You are basicly begging for a Godwin, but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do that...small fleets are a drain and therefore need to go...musn't.....do.....Godwin
Maybe there is a final solution to this issue.......at least I think thats what Marc and Dstahl and a tiny minority of others seem to be suggesting.
Marc you come off as just another blind fanboy (which I have seen many in many of the games forums I have played in) that wants to bash others in a forum topic that has meaning to others. While I can appreciate that you want to defend STO sometimes having a open mind and understand other people concerns with a sudden game changing patch change might get your more sympathy or at lease less people attacking you if you were not attacking them.
Instead you belittle and give knee jerk reactions to other voices in on this topic, which if I might add your attitude towards others remind me of a particular political party I am very familiar with in the way your acting with others right now. Still try to act a bit more civil and not bash people that have legitimate concerns and I certain we can all have a civil discussion on the matter, unless you have nothing insightful to share with us in which case as my mother use to say (if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all).
On the topic is concerns me that cryptic keeps making drastic changes like this patch on the fleet mark for IOR. I am concerned for STO as a whole if they keep making these devastating customer relation decisions, make me wonder where and how STO will be doing a year from now at alone several years.... I can only hope they wisen up before they lose all their customer base to poor decisions like this one.
Interesting, if a little unsettling. It kind of irks me that they depend so much on their numbers and metrics instead of listening to player feedback and opinions. It reminds me of those lines M says in Goldeneye
This is how a modern business works. You look at your customer base, monitor trends, and adapt processes to better achieve your goal of profitability through continuous growth.
You don't do things based solely on a customers verbal feedback. But it guides your data mining efforts to see if what you're saying is valid.
Credit card companies can predict if you'er cheating on your wife based on usage profiles. Political parties know how you can be swayed by which sites you visit (used to great effect last election).
I want a financially profitable STO/PWE. That means more Trek, and potentially more fun. What other Star Trek game has lasted this long? Where are they now?
I second that but only as a SMALL recompense for removing fm's from ior's
to be frank my annoyance is that I almost always play online games with one other player and almost ALWAYS only ever fleet up with that other player.
There is NO alternative in this game for small fleets to obtain starbase upgrades other than grinding the living daylights out of Fleet Events........which give out a scrooge like amount of fm's.
Now before this turns into a rant post....I would just like to ask niceley if you could at least bring fm events more in line with reputation events thus giving a reason to actually actively work on our starbases.
I say this because you must have noticed a trend in large fleets selling access to their fleet ships on an make shift in game black market.
On a last note....I have learnt not to expect any change from posting my views in the STO forum Old and this new one but I thought....what the hell....maybe if enough people said something MAYBE someone in the dev team will take notice.
I would just like to say also that I and my fleet mate have been contemplating lifing up with an lts each.....but tbh this change in fm's for ior's has made us hesitate and wonder if it would be the best use of our money.
Cryptic let's face it.....you get away with a LOT due to Star Trek being so beloved by so many.....but there is a line.....is this it? I don't know....
Does anybody find it odd that we still haven't heard anything on how Cryptic plans to respond to the overwhelming forum response not in favor of this fleet marks change? Frankly, I'm surprised at the intransigent position Dan is taking against small fleets basically saying that tailoring the resource requirements to the fleet size would require too many rules and regulations so therefore we should just be patient and wait for something like fleet mergers? And, on the topic of a fleet merger mechanic, we don't even know if that is a feature that is coming soon. I doubt it will. So small fleets are again thrown under the bus because we can't have the high fleet mark rewards the prior IOR missions were giving us and b/c Cryptic is too lazy to pro-rate project requirements for smaller fleets. There has to be a better solution than this. Come on...
LOL sorry but i just wanted to tell you that you are hot!!!!!!!!
In what context? Are you taking my temperature? Are we at a bar singing karaoke songs together? Are you watching me hold an ice cube that is melting in my hand? Clarify!
This reminds me of the million account thing ages back. I'm sure you remember it.
If you actually start crunching the numbers on that two million captains claim they made assuming even 5% of those captains were gold members or lifers, and what it would mean financially... it gets into "cannot pass a giggle test" pretty fast.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
No way I'm reading 69 pages. But the tone of opinion was clear from the first few.
I'm rather annoyed at this change - it is already having a big impact on my toons fleets, but will try to be objective.
I think an important lesson to be learnt here is that if you take something away from your customer base without replacing it, then all you will do is annoy them.
A vague promise that you will look at fleet marks again in future isn't really enough. If you are going to make a change like this - have its replacement feature (more FM queue events, higher rewards, etc) ready. Otherwise it alienates a large chunk of the consumer base, and comes across as bad management style - making a seemingly poorly thought out knee jerk change.
To give an example, I was a user of the 'foundry console 1-click mission' exploit, and used it to rake in Dil. I was annoyed when you took that option away, but accepted it when you then reduced cooldown on IOR - a fair trade-off.
The changes you have made may well put more Dil in people's hands (taking your statement at face value), but you have taken away what is probably the main source of fleet marks for people - and not provided an alternate means.
This is how a modern business works. You look at your customer base, monitor trends, and adapt processes to better achieve your goal of profitability through continuous growth.
You don't do things based solely on a customers verbal feedback. But it guides your data mining efforts to see if what you're saying is valid.
Credit card companies can predict if you'er cheating on your wife based on usage profiles. Political parties know how you can be swayed by which sites you visit (used to great effect last election).
I want a financially profitable STO/PWE. That means more Trek, and potentially more fun. What other Star Trek game has lasted this long? Where are they now?
Admiral Thrax
You are of course correct. I remember flicking through a report from a market research agency ages ago, the data is so accurate it's scary. A database of information knows how I think even better than I do.
You are basicly begging for a Godwin, but I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to do that...small fleets are a drain and therefore need to go...musn't.....do.....Godwin
Does anybody find it odd that we still haven't heard anything on how Cryptic plans to respond to the overwhelming forum response not in favor of this fleet marks change? Frankly, I'm surprised at the intransigent position Dan is taking against small fleets basically saying that tailoring the resource requirements to the fleet size would require too many rules and regulations so therefore we should just be patient and wait for something like fleet mergers? And, on the topic of a fleet merger mechanic, we don't even know if that is a feature that is coming soon. I doubt it will. So small fleets are again thrown under the bus because we can't have the high fleet mark rewards the prior IOR missions were giving us and b/c Cryptic is too lazy to pro-rate project requirements for smaller fleets. There has to be a better solution than this. Come on...
Were you around for STF-gate at the beginning of S7? Stahl was exactly the same way then too.
And, on the topic of a fleet merger mechanic, we don't even know if that is a feature that is coming soon.
I woudl rather quit the game entirely than lose my fleet of friends to a merger or join a facelessfleet.
Which I guess is something Stahl is tellingme I should do. In an industry glutted with entertainment optionsfrom other f2p games, quality b2p games like GW2 and TSW and a Steamaccount full of to-dos, it is a boldstance to tell people to take it or leaveit.
First of all, please forgive the length of this post.
Secondly, thank you for this disclosure. Whether or not we agree/disagree with you, I think you'll find that communicating with the player (a.k.a. customer) base will net you better responses, avoid hard feelings and, let's just be frank, keep you from losing your customer "cash cow."
Having said that, here are some observations regarding your post in this thread:
Due to the fact that Fleet Marks are spent by Fleets to advance Fleet Holdings, it is intended that Fleet Marks are to be rewarded for completing Fleet-based gameplay.
Certainly; I think most have no issue with this, regardless of Fleet standing (Tier, size, etc.).
We monitor the amount of Fleet Marks earned by each character and each player every day. We do so for game design reasons to ensure that the amount of progress Fleets are making on Fleet Holdings is as expected.
However, this is a bold statement. Really? Every player? Every character? Every day? Come on...if that was the case, you'd never get anything else done.
After the release of Season 7, we noticed that the amount of Fleet Marks players were earning per day started declining. As we expected, it was mostly due to the introduction of new content and the new Reputation system. Players were now spending less time in missions that granted Fleet Marks, and more time in missions that granted Dilithium and Rep Marks.
While I agree that the new content and the "ooh, SHINEY!" of it all certainly had a significant impact, I will also posit that the other major reason, likely on even or better footing, was that by the time S7 arrived, we were so VERY tired of grinding to open the ability to grind to open the unlock to grind for the ability to pay out extraordinary amounts of resources to obtain mediocre items or other unlocks. Especially since, by then, we'd expended the majority of our collective resources, and we were looking for something, ANYTHING, else to do other than all that came with the intro of Starbases in S6! That is, of course, until we realized that the Rep system was just as much grind and at as much expense. And it wasn't until there was a tremendous outpouring of anger and outrage at all the Dil cuts, extreme cost in DOffs and other resources, and so on, that you graciously decided to reduce costs and increase (back to normal or thereabouts, I might add) Dil drops from missions and access to more abundant sources.
...will begin adjusting where Fleet Marks are granted to keep Fleet Marks in line with our Fleet gameplay goals.
Now, here's where I can say I am peeved personally, and that several members of my Fleet and, in talking to folks from other Fleets, other players out there also are annoyed or even angered by; can you hear yourselves: "OURFleet gameplay goals?" I think I remember reading in several posts that your goals were to create a system to enhance the PLAYER's enjoyment of the game and the PLAYER's/CUSTOMER's overall goals for their Fleets? I have noted in several threads so far that players are annoyed by the fact that you are TELLING them how to play, rather than creating an environment wherein THEY decide how to play.
The drawback is that because Fleet sizes range so much, we had to find a balance so that Large Fleets had some challenge, while still allowing small Fleets to achieve all tiers, albeit at a much slower pace. If you are in a Fleet less than 25 players, then it is expected to be more challenging than the norm...
...The end result of this decision is that smaller Fleets may achieve maximum Starbase sizes, but it is expected to be much harder. You can achieve all tiers, but you are doing so at a great disadvantage, especially if you are under 25 Fleet Members or your Fleet Members don't play at least three times a week.
OK, again, no real problem here, at least with the theory behind it. The problems I do see are a) you are, again, telling folks how to play - for example, not everyone has three times a week to play and, b) not everyone enjoys the impersonal association with a Fleet whose members, by and large, don't know each other. Sure, they can hit those higher Tiers much quicker than small Fleets can, by leaps and bounds, in fact. But, there's still that/those person or persons at "the top" who make decisions based on their own whims or by the whims of a set few who can axe a player arbitrarily, make calls on behalf of a large group, the largest percentage of which they don't know on any level, and so on.
No thanks. While I realize this is an MMO and, as such is, by default, a "social" game, I have no more interest in "socializing" with a group of strangers in-game than I do in the real world. And, once again, if you are expecting players, however inadvertently you might be doing so, to socialize with other players, because, if they don't, they don't "get the goods," you are, once again, telling people how to play.
Our Fleet consists of 18 players (as of yesterday, anyway - there were 20). We know each other: each other's names, the names of our spouses/significant others and children, what the others do for a living, and so on. We play together in other games. We have a common play ethic and rules of conduct, and we work hard together. None of us want to merge with a bunch of strangers, or bring in new people simply so we can reach the finish line faster; wouldn't be comfortable or fair, especially since we would, in essence, just be using people for our own goals. That said, and we have not hit T2 yet because we are slowly, but surely, going broke from all the resource outpour, no matter how hard we grind. So we are at a DISTINCT disadvantage.
I will say one thing, however, we are ROLLING in the Fleet Credits! Of course, that can be a downside to larger Fleets, too: yeah you get access to the T5 stuff, but you can't afford it! One of our Fleet members, a younger kid, asked to be released to join another Fleet, a "mega-Fleet," because he felt we were going too slowly, and he wanted more "stuff." He's a little over-eager in other games, too, but we wished him well, and said "sure." Initially, because he had a large amount of credits, he reported back all the new shineys he was getting. Until he ran out. Then, he reported, he wasn't earning anything because he could barely donate a handful of Marks - the projects were always full, since so many were contributing. When that Fleet hit T4, he never had enough Fleet credits or Dil to buy anything, and very quickly lost interest. He's back with us now and, although we are moving like snails toward the upper Tiers, he is much happier because he knows everyone, and is able to actually gain resources he'll be able to put to use, now or later.
The bottom line here is that there is A LOT of diversity in the style of play, availability of play time, overall goals, and methods of groups and individuals, a great many of whom are paying customers, and by reducing access to resources and currencies (and everything seems to be an in-game currency anymore) to tailor things to the way YOU think they should be done, is telling this diverse group that there is really only one route "to the top:" your way, or no way. I don't think anyone (or, at least, not the majority of the player base) is looking for the easy way out, and I think we all know that fewer workers increases the difficulty and slows the rate of progress. But, let US decide what works FOR US and what doesn't, and let us play the way we want to play. We lost two players since the Marks were taken from the IOR missions - they at least had something else than the 'same-'ol-same-'ol' Fleet Missions to play, and had already begun to wear down from exhaustion of resources and interest.
This is a great game and, by and large, you all do a fantastic job, but sometimes it seems you lose sight of the forest for the trees - you're the Devs, and you've the game plan, staff and, ultimately, the call, but it does seem like you're more focused on the mechanics of things than the people they benefit. Just one player's observations. Thanks for your time.
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Were you around for STF-gate at the beginning of S7? Stahl was exactly the same way then too.
Yes, but he did eventually come up with a solution. Wasn't it that the loot drops were increased for STF's and the dilithium went up from 480 to 960 for elites? Can't remember now.
Edit: I think he will put fleet marks into the main storyline missions and other types of missions like diplomacy stuff and possibly STF's, but it needs to happen pronto. I know I won't be logging into STO again until this and the can't assign boffs glitch is fixed.
If you actually start crunching the numbers on that two million captains claim they made assuming even 5% of those captains were gold members or lifers, and what it would mean financially... it gets into "cannot pass a giggle test" pretty fast.
Not sure what you're referring to here, I have a feeling its the fact text can not convey a emotion well.
I do not enjoy bashing dev decisions for the sake of it, however when it is justified by a (bad) decision made by the devs themselves it is necessary.
Exactly!
What's the phrase? Haters gonna hate?
Only we don't - many, many of us love this game, love Trek and want STO to be around for many years to come.
We want to give the Devs our money but only if they deserve it.
STO's had a painful transition from P2P to F2P and the dream of a real Star Trek game that pays faithful homage to the shows and movies has disappeared under the barrage of money-making schemes that PWE has brought to this game.
The core game, the STO that I'm still fond of is the same game it was when STO was still P2P - almost everything that's been added since then has angered the player-base in one way or another or perhaps just added nothing of real value.
STO is rife with missed opportunities and the only reason it's still around is the loyalty of the fans and some gems of original design that shine through under the grind and the theme-parks and the Epohhs.
If this weren't a Star Trek game, I wouldn't be here - what Cryptic's offering in terms of vision, leadership, quality assurance and value-for-money simply isn't worth it.
Cryptic doesn't owe me anything - and neither do I owe them - I re-evaluate my decision to withhold my money from this game with every new patch and change and since October last year they've done nothing to entice me to be a paying customer again - they have however, done plenty to reassure me that ceasing to pay them was the correct thing to do.
Maybe I just haven't played enough MMOs, but never, in all my experience have I seen a company so arrogant and blinkered to the opinions of its customers.
We need a solution implemented now... not in 3 months! Fleet marks should be added to any teamed activity or group play map like deep space encounters, fleet actions, pvp, stfs but people had been saying this all along. Dilithium should be added to every mission played in the game even if its small amounts.
Yes, but he did eventually come up with a solution. Wasn't it that the loot drops were increased for STF's and the dilithium went up from 480 to 960 for elites? Can't remember now.
No. It was the wholesale reversal of his unilateral decision to entirely rip out dilithium and loot from STFs in their entirety, after lying to the entire playerbase by saying, two days (might have been three days) prior to S7 launching by saying that STF payouts wouldn't be adversely affected by S7.
Yes, but he did eventually come up with a solution. Wasn't it that the loot drops were increased for STF's and the dilithium went up from 480 to 960 for elites? Can't remember now.
It was more than at the beginning of S7 but less than previously...overall itwas still a nerf, just done in a sneaky way.
i can only say that i don't bother with that "officer of the watch" daily, because it is simply too much effort for the 5 marks to fly all the way from ESD to the base.
in fact i don't even bother doing it when i go there to do the DOff CXP 2 FM Commendation Reports.
5 marks are just... not worth bothering at all.
Not if the project you are starring at wants 20000 marks from you.
for 50 Marks... i guess i would do it every now and then... at least when i'm at the base anyway.
No. It was the wholesale reversal of his unilateral decision to entirely rip out dilithium and loot from STFs in their entirety.
Yes, true. He did entirely reverse his decision to rip it out, but the end result was 980 for elites and loot drops were increased. However, the loot droops are really bad. I only get very rare purples drops every 1 in 7 STF's, on average. Sometimes, I don't even get any loot. Maybe random fleet mark drops for perfectly done missions is what we need for STF's and rommie azure nebula and break tholian web. What do you think?
It was more than at the beginning of S7 but less than previously...overall itwas still a nerf, just done in a sneaky way.
I feel your pain. Believe me. Does Cryptic seriously think earning some silly STF accolade for completing 100 or so STF's is gong to make up for the drop from 1440 to 960. Ha!
Larger fleets have members that have less to do due to numbers in the fleet. Smaller fleets have more to deal with as each member has more to contribute. So how the hell are these players meant to now contribute FM's?
Balanced Mr Stahl? I think not. If you are expecting small fleets to merger that isn't going to happen. Please replace FM's as soon as possible, that also means not in three months time but next week will do fine thanks.
We can't continue at the moment due to the huge amounts of fleet marks required and virtually no way to earn them due to the paltry amounts you can now earn.
Want to alienate your paying customers? Keep going as this is all you're achieving :mad:
Founder of the 3rd Foot & Mouth Federation Fleet. Join today!
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts! Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible! The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Wow what a completely asinine and insane post. No MMO in their right mind would ever restrict guilds to be that small, it is always in the hundreds. You choose to be in a small fleet and accept the challenges that come with it so you can avoid some of the challenges of being in a large fleet like politics, deciding fair way to share provisions, managing large events, and generally keeping so many members happy. You made that choice now deal with it.
Your small fleet isn't unlocking shipyard tiers fast enough, and even if it did doesn't have a lot of people that will be buying modules compared to large fleets with t4 shipyards. WHich is why large fleets are better for cryptic anyway.
Just an fyi: the first fleet in the game to hit Tier 5 shipyard did it a few weeks ago and it was a 2 man fleet.
It'd be very elitist to think you are somehow better than every other fleet.
Comments
Maybe there is a final solution to this issue.......at least I think thats what Marc and Dstahl and a tiny minority of others seem to be suggesting.
Instead you belittle and give knee jerk reactions to other voices in on this topic, which if I might add your attitude towards others remind me of a particular political party I am very familiar with in the way your acting with others right now. Still try to act a bit more civil and not bash people that have legitimate concerns and I certain we can all have a civil discussion on the matter, unless you have nothing insightful to share with us in which case as my mother use to say (if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all).
On the topic is concerns me that cryptic keeps making drastic changes like this patch on the fleet mark for IOR. I am concerned for STO as a whole if they keep making these devastating customer relation decisions, make me wonder where and how STO will be doing a year from now at alone several years.... I can only hope they wisen up before they lose all their customer base to poor decisions like this one.
This is how a modern business works. You look at your customer base, monitor trends, and adapt processes to better achieve your goal of profitability through continuous growth.
You don't do things based solely on a customers verbal feedback. But it guides your data mining efforts to see if what you're saying is valid.
Credit card companies can predict if you'er cheating on your wife based on usage profiles. Political parties know how you can be swayed by which sites you visit (used to great effect last election).
I want a financially profitable STO/PWE. That means more Trek, and potentially more fun. What other Star Trek game has lasted this long? Where are they now?
Admiral Thrax
to be frank my annoyance is that I almost always play online games with one other player and almost ALWAYS only ever fleet up with that other player.
There is NO alternative in this game for small fleets to obtain starbase upgrades other than grinding the living daylights out of Fleet Events........which give out a scrooge like amount of fm's.
Now before this turns into a rant post....I would just like to ask niceley if you could at least bring fm events more in line with reputation events thus giving a reason to actually actively work on our starbases.
I say this because you must have noticed a trend in large fleets selling access to their fleet ships on an make shift in game black market.
On a last note....I have learnt not to expect any change from posting my views in the STO forum Old and this new one but I thought....what the hell....maybe if enough people said something MAYBE someone in the dev team will take notice.
I would just like to say also that I and my fleet mate have been contemplating lifing up with an lts each.....but tbh this change in fm's for ior's has made us hesitate and wonder if it would be the best use of our money.
Cryptic let's face it.....you get away with a LOT due to Star Trek being so beloved by so many.....but there is a line.....is this it? I don't know....
Please fix this....
LOL sorry but i just wanted to tell you that you are hot!!!!!!!!
Tell me this, is the infographic based on per character, or per account?
That matters, a bunch. My fleet has 50 characters in it. but not 50 members.
That to me is the big question. I don't think we'll get an answer to it, however it would be nice to know.
This reminds me of the million account thing ages back. I'm sure you remember it.
In what context? Are you taking my temperature? Are we at a bar singing karaoke songs together? Are you watching me hold an ice cube that is melting in my hand? Clarify!
If you actually start crunching the numbers on that two million captains claim they made assuming even 5% of those captains were gold members or lifers, and what it would mean financially... it gets into "cannot pass a giggle test" pretty fast.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I'm rather annoyed at this change - it is already having a big impact on my toons fleets, but will try to be objective.
I think an important lesson to be learnt here is that if you take something away from your customer base without replacing it, then all you will do is annoy them.
A vague promise that you will look at fleet marks again in future isn't really enough. If you are going to make a change like this - have its replacement feature (more FM queue events, higher rewards, etc) ready. Otherwise it alienates a large chunk of the consumer base, and comes across as bad management style - making a seemingly poorly thought out knee jerk change.
To give an example, I was a user of the 'foundry console 1-click mission' exploit, and used it to rake in Dil. I was annoyed when you took that option away, but accepted it when you then reduced cooldown on IOR - a fair trade-off.
The changes you have made may well put more Dil in people's hands (taking your statement at face value), but you have taken away what is probably the main source of fleet marks for people - and not provided an alternate means.
You are of course correct. I remember flicking through a report from a market research agency ages ago, the data is so accurate it's scary. A database of information knows how I think even better than I do.
It's just wishful thinking on my part I suppose.
Misread post. :P
Were you around for STF-gate at the beginning of S7? Stahl was exactly the same way then too.
*My* attitude towards small fleets?? Do me a favour and scroll up, I'll eagerly await your edit.:rolleyes:
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I woudl rather quit the game entirely than lose my fleet of friends to a merger or join a facelessfleet.
Which I guess is something Stahl is tellingme I should do. In an industry glutted with entertainment optionsfrom other f2p games, quality b2p games like GW2 and TSW and a Steamaccount full of to-dos, it is a boldstance to tell people to take it or leaveit.
Secondly, thank you for this disclosure. Whether or not we agree/disagree with you, I think you'll find that communicating with the player (a.k.a. customer) base will net you better responses, avoid hard feelings and, let's just be frank, keep you from losing your customer "cash cow."
Having said that, here are some observations regarding your post in this thread:
Certainly; I think most have no issue with this, regardless of Fleet standing (Tier, size, etc.).
However, this is a bold statement. Really? Every player? Every character? Every day? Come on...if that was the case, you'd never get anything else done.
While I agree that the new content and the "ooh, SHINEY!" of it all certainly had a significant impact, I will also posit that the other major reason, likely on even or better footing, was that by the time S7 arrived, we were so VERY tired of grinding to open the ability to grind to open the unlock to grind for the ability to pay out extraordinary amounts of resources to obtain mediocre items or other unlocks. Especially since, by then, we'd expended the majority of our collective resources, and we were looking for something, ANYTHING, else to do other than all that came with the intro of Starbases in S6! That is, of course, until we realized that the Rep system was just as much grind and at as much expense. And it wasn't until there was a tremendous outpouring of anger and outrage at all the Dil cuts, extreme cost in DOffs and other resources, and so on, that you graciously decided to reduce costs and increase (back to normal or thereabouts, I might add) Dil drops from missions and access to more abundant sources.
Now, here's where I can say I am peeved personally, and that several members of my Fleet and, in talking to folks from other Fleets, other players out there also are annoyed or even angered by; can you hear yourselves: "OUR Fleet gameplay goals?" I think I remember reading in several posts that your goals were to create a system to enhance the PLAYER's enjoyment of the game and the PLAYER's/CUSTOMER's overall goals for their Fleets? I have noted in several threads so far that players are annoyed by the fact that you are TELLING them how to play, rather than creating an environment wherein THEY decide how to play.
OK, again, no real problem here, at least with the theory behind it. The problems I do see are a) you are, again, telling folks how to play - for example, not everyone has three times a week to play and, b) not everyone enjoys the impersonal association with a Fleet whose members, by and large, don't know each other. Sure, they can hit those higher Tiers much quicker than small Fleets can, by leaps and bounds, in fact. But, there's still that/those person or persons at "the top" who make decisions based on their own whims or by the whims of a set few who can axe a player arbitrarily, make calls on behalf of a large group, the largest percentage of which they don't know on any level, and so on.
No thanks. While I realize this is an MMO and, as such is, by default, a "social" game, I have no more interest in "socializing" with a group of strangers in-game than I do in the real world. And, once again, if you are expecting players, however inadvertently you might be doing so, to socialize with other players, because, if they don't, they don't "get the goods," you are, once again, telling people how to play.
Our Fleet consists of 18 players (as of yesterday, anyway - there were 20). We know each other: each other's names, the names of our spouses/significant others and children, what the others do for a living, and so on. We play together in other games. We have a common play ethic and rules of conduct, and we work hard together. None of us want to merge with a bunch of strangers, or bring in new people simply so we can reach the finish line faster; wouldn't be comfortable or fair, especially since we would, in essence, just be using people for our own goals. That said, and we have not hit T2 yet because we are slowly, but surely, going broke from all the resource outpour, no matter how hard we grind. So we are at a DISTINCT disadvantage.
I will say one thing, however, we are ROLLING in the Fleet Credits! Of course, that can be a downside to larger Fleets, too: yeah you get access to the T5 stuff, but you can't afford it! One of our Fleet members, a younger kid, asked to be released to join another Fleet, a "mega-Fleet," because he felt we were going too slowly, and he wanted more "stuff." He's a little over-eager in other games, too, but we wished him well, and said "sure." Initially, because he had a large amount of credits, he reported back all the new shineys he was getting. Until he ran out. Then, he reported, he wasn't earning anything because he could barely donate a handful of Marks - the projects were always full, since so many were contributing. When that Fleet hit T4, he never had enough Fleet credits or Dil to buy anything, and very quickly lost interest. He's back with us now and, although we are moving like snails toward the upper Tiers, he is much happier because he knows everyone, and is able to actually gain resources he'll be able to put to use, now or later.
The bottom line here is that there is A LOT of diversity in the style of play, availability of play time, overall goals, and methods of groups and individuals, a great many of whom are paying customers, and by reducing access to resources and currencies (and everything seems to be an in-game currency anymore) to tailor things to the way YOU think they should be done, is telling this diverse group that there is really only one route "to the top:" your way, or no way. I don't think anyone (or, at least, not the majority of the player base) is looking for the easy way out, and I think we all know that fewer workers increases the difficulty and slows the rate of progress. But, let US decide what works FOR US and what doesn't, and let us play the way we want to play. We lost two players since the Marks were taken from the IOR missions - they at least had something else than the 'same-'ol-same-'ol' Fleet Missions to play, and had already begun to wear down from exhaustion of resources and interest.
This is a great game and, by and large, you all do a fantastic job, but sometimes it seems you lose sight of the forest for the trees - you're the Devs, and you've the game plan, staff and, ultimately, the call, but it does seem like you're more focused on the mechanics of things than the people they benefit. Just one player's observations. Thanks for your time.
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Yes, but he did eventually come up with a solution. Wasn't it that the loot drops were increased for STF's and the dilithium went up from 480 to 960 for elites? Can't remember now.
Edit: I think he will put fleet marks into the main storyline missions and other types of missions like diplomacy stuff and possibly STF's, but it needs to happen pronto. I know I won't be logging into STO again until this and the can't assign boffs glitch is fixed.
Sorry , misread. Must be all the blood in my eyes from reading the thread.
Not sure what you're referring to here, I have a feeling its the fact text can not convey a emotion well.
Exactly!
What's the phrase? Haters gonna hate?
Only we don't - many, many of us love this game, love Trek and want STO to be around for many years to come.
We want to give the Devs our money but only if they deserve it.
STO's had a painful transition from P2P to F2P and the dream of a real Star Trek game that pays faithful homage to the shows and movies has disappeared under the barrage of money-making schemes that PWE has brought to this game.
The core game, the STO that I'm still fond of is the same game it was when STO was still P2P - almost everything that's been added since then has angered the player-base in one way or another or perhaps just added nothing of real value.
STO is rife with missed opportunities and the only reason it's still around is the loyalty of the fans and some gems of original design that shine through under the grind and the theme-parks and the Epohhs.
If this weren't a Star Trek game, I wouldn't be here - what Cryptic's offering in terms of vision, leadership, quality assurance and value-for-money simply isn't worth it.
Cryptic doesn't owe me anything - and neither do I owe them - I re-evaluate my decision to withhold my money from this game with every new patch and change and since October last year they've done nothing to entice me to be a paying customer again - they have however, done plenty to reassure me that ceasing to pay them was the correct thing to do.
Maybe I just haven't played enough MMOs, but never, in all my experience have I seen a company so arrogant and blinkered to the opinions of its customers.
No. It was the wholesale reversal of his unilateral decision to entirely rip out dilithium and loot from STFs in their entirety, after lying to the entire playerbase by saying, two days (might have been three days) prior to S7 launching by saying that STF payouts wouldn't be adversely affected by S7.
No worries
Hey Weyland *waves*
Apparently some forum posters have diplomatic immunity nowadays, where can I get mine? [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It was more than at the beginning of S7 but less than previously...overall itwas still a nerf, just done in a sneaky way.
in fact i don't even bother doing it when i go there to do the DOff CXP 2 FM Commendation Reports.
5 marks are just... not worth bothering at all.
Not if the project you are starring at wants 20000 marks from you.
for 50 Marks... i guess i would do it every now and then... at least when i'm at the base anyway.
Yes, true. He did entirely reverse his decision to rip it out, but the end result was 980 for elites and loot drops were increased. However, the loot droops are really bad. I only get very rare purples drops every 1 in 7 STF's, on average. Sometimes, I don't even get any loot. Maybe random fleet mark drops for perfectly done missions is what we need for STF's and rommie azure nebula and break tholian web. What do you think?
I feel your pain. Believe me. Does Cryptic seriously think earning some silly STF accolade for completing 100 or so STF's is gong to make up for the drop from 1440 to 960. Ha!
Balanced Mr Stahl? I think not. If you are expecting small fleets to merger that isn't going to happen. Please replace FM's as soon as possible, that also means not in three months time but next week will do fine thanks.
We can't continue at the moment due to the huge amounts of fleet marks required and virtually no way to earn them due to the paltry amounts you can now earn.
Want to alienate your paying customers? Keep going as this is all you're achieving :mad:
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts!
Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible!
The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Just an fyi: the first fleet in the game to hit Tier 5 shipyard did it a few weeks ago and it was a 2 man fleet.
It'd be very elitist to think you are somehow better than every other fleet.
Well, 2 million players / 16500 fleets = 121. But not everyone is in a fleet, so it's actually quite a bit smaller than that
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)