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Sci/Sci Damage

darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
Disclaimer: I understand escorts do the most damage overall, by a large margin. Tac captains may also do more damage, especially in escorts. Even some cruisers are built to do very good damage. This thread is NOT for those captains. Also, I'm certain there are other builds out there that can do as much damage, if not more. This is my build, and it works. Plain and simple.

Constructive criticism, suggestions, and opinions welcome. If you have none to offer, do not fill up my thread with flaming posts of 'EHHSKORTZ MOAR BETTAR!!!' and other such nonsense. This thread is meant to shamelessly show off my build, and how much damage it does, to other Sci captains, in Sci ships, in the hopes that they may take some ideas from it to improve their own performance. I see too many escort damage threads, and 'cruisers are underpowered' threads. This is Science, people, and it CAN work.

Now... the reason i know I have a good build is not based on parses, although I do intend on collecting some once I can get a decent parser to work right. It's based on performance and observations. I frequently come in 1st and 2nd in SB24 runs, even with 4 Tac captains, in escorts. Never finish below 3rd. ESTFs, even with fleet mates, some things just refuse to die unless I shoot at them. I can even take aggro from escorts shooting at Elite Tac Cubes most of the time.

Given that, I know the forum trolls will demand parses to show performance much like the Knights Who Say 'Neh!' demand shrubbery. Relax. I'll get some and get them in here. Until then, shut up.

On to the build:

Ship: Fleet Recon Science Vessel

Fore: 3x Dual Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII [CrtH]x3
Aft: 3x Tetryon Beam Array Mk XII [CrtH]x3

MACO Mk XII

Devices:
Jevonite Ablative Hardpoints (testing, used to be Scorpion Fighters)
Red Matter Capacitor
Subspace Field Modulator

Eng: Zero Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module
Sci: 3x Field Generator Mk XI (Blue), Tachyokinetic Converter
Tac: 4x Tetryon something-or-other Energy Damage Mk XII (Blue)

Tac BOffs: 2x FAW1, TT2
Eng BOff: EPtS1, RSP1
Sci BOffs: 2x TSS1, 2x HE2, 2x ES2, TBR3

Doffs: 2x Conn Officer (TT cooldown reduction, Purple), 3x Shield Distribution (Purple)

Weapon Power: 119/100
Shield Power: 56/40
Engine Power: 31/25
Auxiliary Power: 64/35

Specced to 9: Weapons, Energy Weapons, Targeting, Maneuvers, Energy Specialization, Flow Caps, Shield Emitters, Shield Systems, Structural Integrity, Hull Repair, Electro-Plasma Systems, Power Insulators, Shield Performance. Weapon Performance, Aux Performance, Graviton Generators, Warp Core Potential, and Impulse Turn Rate at 6. Both Damage Resistance skills at 3. This is a space thread, not gonna bother with ground skills.

Rep passives I took the entire top row for Romulan (Both crit bonuses and both shield heals) and the entire bottom row for Omega (Both weapon skills and shield heals).


So... as you can see, there's a LOT of survivability in there. I usually don't die unless I find myself surrounded by high-level enemies. Or... if I fly too deep into the SB24 swarm by myself.

TBR3 does loads of shield-bypassing goodness, Energy Siphons help with weapon power drain, and the rest is pretty much heals.

Potential upgrades I may/may not have tried:

Antiproton: Blatantly obvious with a Crit build. Have not tried yet, but intend to once I get Tetryons parsed. I chose Tetryon first due to the buff from Flow Caps, but Polarons are just as fun, if not better.

Omega Weapon Amplifier: I was using this, and it worked quite well, but seeing as beams fire much less than cannons, I barely ever saw it trigger. Ends up being a wash, so I threw another BA in the rear for FAW and haven't looked back.

Feedback Pulse 3: I tried this and it works well, considering the amount of aggro combined with survivability, but you lose all elements of crowd control.

Gravity Well 3: This... is not as good as most people make it out to be. Yes, they all bunch together. Even with max Particle Generators I've only ever seen it do as much as 7-800 per damage tick. TBR3 does over 1.2k each pulse, and that's without critting. But it is far easier to use than TBR, so... to each his own.

Energy Siphon 3: The drain is much better, especially with Flow Cap consoles. But to keep up the drain, you'd need to use Deflector Officers, meaning you'd sacrifice DOff slots. Not to mention Deflector Officers are currently bugged, and they don't have any effect on Energy Siphon (or Tachyon Beam). So... moving on.

Flow Cap consoles over Field Generators: Bigger drains = better. At the moment I'm testing Field Generators to see how much of an improvement they give, but as soon as my fleet unlocks the Mk XII Embassy Consoles... they're going by the wayside.

Particle Generator consoles: You could use these as a matter of taste instead of my preference for Flow Caps. I haven't tested them.

Fleet Weapons: Believe it or not, my [CrtH]x3 weapons do more damage over time than Fleet [Dmg]x3[CrtH] weapons simply due to the number of criticals. My fleet hasn't unlocked Elite weapons yet, but I likely won't be using them as they're limited to Phaser damage, which has no synergy with any part of my build.

Torpedoes/Mines/Turrets/Cutting Beam/Cannons&Turrets/Wet Potatoes: No synergy with skills whatsoever, and likely not worth rearranging things for. I have tested turrets, and the Omega Torpedo/Kinetic Beam. I also had everything swapped around at one point to use a Cannon-based build with CRF on a reduced cooldown. It worked decent, especially with the Omega Weapon Amplifier and Tetryon triggers. Overall... DBBs deal more damage when you're using a Sci ship. You also have access to Subsystem Targeting if you feel so inclined. And don't ask about the Wet Potatoes. I could've just written Kitchen Sink in there.
STO Academy

U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

Glorious Melee Combat
Post edited by darthvicious666 on

Comments

  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That looks pretty sweet, I fly a sci/sci in a Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit which has less heals but more denial stuff

    Weapons
    Fore: 2x Phased Polaron Beam Array Mk XI, Quantum Torp Mk XI [Acc] [CrtD]
    Aft: As Fore

    Equipment
    Full Aegis (Will get fleet When able)

    Consoles
    Eng: 3x Neutronium Mk XI (Blue)
    Sci: Biofunction monitor Mk XI (Blue, will likely trade for rommy console), Emitter Array Mk XI (Blue), Particle Generator Mk XI (Blue), Sensor Probes Mk XI (Blue, Will trade for borg)
    Tac: 2x Polaron Phaser Modulator Mk XI (Blue)

    Boffs
    LTC Tac: TT1, FAW2, AP:B2
    Lt Eng: EPtS1&2
    CMDR Sci: HE1, TSS2, TR2, GW3
    LT Sci: TB1, FBP1 (Clashes with TSS but not sure what to put in its place)
    Ens Sci: PH1

    Doffs
    Energy Weapons officer (White, want a TR doff), Sensors Officer (Blue), Deflector Officer (Blue)x2, Gravimetric scientist (Blue)

    Skill Plan

    It does around 1k per hit and a lot of evil sci stuff, only thing I've found it to fall victim to thus far is elite Tac cubes
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    What kind of build are you aiming for OP? Because it looks like you're just going for a shield tank with minor damage, which I will tell you right now, as much fun as it may/may not be to play, it's not horribly effective. Course this is coming from a captain who runs his sci as a drain/burn boat.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    That looks pretty sweet, I fly a sci/sci in a Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit which has less heals but more denial stuff

    Weapons
    Fore: 2x Phased Polaron Beam Array Mk XI, Quantum Torp Mk XI [Acc] [CrtD]
    Aft: As Fore

    Equipment
    Full Aegis (Will get fleet When able)

    Consoles
    Eng: 3x Neutronium Mk XI (Blue)
    Sci: Biofunction monitor Mk XI (Blue, will likely trade for rommy console), Emitter Array Mk XI (Blue), Particle Generator Mk XI (Blue), Sensor Probes Mk XI (Blue, Will trade for borg)
    Tac: 2x Polaron Phaser Modulator Mk XI (Blue)

    Boffs
    LTC Tac: TT1, FAW2, AP:B2
    Lt Eng: EPtS1&2
    CMDR Sci: HE1, TSS2, TR2, GW3
    LT Sci: TB1, FBP1 (Clashes with TSS but not sure what to put in its place)
    Ens Sci: PH1

    Doffs
    Energy Weapons officer (White, want a TR doff), Sensors Officer (Blue), Deflector Officer (Blue)x2, Gravimetric scientist (Blue)

    Skill Plan

    It does around 1k per hit and a lot of evil sci stuff, only thing I've found it to fall victim to thus far is elite Tac cubes

    Must be nice having a LtC Tac slot :P
    I also hate that FBP shares a cooldown with TSS. My build is a lot more redundant than yours. I found a lot of the Sci tools to not be of much use to the way I play, such as TB or PH. I would suggest TBR in place of FBP, the shared cooldown between that and TB is barely noticable. It's just tricky to use, but it has all sorts of uses. Gets HY torps, hull damage to shielded targets, fighter spam, minefields, and on top of that it can find Donatra when she's cloaked. Although I don't recommend using them on Donatra, chasing her down can be tough enough sometimes. Combined with GW, you can hold a set of probes in Khitomer indefinitely if you time the cooldowns right.
    What kind of build are you aiming for OP? Because it looks like you're just going for a shield tank with minor damage, which I will tell you right now, as much fun as it may/may not be to play, it's not horribly effective. Course this is coming from a captain who runs his sci as a drain/burn boat.

    My beams do anywhere from 1k-2k per hit, unbuffed. Crits do about 3k, and I get a lot of crits as you may have noticed. Buffed crits can hit as high as 5k, or more depending on the buffs involved (someone using AP:B, my Sensor Scan, a disruptor trigger, etc.) Granted, this is mostly within 5km to target. I fail to see how this can be considered 'minor damage', especially with TBR3 thrown in.

    Speaking of Khitomer, I once held off the probes on both sides by myself using nothing but TBR3, Evasive Maneuvers, and weapons. Yes, in KASE. It's VERY 'effective'.

    Beyond that, yeah. It's a shield tank.

    Although, I'm always curious about how other people fly their Sci/Sci wessels.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    My beams do anywhere from 1k-2k per hit, unbuffed. Crits do about 3k, and I get a lot of crits as you may have noticed. Buffed crits can hit as high as 5k, or more depending on the buffs involved (someone using AP:B, my Sensor Scan, a disruptor trigger, etc.) Granted, this is mostly within 5km to target. I fail to see how this can be considered 'minor damage', especially with TBR3 thrown in.

    Speaking of Khitomer, I once held off the probes on both sides by myself using nothing but TBR3, Evasive Maneuvers, and weapons. Yes, in KASE. It's VERY 'effective'.

    Beyond that, yeah. It's a shield tank.

    Although, I'm always curious about how other people fly their Sci/Sci wessels.

    Aaaah. I see now. You're hanging out at 5k or less. Now it makes sense as to why you are such a shield tank/have high damage output. I retract my statement, carry on.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Aaaah. I see now. You're hanging out at 5k or less. Now it makes sense as to why you are such a shield tank/have high damage output. I retract my statement, carry on.

    Yeah, 5k or less per shot. On average, I've seen some that spike for 6k-8k but they don't happen that often. Most likely that was a crit with multiple debuffs on the target's bare hull.

    I don't expect much more than that per shot, I AM a Science Captain in a Science ship, after all.

    However, if you have any ideas for increasing that (other than using torps, mines, or escorts) I'm open to ideas. Of course that would be without sacrificing too much of my survivability. We all know a dead ship deals no damage.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Equipment
    Full Aegis (Will get fleet When able)

    I miss using my Aegis set. It looks so damn cool.

    I can hear the TRON Legacy opening music in the background... LOL
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • synkr0nizedsynkr0nized Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Speaking of Khitomer, I once held off the probes on both sides by myself using nothing but TBR3, Evasive Maneuvers, and weapons. Yes, in KASE. It's VERY 'effective'.

    That's not really all that impressive, considering an escort could do the same job with CSV and evasive just to be safe, and a cruiser, or at least one that knows what it's doing, should also be able to do it with good use of weapon-boosting skills and whatever CC is preferred.

    What I am saying is that probes are very weak, so I am not sure what kind of usefulness it is to use that as an example of a build's or ship's effectiveness.



    My fed sci is in a galor, though I have an Atrox, MVAM, and DSSV set up on her as well. I kind of don't know that I like the DSSV, but I also probably am doing it wrong. I loaded it with dual beam banks up front and turrets in the back with some beam overload to go along with forward-arc sci toys. But in PvE that can be kind of underwhelming when you have big health pools on the targets and various stationary objects.

    My klank sci is in a Kar'Fi, because it's terrific.
    _______
    equal parts cynical and helpful
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That's not really all that impressive, considering an escort could do the same job with CSV and evasive just to be safe, and a cruiser, or at least one that knows what it's doing, should also be able to do it with good use of weapon-boosting skills and whatever CC is preferred.

    What I am saying is that probes are very weak, so I am not sure what kind of usefulness it is to use that as an example of a build's or ship's effectiveness.



    My fed sci is in a galor, though I have an Atrox, MVAM, and DSSV set up on her as well. I kind of don't know that I like the DSSV, but I also probably am doing it wrong. I loaded it with dual beam banks up front and turrets in the back with some beam overload to go along with forward-arc sci toys. But in PvE that can be kind of underwhelming when you have big health pools on the targets and various stationary objects.

    My klank sci is in a Kar'Fi, because it's terrific.

    Ok... maybe probes are a bad example. They are quite weak. But it was the first time I could do that by myself in a science ship. The first time I tried to anyway. Most of the time, a science ship can barely do enough damage to kill the probes on one side by itself before more spawn in. Pug science ships don't put off a very good image. Mostly they just spam Gravity Well at generators and transformers. :mad:

    Beam Overload left me wanting more. The burst damage is nice, but the power drain hurts too much. It felt like it took me longer to kill stuff with BO than with FAW. I could pop little stuff like an escort, but bigger stuff mostly shrugged me off.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I just checked the exchange for Antiproton weapons. I found nothing but the craftable weapons.

    *Sigh*
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I.... I just don't know what to say here....

    This is only for pve right? Please tell me you don't take that... "Thing" into pvp? Right?


    The mix of weapons alone make my head hurt... 3 duel beams in front and 3 regular in the aft? -sighs-

    I regularly get yelled at in stfs when I use my vesta because I'm out damaging/already working on the cube in KASE while everyone else is still working ok their probes...


    There are plenty of sci/sci damage builds over on the pvp forum. I'd suggest taking a gander over there to see what you coulda adapt to your play style.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    OP: just a few things: you might want to check on disruptors, they are the best to deal dmg with.
    grav well 3 is loved because it helds stuff together nicer and tighter than grav well 1, and you want that for the warpcore xplosions
    I dont understand the phaser thingie you talk about the fleet weapons
    also I was expecting some real numbers, like an actual parsed game or something, because sadly(?) this game can make you feel that your build is the bestest thing ever since you can feel good about your build even with 5k DPS in an stf (which is sadly a decent number, since most ppl cannot even jump 3k, while ships are pretty much capable double of these easily)

    maicake716 wrote: »
    This is only for pve right? Please tell me you don't take that... "Thing" into pvp? Right?
    what is "pvp"? is there such a tribble ingame?

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    I.... I just don't know what to say here....

    This is only for pve right? Please tell me you don't take that... "Thing" into pvp? Right?


    The mix of weapons alone make my head hurt... 3 duel beams in front and 3 regular in the aft? -sighs-

    I regularly get yelled at in stfs when I use my vesta because I'm out damaging/already working on the cube in KASE while everyone else is still working ok their probes...


    There are plenty of sci/sci damage builds over on the pvp forum. I'd suggest taking a gander over there to see what you coulda adapt to your play style.

    The mix of weapons works better than you'd think most of the time thanks to FAWx2. But, honestly, I have been wanting more damage in the front arc, especially since i can turn very well thanks to the TKC console. Turrets are just so... meh. And the Kinetic Beam does so little to shields... on top of that, the 2pc set trigger barely ever came up.

    The OP did say I was open to suggestions and constructive criticism, by the way. Maybe you missed that part. Anyway, I do wander the PvP threads from time to time to look for advice on builds and such, but most of the Sci/Sci builds I find are for healers. Healing is boring, and we all know it.

    I would welcome your build to be posted here, but... it's a Vesta... I already know you got some kind of DHC/DC fore weapon setup that I can't use. Post it if you like anyway.

    And before you ask, I very VERY rarely PvP. Still not comfortable enough with my build just yet. Pug games lead to a... randomness factor. I'd rather it not be against actual people I am forced to ride alongside rainbow cruisers and failscorts.
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    OP: just a few things: you might want to check on disruptors, they are the best to deal dmg with.
    grav well 3 is loved because it helds stuff together nicer and tighter than grav well 1, and you want that for the warpcore xplosions
    I dont understand the phaser thingie you talk about the fleet weapons
    also I was expecting some real numbers, like an actual parsed game or something, because sadly(?) this game can make you feel that your build is the bestest thing ever since you can feel good about your build even with 5k DPS in an stf (which is sadly a decent number, since most ppl cannot even jump 3k, while ships are pretty much capable double of these easily)

    what is "pvp"? is there such a tribble ingame?

    I am currently testing disruptors, honestly. And sadly, they underperform the tetryons I had. Sucks that I had to sell the tetryons to buy them. If I could find Antiproton Beams [CrtH]x3 with DBBs to go with them, I'd pick them up faster than The Flash.
    The way I use it, TBR3 is far more versatile than GW3. And it does more damage per tick.
    Elite Fleet weapons (Fed side) are limited to Phaser damage only. Klingons have Disruptor only. At least... from what I hear. Advanced Fleet weapons come in all flavors of damage.
    I did mention I have yet to get a parser to work, right? Stupid CombatLogParser keeps showing me the same combat log from an STF I did months ago, even when I delete the log and re-parse it. I know I'm doing something wrong, just don't know what.

    Anyway, thanks for the remarks guys. Still waiting for some new ideas. Post links if there are other threads.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The mix of weapons works better than you'd think most of the time thanks to FAWx2. But, honestly, I have been wanting more damage in the front arc, especially since i can turn very well thanks to the TKC console. Turrets are just so... meh. And the Kinetic Beam does so little to shields... on top of that, the 2pc set trigger barely ever came up.

    The OP did say I was open to suggestions and constructive criticism, by the way. Maybe you missed that part. Anyway, I do wander the PvP threads from time to time to look for advice on builds and such, but most of the Sci/Sci builds I find are for healers. Healing is boring, and we all know it.

    I would welcome your build to be posted here, but... it's a Vesta... I already know you got some kind of DHC/DC fore weapon setup that I can't use. Post it if you like anyway.

    And before you ask, I very VERY rarely PvP. Still not comfortable enough with my build just yet. Pug games lead to a... randomness factor. I'd rather it not be against actual people I am forced to ride alongside rainbow cruisers and failscorts.
    .

    i actually refuse to use the aux cannons on the vesta for my "main" builds because it turns good, but not good enough.

    i found the best fleet recon weapon layout involved-

    2 single cannons, duel beam bank in front, 3 turrets in rear.

    rapid fire 1 and 2 tactical teams constantly being cycled= loads of pew. (and if you can get your hands on the cannons duty officers it makes it that much better)

    i also find then that running science powers that arnt dependent on aux to be the best- shockwaves/viral matrixs for the high end powers.

    if all you do is pve, there really isnt a need to be so "loaded" on healing powers. take a hazzard 1, transfer shields 2, science team and aux to sif and your'e usually good to go (and the mandatory emergency power to shields)

    i had an awesome thread somewhere that detailed several dps/cc/healer sci combos... but i cant seem to find it so i guess ill have to remake it at some point.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    i actually refuse to use the aux cannons on the vesta for my "main" builds because it turns good, but not good enough.

    i found the best fleet recon weapon layout involved-

    2 single cannons, duel beam bank in front, 3 turrets in rear.

    rapid fire 1 and 2 tactical teams constantly being cycled= loads of pew. (and if you can get your hands on the cannons duty officers it makes it that much better)

    i also find then that running science powers that arnt dependent on aux to be the best- shockwaves/viral matrixs for the high end powers.

    if all you do is pve, there really isnt a need to be so "loaded" on healing powers. take a hazzard 1, transfer shields 2, science team and aux to sif and your'e usually good to go (and the mandatory emergency power to shields)

    i had an awesome thread somewhere that detailed several dps/cc/healer sci combos... but i cant seem to find it so i guess ill have to remake it at some point.

    I am pretty 'loaded' on healing powers, but there's not many better things to take in those slots. IMO RSP is better than Aux2SIF for Sci ships simply because they have better shields. If a Sci ship's shields drop it's pretty much dead, no matter what heals it has. Having two copies of HE lets me clear any nasty plasma effects.

    I tried the single cannon/turret build and wasnt as impressed as I am by 3xDBB fore. What I may do is drop the aft arrays for turrets and use APB instead. It does annoy me to have to use my Lt Tac slot plus 2 Doff slots to get TT running most of the time.

    Did I mention I have lots of keybinds? When I say lots, I mean LOTS. Just about everything that I want running as often as possible, or big emergency use powers are on a keybind. Not the same key either. Let me put it this way: My mouse is capable of piloting my ship by itself. Abilities and weapons are all activated thru W, A, S, D, E, R, X, Spacebar, LeftShift and LeftAlt. I only have 3-4 abilities in my entire tray that are not attached to one of those keys, and those are things like Fleet Support and Science Fleet.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Feel free to check out some of my vids in my signature. I mostly pvp and mostly in my vesta now, but ill be posting some vids of me in other science ships of choice (fleet recon and nebula are my favorites) and I think I have some vids of me in my wells class.

    As for better powers-

    Hazzard 1, tractor beam 1, scramble sensors 1, transfer shields 2, shockwave 1, science team 3, viral matrix 3= best variety of science powers while keeping you heal friendly. Then the engineering powers= epts1 and aux to Sif 1.

    The scramble sensors 1 can easily be swapped for a fbp1 or a light hitting tykens rift 1 (works best if you fully spec for Polaron drain) and run Polarons.

    With that layout, and the cannons/turrets you can fly the recon like an escort for damage and control on pve against most targets (scramble doesn't work on cubes so take a tykens/fbp/energy siphion) or even a light hitting tractor repulsor.

    Rapid fire works in sync with tractor beam, hold the target and fire away at it until its killed.


    And I don't know why you brought up keybinds. I have nothing bound (as can be seen in my vids). I point and click my way to victory and I'm widely considered to be a "top" science captain in pvp.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • darthvicious666darthvicious666 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    Feel free to check out some of my vids in my signature. I mostly pvp and mostly in my vesta now, but ill be posting some vids of me in other science ships of choice (fleet recon and nebula are my favorites) and I think I have some vids of me in my wells class.

    As for better powers-

    Hazzard 1, tractor beam 1, scramble sensors 1, transfer shields 2, shockwave 1, science team 3, viral matrix 3= best variety of science powers while keeping you heal friendly. Then the engineering powers= epts1 and aux to Sif 1.

    The scramble sensors 1 can easily be swapped for a fbp1 or a light hitting tykens rift 1 (works best if you fully spec for Polaron drain) and run Polarons.

    With that layout, and the cannons/turrets you can fly the recon like an escort for damage and control on pve against most targets (scramble doesn't work on cubes so take a tykens/fbp/energy siphion) or even a light hitting tractor repulsor.

    Rapid fire works in sync with tractor beam, hold the target and fire away at it until its killed.


    And I don't know why you brought up keybinds. I have nothing bound (as can be seen in my vids). I point and click my way to victory and I'm widely considered to be a "top" science captain in pvp.

    Yeah, I love my fleet recon. I don't plan on flying anything else with this toon. (My Klingon is an Orion Tac TRIBBLE that is only just now leveling, but I want to get her a Guramba in the long run.)

    Scramble Sensors? I'm gonna have to watch those videos when I get home later... I always thought that was a junk power. I can imagine it'd be better in PvP, or against non-Borg PvE, but... anyway. I love FBP too, I may use that.

    I currently use 2 copies of ES2 to keep power levels up, and their levels down. I'd rather be using ES3 with deflector officers, but... they're not cooperating at the moment.

    I think I'll reorganize some of the powers to take advantage of my flow caps more... considering I'm getting flow cap consoles once we hit tier 3 diplomacy.

    Keybinds help a lot. It became such a hassle to me to have to click on every little thing all the time, especially with defensive abilities and heals. I died a lot when I was leveling due to that, and always wanted a way to activate abilities faster and more consistently. Keybinds work for me, your mileage may vary.
    STO Academy

    U.S.S. Ultima, NCC-100101-X, Fleet Recon Science Vessel
    U.S.S. Demi, NCC-100101-Z, Peregrine Fighter
    U.S.S. Spaceball 1, NCC-123456, Tuffli Class Freighter

    Glorious Melee Combat
  • blakk82blakk82 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    cool thread man im currently looking for a sci/sci damage setup for my Vesta (love that ship!!). it will be for PVE only. ill look at the pvp builds and maicake716's vids as well but I suck at making builds lol heres hoping I can find something
  • ghennkinsghennkins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I've been trying to find something that works for my Sci/Sci in pve. I've already tried the Necrobones guide to dps for scis and found it lacking (and pathetic).

    I have yet to find anything I really like...

    At the moment I play a drain build/trico nuke. With Sensor Scan -def debuf I can do heavy spike damage every other minute. That's my main gripe with it so far, inbetween cds I'm dead weight and our sci ships lack the tac console slots and high boff tac skills to make big dents in enemy hp bars.

    But, I can help everyone elses' dps at the same time even though I doubt they really notice.


    It's just my opinion but I think all the sci ships fed side are just really terrible. All the best sci ships for us our lockbox or c-store. Very very few hybrid ships like Sci/Tac or Sci/Eng. Nebula is Sci/Eng but the Sci/Tacs are that one fleet ship and lockbox ships. Gripe whine wah wah etc etc.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The only thing a sci captain in a sci ship can do nowadays thats worth a damn is gravity well.

    And lo, tac capt. in sci ship does it better. (sigh).

    Anyways... try this:

    Ship: Fleet Recon Science Vessel

    Fore: 2x Phased Disruptor Beam Arrays Mk11 (whatever mods you can get them with), harpeng torpedo.
    Aft: 2x Phased Disruptor Beam Arrays Mk11 (whatever mods you can get them with), 1x breen cluster torpedo (if you have skills for torp otherwise stick to full beams).

    These disruptors drain power and put in the disruptor 10% debuff to resists proc.

    Omega Full Set

    Devices:
    Weapon Battery
    Red Matter Capacitor
    Subspace Field Modulator

    Eng: Zero Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module
    Sci: 3x Field Generator Mk XI (Blue), Tachyokinetic Converter
    Tac: 4x Disruptor Consoles.

    Tac BOffs: 1x TT1, 1xBO1, 1X Attack Pattern Beta1
    Eng BOff: EPtW1, EPTS2
    Sci BOffs: 2X HE1, 1x TBR1, 1x TSS2, 1xGW1, 1XTSS3, GW3

    Its a simple build and very effective (for a sci/sci ship anyway):

    Your good turn rate is used to keep broadside on target. Weapons drain power and put 10% debuff.

    Atk Beta + Sci Capt -resist ability + Disruptor + native subsystem engine attack = target engine disabled, massively hull debuffed ... and you dump a GW3 on it. With GW doffs you can get 2 or 3 anomalies every time.

    Since you bunch a lot of ships with grav well, you only need to snare the weakest and pop him to make his explosion hurt the others in the well.

    Harpeng torpedo is aoe damage on impact, dot on target, aoe explosion on detonation. When all inside a grav well...you get the idea.

    GW3 and 1 provide non-stop excellent long term PVE snare+damage to help team.

    Your ship consoles and weapon systems can be spiked for BO1 with emg to wep for a finishing blow if needed.

    Tanking comes from EPTS2, dual HE1 and dual TSS. This provides you with a really good, strong, nonstop heal-over-time shield tank and perma-cleansing+healing hazard. If you want to be healer of another ship this setup allows you to do so.

    You have repulsors 1 for utility. Nothing saves the day like a ship that can push ships away from stuff that will make the STF fail. Its also quite nifty to plug Atk Beta+disruptor proc+sci capt debuff , slam repulsors and evasive maneuvers and take the poor SOB for a ride as his hull takes more than repulsor 3 damage...and finish him off with a BO1.

    Weapon wise the harpeng, breen cluster and your BO1 are your damage dealers. BO1 is to be used only if shields are down. I do not suggest fire at will because when used at targets inside a grav well the short time you have will likely not inflict the disruptor debuff on them plus the diluted damage will merely hurt shields a bit during the time they are inside the well. Its much better to punch one ship out and have its explosion rip the shields and most of the hull of the others and then punch those in...chain explosion is what you go for.

    Best of all, this setup works great vs. big targets like tac cubes. Disable engines, pop GWELL and debuffs and watch its hull just drop as your harpeng and breen cluster spike hull damage.

    Omega full set is not a tanking kit per say but it does give you tetryon glider which is a GREAT help to team and it gives you the gravitic anchor which is a massive resist debuff plus a turn rate nullifier. IDEAL for tac cubes and other biggies.
  • xgorillapxxgorillapx Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I would check out this build.
    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=GorillaPFleetReconSci_2596

    In regards to your consoles. I would definitely use a good graviton and particle generator console, as well as maxing out your skills in those areas.

    Get a blue/purple gravimetric scientist doff for aftershock gravity wells. This can be HUGE. Also make sure your auxiliary power is at maximum prior to popping just about all of your science skills, especially grav well. You will notice huge gains in shield transfer strength, and hazard emitters here as well.

    Science ships will benefit heavily from the Romulan hyper-plasma torpedos as it doesnt require modifiers to be devastating.
  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Hiya Darth. I rather like your build. It's too bad you have to be so defensive at the start of your OP. A few people don't get that there happens to be a PvE portion of this game, that some players (such as myself) prefer to play. I appreciate that they may be awesomesauce in PvP (and really I do respect their skill), it's just sad that some feel the need to poo-poo builds that may not have merit in their world. As you say, this is a PvE build, and from what I can see, it would be successful and fun to play!

    Myself... Well, for three years I've just not been able to get Sci to work for me (mostly playing Tac in a Cruiser), I now have two Sci/Scis I've been playing lately, and having a really fun time with them.

    The first is Pym, in an MMRE Aventine ("Tactical Vesta"). It's a dual Energy Siphon build, like yours, but I use Phasers. For aesthetics (the ship is "Enterprise"-like in appearance, it seems fitting to go Fed canon), but also I use the ship's Aux DHC and Quantum Field Focus Phaser (the latter is so very cool/fun to use) and wanted to get the most use out of my four TAC consoles. I do have Mk XI versions of the Romulan Flow Cap Sci Consoles. Threat reducing and they add stacking plasma procs to my phasers. I also have the Rom HyperTorp mounted front (w/Purple Torp DOff) and just a few days ago got Elite Scorpion Fighters, so there is plasma torp spam everywhere.

    The other is T'pe, and she flys a Wells all-plasma build. Romulan Prototype Beam, DBB, and Rom HyperTorps up front, Romulan Turrets in back (Disruptor/Plasma hybrids). She rotates 2x APB to constantly debuff her foe and increase the burn. More Romulan Consoles (Particle Gens, this time) to reduce Threat and buff Plas. T'pe also has a very high native Crit (about 10%), not counting weapon tags. Much of her damage comes from there.

    Both ships are loaded with TB and GWs (inc Purple Grav DOffs) for control. T'pe has TBR too, but I find too often I can't use it because there are many times it would be too disadvantageous to push away my foes. That being said, it has come in handy some times (like if the Kang guard can't keep the spawns away).

    Personally I love Gravity Well 3. Especially with a Purple DOff. I'm not too concerned with the damage it does by itself (though T'pe's spec'd and high-aux Well does 1-1.2k/tick before crits), but I love the power's visual, love the "crowd control" effect, and love watching a whole squad of spheres bathing in plasma fire constantly being re-added by the AoE effect of the Rom Torps, bouncing off each other, and finally, mass-chain-reaction warp core breaches are awesome.

    Pym's original build (back when I tried to get her to work in other Sci vehicles and even Escorts) included fully spec'd Tetryons. Love how they looked (like lightning!), but man, I just couldn't get the feel for them. I even tried the Pol/Tet hybrids. Neither seemed to do any damage to anything (shields included). >shrug< I'm glad they are working for you though!!

    You mention that Deflector Officers are bugged and aren't working for ES or Tach Beam... Huh. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've noticed any effect from the ones I've got loaded. I'll have to double-check that. Something I should look for in particular?

    I don't think either of these toons use Field Generators. ...I'm not at home at the moment, so can't remember for sure. I'm pretty certain Pym doesn't. With the high shields on both ships, I haven't needed them. As mentioned, I use Romulan Sci Consoles. Mk XI for now, Mk XII when my fleet gets that far.

    Particle Generator vs. Flow Caps consoles. T'pe uses the former, Pym the latter. But Pym's build is all about the siphons, and her powers that use pg seem good enough without buffing (though, again, T'pe's GW3 is awesome!).

    You brought up Fleet Weapons. You're right, I haven't been too impressed with the tags. Also, the Advanced are any flavor, but Elite are faction specific. I don't use any of those. T'pe does use a Mk XII Fleet Deflector, though. I can't remember all the stats, but one I do like is that it reduces the cool down on her Sci abilities which works well with the 2-pc MACO set power Magnetoplasma Relays (more ability CD reduction).

    Pym is currently using Aegis (love the visuals, too... Yay Tron!). On Sunday night she'll reach T5 Omega Rep and I'll put her in Mk XII Omega set. I think the Tet Glider is gonna be awesome for her drain build.

    I understand why you don't use Wet Potatoes, Kitchen Sinks, etc. I do just want to say that the Romulan Hyper-Torpedoes really are quite effective, even if you don't spec into them. A blue or purple Torp DOff and they rock! I especially love how they acquire new targets if their original one dies before they get there. It isn't always the "best" target, but it's better than being totally wasted.

    Finally, you made what I took as a throw away comment about Subsystem Targetting. I love using SST. I rotate through all four regularlly. Being only the T1 version, they aren't too powerful, but seeing as how they are free and their effects are noticeable (especially vs. Engines and Weapons), why not use them, eh? Pym's, being skilled, are great!

    Anyway... I've rambled on long enough. I like your ship, and am glad it works for you. I keep meaning to post the full build for both Pym and T'pe. If you're interested, I'll link them here when I do.

    Happy Hunting!

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
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