Well seeing as the torps are still destructible there pretty much beyond junk now. At least before they where the hail mary play. Now even if you set up the perfect shot its not going to kill anyone... and 30s... so what if anyone was really serious about torps... they where running doffs and other torps... I think I could get trics down to around 20s or so on my brel pretty consistent.
The mines will be more annoying for the stun... the torps will be beyond junk. I would have said they just wanted to sell more time torps... but I guess those got a nerf to. lol
Well seeing as the torps are still destructible there pretty much beyond junk now.
except every nub either uses them point blank or at 3 km. maybe if the escourt player would use it at either 2 km or 1.5ish it would work. heck even use a tractor ffs.........people need to think out side the box
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
The PvP community is once again showing its inconsistency.
Borticus came to OrganizedPvP to ask for exactly that change. We discussed it there, gave him feedback, which, apart from certain people replying with totally unrelated pet ideas of their own, received positive feedback. I think there was also a forum thread about it.
So why this outrage now, after they started to do something about the problems with trics so many have posted about.
Ladies and Gentlemen, you cannot both have your cake, and eat it.
If anything, such threads tell the devs not to do anything about balance by the PvP community's bidding. :rolleyes:
The damage of roughly 10k that torps will now have is still quite useful, and buffed with the magic tac powers, will still be deadly to the less durable ships.
I was there for that chat and that isn't how the series of events went down at all. Borticus basically came into chat with this whole cooldown reduction idea set in his mind; it was not originally suggested to him by anyone.
This is important: it tells us that Bort likely wasn't taking our input very seriously in the first place. Myself and a few others told him in the chat how there could be some problems with his approach and I personally suggested another solution. I'm not faulting the guy but I do have to wonder why he asked for our opinions when he'd apparently made his mind up before entering the channel.
I should also add that no one requested the devs to work on the tricobalt torps. The issue the entire time, and I must stress this again, was with the changes Cryptic made to tric mines interacting with patterns.
I remember a chat with Borticus and several long-term OrganizedPvP chat channel members, where he proposed exactly this solution. Obviously, not everybody could possibly be there, but the feedback that he asked for and got was, in its majority, positive in that channel chat. In fact, I don't remember a single negative reply, if we agree that "I have another idea, which is much better!!!"-comments have no place in such dicussions.
And once again, like always, I will just say this: Why not just try it out for a week, instead of making a undoubtedly error-prone prognosis of any kind and demand action due to it?
i agree with this post 100% to be honest i dont know why people are getting upset with tric torp changes. i like it. hey people can knock it. they just arent as good as they think they are then. they did not look at every angle. and now my tric torp can deal with extend spam now with out use of psw while putting a torp in that gap of sheilds. i dont even need 2 tric torps just to deal with cd.
right now i have to use 2 of these torp which gimps me because im not using a 4dhc load out. its a 2 dhc load out. sure it hurts targets when i get them. sure it will do less soon, but least now i have the option to use 1 and 3 dhc.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
I was there for that chat and that isn't how the series of events went down at all. Borticus basically came into chat with this whole cooldown reduction idea set in his mind; it was not originally suggested to him by anyone.
This is important: it tells us that Bort likely wasn't taking our input very seriously in the first place. Myself and a few others told him in the chat how there could be some problems with his approach and I personally suggested another solution. I'm not faulting the guy but I do have to wonder why he asked for our opinions when he'd apparently made his mind up before entering the channel.
I should also add that no one requested the devs to work on the tricobalt torps. The issue the entire time, and I must stress this again, was with the changes Cryptic made to tric mines interacting with patterns.
sorry shim but your very wrong on your facts here. most people did agree with it.
people did ask for tric torps to be messed with. i for 1 am glad about the change. if everyone hates the change then i need to ask this, has anyone really used the torp? the people up in arms about it? ummmm....no. you guys are upset about an item you dont even use
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
That's funny, because I remember being in OPvP for something like that, as well as an entire thread here on the forums, full of better ideas than this. Just because they decided to go the mindless nerf route doesn't mean that better ideas weren't offered.
Mines and mechanics related to them were a problem. The only thing Tric Torps needed was a reversion back to the days before they were modified by high yield and spread.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
The Temporal Disruption Device is used, and I always thought it was odd with its 60 second cooldown after using a torp ability now its 30 second and not the 20 second it should've been in the first place. So we now know that it has some legacy tricobalt coding since its damaged was halved, and has that messed up timer after torp abilities. I hope a dev fixes those issues and maybe even give it a speed boost. Probes out run it in KASE.
That's funny, because I remember being in OPvP for something like that, as well as an entire thread here on the forums, full of better ideas than this. Just because they decided to go the mindless nerf route doesn't mean that better ideas weren't offered.
except you think this was a nerf which clearly is not
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
sorry that was in caps..but maybe a dev will see it..
i really hope so
cause the current nerfage of the tricos has done just that..
now quantums with spread iii do much more dmg than trico with spread iii
great mathematical skills guys..really
taking out our beloved trico like that is really just killing the whole notion of a trico weapon.
the whole point of that weapons is u suffered the gun diminished consistent dps by much to allow urself to fight more strategically in a battle and press at the right moment on tricos with other debuffs to spike dmg otherwise non spikable enemy .
thats how slow cruisers.carriers could handle a fast pesky escort coming from behind and lot more situations like that when the enemy is out maneuvering u and shoots at u from behind...not to mention it worked great on pets.
if u nerf the trico's dmg as much atleast let it when it crits to go to the same hights as b4 ...at the very least .
bottom line...trico's new dmg pattern < quantums and basically all mines with spread pattern on them
great going guys
Whatever you want to call it doesn't change the fact that there were better alternatives proposed in that channel and the thread on this forum. To say there weren't is inaccurate.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
sorry shim but your very wrong on your facts here. most people did agree with it.
people did ask for tric torps to be messed with. i for 1 am glad about the change. if everyone hates the change then i need to ask this, has anyone really used the torp? the people up in arms about it? ummmm....no. you guys are upset about an item you dont even use
That's actually exactly what I'm worried about. Mines still haven't been changed for the better and torps are potentially stronger in a very gamey, silly way.
I recall that chat quite vividly and there was a lot of disagreement, it was just that Bort was obsessed with this CDR thing from the get-go.
On the other hand this change could potentially end the tricobalt as the smallsam oneshot wonder weapon. I don't know enough about tricobalts to make any precise predictions, but I would be sad to see this particular build go the way of the dodo.
I'm guessing, but I think that "one-shot" ability might be what they are trying to tone down?
except the torps got a buff. sure lower damage and all aside. they have a faster up time that has a disable.
It's still a nerf to potential spike, for a specific weapon (trico torp) that was generally under performing in a weapon class that is also mostly under-performing.
So yeah, the disable part gets boosted - but the spike is now worse than plasma torps which are on a lower CD.
We can't really judge the effects of it on face value, hopefully Bort will listen to continued input.
That's actually exactly what I'm worried about. Mines still haven't been changed for the better and torps are potentially stronger in a very gamey, silly way.
I recall that chat quite vividly and there was a lot of disagreement, it was just that Bort was obsessed with this CDR thing from the get-go.
That's all I'm saying. Just because they chose to go one route doesn't mean that there weren't alternatives suggested.
As naz said, getting any attention at all is good (even if STF gates were the more likely reason for any attention at all, lol). I look forward to seeing the changes in action but I hope they don't drag their feet if it proves too harmful.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
At the end of the day, things are progressing - it feels like we are starting to cry over spilt milk where there hasn't been any spilt yet.
Have we tried the new modification yet? Not really.
Have we experienced anything bad yet? Not really.
Is it still broke? No idea.
Wait till it is released, play the hell out of it and then give feedback.
Come on guys. We asked for help and we are starting to get it. Its not gonna be perfect first time round.
If you don't stop this nonsense, I will have to resort to bringing my Atlas out to pound your *****
could not have said this better if cryptic wants to take small steps then good. better to make something up then op. least they can scale it up and not nerf it down.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
That's actually exactly what I'm worried about. Mines still haven't been changed for the better and torps are potentially stronger in a very gamey, silly way.
I recall that chat quite vividly and there was a lot of disagreement, it was just that Bort was obsessed with this CDR thing from the get-go.
actually builds will be much stronger if anything. no need to put 2 tric mines or torps on. that means 1 more dhc or turent. its going to be a spam fest. so the damage will be made up in the lower cd time frame.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
actually builds will be much stronger if anything. no need to put 2 tric mines or torps on. that means 1 more dhc or turent. its going to be a spam fest. so the damage will be made up in the lower cd time frame.
because 400000 crits are not fun in pvp. and i doubt the crits would be reduced in a new pvp map by magic
Sorry I was refering to the Trico Torp rather then the mines, you are right on that. Still of all the senseless tweaks they pulled tru in the last year they coulve made a few new pvp maps etc..
Sorry I was refering to the Trico Torp rather then the mines, you are right on that. Still of all the senseless tweaks they pulled tru in the last year they coulve made a few new pvp maps etc..
next on cryptics nerf list.........MT got a damage reduction by 50%, his hull is reduced by 10%, all heals are now reduced by 8%, shield hp reduced by 3.4%.
known issues
can que for pvp any time MT wants too. meant to only que 3 times in a 24 hour time frame.
can team up to tag puppies to collect 5 tags. meant to do this solo and only collect 1 tag every 36 hours.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
ive personally for a wile now been using torps like the omega and then a tric to do heavy bombing alphas with 3 DHCs. i find it a bit more effective then a quantum salvo when their is a sliver of shields in the way, but the self damaging is a major negative vs other normal torps. with the tric damage nerf, they arent worth considering over the omega at all anymore. i can use that thing every 15 seconds, or 10 seconds if i stack HY, its fairly relentless. the tric was good for C&H's, with lone targets. quite a few times i 1 shoted with just 3 DHC and a HY2 tric, was fun. now that highest damage is simply no longer in game, with a poor replacement effect, allowing for stun more often.
in all my experience using it, and being hit by them, the stun was always a non issue, save for the break in abilities like TB and ES, but theres several other ways to get that desired effect without replacing a DHC or whatever other weapon. if the target is moving, the AOE stun anomaly effects them intermittently, and quite often any effect from it is shorter then the gap between CRF DHC fireing cycles. never have i said to myself, boy, its that stun i got on him that really made the difference. and anyone who has faced me should know i always got a TB ready.
this was an obscure weapon already, the loss of other DPS for the stupid thing sitting in one of your forward weapon slots doing nothing for 60 seconds was a drag on effectiveness with little chance of it being used successfully without a decloak. just lowering the cooldown is appropriate, halfing the damage below HY plasma levels is not. without tric consoles, your not going to see a non HY tric deal much more then ~6k damage directly to hull, and my MKXII was only seeing about 10k with HY1. when was the last time you saw a good hull hit from quantum or even photon salvo's deal that little combined?
if these stuns were so great during an alpha, why isn't everyone using the shockwave torp console and PSW on every escort that can use it? oh thats right, even fully buffed the stun is tiny compared to what it used to be way back when, i remember bops very effectively using it during alphas. when people quietly move on from these 'buffed' tric torps, i'll try not to say i told you so.
ummm...spread on trics? yeah dont think you should really post if your using a spread on a tric............
you should post less responses to people and try think more
and if u would ever go up against a team that uses them combined with gwx3 u would probably spend ur multiple posting skills crying on these forums
on all your posts hear i didnt see even one logical response..
the only logical point of getting a trico mine is just for trailing back on pets coming at u , for everything else its useless
you should post less responses to people and try think more
and if u would ever go up against a team that uses them combined with gwx3 u would probably spend ur multiple posting skills crying on these forums
on all your posts hear i didnt see even one logical response..
the only logical point of getting a trico mine is just for trailing back on pets coming at u , for everything else its useless
not really since they move slower then a turtle. thats why you use a tb at 1.5 km
inless ur confusing spread for a dp. if you say spread i have to assume your talking torps.
and if you think your stupid mines got nerf then thats full of logic fail
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
not really since they move slower then a turtle. thats why you use a tb at 1.5 km
inless ur confusing spread for a dp. if you say spread i have to assume your talking torps.
and if you think your stupid mines got nerf then thats full of logic fail
next time b4 saying anything try reading the entire post..how does spread pattern trico relate in any way to torpedo ?? "torpedo spread" "spread pattern" ..reading comprehension
and there are numerous other ways to stop a target which im sure as hell not gonna specify ...but works best on a full omega escort that think to outrun everything ...
of course trico on a pvp enemy would be worthless if there was no way to stop them .
as there are ways the problem is with the spike dmg ...if the mines previously critted on a target when u debuffed it u got what u wanted . as now ..unless the target is seriously under speked ..it wont .
dmg wise trico now almost match nose to nose the quantum mines using mines spread patterns , the trico has the aoe advantage and thats good for pve , albeit much less then b4 , but thats bout it now .
The tric torp change is utterly baffling... no one wanted nor asked for a change to the torps, they've never been an issue, even in PvE. In fact tric torps have never filled any role because what you could get done with trics you could do even easier with quants (non-destructible), simply due to the nature of the circumstances that prevail when torps are being used.
Maybe Cryptic could stop trying to be creative and just admit that their original dispersal pattern change was a poor one, and leave the rest well enough alone?
Actually a dev stopped by opvp a while back and asked a handful of opvpers online at the time what we might think about a potential change like this. There were various responses and a vague discussion about the possible idea going into effect. And if I remember right part of the change is aimed at addressing the tricobalt one shotting that's plagued the queues with the mines recently.
I'll be working with them myself and I'll certainly hop over and see what TRH thinks about the changes. They may need some tweaking so they are still viable relative to the average damage of other torps but in the long run this could be a very interesting change. Lets wait and test them out ourselves and cross that bridge when we've come to it.
-Captain Tripwire-
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
So, after messing around with it.. you can't bring a Tricobalt Torpedo down below global Cool down. Even with only 1 Tricobalt Torpedo and Photon Torpedoes, can't bring it down below 15 seconds.
Oh well.. Was a nice thought. But I guess that's one good thing they didn't break.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
5 torpedos hit it every 15 seconds, they only have to spread out a little.
The mines will be more annoying for the stun... the torps will be beyond junk. I would have said they just wanted to sell more time torps... but I guess those got a nerf to.
except every nub either uses them point blank or at 3 km. maybe if the escourt player would use it at either 2 km or 1.5ish it would work. heck even use a tractor ffs.........people need to think out side the box
I was there for that chat and that isn't how the series of events went down at all. Borticus basically came into chat with this whole cooldown reduction idea set in his mind; it was not originally suggested to him by anyone.
This is important: it tells us that Bort likely wasn't taking our input very seriously in the first place. Myself and a few others told him in the chat how there could be some problems with his approach and I personally suggested another solution. I'm not faulting the guy but I do have to wonder why he asked for our opinions when he'd apparently made his mind up before entering the channel.
I should also add that no one requested the devs to work on the tricobalt torps. The issue the entire time, and I must stress this again, was with the changes Cryptic made to tric mines interacting with patterns.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
i agree with this post 100% to be honest i dont know why people are getting upset with tric torp changes. i like it. hey people can knock it. they just arent as good as they think they are then. they did not look at every angle. and now my tric torp can deal with extend spam now with out use of psw while putting a torp in that gap of sheilds. i dont even need 2 tric torps just to deal with cd.
right now i have to use 2 of these torp which gimps me because im not using a 4dhc load out. its a 2 dhc load out. sure it hurts targets when i get them. sure it will do less soon, but least now i have the option to use 1 and 3 dhc.
people did ask for tric torps to be messed with. i for 1 am glad about the change. if everyone hates the change then i need to ask this, has anyone really used the torp? the people up in arms about it? ummmm....no. you guys are upset about an item you dont even use
Mines and mechanics related to them were a problem. The only thing Tric Torps needed was a reversion back to the days before they were modified by high yield and spread.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
except you think this was a nerf which clearly is not
i really hope so
cause the current nerfage of the tricos has done just that..
now quantums with spread iii do much more dmg than trico with spread iii
great mathematical skills guys..really
taking out our beloved trico like that is really just killing the whole notion of a trico weapon.
the whole point of that weapons is u suffered the gun diminished consistent dps by much to allow urself to fight more strategically in a battle and press at the right moment on tricos with other debuffs to spike dmg otherwise non spikable enemy .
thats how slow cruisers.carriers could handle a fast pesky escort coming from behind and lot more situations like that when the enemy is out maneuvering u and shoots at u from behind...not to mention it worked great on pets.
if u nerf the trico's dmg as much atleast let it when it crits to go to the same hights as b4 ...at the very least .
bottom line...trico's new dmg pattern < quantums and basically all mines with spread pattern on them
great going guys
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
That's actually exactly what I'm worried about. Mines still haven't been changed for the better and torps are potentially stronger in a very gamey, silly way.
I recall that chat quite vividly and there was a lot of disagreement, it was just that Bort was obsessed with this CDR thing from the get-go.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Have we tried the new modification yet? Not really.
Have we experienced anything bad yet? Not really.
Is it still broke? No idea.
Wait till it is released, play the hell out of it and then give feedback.
Come on guys. We asked for help and we are starting to get it. Its not gonna be perfect first time round.
If you don't stop this nonsense, I will have to resort to bringing my Atlas out to pound your *****
I'm guessing, but I think that "one-shot" ability might be what they are trying to tone down?
It's still a nerf to potential spike, for a specific weapon (trico torp) that was generally under performing in a weapon class that is also mostly under-performing.
So yeah, the disable part gets boosted - but the spike is now worse than plasma torps which are on a lower CD.
We can't really judge the effects of it on face value, hopefully Bort will listen to continued input.
That's all I'm saying. Just because they chose to go one route doesn't mean that there weren't alternatives suggested.
As naz said, getting any attention at all is good (even if STF gates were the more likely reason for any attention at all, lol). I look forward to seeing the changes in action but I hope they don't drag their feet if it proves too harmful.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
could not have said this better
ummm...spread on trics? yeah dont think you should really post if your using a spread on a tric............
actually builds will be much stronger if anything. no need to put 2 tric mines or torps on. that means 1 more dhc or turent. its going to be a spam fest. so the damage will be made up in the lower cd time frame.
lulz.
/10char
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
because 400000 crits are not fun in pvp. and i doubt the crits would be reduced in a new pvp map by magic
Sorry I was refering to the Trico Torp rather then the mines, you are right on that. Still of all the senseless tweaks they pulled tru in the last year they coulve made a few new pvp maps etc..
next on cryptics nerf list.........MT got a damage reduction by 50%, his hull is reduced by 10%, all heals are now reduced by 8%, shield hp reduced by 3.4%.
known issues
can que for pvp any time MT wants too. meant to only que 3 times in a 24 hour time frame.
can team up to tag puppies to collect 5 tags. meant to do this solo and only collect 1 tag every 36 hours.
in all my experience using it, and being hit by them, the stun was always a non issue, save for the break in abilities like TB and ES, but theres several other ways to get that desired effect without replacing a DHC or whatever other weapon. if the target is moving, the AOE stun anomaly effects them intermittently, and quite often any effect from it is shorter then the gap between CRF DHC fireing cycles. never have i said to myself, boy, its that stun i got on him that really made the difference. and anyone who has faced me should know i always got a TB ready.
this was an obscure weapon already, the loss of other DPS for the stupid thing sitting in one of your forward weapon slots doing nothing for 60 seconds was a drag on effectiveness with little chance of it being used successfully without a decloak. just lowering the cooldown is appropriate, halfing the damage below HY plasma levels is not. without tric consoles, your not going to see a non HY tric deal much more then ~6k damage directly to hull, and my MKXII was only seeing about 10k with HY1. when was the last time you saw a good hull hit from quantum or even photon salvo's deal that little combined?
if these stuns were so great during an alpha, why isn't everyone using the shockwave torp console and PSW on every escort that can use it? oh thats right, even fully buffed the stun is tiny compared to what it used to be way back when, i remember bops very effectively using it during alphas. when people quietly move on from these 'buffed' tric torps, i'll try not to say i told you so.
you should post less responses to people and try think more
and if u would ever go up against a team that uses them combined with gwx3 u would probably spend ur multiple posting skills crying on these forums
on all your posts hear i didnt see even one logical response..
the only logical point of getting a trico mine is just for trailing back on pets coming at u , for everything else its useless
not really since they move slower then a turtle. thats why you use a tb at 1.5 km
inless ur confusing spread for a dp. if you say spread i have to assume your talking torps.
and if you think your stupid mines got nerf then thats full of logic fail
next time b4 saying anything try reading the entire post..how does spread pattern trico relate in any way to torpedo ?? "torpedo spread" "spread pattern" ..reading comprehension
and there are numerous other ways to stop a target which im sure as hell not gonna specify ...but works best on a full omega escort that think to outrun everything ...
of course trico on a pvp enemy would be worthless if there was no way to stop them .
as there are ways the problem is with the spike dmg ...if the mines previously critted on a target when u debuffed it u got what u wanted . as now ..unless the target is seriously under speked ..it wont .
dmg wise trico now almost match nose to nose the quantum mines using mines spread patterns , the trico has the aoe advantage and thats good for pve , albeit much less then b4 , but thats bout it now .
Actually a dev stopped by opvp a while back and asked a handful of opvpers online at the time what we might think about a potential change like this. There were various responses and a vague discussion about the possible idea going into effect. And if I remember right part of the change is aimed at addressing the tricobalt one shotting that's plagued the queues with the mines recently.
I'll be working with them myself and I'll certainly hop over and see what TRH thinks about the changes. They may need some tweaking so they are still viable relative to the average damage of other torps but in the long run this could be a very interesting change. Lets wait and test them out ourselves and cross that bridge when we've come to it.
-Captain Tripwire-
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Oh well.. Was a nice thought. But I guess that's one good thing they didn't break.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
salut my friend!
ggs