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Suggestions for future exploration revamp.

capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
The devs have occasionally talked about someday revamping exploration in STO; so I thought I'd rattle off a few ideas here, and invite anyone else with thoughts on the matter to do the same. :)

Suggestion 1.

The biggest problem with the current exploration missions is how repetitive they get; so it seems to me that the first thing to do would be to make what could happen a little more uncertain by randomizing certain results.

For example:

You receive a distress call from a ship belonging to your faction; they say they are under attack and require immediate assistance.

You arrive at the designate coordinates and find:

  1. that the ship is still under attack.
  2. that the ship has driven off its attackers but is badly damaged.
  3. a debris field with a few escape pods floating around in it.

You drive off the attackers, or beam over to the damaged ship to render aid, or rescue the crew from the escape pods. Then:

  1. the mission ends.
  2. some of the crew turn out to have been abducted during the attack, and need to be rescued.

Assuming the mission hasn't ended, you follow the warp trail of the attackers to another system. Upon arriving you find:

  1. the enemy ships are moving through the system at impulse. Sensors reveal the captured crew members are aboard; so disable the ships and beam them to safety (possibly there may be a diplomatic solution available).
  2. the enemy ships are positioned near a base or planet. Sensors reveal the captured crew members have been beamed off the ships, and into a holding facility. Destroy the enemy ships, and beam to the facility to rescue the captured crew members.
  3. the enemy ships have already departed, but sensors reveal that the captured crew have been transported to a facility in the system. Beam down to rescue them.

If you rescued the ship, and it wasn't too badly damaged, then it might (or might not) join you for this part; and the mission ends with the rescue of the crew members. If you rescued the ship but it was badly damaged, either because it was disabled when you arrived, or because it took a lot of damage fighting along side you, then you take the crew members back to their ship.

Maybe the mission ends there; or maybe the damage to the ship was extensive, and you need to give them a tow to a starbase. Maybe the mission ends there; or maybe you are ordered to go back and deliver a warning from your faction, so they don't try that again (which may or may not result in another fight).

Each bit would be short and simple; but it could result in anything from just clicking on some escape pods then going home, to a full blown multi-stage mission.

Suggestion 2

There really should be a sense of going somewhere new each time you go exploring. I accept that generating random terrain might be a big much, but what about a random sector map? It's a little disconcerting to see swarms of ships racing each other to anomalies; I'd suggest an instanced map for each player or team, which only has a small handful of things in it, which have to be hunted for (possibly using some sensor scan mechanic).

The things you can find might not be particularly interesting, but there should always be something to do there.

For example:

You find an uninhabited system, with a few seemingly unremarkable planets, moons, and asteroids; but it should be possible to do some kind of survey of these bodies, which may or may not turn up something of interest to your faction (like dilithium or neutronium). Maybe you could even beam down to collect some samples (environment suits may or may not be required).

Suggestion 3

If you do find something interesting while exploring, the game should remember it. These things could be used as triggers for future events. If you found dilithium, you might be asked to go back and help set up a mining facility, or to provide security for a facility that has already been built. If you had to fight someone, then maybe someone else of the same race, comes looking to settle the score. If you helped out some locals, then maybe they apply for membership to your faction and you get to host the meeting between representatives.

Suggestion 4

Work fleets into this somehow. Maybe allow us to relocate our starbases to systems we discover; maybe allow us to add a certain number of other systems to our fleet's territory (every starbase should have a patch of space it is responsible for one would think). Maybe put a console in the fleet bases that allows us to look over what's going on within the fleet's territory and see if anything needs doing (like a mission notice board). That distress call from suggestion 1 could just as easily have been picked up by the station as by a ship after all.

Maybe each fleet could have its own 'sector' that represents the fleet's area of control (either generated, or somehow 'assembled' by the fleet members tagging systems of interest that they discover).

Well, that's all I got. For those of you who read all that, thank you for your time. :)

What would you guys like to see from an exploration revamp?

---EDIT---

As it turned out, that wasn't all I had; browse the thread for additional suggestions.
Post edited by capnmanx on
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Comments

  • edited February 2013
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  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Good luck with this. I posted something very similar several times YEARS ago and was completely ignored.

    Well, when the devs talk about an exploration revamp, my feeling has always been that they aren't really sure what to do with it. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get.

    So, I thought tossing out some ideas might be genuinely constructive; I mean, everyone (game developers included) gets their inspiration from somewhere, right?
  • edited February 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • haravikkharavikk Member Posts: 278
    edited February 2013
    More, and less repetitive, content is absolutely needed. If you brainstormed a thread I bet you could easily fill out 20+ mission templates that could make exploration actually fun, as your own post proves; would love to play some of these.

    The main issue I see is that Cryptic just doesn't seem to care about exploration, because you can't slap a price tag on it. If they actually made the exploration areas expansive and detailed, and gave exploration ships perks that actually mattered, then maybe we'd have a different story, as truly exploration focused ships could then become viable monetarily, as opposed to just giving anything borg or MACO engines as we do now :)

    Sorry, that's a bit negative; I love the ideas, and I'd love to see it; especially anything that could involve more space missions or stuff on ships rather than on the rubbish ground maps that we have now.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    OK, got another one.

    Suggestion 5

    Take a page out of Mass Effect 1's book, and introduce some large open ground maps that can be explored by vehicle (and, obviously, introduce ground vehicles). These maps need not be as busy(? detailed? cluttered?) as existing ground maps; in fact, for the sake of decent driving conditions, probably should not be (don't need my buggy stuck down a ravine, or up a tree).

    If the driving were done well, you might get people heading out into the unknown just so they can try to find some decent dunes to race around on (or use as ramps for stunts). :cool:

    The game could really do with something like this; I can't honestly say I've ever felt like I was really exploring on the ground. I was too boxed in, too directed, and from a decent vantage point, could usually see everywhere it is possible to go.


    ---EDIT---

    It occurs to me that this could be a way for Cryptic to use exploration to make a little extra money. Say there was one free vehicle that was little more than a way of getting around a bit faster (like the Argo from Nemesis), and then a whole bunch of more exciting vehicles in the z-store. Hover vehicles, armoured vehicles, vehicles that are faster, or have turbos, or jump boosters, etc. Seems like Champions is doing that; so why not STO?

    If combined with Suggestion 4, it could lead to fleets forming their own racing leagues or something; adding incentive to getting better vehicles.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I know, I shouldn't be bumping my own thread; but there's no point me adding something in an edit if nobody is going to see it now is there? ;)

    Suggestion 6

    The Nemesis system from Cryptic's other MMO Champions, for those who don't know, is a feature that allows you to create your own arch-enemys. Something like that could be adapted for STO.

    I don't suggest we actually be able to make our own enemies (that would be weird); but suppose a nemesis could be generated by the system. More accurately, a recurring NPC who might show up whenever you enter his/her native region (so, potentially, one such character for each exploration zone); this NPC might be an enemy or ally, depending on the nature of your early encounters.

    So, if you first run into this NPC in a combat mission (and there are no diplomatic options available), chances are he or she is going to be an enemy; on the other hand, if this NPC's first appearance is is in the dialogue window of one of those 'deliver 10 seismic stabilizer' (or whatever) missions, chances are they will be an ally, and might show up to help you out from time to time.

    Ideally, there should be ways for their attitude towards you to change over time; an enemy might gradually come to respect you, or an ally might become disillusioned with your methods.

    This could create the sense that your adventures are actually making a difference, and have consequences.


    Suggestion 7

    This one is probably a little less reasonable, but I think it still needs said: more 'generic' ships. All of the aliens I encounter in exploration zones, that don't belong to a major faction, fly exactly the same ships. This gets old pretty quickly.

    I would suggest making customizable 'neutral' ships, not unlike players ships; make a few basic frames, and a bunch of parts to hang off them. The parts don't all need to be completely unique, slightly modified parts off of existing ships would probably do for some of it. Add some 'alien' hull materials, maybe make deflector and nacelle glowy separate variables for the sake of variety; that sort of thing.

    In keeping with my earlier suggestions, I would suggest that the game remember what a particular species was flying when they were encountered by the player, for the sake of consistency; some sort of code attached to the player character. Player encountered species x, with ship configuration 2, components 7 1 4 6, skin 3, etc. So it knows what to put that species in if the player runs into them again.
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    WE absolutely need a better diplomatic help the planet series of missions in explore systems,tried starting a new toon, couldn't complete "the needs of the many" at all. Stayed in there for an hour trying to get one to popup.

    Also, I would love for the "defend yourself" thing to be revamped, I'm sorry but they wouldn't just pop out of nowhere without some cloaking technology and the races this happens with do not have that tech so I'd be able to see them as a science ship most especially considering out sensor arrays are supposed to be that much better.
  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Lets not redo the Explore Sector system - this is a dead horse.

    Exploration for me means Discovery of new stuffs. I want to go through the wormhole at DS9 and end up in an area of space without a map! Let me discover and map planets as I explore the area of space like a traditional MMO map (grayed out areas on the map). Each planet needs to be alive with a different species story to explore. The areas of space needs to be a large sector grid of 20x20 explore sectors square. I can put up with sector hopping if the exploration system is good.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    WE absolutely need a better diplomatic help the planet series of missions in explore systems,tried starting a new toon, couldn't complete "the needs of the many" at all. Stayed in there for an hour trying to get one to popup.

    Also, I would love for the "defend yourself" thing to be revamped, I'm sorry but they wouldn't just pop out of nowhere without some cloaking technology and the races this happens with do not have that tech so I'd be able to see them as a science ship most especially considering out sensor arrays are supposed to be that much better.

    Agreed, and agreed.
    jkstocbr wrote: »
    Lets not redo the Explore Sector system - this is a dead horse.

    Exploration for me means Discovery of new stuffs. I want to go through the wormhole at DS9 and end up in an area of space without a map! Let me discover and map planets as I explore the area of space like a traditional MMO map (grayed out areas on the map). Each planet needs to be alive with a different species story to explore. The areas of space needs to be a large sector grid of 20x20 explore sectors square. I can put up with sector hopping if the exploration system is good.

    A story for every planet would be a lot of work, and there would never be enough of them to keep us occupied. I agree with your general sentiment here, but if exploration is supposed to be more-or-less endlessly repeatable content, then surely we would need something that can be turned out in bulk (so to speak)?


    Well, anyway...

    Suggestion 8

    Expanding on the idea behind Suggestion 7, it'd be nice if the lesser powers of the galaxy weren't all using the same 'off the shelf' gear as the major factions. I have no idea if this is possible in STO, but suppose it were possible to assemble unique weapons from an assortment of common parts.

    Say, for example, there were 10 barrels, 10 shoulder stocks, 10 scopes, and so on, and these components could be thrown together any which way to produce all new weapons. I suppose there could be corresponding parts for each weapon type, so that designing a rifle would also design an assault weapon and a pistol to match. Maybe with a few optional, decorative, bits a pieces to help spread the material out a little. Maybe a variety of different skins that can be applied to them too.

    It might be a good bit of work to pull off; but once it were done, new sets of weapons could be assembled in minutes, making giving each race a unique look a simple (and quick) matter.

    A selection of armour like tailor options for them would help too; the addition of body armour sections, or tactical gear, could make most costume choices look a bit more martial. If it worked, it would make it easier to assemble an outfit that looked like a military uniform, so they don't have to look so same-y.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I would love to be able to make exploration missions in the Foundry, which then come up at random in Exploration Clusters. I know some people don't like Foundry missions, so there could be a setting where they can "disable" Foundry missions in Exploration Clusters and just play the randomly-generated ones like the ones suggested here.
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  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I would love to be able to make exploration missions in the Foundry, which then come up at random in Exploration Clusters. I know some people don't like Foundry missions, so there could be a setting where they can "disable" Foundry missions in Exploration Clusters and just play the randomly-generated ones like the ones suggested here.

    I vaguely recall Dan talking about something like that once, so they may well be planning to do just that.

    So long as it is special exploration foundry content like you suggest, which would exist alongside dev created exploration content, then that could be fantastic. If it is just general foundry content, which could order you right back out of wherever you are trying to explore every time you go in, then it simply wouldn't make sense. So I do hope that Dan wasn't thinking of just making exploration zones nothing more than elaborate foundry portals.
  • haravikkharavikk Member Posts: 278
    edited March 2013
    capnmanx wrote: »
    A story for every planet would be a lot of work, and there would never be enough of them to keep us occupied. I agree with your general sentiment here, but if exploration is supposed to be more-or-less endlessly repeatable content, then surely we would need something that can be turned out in bulk (so to speak)?
    Hmm, I wonder if they could create proper exploration instances; these would be huge areas full of randomly generated content (at the time of their creation), representing just a single sector of an entire unexplored expanse or nebula.

    Players work together (or just sporadically) slowly map out the area and uncover every planet and random encounter in the instance. Once the instance has been significantly explored a new one is created.

    So when you enter say the Delta Volanis Cluster, you would be given a grid of sectors to choose from, each displaying the percentage they've been explored by. Generally you will pick ones that haven't been fully explored, but you may go back to some in order to follow-up missions. These would need to be time limited so that instances can eventually be deleted to make way for new ones.

    This might give a better sense of actual exploration as you go into a sector that others have started exploring, and starting finding new stuff of your own to map and interact with. It might be nice to see some proper phenomenon mapping/analysis mini-games mixed in, not the "fly to position X and hit scan" but trying to different types of analysis in a science lab on your ship to determine what a nebula is comprised of, could also have some good potential for random scenarios such as contamination on your ship, long dormant Iconian virus etc.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    haravikk wrote: »
    Hmm, I wonder if they could create proper exploration instances; these would be huge areas full of randomly generated content (at the time of their creation), representing just a single sector of an entire unexplored expanse or nebula.

    Players work together (or just sporadically) slowly map out the area and uncover every planet and random encounter in the instance. Once the instance has been significantly explored a new one is created.

    So when you enter say the Delta Volanis Cluster, you would be given a grid of sectors to choose from, each displaying the percentage they've been explored by. Generally you will pick ones that haven't been fully explored, but you may go back to some in order to follow-up missions. These would need to be time limited so that instances can eventually be deleted to make way for new ones.

    This might give a better sense of actual exploration as you go into a sector that others have started exploring, and starting finding new stuff of your own to map and interact with. It might be nice to see some proper phenomenon mapping/analysis mini-games mixed in, not the "fly to position X and hit scan" but trying to different types of analysis in a science lab on your ship to determine what a nebula is comprised of, could also have some good potential for random scenarios such as contamination on your ship, long dormant Iconian virus etc.

    So you're thinking persistent (for a time) randomly generated zones, rather than ones made fresh every time you go in? Intriguing. I could get behind an idea like that; though I'd prefer it if there were a way to hid the presence of other players I wasn't teamed up with. I'm a little tired of the crowds in the exploration zones; makes things feel too busy to be unexplored space.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Suggestion 9

    The thrill of exploration comes, not just from what you might find, but also from what might find you. The exploration zones, as they are now, don't have much in the way of atmosphere; there's no tension, and no sense of danger. Going exploring should be exciting and a little bit scary.

    I would suggest firstly that they be made darker, cloudier, and creepier places. Areas of space that have not been fully explored because people generally prefer to go around them; rather than risk getting lost or ambushed in a dense nebula hardly anyone ever visits. This would particularly make sense for exploration areas close to the main factions core territories; it's hard to rationalize there being a big patch of unexplored space right next door to Sol.

    I would also suggest that effects be added to add to the atmosphere. Intermittent sensor contacts, strange signals, ghost ships, etc. Very occasionally, there should even be attacks; with enemy ships, or strange space critters, coming out of the fog to pursue us. Perhaps make it possible to lose the pursuers in the fog (if you are quick), so that a fight is not inevitable.

    More atmosphere would also be desirable on the planets (so to speak). LV-426 was a pretty boring pile of rocks if you think about it; but the howling winds, the storms, and the dull grey light, added quite a bit of tension to the Nostromo's visit (OK, an alien spider with abandonment issues helped a bit, but...). Not saying that all the atmosphere should be bad, scary, tense, atmosphere; but a little wouldn't hurt. A few exploration worlds which require environment suits might add a little something too.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Suggestion 10

    This is simply my opinion, but I don't believe that anyone has ever tried the exploration content in STO for the challenge. The fights in the existing exploration missions are a pain; 'kill 5 enemy squadrons' kind of stuff that takes far too long, and feel far too grindy. This is true for both the space and the ground missions.

    I would suggest that in any future exploration content, the number of enemies be kept to a minimum. This is, after all, us doing the whole 'To boldly go where no one has gone before' thing; and it seems to me that this is where the encounters should be a little more like the shows, where the 'enemy of the week' was usually represented by a single ship.

    To make things more interesting, I'd also suggest there be fewer missions where fighting is the whole point; and more missions where it's something that just comes up while we are doing something else.

    For example:

    We go to investigate an anomaly of some kind. We launch a few probes, take a few readings; then an alien science ship shows up to investigate the same thing, and isn't willing to share the discovery. There's a fight, we win, and we finish our investigation.

    Maybe the enemy ship could even survive the battle, if a little worse for wear; that'd make a nice change. :)

    This could, perhaps, tie into Suggestion 1; with an enemy maybe showing up, or maybe not. Maybe holding a grudge and showing up again in some other mission; or again, maybe not.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Suggestion 11

    Critters. I quite like the critters in STO; however, there aren't all that many of them. I assume that the creation process isn't all that speedy. A galaxy's worth of unique alien creatures is unlikely to ever happen.

    What if new critters could be made as easily as player characters though?

    A selection of templates, such as serpentine, biped, quadruped, etc. A variety of body parts to go with each one. A selection of skins, like long fur, short fur, fine scales, large scales, armoured, or feathered; with strategically placed dense patches, to cover up any gaps or odd joins which may result from being assembled from parts that don't really go together well.

    Then optional bits like horns, tusks, beaks, spikes, wings (perhaps unlocking a 'flying critter' option). Then nice, broad, colour palette to finish.

    It would make the populating of strange new worlds with unique creatures a fairly quick process; resulting in fewer empty wildernesses. It would also make a nice addition to the foundry I guess (assuming it doesn't already have functionality like that; I really must try out the foundry someday).

    ...

    Of course, for all I know, it already works a bit like this; in which case my suggestion just becomes 'Make more critters!'.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Got some more. :)

    Suggestion 12

    Thinking about Doff assignment chains gave me an idea. Linked chains of short missions, that may be randomly encountered in exploration zones; maybe in a specific zone, or maybe spread over a selection of exploration zones (for example, some shadowy threat beyond Romulan space, might involve all of the exploration zones which border Romulan space).

    It would almost be like watered down FE series'; except that finding these missions would be a matter of random chance.

    They could be anything really. A series of encounters with a machine race determined to wipe out all organic life, leading up to a search for their point of origin to either destroy them at the source, or convince them that organics 'aren't so bad really'. An archaeological expedition which uncovers clues that a race previously thought extinct was actually alive and well; eventually leading to a first contact situation. The discovery of destroyed planets, suggesting at the existence of another Doomsday Machine; then an attempt to find it and stop it before it reaches any inhabited systems.

    They need not be big and complicated things; just tell a little story that doesn't fit in anywhere else.

    Suggestion 13

    Speaking of the Doff system, what if there were certain events that were triggered by completing enough Doff assignments of a particular type, in a particular zone?

    For example, if you've set up x number of trade routes into the region, perhaps the local races decide to try forming trading alliance; and you get invited to mediate at the negotiations. Or if you have helped establish x number of new colonies in the region, you then get asked to assist with establishing a new Starbase or outpost; so that Starfleet can provide security for those colonies.

    It would further the sense that the players are actually making a difference by their actions; helping create the illusion that what they do out on the frontier is having some lasting effect on the game setting.



    Now, I just wanted to take a moment to explain some of my thinking when it comes to exploration content.

    What I'd really like to see here is content that is technically 'repeatable', but allows each player to come away with his or her own story to tell.

    'What did you get up to today?'

    'Well, I explored some ancient ruins full of man eating bugs, made friends with a rather attractive pirate lady, and saved a planet from a giant space amoeba. You?'

    'Had a running battle across three systems with some low-tech Cylon wannabes, made first contact with a race of orange conjoined twins who argue a lot, and narrowly avoided getting married to a tribal chieftain's daughter by this much .'

    'Was she pretty?'

    'Not really.'

    It would be better than just complaining about grind whenever we compare notes, yes?
  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The first, and most important, thing to look at for a revamp of the exploration system is the rewards structure. Let's make it something people will want to do, then we can look at making it better. In it's current state I could actually see myself blowing an hour or two in the exploration clusters every few days but for one major issue: lack of rewards.

    Currently you have a wrapper mission on a 24 hour cooldown that gives you a pittance of experience and dilithium and a 30 minute repeataple for each cluster that gives a pittance of experience and nothing else.

    I've talked with a few people in my fleet and they were in general agreement that scrapping the 24 hour repeatable and giving the 30 minute repeatable a dilithium reward of something like 480 or 500 would be a step in the right direction. Alternately, leave the wrapper and add a reward box, such as the one that used to be attached to the foundry daily wrapper way back when, to the repeatables. Something besides experience so that you've got a reason to want to run the missions.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    canis36 wrote: »
    The first, and most important, thing to look at for a revamp of the exploration system is the rewards structure. Let's make it something people will want to do, then we can look at making it better. In it's current state I could actually see myself blowing an hour or two in the exploration clusters every few days but for one major issue: lack of rewards.

    Currently you have a wrapper mission on a 24 hour cooldown that gives you a pittance of experience and dilithium and a 30 minute repeataple for each cluster that gives a pittance of experience and nothing else.

    I've talked with a few people in my fleet and they were in general agreement that scrapping the 24 hour repeatable and giving the 30 minute repeatable a dilithium reward of something like 480 or 500 would be a step in the right direction. Alternately, leave the wrapper and add a reward box, such as the one that used to be attached to the foundry daily wrapper way back when, to the repeatables. Something besides experience so that you've got a reason to want to run the missions.

    That seems reasonable to me. Enough to take you up the refinement limit if you spent your gaming day just exploring, but not enough to be exploitable.

    I hadn't given rewards much thought myself; since, deep down, I suspect any revamp of the rewards would lead to 'exploration reputation' or similar. Didn't really want to dwell on that. :P
  • thisisoverlordthisisoverlord Member Posts: 949 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Actually the most important thing is assessing whether the engine they have is able to create an exploration system that is worth playing.

    That means random mission generation that provides some variation and replay value.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djPxN9sEufQ

    Something with the variation of infinite dungeons would be awesome, but I think beyond the capabilities of this engine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    #2311#2700#2316#2500
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Actually the most important thing is assessing whether the engine they have is able to create an exploration system that is worth playing.

    That means random mission generation that provides some variation and replay value.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djPxN9sEufQ

    Something with the variation of infinite dungeons would be awesome, but I think beyond the capabilities of this engine.

    I don't know if they can do that or not; but, before launch, I remember the devs saying they were using procedural generation to speed up the process of making exploration content. I believe stuff they made that way still had to go through an approval/finishing process before being included in the game though.

    It's based on that that I suggested the customizable ships, weapons, and critters; even if they can't generate those things on the fly, just having those tools would still greatly accelerate the process of making new and unique (sort of) stuff in large quantities.
  • thisisoverlordthisisoverlord Member Posts: 949 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    capnmanx wrote: »
    I don't know if they can do that or not; but, before launch, I remember the devs saying they were using procedural generation to speed up the process of making exploration content. I believe stuff they made that way still had to go through an approval/finishing process before being included in the game though.

    It's based on that that I suggested the customizable ships, weapons, and critters; even if they can't generate those things on the fly, just having those tools would still greatly accelerate the process of making new and unique (sort of) stuff in large quantities.

    It would interesting to see if they could do that, and also do the the same for patrol missions. I think if they could put a beat more meat on the bone so to speak and offer variation and missions that had a little depth of fun to them exploration could work, maybe integrate a rep system that offered passive boosts to engines and sensors something... but pls no extra dil grind :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    #2311#2700#2316#2500
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I would just like a simple /scan command that gives you a randomised list of elements of the space about you. "Twenty particles of space dust per cubic meter, fifty-two ultraviolet radiation spikes, and a class two comet."
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    capnmanx wrote: »
    That seems reasonable to me. Enough to take you up the refinement limit if you spent your gaming day just exploring, but not enough to be exploitable.

    I hadn't given rewards much thought myself; since, deep down, I suspect any revamp of the rewards would lead to 'exploration reputation' or similar. Didn't really want to dwell on that. :P

    It's based entirely on my own experience with the Exploration Cluster missions. They're actually not as bad as most people make them out to be. Yes there's the occasional bug, and yes they could be much, much better, but I think the real reason so few people bother with them is the lack-luster rewards. Improve the rewards and you get more people playing the missions. More people playing the missions will increase interest, both developer and player, for a revamp of the system. Or at least, that's the theory.

    At the very least you know they're probably looking at their metrics, seeing a relatively small number of players spending a relatively small amount of time in the clusters and going "Well, it's nice idea, but nobody's really using them so let's go focus on this instead."

    My own personal want for the Exploration clusters is to have them added to the Foundry as hook-ups for missions so somebody can craft a real exploration mission and hook it up to one of the clusters rather than an existing system and just saying that it's "near this system" in the mission text.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    canis36 wrote: »
    It's based entirely on my own experience with the Exploration Cluster missions. They're actually not as bad as most people make them out to be. Yes there's the occasional bug, and yes they could be much, much better, but I think the real reason so few people bother with them is the lack-luster rewards. Improve the rewards and you get more people playing the missions. More people playing the missions will increase interest, both developer and player, for a revamp of the system. Or at least, that's the theory.

    At the very least you know they're probably looking at their metrics, seeing a relatively small number of players spending a relatively small amount of time in the clusters and going "Well, it's nice idea, but nobody's really using them so let's go focus on this instead."

    My own personal want for the Exploration clusters is to have them added to the Foundry as hook-ups for missions so somebody can craft a real exploration mission and hook it up to one of the clusters rather than an existing system and just saying that it's "near this system" in the mission text.


    The possibility that they might make exploration nothing other than a glorified foundry portal makes me cringe; but so long as it was in addition to a decent amount of dev made content, I'd welcome it. If nothing else, It'd take some of the pressure off the devs, and make revamping exploration seem like a less enormous task; which, of course, could make the whole idea of revamping it less off-putting.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    brigadooom wrote: »
    I would just like a simple /scan command that gives you a randomised list of elements of the space about you. "Twenty particles of space dust per cubic meter, fifty-two ultraviolet radiation spikes, and a class two comet."

    Something like that would make for a nice alternative the the red 'no anomalies' indicator we get if we use the 'scan area' feature after hoovering up all the local data samples.

    On that note, since we do have the scan area feature, do we still need the glowy red icons hanging in space to tell us where they are? It's introduction should have made those ugly things kind of redundant I would have thought.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You have posted some very good and fun ideas here in this tread. I really hope some of the devs. are browsing through and writing down at least some of the ideas.

    Exploration experiences are really lacking in STO. On many ocassions I do the current explore clusters missions, especially on my Fed., just to have a bit of that Trek feel while playing because being a Starfleet member that kills everything around himself gets a little old every now and then. I know most of the current exploration missions are pew-pew anyway, but I always venture with the hope and desire to get that "investigate alien flora", "outreach" missions or such, just for the sake of fun. :P

    Also, a better reward system has been mentioned. I got this idea, with the possibility of exploration revamp mentioned and also the possibility of the crafting system being reworked, why not tie in these 2 revamps together?
    For ex., some of the great ideas you and others already suggested here be implemented in an exploration system that would revard some unique particle traces, artifacts & such. that are obtainable only through exploration of unknown space and then can be used afterwards in crafting unique items that require these elements. I think it would be a big step in making both systems much more desirable and viable.
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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    On another forum, on a discussion of STO's problems, someone mentioned Foundry missions as a replacement for exploration. This was my reply:

    Most Foundry missions are awful, so I don't see that as an implementable solution.

    One thing I think might be neat would be player-interactive versions of the colony chains. So, you'd go through a series of missions, beginning with a system survey, then a planet survey, encounter with random native element, colony site survey, protect colonists from outside threat, chain complete.

    This could be chock full of random elements. The planets could vary from Ice Planet to Vasquez Rocks. The native threat could be a virus, a plant, Space Gorillas, or the weather. If you negotiate with the outside threat, the next mission could be peaceful; if you fight it, the next mission would be a bigger battle.

    If there are a hundred or more random elements for each mission, and if your interactions set the tone of the next link in the chain, it could be a while before this got old.

    *break*

    And while I'm having ideas for exploration, I'd also like to see first contact missions that feel real. This could be done as a chain of missions like the colony chain above, with each step in the first contact process (discovery, surveillance, high-level contact, public contact, conflict, resolution) as its own mission full of random elements, with each mission outcome affecting the tone of the following mission.

    I really think this is do-able, if Cryptic puts some resources into it.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    You have posted some very good and fun ideas here in this tread. I really hope some of the devs. are browsing through and writing down at least some of the ideas.

    Exploration experiences are really lacking in STO. On many ocassions I do the current explore clusters missions, especially on my Fed., just to have a bit of that Trek feel while playing because being a Starfleet member that kills everything around himself gets a little old every now and then. I know most of the current exploration missions are pew-pew anyway, but I always venture with the hope and desire to get that "investigate alien flora", "outreach" missions or such, just for the sake of fun. :P

    Also, a better reward system has been mentioned. I got this idea, with the possibility of exploration revamp mentioned and also the possibility of the crafting system being reworked, why not tie in these 2 revamps together?
    For ex., some of the great ideas you and others already suggested here be implemented in an exploration system that would revard some unique particle traces, artifacts & such. that are obtainable only through exploration of unknown space and then can be used afterwards in crafting unique items that require these elements. I think it would be a big step in making both systems much more desirable and viable.

    Well, thank ye kindly. :)

    I could see that idea working; after all, the last big spike in player interest in exploration went hand in hand with crafting. Doesn't seem like all that long ago my fleet had a weekly 'data sample farming' event; where we'd send teams out to exploration zones to restock the fleet crafters.

    There'd need to be a lot of neat new craftable stuff that can compete with STF and Fleet gear to make it worthwhile; but we have to hope they are planning to do just that (otherwise, what's the point?).
    On another forum, on a discussion of STO's problems, someone mentioned Foundry missions as a replacement for exploration. This was my reply:

    Most Foundry missions are awful, so I don't see that as an implementable solution.

    One thing I think might be neat would be player-interactive versions of the colony chains. So, you'd go through a series of missions, beginning with a system survey, then a planet survey, encounter with random native element, colony site survey, protect colonists from outside threat, chain complete.

    This could be chock full of random elements. The planets could vary from Ice Planet to Vasquez Rocks. The native threat could be a virus, a plant, Space Gorillas, or the weather. If you negotiate with the outside threat, the next mission could be peaceful; if you fight it, the next mission would be a bigger battle.

    If there are a hundred or more random elements for each mission, and if your interactions set the tone of the next link in the chain, it could be a while before this got old.

    *break*

    And while I'm having ideas for exploration, I'd also like to see first contact missions that feel real. This could be done as a chain of missions like the colony chain above, with each step in the first contact process (discovery, surveillance, high-level contact, public contact, conflict, resolution) as its own mission full of random elements, with each mission outcome affecting the tone of the following mission.

    I really think this is do-able, if Cryptic puts some resources into it.

    Agreed. These are exactly the sort of things we could do with.
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm starting to wonder to myself if 'revamp' is necessarily the right word.

    Consider this: if the exploration system had been receiving regular updates (a new mechanic here, a couple of new missions there), would it be in its current state? It's been three years; we could have had a lot of new stuff by now.

    I mean, is there any particular reason that we couldn't get a foundry hook up right now (OK not literally 'right now', but soon), rather than in months or years? Make a special sub-foundry specifically for exploration missions, and add those to what's already there.

    New dev crafted missions could be added as and when; they don't necessarily need to wait for some big update to all be put in at once. Perhaps sometimes, as new and improved content goes in, old content could come out; so that the new stuff isn't lost in the crowd.

    If the exploration sectors themselves got a revamp, that wouldn't necessarily impact the content that can be found in them, would it? It didn't with the sector space revamps anyway. It could be done as a standalone thing.

    They could perhaps even be used as a testing environment. Since typical exploration missions can simply be abandoned without consequence should something go wrong, it probably wouldn't break the game. People would be free to just give up and find a different mission to do.

    This is just me wondering about stuff; but I guess there is a suggestion here.

    Suggestion 14

    Don't try to do everything at once. Tackling it as one big problem is just going to slow things down. Exploration has needed attention for quite a while; no need to wait for Season 10 or 11.
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