least the scenery changes from mission to mission. A bit anyway.
What we need is new mission types, and new game mechanics. The Foundry could help with the missions, sure, but only the devs can make new mechanics. Only the devs can make new enemy ships. Pretty sure only the devs can make new critters.
Anyway, if the quality control on the Genesis stuff was bad, it was still way better than the Foundry's is ever likely to be.
What's more, I distinctly remember, back when the idea of the Foundry was first being introduced to the community, the devs promising us that the Foundry would never be used as a substitute for dev crafted content.
As for 'sometime within the next two years', the devs shouldn't need told that this launch feature has gone without serious attention for long enough already. :mad:
Q: (psiamesse) How high on the whiteboard is the Exploration revamp for STO?
STO Team: With the success of the Foundry, in many ways player authored missions has become the Exploration content within Star Trek Online. Now that Foundry missions offer valuable rewards, they are much higher quality episodes than the Genesis maps that were shipped at launch. Sometime in the next two years, we would like to leverage the popularity of the Foundry as a legitimate way to explore the galaxy.
Well, that just killed it. While I thought player created material would have been a great ADDITION to the system, your prediction of the dev team giving a big 'TRIBBLE it, let the players build it all for us' answer to this concern seems to have come true.
This seriously peeves me, as I was encouraged by the LoR work was really looking forward to what they could create reworking the exploration missions. And this little spitball thread had some really great ideas that didn't seem like they would be overly difficult to implement. Instead they decided to take the laziest approach possible.
STO community, let your voice be heard.
Is this answer acceptable to you?
(P.S. Cryptic: Yes there are GREAT foundry missions out there. But for every great one, there are two 'meh' and four 'terrible' ones.)
Just when did the meaning of "exploration" change into "shoot everything"? The foundry has some pretty good missions but given the limited possibilities of STO to create an interesting non-combat mission with some true exploring (meaning peacfully) they are all just combat with an interesting story.
I was really hoping for a complete revamp of exploration just as I was hoping for a revamp of PvP. But now it seems that none of it is going to happen.
OK, so for the sake of my own peace of mind, I just have to assume that the devs can be convinced of how very wrong they are about exploration, and what it would/should take to fix it.
Clearly, nothing I have posted so far in this thread has made a dent; however, my suggestions may have been a little too ambitious for first steps. Perhaps I need to think smaller, if my goal is to persuade the devs that: A) improving exploration is not too much work for them to take on themselves on top of everything else; and that it is not necessary to wait 2 years for new tools to be developed.
So, mission types that could be added to exploration zones that draw upon stuff that is already in the game.
Provide medical assistance. Based on Breen Mission 'Cold Comfort', and Devidian mission 'Everything Old is New'.
Stop Saboteurs. Based on Fleet Event 'Starbase Incursion' (at least the first part of it; possibly include a disarming element should a saboteur get away, perhaps involving one of the scanning minigames).
Rescue crew from damaged facility/ship. Based on Mission 'Stranded in Space'. Circumvent or remove environmental hazards to rescue crew. If practical, some versions may include a space walking section to gain access to the facility/ship (setting up pattern enhancers once you arrive to allow the rest of your party to beam in) based on Dominion Mission 'Boldly They Rode'.
Rescue captives. Based on Breen Mission 'Out in the Cold' and Deferi Daily 'Emancipation'.
Save colony from comet/meteor. Based on Devidian Mission 'Night of the Comet' and Romulan Mission 'Saturday's Child'. Perhaps include a time limit. Perhaps make it possible to divert the thing with Grav Wells and Tractor Beams, so that having a high DPS Escort isn't the only way to win.
None of those (except the space walk bit) would require anything special map-wise; they'd just increase the diversity of what we might run into while out exploring.
Other things that could be done to mix things up (may or may not be easy, I dunno):
Toxic Environment (environment suit required, so mostly for higher level regions).
Harsh Conditions (maybe a sandstorm that applies an accuracy debuff, strong winds that apply a slow effect, earthquakes that apply a disable effect or make the characters fall over - obviously, these would be sporadic, not persistent).
Multiple Away Teams (so you have small groups of allied NPCs scattered around).
The above proposals from capnmanx would be a fantastic and seemingly easily implemented compromise. As stated, a revamp would be ideal but perhaps a bit too ambitious at this juncture.
I ask the Cryptic development team to PLEASE consider these and move this topic up in the order of important issues.
Simply allowing foundry missions to take the place of one of the features of the game and an important part of Star Trek is a substandard 'solution' and undermines the hard work you have already put into what is overall a great game. Please reconsider your stance.
Those who have taken the time to read this, post here, or are in general agreement I ask to not let this matter rest or this thread die/become buried. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
The real problem is not that the devs couldn't come up with something new and exciting, I'm no Cryptic fanboi, and I think they've managed to hit the nail on the head a few times, but that they have directives to maximize money and minimize effort getting it. This is why all of the new stuff we get is either paid directly for (C-store stuff and lockboxes), stuff we have to pay indirectly for (all of the starbase stuff), or stuff meant to be big and flashy to get new blood into the game (Like Temporal Ambasador or LoR). Unless a new exploration system meets one or more of those points, it probably won't be done, IMHO.
And yes, maybe I'm being cynical, but that is what I see, so here is my suggestion, which steals shamelessly from a few earlier things I've seen in this thread and elsewhere. This also folds in a new crafting system.
Exploration should be the theme of one of the next starbase holdings. Like the embassy, there will be two tiers, one for exploration, and the other for research. The "exploration embassy" for this could be on New Romulas in the lava caves near the Iconian gateway, with Fed and KDF versions one to each side of the gateway. The backstory is that they have managed to get the gateway sorta working, and need experienced captains to go through it to see what is out there and either explore or conquer it depending on your side. Kinda like Stargate, seems interesting, lets nick it, in the words of my old MMO heros.
Each day, your captain can take an exploration mission on a random map. These would be similar to what the current exploration missions are, but more so. There would be a set number of maps, each with a different lighting and effect set, and all would be randomized, so that one map set piece could be shown in many different ways. Say there is a cave map, and one day it could be filled with a fog effect, and the next day, it could be filled with rainbox particles, or what have you. This would allow some repeatibility without having to have huge numbers of maps, or some sort of on the fly random map generator (though that would be best). Kinda like how they used the same set in TNG, with different lighting and plants.
Also, the mission objective would be randomized, so that is would be something like those games where you fill in the blanks. Something like, "Greetings captain. Your missions today is to (explore, attack, mine, recon) this new world we have discovered. Advanced probes have detected (enemies, vacuum, toxic fumes), so be prepared. However, we have also detected a (friendly species, dilithium mine, particle fountain, future slave race) so we need to go there. Good luck." The missions then generates the random elements. Again, if all of this is on the same few maps, you can have set spawn points for each thing you have to do or fight.
The different missions would also reward you different things. You could get dilithium, or diplomacy/maruder cxp, or particle traces, etc. Again, like today, but hopefully more dynamic with more mini games, like the mining one or the radiation scan one for the non-fighting missions.
There might also be special long range missions that you could take that are like the shorter ranged ones, but would be on much larger maps and involve more tasks in one, more like an actual story mission. These might need to be hand crafted, but hopefully could be worked in such a way that some random elemets could keep it a bit fresh. The large maps would also allow runing around in vehicles, that could be set up like the shuttles are in price. The basic free ones and then the dilithium and zen versions.
Also, the exploration tier would unlock access to more difficult, but mroe rewarding missions.
On the other side of things, your exploration embassy would also have research facilities for the stuff that gets brought back, and the more your fleet upgrades the research tier, the more stuff you can build. This would be the place to craft Mark XII weapons and stuff with custom mods within whatever limits Cryptic wants to set up. Maybe this would be a good place for the slightly strange stuff, like wide angle torpedos? Or ground stuff, there isn't a good source of that beyond the rep missions. Maybe you coudl craft your own sets? Say have there three things be a set, and then choose from a list of set effects.
Instead of the the usual tier missions on the research side, there would be a contributation bank. This would work so that fleet members could donate particle traces, dilithium, etc, and get some fleet credits for it as well as upgrade the tiers. Then the fleet crafters, could take the stuff in the bank and use it to craft new stuff. This would give crafters some fleet credit for making the stuff, and increase the research tier some more, and the stuff made would then go in the fleet store to sell. This system would also allow fleets to contribute to the "crafting guys" in their fleets, and let the "crafting guys" do crafting and get rewarded for it. Just to make sure, maybe make it so that the all of the research tiers can make Mark XII stuff, just different types. So Tier one is all pistols and shilds, tier two is rifles and armor, and tier three is assault weapons and kits. Or something. Just so that any crafting done at Tier one could be useful and not just inventory filler until you get to tier three.
There you go, exploration revamp that is tied into dilithium, and would be a new hyped thing given the fleet project status. And if they did vehicles there's the third part of PWEs goal sheet. And I threw in crafting for free. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I hope this was at least interesting to the Cryptic devs.
More, and less repetitive, content is absolutely needed. If you brainstormed a thread I bet you could easily fill out 20+ mission templates that could make exploration actually fun, as your own post proves; would love to play some of these.
The main issue I see is that Cryptic just doesn't seem to care about exploration, because you can't slap a price tag on it. If they actually made the exploration areas expansive and detailed, and gave exploration ships perks that actually mattered, then maybe we'd have a different story, as truly exploration focused ships could then become viable monetarily, as opposed to just giving anything borg or MACO engines as we do now
Sorry, that's a bit negative; I love the ideas, and I'd love to see it; especially anything that could involve more space missions or stuff on ships rather than on the rubbish ground maps that we have now.
But there's the thing.
For as much as Cryptic is cash involved, they do in fact push lots of good free content. Feature episode series, limited time free ship promotions, hell a full blown expansion pack in a couple of weeks, even Remans for those of us who have put in the work, it's beautiful in many ways.
So I don't necessarily buy that they can't or won't do exploration because it's not a money pit. There's still a piece of the devs souls that believes in delivering good content. And if any one of them is a perfectionist, then this is a hole in the game. All aspects of the game should be good. The devs talk a lot about the end game, and no not Voyager's finale.
Exploration is Starfleet's primary function. The endgame should have more than a large amount of exploration.
I would just like a simple /scan command that gives you a randomised list of elements of the space about you. "Twenty particles of space dust per cubic meter, fifty-two ultraviolet radiation spikes, and a class two comet."
You should be able to do that anywhere. In fact that should be something that comes up in like a ship's sensor log. Actually that would be a much better environmental hazard than something like the Donatu system repeatable where there's the EM field that scrambles your ability to come out of red alert and use full impulse (though that is good).
But depending on the conditions in a system, certain powers should work better.
For instance, Tachyon beam should have more shield weakening power if the system is saturated with tachyons, because of say a tachyon pulsar. And that same tachyon field should TRIBBLE with cloaking devices. In a star system where the star is a supergiant blue star, the temperature should be high enough that Plasma weapons get enhanced damage.
And on the subject of that class 2 comet...this game has gorgeous visuals. So if you do a sensor scan of your sector and get that comet, then you should actually be able to have the comet appear on your sector space, or system map, and travel to it. Perhaps mine it for data samples, but in general, go to see it, chart it, and me personally, I'd say take pictures of it and hang them in your ready room. I know this is traipsing into ship interior territory, but it would be more meaningful to have pictures in your ready room and quarters of phenomena that you've actually seen.
Scans indicate a neutron star, and you can go there and actually mine neutronium or decalithium. (For whatever purpose, a new commodity, things to deliver to Starfleet like contraband, or for use in like a fleet project.)
So here's MY suggestion.
=================================
To start with, Exploration clusters should be true clusters. Every exploration cluster should be massively upsized. I initially thought that they should all just be endless expanses, literally, if you just press your engage in any direction, then you should never run out of space. Have a beacon dropped so you could track just how many light years you've traveled. And to add a little tension if you want to get back for something like a borg red alert, then you have to either use transwarp or since the network isn't actually out that far, physically travel back to your starting point. Or as a fleet project, build a transwarp gate in that cluster.
As much as I like that idea it may be difficult for the current engine so I have an alternative.
Exploration clusters should be the largest single areas in the game. Unexplored space will always be larger than claimed territories. Each exploration cluster should be at least 3x3 sectors in szie or better yet 4x4, or 5x5. Fully nine, sixteen, or twenty five sectors across truly huge. (If that's impossible then at least let's have 2x2 exploration clusters).
I don't see why that would be difficult for the engine, We already have four sector sector blocks in a square arrangement.
Which brings me to the next suggestion. To help navigate these huge tracts of space, (though I know many loathe Reputation systems, let alone bringing back exploration marks, Cryptic loves them and I'm cool with them) but there should in fact be an Exploration based equipment set. A deflector dish that provides better anomaly scans and wider system scans, high powered shields (instead of 20% damage resistance on plasma weapons that are anti-borg, a 10% across the board all energy type damage reduction so the crew is better protected against any type, or maybe an Aegis stacking resistance to the shield), and an extremely fast transwarp engine for traversing the large block. Maybe we could call it the Galaxy set, since that was the premiere exploration cruiser for fifty years.
To tie in to that, doff missions like chart astrometric anomalies could also gain percentage on critical success based on the deflector dish you have equipped. And a success on that mission would grant a speed increase (Based on the warp highways segment of this article, which I integrate into every ST fiction I write.).
I'm a huge fan of the idea of ongoing missions I think this game could truly use MORE follow up missions. I still want to go back to Hfihar to check on those miners.
And I agree, the usage of main game missions as the basis for exploration missions is extremely efficient and would be a lot more fun. Even better if they give us a twist ending so that these missions don't end in necessarily the same way, or we get to change up what we do a little.
Furthermore Cryptic has already done it, which is where we get our Deferi daily missions.
Lastly, on the subject of DOFF missions, I agree there should be more, and they should tie in to normal missions.
For instance, once you complete the colonial chain in a cluster. This unlocks a mission to actually go visit the colony you just helped finish building and see what you've accomplished. Maybe retained as the colony's liaison to the Federation. And I mean that as a larger thing, because the end of a DOFF mission chain, should also lead to a mission for you as a grand finale to the arc.
And the missions for those colonies could be repeatable. For instance, you go into a cluster and you have established a colony. You receive a distress call. Raiders hit the colony. You come to the rescue. Now depending on some factor, maybe how long it's been you've come to this cluster, they could have only taken light damage and you stopped the attack and sent the raiders packing, or it's been a while and they've been enduring regular attacks and you need to do more doff missions to help them rebuild. And depending on how many times you've done the repeatable colony missions. How many settlers you've brought, how many times you've built additional fortifications, that determines how strong the colony actually is.
The Duty Officers discover something that they can't deal with and need the full ship and crew, OR the DOFF missions were just laying the ground work for a mission for your ship, so if they say failed a mission to sabotage a weapons depot, then the enemies in your mission will have more weapons, sniper rifles, assault miniguns, mortars, and will be throwing grenades, whereas if the mission is a success then they will have rifles, grenades, and maybe a few weak turrets, and if it's a critical success then they'll be restricted to pistols and melee weapons and have half as many people. Man that sounds like fun just writing it.
Another way to use it would be have the DOFF mission be to chart the area, and if it's successful, then you get a general map of their base instead of going in blind with the fog of mystery on your map, and on a critical success they find a back door for you to bypass their defenses completely.
On the subject of the Nemesis system, I would also suggest that maybe you could tie it in to each character's account. For instance personal story wise, my Klingon captain IS my Starfleet main's nemesis. While my female Starfleet alt, is my main's best friend. So my Klingon would be my nemesis while you could also have an ally. So rather than design a separate nemesis I could simply link him in to the system instead. Or have a rival in the same faction who always is obnoxious, flies in to your battles kill stealing etc.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I like the idea of a limited fuel supply you can fill up with certain elements or with EC. A bit like Battlestar Galatica Online. Smaller ships will have smaller tanks while Galaxy classes could have the larger capacities. I could be applied all over the game.
Vice Admiral Dylan Hunt
107th Fleet
and
Lt Brain
Stargate Command
Commander James
26th Fleet
Task Force Avalon - CO USS Intrepid
I haven't read everything, but i must say there are some very cool Exploration concepts here.
/like
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
These threads are akin to masturbation. Or a circle jerk even. If you guys listened to what Dstahl says in his interviews, you wouldn't be posting post after post requesting things you'll never get.
Dstahl recently said in an interview that exploration will never be a focal point in this game and that this is a space combat oriented game first and foremost and it will always be a space combat game. He went on to say that the exploration/diplomacy Trek game that *we* (himself included) all want will be another game. ie. not this one.
Things you can look forward to in STO:
-More adventure zones
-More Rep systems (grind)
-More Fleet Holdings (grind)
-More half factions
-More ships and gear to buy or grind for
-More grind
-More grind
A poster in another thread said something which I think was spot on. Something to the effect of "People play and like STO for the game that it could be. Not the game that it is."
All you have to do is look to Neverwinter to see that Cryptic is fundamentally incapable of giving the fans of the IP what they want. These things are not compatible with the free to play model, nor the PWE grinder business model.
You can either come to peace with the writing on the wall and accept STO for what it is or move on.
These threads are akin to masturbation. Or a circle jerk even. If you guys listened to what Dstahl says in his interviews, you wouldn't be posting post after post requesting things you'll never get.
Dstahl recently said in an interview that exploration will never be a focal point in this game and that this is a space combat oriented game first and foremost and it will always be a space combat game. He went on to say that the exploration/diplomacy Trek game that *we* (himself included) all want will be another game. ie. not this one.
Things you can look forward to in STO:
-More adventure zones
-More Rep systems (grind)
-More Fleet Holdings (grind)
-More half factions
-More ships and gear to buy or grind for
-More grind
-More grind
A poster in another thread said something which I think was spot on. Something to the effect of "People play and like STO for the game that it could be. Not the game that it is."
All you have to do is look to Neverwinter to see that Cryptic is fundamentally incapable of giving the fans of the IP what they want. These things are not compatible with the free to play model, nor the PWE grinder business model.
You can either come to peace with the writing on the wall and accept STO for what it is or move on.
Actually he's made several comments about giving exploration some attention (if only in passing); including in his recent Mog Nation interview.
What about integrating foundry missions in with exploration missions? That way, cryptic gets the dil nerf they really want by only having the one daily wrapper mission, the foundry authors get their egos stroked with player numbers and the players get to keep the exploration missions.
Every one is happy (ish).
Comments
How to translate those sorts of ideas into interactive, interesting game play? That I'm less sure about.
I don't think it really matters, to be honest.
The lack of any kind of actual 'exploration' has been lamented, complained about, creatively criticized and suggested since before (yes, before) launch.
There has been talk of a reworking of exploration since people (me included) started talking about how horribly repetitive and UN-explorative "exploration" mission were back in Beta over 3 years ago.
Guys, the game is what it is. I'd love to see a lot of things revamped (developer, for a start), but I have no faith it's going to ever happen.
Heh. 'Negative space wedgies'.
Well, yeah. 'Enemy of the Week' sort of stuff. That is what the bulk of Trek episodes revolved around after all. Nothing to say they couldn't try something bigger from time to time of course; but generally, yeah, 'negative space wedgies'.
Thankfully, 'faith' is not required here; just dreams and wishes. People are welcome to add 'but I don't expect it to ever happen' to their posts should they feel it necessary. :P
Personally, I find coming up with ideas to be fun.
Speaking of... This ended getting its own thread, but I came up with it for this one; so I guess it deserves a link at least - Adding more gameplay to our gameplay.
It didn't really catch on; but then, my threads usually don't (next one is going in general discussion I swear...).
Random terrain. Now, I know that maps made with the Genesis system can have their faults (buildings floating over big holes in the ground, enemies dropping through the floor, buried objectives, and so on); however, something like a simple survey mission wouldn't necessarily need any of that stuff. If we accept that the ability to 'boldly go where no one has gone before' is one of the goals of exploration, then having places that are literally brand new furthers that goal.
Sure, someone might get stuck down a hole, but that's just one of the perils of exploring; at least they can beam themselves out of it (maybe include a 'site to site transport to beam in point' option, just in case).
If there are no physical objectives, then those objectives can't be made unreachable. Just wandering around the map taking sensor readings, to see what turns up, would be a fairly safe activity (to clarify: click the scan button at any random point, and a list of nearby stuff is presented; anything that might be of value or interest is simply present in the scan results of a given area, rather than being an actual game object).
There could be wild critters serving as enemies on some of these maps to mix things up a little (just random: are there critters? yes/no, if 'yes' are they hostile? yes/no); but since they wouldn't be objectives, it wouldn't really matter if any of them got stuck somewhere.
---EDIT---
To clarify: this would just be one thing among many, rather like the 'Aid the Planet' missions; I'm not suggesting that all exploration should be like this.
I dunno about random terrain. There's a fine balance between realism and entertainment. Getting stuck in holes, even if you can beam yourself out, doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. I do like the critters idea, though.
Also, this thread needed a bump.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Yes! I was just thinking the other day we should have ground maps that would allow us to use an Argo type vehicle. Plus, I like that last thought there about racing leagues. Perhaps a planet with a race track. A new form of PvP!
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I really like this! No, we totally should be able to make our own enemy: name, look, everything. Our own personal Tomalok or Gul Dukat. I love it! The Nemesis can be from an established race/faction in-game or use the Alien option to create a unique enemy. As you said, Champions already has this system established, surely it can be ported to STO.
Agree with this as well, and it could also fall under the Nemesis option, especially if you've chosen to create an Alien race as a Nemesis.
Again, agreed, and could also fall under the Nemesis option. In addition to different looks of equipment, you could determine their energy types, what types of weapons this new enemy uses.
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This could definitely work and solve the problem of Cryptic not having the time to create all of this new Exploration content. Of course, they'd have to be approved by Cryptic and then specially coded to trigger on an Exploration map, so that we don't get missions that make no sense popping up wherever we happen to be. They would also have to have minimum and maximum time limits on these missions. I've heard some Foundry missions are ridiculously long.
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Perhaps some could work like current PvE missions, where when you enter the Exploration Sector, you're teamed with 4 other Captains. Together you chart the sector, which starts out as a blacked out map that opens up as you explore. Random enemy encounters could occur that would require your team to defeat. Various anomolies could be scanned. These encounters could occur in space and/or ground. As suggested in another post, there could be a percentage indicator showing how much of the sector has been explored with the mission ending when 100% has been explored. This would be an extended encounter mission, much like Tau Dewa Sector Patrol except the map would be blank until it was opened up by actual exploration. And it could replace the 3 system requirement for Explore Strange New Worlds since it would be an extended mission.
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Brilliant!
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Oh, I could totally get behind the idea of having a real Nemesis System in STO; I just consider it to be a separate issue from exploration (after all, we wouldn't really be 'discovering' our brand new mortal enemies if we made them ourselves). I thought it should be a little more random when it comes to the whole seeking out new life and new civilizations (and seriously ticking them off) thing. But yeah, my own personal Gul Dukat would be pretty cool. :cool:
^ This idea might need its own thread.
I had an epiphany while reading this thread, though, about an exploration idea. I've gotta go type up these ideas while they're coming. Keep an eye out. This should be good.
BEWARE: Wall of Text on its way!
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Buildings (or 'urban') as a terrain type. Take 'ancient ruins' for example: in STO these would generally be represented by some stone columns, or maybe an obelisk. Why are there no real ruins?
Anyone who has played Mass Effect 3 will remember travelling through the ancient ruins on Tuchanka; now that was exploring. Didn't even have a choice of directions; just following the path, and occasionally stopping to look at a mural, or have a fight. It still really felt like exploration though; and was very impressive to look at.
I realise, of course, that BioWare probably put a great deal of time and effort into those ruins; I certainly don't expect that level of detail for exploration missions. Still, it occurs to me that all exploration ground zones are put together in more or less the same way; dirt/sand, with rocks/plants/buildings sitting on it. We have no terrain that is made of architecture in the exploration zones. We just have little bits of architecture sitting on the terrain (often 'wilderness' terrain, with nothing but a few dirt tracks joining scattered pre-fab buildings together).
This is just an outstanding idea. Having your own personal Khan or a Barclay type character to give the missions personality would be fan-freaking-tastic.
I like where your head is at on all of these talking points honestly.
I'll re-iterate from a similar thread. I would like to see 'duck-blind' or 'undercover alien' observation/first contact type missions much in the spirit of Insurrection and the TNG episode "First Contact". Such would tie in nicely with the exploration 'mission chains' suggested on this thread. And imagine the fun possible mission goals you can get out of this! I like my combat, I like action, but we need variety! Not all pew-pew or simple gather samples.
Keep those great ideas coming!
Missions in our ships. Sounds like an odd suggestion for exploration, right? But consider, how many times did Star Trek's intrepid heroes pick up some weird disease, or strange life form, while out exploring? It was not uncommon for the real action in an exploration based 'enemy of the week' episode to mostly take place on board the ship.
Maybe we pick up a shape changer who is impersonating a member of the crew. Maybe an energy based life form got caught, unnoticed, in the transporter beam as we returned from a survey. Maybe an ancient artifact we picked up is actually an insane super computer that wiped out its creators.
I know that the nature of the ship interiors makes this difficult; but it's not impossible, and it would bring the game a little closer to the shows.
STO Team: With the success of the Foundry, in many ways player authored missions has become the Exploration content within Star Trek Online. Now that Foundry missions offer valuable rewards, they are much higher quality episodes than the Genesis maps that were shipped at launch. Sometime in the next two years, we would like to leverage the popularity of the Foundry as a legitimate way to explore the galaxy.
Well, that just killed it. While I thought player created material would have been a great ADDITION to the system, your prediction of the dev team giving a big 'TRIBBLE it, let the players build it all for us' answer to this concern seems to have come true.
This seriously peeves me, as I was encouraged by the LoR work was really looking forward to what they could create reworking the exploration missions. And this little spitball thread had some really great ideas that didn't seem like they would be overly difficult to implement. Instead they decided to take the laziest approach possible.
STO community, let your voice be heard.
Is this answer acceptable to you?
(P.S. Cryptic: Yes there are GREAT foundry missions out there. But for every great one, there are two 'meh' and four 'terrible' ones.)
HELL NO!
Well, not the timeframe. I like the idea of using Foundry missions because it solves the problem of boring, predictable exploration missions.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
What really bugs me is that the devs seem to feel that the problem with the exploration system is the quality of the Genesis maps. It isn't. Sure, they're not great, and a lot of them had serious problems, but they were mostly just open sandbox environments into which could have been put anything.
It's that 'anything' that is the real problem.
Did I miss any?
They are all about as basic as such missions can possible be. The Genesis system is the only thing that makes doing them over and over tolerable; at least the scenery changes from mission to mission. A bit anyway.
What we need is new mission types, and new game mechanics. The Foundry could help with the missions, sure, but only the devs can make new mechanics. Only the devs can make new enemy ships. Pretty sure only the devs can make new critters.
Anyway, if the quality control on the Genesis stuff was bad, it was still way better than the Foundry's is ever likely to be.
What's more, I distinctly remember, back when the idea of the Foundry was first being introduced to the community, the devs promising us that the Foundry would never be used as a substitute for dev crafted content.
As for 'sometime within the next two years', the devs shouldn't need told that this launch feature has gone without serious attention for long enough already. :mad:
No. Just... no.
I was really hoping for a complete revamp of exploration just as I was hoping for a revamp of PvP. But now it seems that none of it is going to happen.
Clearly, nothing I have posted so far in this thread has made a dent; however, my suggestions may have been a little too ambitious for first steps. Perhaps I need to think smaller, if my goal is to persuade the devs that: A) improving exploration is not too much work for them to take on themselves on top of everything else; and
So, mission types that could be added to exploration zones that draw upon stuff that is already in the game.
Provide medical assistance. Based on Breen Mission 'Cold Comfort', and Devidian mission 'Everything Old is New'.
Stop Saboteurs. Based on Fleet Event 'Starbase Incursion' (at least the first part of it; possibly include a disarming element should a saboteur get away, perhaps involving one of the scanning minigames).
Rescue crew from damaged facility/ship. Based on Mission 'Stranded in Space'. Circumvent or remove environmental hazards to rescue crew. If practical, some versions may include a space walking section to gain access to the facility/ship (setting up pattern enhancers once you arrive to allow the rest of your party to beam in) based on Dominion Mission 'Boldly They Rode'.
Rescue captives. Based on Breen Mission 'Out in the Cold' and Deferi Daily 'Emancipation'.
Save colony from comet/meteor. Based on Devidian Mission 'Night of the Comet' and Romulan Mission 'Saturday's Child'. Perhaps include a time limit. Perhaps make it possible to divert the thing with Grav Wells and Tractor Beams, so that having a high DPS Escort isn't the only way to win.
None of those (except the space walk bit) would require anything special map-wise; they'd just increase the diversity of what we might run into while out exploring.
Other things that could be done to mix things up (may or may not be easy, I dunno):
Toxic Environment (environment suit required, so mostly for higher level regions).
Harsh Conditions (maybe a sandstorm that applies an accuracy debuff, strong winds that apply a slow effect, earthquakes that apply a disable effect or make the characters fall over - obviously, these would be sporadic, not persistent).
Multiple Away Teams (so you have small groups of allied NPCs scattered around).
I ask the Cryptic development team to PLEASE consider these and move this topic up in the order of important issues.
Simply allowing foundry missions to take the place of one of the features of the game and an important part of Star Trek is a substandard 'solution' and undermines the hard work you have already put into what is overall a great game. Please reconsider your stance.
Those who have taken the time to read this, post here, or are in general agreement I ask to not let this matter rest or this thread die/become buried. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
And yes, maybe I'm being cynical, but that is what I see, so here is my suggestion, which steals shamelessly from a few earlier things I've seen in this thread and elsewhere. This also folds in a new crafting system.
Exploration should be the theme of one of the next starbase holdings. Like the embassy, there will be two tiers, one for exploration, and the other for research. The "exploration embassy" for this could be on New Romulas in the lava caves near the Iconian gateway, with Fed and KDF versions one to each side of the gateway. The backstory is that they have managed to get the gateway sorta working, and need experienced captains to go through it to see what is out there and either explore or conquer it depending on your side. Kinda like Stargate, seems interesting, lets nick it, in the words of my old MMO heros.
Each day, your captain can take an exploration mission on a random map. These would be similar to what the current exploration missions are, but more so. There would be a set number of maps, each with a different lighting and effect set, and all would be randomized, so that one map set piece could be shown in many different ways. Say there is a cave map, and one day it could be filled with a fog effect, and the next day, it could be filled with rainbox particles, or what have you. This would allow some repeatibility without having to have huge numbers of maps, or some sort of on the fly random map generator (though that would be best). Kinda like how they used the same set in TNG, with different lighting and plants.
Also, the mission objective would be randomized, so that is would be something like those games where you fill in the blanks. Something like, "Greetings captain. Your missions today is to (explore, attack, mine, recon) this new world we have discovered. Advanced probes have detected (enemies, vacuum, toxic fumes), so be prepared. However, we have also detected a (friendly species, dilithium mine, particle fountain, future slave race) so we need to go there. Good luck." The missions then generates the random elements. Again, if all of this is on the same few maps, you can have set spawn points for each thing you have to do or fight.
The different missions would also reward you different things. You could get dilithium, or diplomacy/maruder cxp, or particle traces, etc. Again, like today, but hopefully more dynamic with more mini games, like the mining one or the radiation scan one for the non-fighting missions.
There might also be special long range missions that you could take that are like the shorter ranged ones, but would be on much larger maps and involve more tasks in one, more like an actual story mission. These might need to be hand crafted, but hopefully could be worked in such a way that some random elemets could keep it a bit fresh. The large maps would also allow runing around in vehicles, that could be set up like the shuttles are in price. The basic free ones and then the dilithium and zen versions.
Also, the exploration tier would unlock access to more difficult, but mroe rewarding missions.
On the other side of things, your exploration embassy would also have research facilities for the stuff that gets brought back, and the more your fleet upgrades the research tier, the more stuff you can build. This would be the place to craft Mark XII weapons and stuff with custom mods within whatever limits Cryptic wants to set up. Maybe this would be a good place for the slightly strange stuff, like wide angle torpedos? Or ground stuff, there isn't a good source of that beyond the rep missions. Maybe you coudl craft your own sets? Say have there three things be a set, and then choose from a list of set effects.
Instead of the the usual tier missions on the research side, there would be a contributation bank. This would work so that fleet members could donate particle traces, dilithium, etc, and get some fleet credits for it as well as upgrade the tiers. Then the fleet crafters, could take the stuff in the bank and use it to craft new stuff. This would give crafters some fleet credit for making the stuff, and increase the research tier some more, and the stuff made would then go in the fleet store to sell. This system would also allow fleets to contribute to the "crafting guys" in their fleets, and let the "crafting guys" do crafting and get rewarded for it. Just to make sure, maybe make it so that the all of the research tiers can make Mark XII stuff, just different types. So Tier one is all pistols and shilds, tier two is rifles and armor, and tier three is assault weapons and kits. Or something. Just so that any crafting done at Tier one could be useful and not just inventory filler until you get to tier three.
There you go, exploration revamp that is tied into dilithium, and would be a new hyped thing given the fleet project status. And if they did vehicles there's the third part of PWEs goal sheet. And I threw in crafting for free. Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I hope this was at least interesting to the Cryptic devs.
Nouveau riche LTS member
But there's the thing.
For as much as Cryptic is cash involved, they do in fact push lots of good free content. Feature episode series, limited time free ship promotions, hell a full blown expansion pack in a couple of weeks, even Remans for those of us who have put in the work, it's beautiful in many ways.
So I don't necessarily buy that they can't or won't do exploration because it's not a money pit. There's still a piece of the devs souls that believes in delivering good content. And if any one of them is a perfectionist, then this is a hole in the game. All aspects of the game should be good. The devs talk a lot about the end game, and no not Voyager's finale.
Exploration is Starfleet's primary function. The endgame should have more than a large amount of exploration.
You should be able to do that anywhere. In fact that should be something that comes up in like a ship's sensor log. Actually that would be a much better environmental hazard than something like the Donatu system repeatable where there's the EM field that scrambles your ability to come out of red alert and use full impulse (though that is good).
But depending on the conditions in a system, certain powers should work better.
For instance, Tachyon beam should have more shield weakening power if the system is saturated with tachyons, because of say a tachyon pulsar. And that same tachyon field should TRIBBLE with cloaking devices. In a star system where the star is a supergiant blue star, the temperature should be high enough that Plasma weapons get enhanced damage.
And on the subject of that class 2 comet...this game has gorgeous visuals. So if you do a sensor scan of your sector and get that comet, then you should actually be able to have the comet appear on your sector space, or system map, and travel to it. Perhaps mine it for data samples, but in general, go to see it, chart it, and me personally, I'd say take pictures of it and hang them in your ready room. I know this is traipsing into ship interior territory, but it would be more meaningful to have pictures in your ready room and quarters of phenomena that you've actually seen.
Scans indicate a neutron star, and you can go there and actually mine neutronium or decalithium. (For whatever purpose, a new commodity, things to deliver to Starfleet like contraband, or for use in like a fleet project.)
So here's MY suggestion.
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To start with, Exploration clusters should be true clusters. Every exploration cluster should be massively upsized. I initially thought that they should all just be endless expanses, literally, if you just press your engage in any direction, then you should never run out of space. Have a beacon dropped so you could track just how many light years you've traveled. And to add a little tension if you want to get back for something like a borg red alert, then you have to either use transwarp or since the network isn't actually out that far, physically travel back to your starting point. Or as a fleet project, build a transwarp gate in that cluster.
As much as I like that idea it may be difficult for the current engine so I have an alternative.
Exploration clusters should be the largest single areas in the game. Unexplored space will always be larger than claimed territories. Each exploration cluster should be at least 3x3 sectors in szie or better yet 4x4, or 5x5. Fully nine, sixteen, or twenty five sectors across truly huge. (If that's impossible then at least let's have 2x2 exploration clusters).
I don't see why that would be difficult for the engine, We already have four sector sector blocks in a square arrangement.
Which brings me to the next suggestion. To help navigate these huge tracts of space, (though I know many loathe Reputation systems, let alone bringing back exploration marks, Cryptic loves them and I'm cool with them) but there should in fact be an Exploration based equipment set. A deflector dish that provides better anomaly scans and wider system scans, high powered shields (instead of 20% damage resistance on plasma weapons that are anti-borg, a 10% across the board all energy type damage reduction so the crew is better protected against any type, or maybe an Aegis stacking resistance to the shield), and an extremely fast transwarp engine for traversing the large block. Maybe we could call it the Galaxy set, since that was the premiere exploration cruiser for fifty years.
To tie in to that, doff missions like chart astrometric anomalies could also gain percentage on critical success based on the deflector dish you have equipped. And a success on that mission would grant a speed increase (Based on the warp highways segment of this article, which I integrate into every ST fiction I write.).
I'm a huge fan of the idea of ongoing missions I think this game could truly use MORE follow up missions. I still want to go back to Hfihar to check on those miners.
And I agree, the usage of main game missions as the basis for exploration missions is extremely efficient and would be a lot more fun. Even better if they give us a twist ending so that these missions don't end in necessarily the same way, or we get to change up what we do a little.
Furthermore Cryptic has already done it, which is where we get our Deferi daily missions.
Lastly, on the subject of DOFF missions, I agree there should be more, and they should tie in to normal missions.
For instance, once you complete the colonial chain in a cluster. This unlocks a mission to actually go visit the colony you just helped finish building and see what you've accomplished. Maybe retained as the colony's liaison to the Federation. And I mean that as a larger thing, because the end of a DOFF mission chain, should also lead to a mission for you as a grand finale to the arc.
And the missions for those colonies could be repeatable. For instance, you go into a cluster and you have established a colony. You receive a distress call. Raiders hit the colony. You come to the rescue. Now depending on some factor, maybe how long it's been you've come to this cluster, they could have only taken light damage and you stopped the attack and sent the raiders packing, or it's been a while and they've been enduring regular attacks and you need to do more doff missions to help them rebuild. And depending on how many times you've done the repeatable colony missions. How many settlers you've brought, how many times you've built additional fortifications, that determines how strong the colony actually is.
The Duty Officers discover something that they can't deal with and need the full ship and crew, OR the DOFF missions were just laying the ground work for a mission for your ship, so if they say failed a mission to sabotage a weapons depot, then the enemies in your mission will have more weapons, sniper rifles, assault miniguns, mortars, and will be throwing grenades, whereas if the mission is a success then they will have rifles, grenades, and maybe a few weak turrets, and if it's a critical success then they'll be restricted to pistols and melee weapons and have half as many people. Man that sounds like fun just writing it.
Another way to use it would be have the DOFF mission be to chart the area, and if it's successful, then you get a general map of their base instead of going in blind with the fog of mystery on your map, and on a critical success they find a back door for you to bypass their defenses completely.
On the subject of the Nemesis system, I would also suggest that maybe you could tie it in to each character's account. For instance personal story wise, my Klingon captain IS my Starfleet main's nemesis. While my female Starfleet alt, is my main's best friend. So my Klingon would be my nemesis while you could also have an ally. So rather than design a separate nemesis I could simply link him in to the system instead. Or have a rival in the same faction who always is obnoxious, flies in to your battles kill stealing etc.
Vice Admiral Dylan Hunt
107th Fleet
and
Lt Brain
Stargate Command
26th Fleet
Task Force Avalon - CO USS Intrepid
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
/like
Dstahl recently said in an interview that exploration will never be a focal point in this game and that this is a space combat oriented game first and foremost and it will always be a space combat game. He went on to say that the exploration/diplomacy Trek game that *we* (himself included) all want will be another game. ie. not this one.
Things you can look forward to in STO:
-More adventure zones
-More Rep systems (grind)
-More Fleet Holdings (grind)
-More half factions
-More ships and gear to buy or grind for
-More grind
-More grind
A poster in another thread said something which I think was spot on. Something to the effect of "People play and like STO for the game that it could be. Not the game that it is."
All you have to do is look to Neverwinter to see that Cryptic is fundamentally incapable of giving the fans of the IP what they want. These things are not compatible with the free to play model, nor the PWE grinder business model.
You can either come to peace with the writing on the wall and accept STO for what it is or move on.
Actually he's made several comments about giving exploration some attention (if only in passing); including in his recent Mog Nation interview.
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Heh. 2409 views. Spooky. :P
Every one is happy (ish).