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Cryptic Needs to do across the board Escort Hull nerf!
born2bwild1
Member Posts: 1,329 Arc User
Looking across the range of Escorts vs Crusiers - (KDF Bops excluded) I can't fathom why most top end escorts are only 10-15% lower hull than crusiers that are more than 5 times their size.
Where is the rationale for a 36k Hull escort? No escort should be above 25k hull.
It's that or Crusiers need a HUGE hull boost.
Why is this game so (un)balanced? So that all ship classes are semi-equal to each other? Why have different classes at all? Why have different captain classes?
I have always wondered why this MMO does not have some major differences between ships and careers.
Where is the rationale for a 36k Hull escort? No escort should be above 25k hull.
It's that or Crusiers need a HUGE hull boost.
Why is this game so (un)balanced? So that all ship classes are semi-equal to each other? Why have different classes at all? Why have different captain classes?
I have always wondered why this MMO does not have some major differences between ships and careers.
Post edited by born2bwild1 on
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Comments
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Not all do. Most of the new escorts are sporting 1 shield mod same as most crusiers. Blockrunner, Breen, Bug, fleet Patrol and a few other fleet - most fleet crusiers are 1.15 - wow big diff.
It seems like escorts are getting stronger and stronger in this game.
Most KDF crusiers are sporting 1 shield mod - while the raptors and bops are .8ish
So Fed side escorts are getting uber powerful in the game - why?
Only fix needed to make cruisers and sci ships more useful compared to escorts is all other weapons besides DHC need to be fixed. Make all weapons fire similar to DHC firing cycle where they deal all the damage in the first second of the cycle then spend 2 seconds on cooldown allowing you to gain more power back, this will fix DPS of beams and single cannons and make non escorts more useful.
so, how do we improve this to a balanced standard while keeping canon?
maybe it may help to give cruisers a specific type of weapon, like the escorts already have, same with the science ships.
or give cruisers slightly higher shield multipliers
escorts could get speed increases, as well as more skills to encourage hit and run style attacks
maybe release cruisers with more than 8 total weapon slots.
i can't think of a true, solid, and easily thought of solution, but these are just my ideas.
I agree with that - they should lower the drain on beams. But you still don't cover why ships of great size difference don't have greater hull differences.
The breen ship - classed as an escort comes with the highest hull yet at 36k - and the Jem escort/carrier comes in at 37,500
Honestly, if you're looking for an easy fix to the escort vs cruiser thing when it comes to damage, just make cruisers have a special mod vs smaller ships. Anything that's not a cruiser, they do double damage to and take half damage from.
Bigger ships, more damage power, more resilience to smaller ships.
This can also be expanded upon in PVE and PVP. Even STFs, Borg cubes=Capital ships/Mobile space stations. Mod as necessary the damage values and damage resistances with both shields and hull. Remove the instant kills and make them durable as they should be with lethality in dps, rather than stupidly high instant kill strategies that works for nobody.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
That would be good - I see escorts now in ESTF tanking all the time - they should be quick in and out straffing - but now many can take sustained fire.
As my last example of the Breen and the New Jem escort - there seems to be a "Escort Hull creep" going on in this game.
What's next a 40k escort?
Is something changing in May?
Well if Cryptic actually DID something about the issue then there would be some more interesting threads I am sure!:eek:
A cruiser can't lay down the pain like an escort can and you know it's not supposed to.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
You are mixing lore with game mechanics... what are you thinking? Next you'll start up the whole "cruisers should get more energy bonuses because of their larger reactors" sillyness. Or maybe it'll be "Beams are superawesomesauce damage dealers!! they should have twice the range just 'cause!!!", that one never gets old either.
As far as the Breen and Jem ships... Cryptic has figured out that by giving people what they want they will sell more and keep people happier ie: escorts with cruiser like hulls. Honestly I'm just glad the new Jemmy escort carrier isn't just a Bug with a bolted on hangar bay.
Well that's not me - I just began noticing more and more escorts tanking and not going pop in ESTF - and it's not the quality of play as in over 2000++ stf I have seen it all. So I started looking at the hull stats and with the last two escorts its been a hull creep.
Breen was 36k - 3 more than a Fleet defiant and now the Jem Escort carrier at 37,500 were just a few % away from T5 crusiers
Like I said at this rate a 40k escort is coming.
I think we all get the point by now.
Cryptic does not get the point as now you can get an escort(ish) turn rate with a crusier like hull, with a escort firepower.
Why has there not been the same magnitude of hull creep on the crusier side?
Going by the same % increases in hulls the Jem dread should have been over 50k to keep up with the escort hull creep.
Add that to the escort shield mod creep as well.
Fleet Aquarius Destroyer comes closest to what a true escort should be in the game with 26.5k hull and .72 shield mod.
Funny there are lots of T4 shipyards out there but I have not seen one in game yet.
That's because everyone got a buff with the omega and romulan passives. They in effective raised the level cap without actually raising the cap by giving more passives.
So, no. Escorts don't need to be nerfed. And no, we don't need ANOTHER thread on this subject. If escorts were the end-all-be-all of ships, everyone would be flying them. But strangely enough, I see A LOT of cruisers flying around. :rolleyes:
EDIT: Or perhaps could it be that, OMG, people are actually learning to improve their gameplay?
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes and I believe the Borg also got nerfed. Still I think a lot of people are still in crusiers because they like crusiers.
But I can tell you a 5 man crusier team is tough to get optional in a pug - but a 5 man escort team is no problem.
Optional objectives are usually a timed event. As such, it's basically a DPS race. DPS is what escorts are SUPPOSED to do. This doesn't mean escorts need to be nerfed. If you want something changed about this (and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be changed), then they should make the optional objective be something different than "kill x within 10 minutes".
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well TANKING is something escorts are NOT supposed to do. But 1 shield mods and mid 30's hull lets them do that as well now. Why?
I can get along just fine in a Hegh'ta class Heavy Bop with 24k hull, 0.8 shield mod, 6 weapons slots and 4 BO - without using a cloak - as cloak is useless in ESTF and will actually get you 1 shot killed often.
So why do escorts need the High DPS and High Hull?
Since when is 30K hull considered high? Cruisers have much higher hull.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
if you read my other posts - the last 2 - Breen at 36k and now Jem HEC at 37,500 are the highest in the game - close to T5 Sov
Those are not 'escorts' in the strict sense, and more a hybrid escort/cruisers/carrier. The Breen was limited time availability, and is no longer available (not tradeable). The Jem HEC only has commander tac slot, and is heavy on engineering slots, and is a Lockbox ship (which generally have better stats than the non-lockbox ships).
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If anything I would say give Cruisers more hull.
Though the issue of Escort toughness is both a series of small things that have caused thr sotuation and the fact that new concepts in escort build design (hilberts guide for example) have increased the escorts ability to survive.
Add that to the fact that while Cruisers can rank they do not have the luxury of wearing an enemy down in the game.
But to say that Escorts should not tank is a statement that does not make sense to me. The escort is merely a platform. The ability to tank is in build layout and timing.
R.I.P
Indeed. This ^^
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How many guides posted by players who actually know the game and its mechanics simply state to use escorts only in PvE?
Right now escorts, and the wannabe escorts (Breen/etc) are the only ships worth using in PvE. The only reason everyone doesn't use them is that most players of this game are pretty terrible both skill and knowledge wise combined with the casual nature many approach the game with.
Sadly in STFs anymore I don't see much of a difference between an AFK player and a typical snoozer.
R.I.P
I guess the 2 biggest problems are: too much power drain on beams and too little hull compared to escorts.
I guess flying the Heavy Bop with a 24k hull in ESTF and surviving most times has just made me wonder what's up with the Hull creep for the escorts.
Seems like escorts are getting more and more OP .
Wonder what they will come out with on the Andorian ship? Why not have a Destroyer with 40k hull and 16 turn and 1.2 shield mod? 8 weapons slots and DHC loads and 20+ power to weapons!
All I'm going to say is this:
Most of the ships classified by STO as Escorts are in fact Cruisers.