"Don't bother with 1-20 content." "Who plays those anyway?"
I can't believe people can miss the point so badly.
I'm going to spell this out as simply as possible.
A complete faction = a complete game experience. This always implicitly includes some kind of story mode, which always means some story missions.
News flash, the KDF has been almost nothing but repeatable content since day 1, and you know what? It sucked. It still sucks. Repeatable missions are not fun when you only have repeatable missions to do. People get burned out on doing the same thing over and over. The faction-neutral missions are a welcome breather from time to time from the grind, and the more we got, the better it was.
And what about new players? Are you so selfish that you'd rather leave the KDF as a clearly unfinished mess just because you don't feel like running Alpha again? The arrogance of it! New players deserve a quality experience and you have no right to demand it be foregone because it doesn't fit your idea of practicality. To claim you want the faction improved, and then to reject one of the critical things that will improve it, seems... counter-intuitive.
How would we get more value, perceived or otherwise, out of putting in missions from 1-20 instead of some Lore content aimed at higher levels? What about some KDF only STFs? What about some KDF missions that involve espionage? What about turning some of the KDF marauding Doff chains into actual missions? What about getting rid of Klingon fleets and putting in House mechanics instead?
Content for max-levels and story do not have to be antonyms. Nor are repeatable and story missions. Again it's false to claim that they are opposite things by necessity, but I see the reluctance to accept that given Cryptic's poor track record. I guess I just dare to dream.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
To me 1-25 levels are what i hope story missions are for. I dont give a monkeys about skill points to level up for levels 1-25 i want to play about 20 story missions or whatever the fed equivalent is for kdf. Purely for doing story missions, that last about a 30 mins to a hour each like fed ones did when u first went through em.
Ships for low levels im sure a few can be knocked up, missions primary focus of 1-25 and not for leveling up tho if crytpic lets ppl start at level 1 im sure it would be nice for new players or new toons to do them regardless. Tho i still refuse to assign low levels purely looked at for leveling. Im a level 50 toon on kdf and i want more story missions like i did when i played my fed at 1-25 but for the kdf with their own story. I dont really want to play some fed based story with my kdf even tho the end game is kinda cross faction stuff, but for 1-25 i would like to hope its very kdf driven story content about houses of klingons fighting, political turmoil in the empire, corrupt leadership as usual etc.
I don't think we need level 1-20 content, I like being able to make new characters at level 20.
What KDF needs is more endgame ships to equal to what Fed has. Also would be nice to have more uniform options, and more ship skins, especially for ships that only have 1 skin. Another warzone are similar to Kerrat with open pvp between Fed and KDF with different objectives would also be great endgame content for many KDF players.
If STO offered a unique 1-20 levelling experience for KDF via story missions, I'd want to play that.
I have one max-level KDF Orion, levelled mostly through running FE's and replaying the few missions available. No other KDF characters worth discussing as I'm not invested in them yet.
But I've got to say this: I have no context for understanding the place an Orion occupies in the KDF. The "Orion Experience" simply isn't there. Same goes for the Gorn, Nausicaan, Ferasan, and Lethean.
Until there is enough content to truly bring the Klingon Empire to life and bring life to these subcultures, it's not done.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
If STO offered a unique 1-20 levelling experience for KDF via story missions, I'd want to play that.
I have one max-level KDF Orion, levelled mostly through running FE's and replaying the few missions available. No other KDF characters worth discussing as I'm not invested in them yet.
But I've got to say this: I have no context for understanding the place an Orion occupies in the KDF. The "Orion Experience" simply isn't there. Same goes for the Gorn, Nausicaan, Ferasan, and Lethean.
Until there is enough content to truly bring the Klingon Empire to life and bring life to these subcultures, it's not done.
Agreed. Although I can see the argument that the Fed side doesn't really get race-specific that often either, it's just the Federation.
The flip side is that textually, the KDF is more Klingon-specific than alliance-specific; however, if they are the conquerors, then maybe that's the way it is intended. There is quite a bit of dialogue that does not make as much sense when spoken to -- or by -- non-Klingon characters, though.
Even if the KDF were to stay at it's current level range, they'd still need new episodes or some sort of mid-level content.
Feds can level easily from 1-50 by simply running episodes and never have to resort to griding. Episodes alone provide enough XP to level and there is a lot of side content (e.g. patrol missions). KDF get to a point where they'll have to grind or repeat episodes in order to reach the minimum level requirement for the next episode. Even when using XP boosts, it still isn't enough. It gets very annoying at ~39/40 when moving towards the Deferi/Breen episodes.
I love the fact there are so many pessimistic posters here. In the past, from memory they (Cryptic) have never outright said they were going to work on the Klingons. Recently, they have. Whether I'm a fool to believe them is yet to be decided, but I do believe them.
As for what the KDF needs; simply put, the following:
- Level 1 - 50 Content (inc new Tutorial)
- Another one (or) two playable species / bridge officers
- More Missions (campaign)
- A Ferasan Ship (or two)
- PvP/PvE
- More Clothes (fix the colour of current ones too) and Hair Styles
I'm not actually that bothered about other ships. The Klingons aren't know for a vast variety anyway, and you've got some extras with the Gorn and Orion (ect) ships. The only thing they could improve on (where ships are concerned) is the ability to kitbash a few of the current designs. Some of them are specific to one ship, rather than ship type. Would be nice if we could mix them up a little.
Unlike most of the FED ships which have x4 variants per class, I'd settle for x2 each with the Klingons.
I love the fact there are so many pessimistic posters here. In the past, from memory they (Cryptic) have never outright said they were going to work on the Klingons. Recently, they have. Whether I'm a fool to believe them is yet to be decided, but I do believe them.
As for what the KDF needs; simply put, the following:
- Level 1 - 50 Content (inc new Tutorial)
- Another one (or) two playable species / bridge officers
- More Missions (campaign)
- A Ferasan Ship (or two)
- PvP/PvE
- More Clothes (fix the colour of current ones too) and Hair Styles
I'm not actually that bothered about other ships. The Klingons aren't know for a vast variety anyway, and you've got some extras with the Gorn and Orion (ect) ships. The only thing they could improve on (where ships are concerned) is the ability to kitbash a few of the current designs. Some of them are specific to one ship, rather than ship type. Would be nice if we could mix them up a little.
Unlike most of the FED ships which have x4 variants per class, I'd settle for x2 each with the Klingons.
Listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
How would we get more value, perceived or otherwise, out of putting in missions from 1-20 instead of some Lore content aimed at higher levels? What about some KDF only STFs? What about some KDF missions that involve espionage? What about turning some of the KDF marauding Doff chains into actual missions? What about getting rid of Klingon fleets and putting in House mechanics instead?
It shouldn't be instead of, it should be in addition to. KDF is screwed over from both sides: lack of early level content and lack of endgame content, relative to the Federation. There is absolutely no incentive to play a KDF character right now, unless you're one of those fans who dress up in full armor, put ridges on your forehead, and can recite from memory the entirety of Hamlet in its original Klingon. Or you're one of those fans who like taking your Orion bikini babes over to Drozana.
Early level content is crucial, however, because it gives new players the chance to experience KDF from the beginning. Right now, it's all Fed for the first 25 levels, then KDF if they feel like. But most people, since they're used to Fed and have already spent time going halfway to the level cap, will stick with Fed. Yes, a lot of us have no problem grinding a new character in a few days as an extra dilithium source, but we're in the minority and need to recognize this. We're also very pessimistic regarding the amount of new players that are brought in, or the possibility of another influx of new players in the future. If these new players only learn of playable KDF when they're halfway through the game, most of them won't care. If the first thing they see when they sign in for the first time is "Choose your side, Starfleet or KDF?" a lot more of them will be interested in KDF.
Endgame content is very, very nice, but at the end of the day it's a reward for the current playerbase more than an incentive for new players to try out KDF. Having KDF available from the first log-in screen and giving them the same amount of content as a new Fed player gets is what will increase the playerbase more. Ideally, we'll have both, since KDF desperately needs both, but if you want to expand the KDF playerbase, early level content is more important.
I reckon that you should be able to choose the faction you want to play from the character creation menu from day one, its not fair allowing people only to create a Klingon once you have created a fed and reached a certain level.
We all know that once you have gotten to the required level to create a Klingon if you choose, you pretty much already understand the basics of STO (if your a new player) you've gotten your feet under the captains table*no pun intended and your hungry for more Federation content, start exploring, finding useful information about content, you even discover content you can purchase...WOOP WOOP! this is when the money starts flowing in for development of new content, fixing bugs, QA *cough*, marketing, wages etc.
However under the current system I'd say the majority revenue is generated via the Federation faction, everybody knows that (I can see the logic) as money does not grow on tree's nor can it be replicated, it has to come from developed content however checks and balances need to be made....for the love of Klingon and Gagh!...and more important a market which could generate you folks some money
Therefore for this to work lower Klingon content has to be made, take some inspiration from the foundry if your struggling to create the missions, I am sure the creators love the recognition, furthermore would I be wrong in thinking the foundry can't work both ways? content for us to create & play but also for the developers to use in case they hit a creative brick wall or the big dude in the office accidentally rubs all the cool upcoming klingon ideas you guys have mustered for months off the whiteboard?
My last point - why so many Klingon tutorials?! Its driving folk bonkers, and its not a great opening pitch to sell the Klingon side....Get rid of em and create something new! xD
i think the kdf endgame is good enough for now.
kdf do need to start at level 1 though. i reckon they should leverage the foundry and its members to get a viable lvl 1 kdf toon.
as it is, this isnt good for the kdf. already kdf are thought of by the majority as mere 'alts'. let new accounts start out kdf and let the feddies be lowly alts for a change.
If STO offered a unique 1-20 levelling experience for KDF via story missions, I'd want to play that.
I have one max-level KDF Orion, levelled mostly through running FE's and replaying the few missions available. No other KDF characters worth discussing as I'm not invested in them yet.
But I've got to say this: I have no context for understanding the place an Orion occupies in the KDF. The "Orion Experience" simply isn't there. Same goes for the Gorn, Nausicaan, Ferasan, and Lethean.
Until there is enough content to truly bring the Klingon Empire to life and bring life to these subcultures, it's not done.
Agreed. Although I can see the argument that the Fed side doesn't really get race-specific that often either, it's just the Federation.
The flip side is that textually, the KDF is more Klingon-specific than alliance-specific; however, if they are the conquerors, then maybe that's the way it is intended. There is quite a bit of dialogue that does not make as much sense when spoken to -- or by -- non-Klingon characters, though.
Thing is, you expect the Federation to be multi-cultural and one-big-happy. While cultural differences would certainly add to the flavor, they aren't really necessary -- although even then Vulcan attitudes are not well-represented by dialogue choices.
On the KDF side, there's not a whole lot of explanation for why these very different cultures are able to co-exist and why Klingons would treat them as anything but cannon fodder. The only thing they really have in common is that they're all warlike or mercenary. If Klingons are the conquerors, then why are Orions allowed to command Klingon warships?
I've always felt that the game should be able to detect character attributes such as class, gender, and race that can be leveraged to provide different options in dialogue and even in objectives. And that functionality also needs to be pushed out to the Foundry.
If we had that, the game could go to a whole new level for everybody.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
so here i am, back for the first time in a year, after playing sw:tor.......and i see that the kdf still doesn't seem to be up to par, given this threads very existence........
sigh
and why am i an ensign with a feb2013 join date when i'm a lifetime sub. rollseyes.gif
forum merge to the PWE forums..yep.. frustrtaing.. looks like we finally get more KDF this year in the next season.. not sure what they're gonna throw us, better be more then a bone though.. ... or we may damand the cook.. *SNARL*
On the KDF side, there's not a whole lot of explanation for why these very different cultures are able to co-exist and why Klingons would treat them as anything but cannon fodder. The only thing they really have in common is that they're all warlike or mercenary. If Klingons are the conquerors, then why are Orions allowed to command Klingon warships?
Back in the Enerprise, and TOS series it was a different Empire..the Praxis incedent came within a hairs breath of ending the empire. The Klingon empire is multicultural now.. of course.. they're a bit more "picky" about the types of species they'll share power with.. Weaklings and the honorless need not apply. And they are willing to make adjustments if what is provided is unique
((honestly, you think the Klingons were going to turn down the Orions? all those marvelous untamed, vicious, and utturly delicious women! Are you nuts???))
There is an old truism in history that over time enemies tend to become more alike. The Empire was loosing ground to the federation. Adapt or die.. they Adapted. Simnple as that.
The KDF has just as much end game content as Fed so there needs not to be more.
This is the point right there. The KDF keeps up in terms of end-game. And has since the very first patch. The whole crux of the faction being "incomplete" is that the journey from 1 to 50 was, and still is, incomplete. That's what people want finished.
And that's what Cryptic "promised" they'd finish year after year after year, but never have.
It's absolutely entertaining at this point to see it still be such an issue, when you consider that if they had done just one tiny mission per month over the three year span of this game's life, the faction would be almost complete by now.
The simplest solution are missions that scale, so if you want to start over at level 1 and raise through the ranks you can enjoy the game that way, or you can have your preexisting Lt. General playing souped up verisons of the same missions. Everybody wins.
Also people forget the foundry content which is always growing.
And defend the empire missions like the Kaless Expanse.
One thing I would love to see is Mission Arc the focuses on the other races of the Klingon Empire. Maybe you start with the Gorn homeworld, move onto the Nausicaans, Orions New home world, Trill Colony, Leathean homeworld, and finally the Ferasans homeworld. Really get into the how these species and worlds deal with being in the empire and thier own cultures and history.
Plus I'd love to see a Ferasan and Lethean ships, a Trill ship shared with the Federation, and more fleet verisons race ships, like the Fleet Grumba, Fleet Dacoit, and Fleet Maurader for example.
The simplest solution are missions that scale, so if you want to start over at level 1 and raise through the ranks you can enjoy the game that way, or you can have your preexisting Lt. General playing souped up verisons of the same missions. Everybody wins.
If you think that's simple, you should have seen what happened the first time max-level Klingons encountered scaled-up Federation mobs. Two healers in the NPC group could take literally HOURS to burn down, if you could burn them down at all.
Scaling is hard.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
To be really nit picky, the "simplest solution" is the one that Cryptic has done for three years. Which was to promise stuff but not spend time or resources on that stuff and do other stuff instead.
It kept hope alive, and customers still sticking around. But involved practically no resources or effort on their resource strapped team.
This is the point right there. The KDF keeps up in terms of end-game. And has since the very first patch. The whole crux of the faction being "incomplete" is that the journey from 1 to 50 was, and still is, incomplete. That's what people want finished.
And that's what Cryptic "promised" they'd finish year after year after year, but never have.
It's absolutely entertaining at this point to see it still be such an issue, when you consider that if they had done just one tiny mission per month over the three year span of this game's life, the faction would be almost complete by now.
At the present time, they could drop the KDF story missions down a bunch of levels. Missions in the game already have features that scale things up to your level. If you don't beleive me, have a VA escort Sokketh to P'Jem. Hehe.... With that feature now in place only a select few missions need to be reserved for higher levels.... maybe not even them. (such as Gates of Grethor, one of the rewards is a VA level unique item)
If levels 1 to 20 was added, I will create a new KDF character, but I don't want to play the Klingon side of UFP missions, I want KDF missions. There are three other main races of the KDF, why don't they have start up missions from their homeworlds. A new Klingon species character can go to those worlds doing similar things.
Too bad this question was not more directed at KDF players.
Feddies only come over to dabble in our faction.
Personally, I haven't finished an episode chain nor do I really care to.
I, like many other KDF hardcores, ranked my first few KDF characters in PVP so this incessant cry for missions really does not speak for me or my wants.
Give more the freedom to kill feddies and bring war to them properly.
They should be too busy defending themselves and their sectors to even consider rolling a KDF alt for "kicks".
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Some said "the KDF has just as much end game content as the Federation"
This NOT TRUE. The KDF mission progression from 20-50 goes by faster with fewer missions that award more XP to make up for the lack of mission content. And please for the record let us note that FE mission content is used to fill in the gaps. The problem with that is the FE hat tmissions are supposed to be missions from 2409 forward. They should be the biginning of the "end game" content, along with STF's, fleet missions, etc.
Please Fed player be aware the Federation players have around 100-120 system patrol missions just by themselves along with several specific federation story arcs with out even touching the FE's.
Fed players don't even need to touch the "featured missions" to progress. These are all missions the Federation players have had in game since STO launched. Many of the newer players don't even know they exist! And all of them have been redone with scalable difficulty and mission rewards once you get out of the sector block with Sol in it (I belive..some may still need to be done but I'm pretty sure here...)
KDF players almost have to grind through the Featured Missions path to progress unless they just want to grind through exploration zones etc.
I have 6 KDF toons.. trust me when I tell you that the third time through grinding through the EXACT SAME MISSIONS is really really booring. Fed side you have options, KDF side.. not so much kids, not so much at all.
And that is what we KDF types want CHANGED. Daniel STahl once asked inan interview/pod cast "DO KDF players want "the horde" (wow reference) in space?"
the answer is.. Yes, yes we do, we want a compleate faction experience from character generation to end game content, just like any and every other multi faction MMO on the market.
Now, may never actually get that (we realize this realisticly and NO, we are not happy with it) be it is what we really would like to see. Storys from a KDF pov. some re-writes/re-mastering of the FE's to make the KDF versions make a LOT MORE SENSE. (a number of them do not..there are a couple holes in the 2800 that dont make sense..and the rest of the FE's have issues from the KDF viewpoint).
The KDF is not just the "red" side. they are a dynamic, growing, society based apon a warrior ethos, with a very strong emphisis on personal honor, yet in a societal structure that that is not as conformist, or homogenous as the Federation. (( we don't have the Vulcan influence, ok?, get over it!))
The KDF is part of the trek players experience.. and I find it amazing Fed players don't hope on the bandwagon in the true spirit of Roddenbery!
What a great opportunity to "Seek out now worlds, and new civilization" by exporing the galaxy from an entirely different point of view.
The KDF are the "westerners" of the current trek universe, the cowboys, the loose cannons, the untamed, the wild men, the non-conformists. With thier own ideas of what constitutes good and bad. They see the Federation as admirable, and honorable in its own right, but with some serious blind spots about just how dangerous a place the universe is. And they don't want to get caught in the Federations mistakes. Klingons spent a millenium as slaves to another race on thier own homeworld. this colors thier viewpoint. They will never surrender soverignty over thier own lives to any one else... not even thier own government..
ANd thats what makes them so different, and so enjoyable to play.
IMO, new players are drawn away from the KDF immediately by not being allowed to create a KDF character. By the time they could create a KDF character and came to realize it, they'd be knee deep into their FED character and not wish to start over.
By lvl 50, they've made many friends and found a fleet. Their next logical move is to make an ALT to play with their friends and there goes the F2P character slots to the FED side.
If they choose to create a second ALT so that they have one of each class (which is common), they will play that up long before thinking of starting fresh on KDF. Even than, it's because their FED fleet has a KDF alt fleet.
You can debate about the logic of what I am saying all you want, but the fact is that new players are forced into FED side and not given the chance to try out the other faction until they are committed to their FED toon, their FED friends and their FED fleet.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
Some said "the KDF has just as much end game content as the Federation"
This NOT TRUE. The KDF mission progression from 20-50 goes by faster with fewer missions that award more XP to make up for the lack of mission content. And please for the record let us note that FE mission content is used to fill in the gaps. The problem with that is the FE hat tmissions are supposed to be missions from 2409 forward. They should be the biginning of the "end game" content, along with STF's, fleet missions, etc.
Please Fed player be aware the Federation players have around 100-120 system patrol missions just by themselves along with several specific federation story arcs with out even touching the FE's.
Fed players don't even need to touch the "featured missions" to progress. These are all missions the Federation players have had in game since STO launched. Many of the newer players don't even know they exist! And all of them have been redone with scalable difficulty and mission rewards once you get out of the sector block with Sol in it (I belive..some may still need to be done but I'm pretty sure here...)
KDF players almost have to grind through the Featured Missions path to progress unless they just want to grind through exploration zones etc.
I have 6 KDF toons.. trust me when I tell you that the third time through grinding through the EXACT SAME MISSIONS is really really booring. Fed side you have options, KDF side.. not so much kids, not so much at all.
...
nice said, but...
the progression now is so fast (DOFFing, PVP, dailies, foundry) that i am not even finishing the Romulan FE when hitting lvl50 on an KDF toon (just lvled 2 some 2 weeks ago)
i main and love the KDF, hate the FED experience, but if there is a possibility to play as a Romulan - ILL TAKE THE CHANCE.
They already stated that it is not profitable to deliver much more for KDF, so i am glad that we are kept on par with the FED's in terms of endgame content.
You see, FED will always be the biggest faction here and they will get their fluffy stuff. KDF, Romulans, every other coming faction will have to wait for it.
There will just NOT BE as much KDF PVE content as there is FED content. ever.
IMHO - the starting lvl difference is NOT the KDF problem (not entirely). The main problem lies in the sympathies of Cryptics customers.
1 - KDF is not visually appealing for most of Trekkies/young people discovering Trek through STO. Just take a look at what kind of "fashion" is featured in blockbuster movies...
(Romulans are the badass vulcans - you gotta love them and their style!)
2 - the KDF tutorial and the first 3 KDF missions are just BAD (while i love q'onos much). KDF story should start with the Fek'hiri..
3 - KDF low lvl PVP is dead (can be fixed by starting at lvl 1 with proper Dill rewards for both sides)
4 - while i learned to LOVE the red UI, i understand it is not everybody's style
IMO, new players are drawn away from the KDF immediately by not being allowed to create a KDF character. By the time they could create a KDF character and came to realize it, they'd be knee deep into their FED character and not wish to start over.
By lvl 50, they've made many friends and found a fleet. Their next logical move is to make an ALT to play with their friends and there goes the F2P character slots to the FED side.
If they choose to create a second ALT so that they have one of each class (which is common), they will play that up long before thinking of starting fresh on KDF. Even than, it's because their FED fleet has a KDF alt fleet.
You can debate about the logic of what I am saying all you want, but the fact is that new players are forced into FED side and not given the chance to try out the other faction until they are committed to their FED toon, their FED friends and their FED fleet.
this could be easily solved by BINDING the second free toon slot to KDF
I don't think anyone is expecting equal content duaths1. I myself just want the new player's character creation bias to stop. The game was originally designed with two equal, but competing factions that got the kibosh because of a rushed release date and Jack Emmert's disdain for all things KDF.
If Cryptic doesn't want to create the content allowing new players to start a KDF toon from 1-50, that's fine, but let's not punish them by a removal of faction choice for their ineptitude. Let them start a level 20 KDF as their first character if they so decide.
EDIT: @duaths1, I honestly would not have an issue with that, but I still see no justification of denying them access to the faction till they've played FED for 24 levels.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online!
I don't think anyone is expecting equal content duaths1. I myself just want the new player's character creation bias to stop. The game was originally designed with two equal, but competing factions that got the kibosh because of a rushed release date and Jack Emmert's disdain for all things KDF.
If Cryptic doesn't want to create the content allowing new players to start a KDF toon from 1-50, that's fine, but let's not punish them by a removal of faction choice for their ineptitude. Let them start a level 20 KDF as their first character if they so decide.
EDIT: @duaths1, I honestly would not have an issue with that, but I still see no justification of denying them access to the faction till they've played FED for 24 levels.
the game was originally designed with 3 equal factions and many more planned ...
yes, you are right, there HAS to be a possibility to start as KDF.
But it does not necessarily mean we do need 20 more KDF missions. What we need is a bloody, good, exciting tutorial for lvl 1 KDF with a catching story and to spread out the existing missions through the lvl process. If they will be able to add more, nice, if not, OK too. The lvling is really FAST so that is not the problem.
edit : you can lvl a toon standing on DS9 just by DOFFing in 20 days - without touching a daily, a PVP match or a FE after you get your first DOFF pack.. sad but true .. btw - the first 2 missions and the tutorial you are forced to play till you get the DOFF's are the worst ones of the KDF experience.
Comments
I can't believe people can miss the point so badly.
I'm going to spell this out as simply as possible.
A complete faction = a complete game experience. This always implicitly includes some kind of story mode, which always means some story missions.
News flash, the KDF has been almost nothing but repeatable content since day 1, and you know what? It sucked. It still sucks. Repeatable missions are not fun when you only have repeatable missions to do. People get burned out on doing the same thing over and over. The faction-neutral missions are a welcome breather from time to time from the grind, and the more we got, the better it was.
And what about new players? Are you so selfish that you'd rather leave the KDF as a clearly unfinished mess just because you don't feel like running Alpha again? The arrogance of it! New players deserve a quality experience and you have no right to demand it be foregone because it doesn't fit your idea of practicality. To claim you want the faction improved, and then to reject one of the critical things that will improve it, seems... counter-intuitive.
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Content for max-levels and story do not have to be antonyms. Nor are repeatable and story missions. Again it's false to claim that they are opposite things by necessity, but I see the reluctance to accept that given Cryptic's poor track record. I guess I just dare to dream.
Ships for low levels im sure a few can be knocked up, missions primary focus of 1-25 and not for leveling up tho if crytpic lets ppl start at level 1 im sure it would be nice for new players or new toons to do them regardless. Tho i still refuse to assign low levels purely looked at for leveling. Im a level 50 toon on kdf and i want more story missions like i did when i played my fed at 1-25 but for the kdf with their own story. I dont really want to play some fed based story with my kdf even tho the end game is kinda cross faction stuff, but for 1-25 i would like to hope its very kdf driven story content about houses of klingons fighting, political turmoil in the empire, corrupt leadership as usual etc.
What KDF needs is more endgame ships to equal to what Fed has. Also would be nice to have more uniform options, and more ship skins, especially for ships that only have 1 skin. Another warzone are similar to Kerrat with open pvp between Fed and KDF with different objectives would also be great endgame content for many KDF players.
I have one max-level KDF Orion, levelled mostly through running FE's and replaying the few missions available. No other KDF characters worth discussing as I'm not invested in them yet.
But I've got to say this: I have no context for understanding the place an Orion occupies in the KDF. The "Orion Experience" simply isn't there. Same goes for the Gorn, Nausicaan, Ferasan, and Lethean.
Until there is enough content to truly bring the Klingon Empire to life and bring life to these subcultures, it's not done.
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Agreed. Although I can see the argument that the Fed side doesn't really get race-specific that often either, it's just the Federation.
The flip side is that textually, the KDF is more Klingon-specific than alliance-specific; however, if they are the conquerors, then maybe that's the way it is intended. There is quite a bit of dialogue that does not make as much sense when spoken to -- or by -- non-Klingon characters, though.
Feds can level easily from 1-50 by simply running episodes and never have to resort to griding. Episodes alone provide enough XP to level and there is a lot of side content (e.g. patrol missions). KDF get to a point where they'll have to grind or repeat episodes in order to reach the minimum level requirement for the next episode. Even when using XP boosts, it still isn't enough. It gets very annoying at ~39/40 when moving towards the Deferi/Breen episodes.
As for what the KDF needs; simply put, the following:
- Level 1 - 50 Content (inc new Tutorial)
- Another one (or) two playable species / bridge officers
- More Missions (campaign)
- A Ferasan Ship (or two)
- PvP/PvE
- More Clothes (fix the colour of current ones too) and Hair Styles
I'm not actually that bothered about other ships. The Klingons aren't know for a vast variety anyway, and you've got some extras with the Gorn and Orion (ect) ships. The only thing they could improve on (where ships are concerned) is the ability to kitbash a few of the current designs. Some of them are specific to one ship, rather than ship type. Would be nice if we could mix them up a little.
Unlike most of the FED ships which have x4 variants per class, I'd settle for x2 each with the Klingons.
Listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
It shouldn't be instead of, it should be in addition to. KDF is screwed over from both sides: lack of early level content and lack of endgame content, relative to the Federation. There is absolutely no incentive to play a KDF character right now, unless you're one of those fans who dress up in full armor, put ridges on your forehead, and can recite from memory the entirety of Hamlet in its original Klingon. Or you're one of those fans who like taking your Orion bikini babes over to Drozana.
Early level content is crucial, however, because it gives new players the chance to experience KDF from the beginning. Right now, it's all Fed for the first 25 levels, then KDF if they feel like. But most people, since they're used to Fed and have already spent time going halfway to the level cap, will stick with Fed. Yes, a lot of us have no problem grinding a new character in a few days as an extra dilithium source, but we're in the minority and need to recognize this. We're also very pessimistic regarding the amount of new players that are brought in, or the possibility of another influx of new players in the future. If these new players only learn of playable KDF when they're halfway through the game, most of them won't care. If the first thing they see when they sign in for the first time is "Choose your side, Starfleet or KDF?" a lot more of them will be interested in KDF.
Endgame content is very, very nice, but at the end of the day it's a reward for the current playerbase more than an incentive for new players to try out KDF. Having KDF available from the first log-in screen and giving them the same amount of content as a new Fed player gets is what will increase the playerbase more. Ideally, we'll have both, since KDF desperately needs both, but if you want to expand the KDF playerbase, early level content is more important.
We all know that once you have gotten to the required level to create a Klingon if you choose, you pretty much already understand the basics of STO (if your a new player) you've gotten your feet under the captains table*no pun intended and your hungry for more Federation content, start exploring, finding useful information about content, you even discover content you can purchase...WOOP WOOP! this is when the money starts flowing in for development of new content, fixing bugs, QA *cough*, marketing, wages etc.
However under the current system I'd say the majority revenue is generated via the Federation faction, everybody knows that (I can see the logic) as money does not grow on tree's nor can it be replicated, it has to come from developed content however checks and balances need to be made....for the love of Klingon and Gagh!...and more important a market which could generate you folks some money
Therefore for this to work lower Klingon content has to be made, take some inspiration from the foundry if your struggling to create the missions, I am sure the creators love the recognition, furthermore would I be wrong in thinking the foundry can't work both ways? content for us to create & play but also for the developers to use in case they hit a creative brick wall or the big dude in the office accidentally rubs all the cool upcoming klingon ideas you guys have mustered for months off the whiteboard?
My last point - why so many Klingon tutorials?! Its driving folk bonkers, and its not a great opening pitch to sell the Klingon side....Get rid of em and create something new! xD
Thanks for reading, hope I've not been too harsh
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kdf do need to start at level 1 though. i reckon they should leverage the foundry and its members to get a viable lvl 1 kdf toon.
as it is, this isnt good for the kdf. already kdf are thought of by the majority as mere 'alts'. let new accounts start out kdf and let the feddies be lowly alts for a change.
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Thing is, you expect the Federation to be multi-cultural and one-big-happy. While cultural differences would certainly add to the flavor, they aren't really necessary -- although even then Vulcan attitudes are not well-represented by dialogue choices.
On the KDF side, there's not a whole lot of explanation for why these very different cultures are able to co-exist and why Klingons would treat them as anything but cannon fodder. The only thing they really have in common is that they're all warlike or mercenary. If Klingons are the conquerors, then why are Orions allowed to command Klingon warships?
I've always felt that the game should be able to detect character attributes such as class, gender, and race that can be leveraged to provide different options in dialogue and even in objectives. And that functionality also needs to be pushed out to the Foundry.
If we had that, the game could go to a whole new level for everybody.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
sigh
and why am i an ensign with a feb2013 join date when i'm a lifetime sub. rollseyes.gif
Back in the Enerprise, and TOS series it was a different Empire..the Praxis incedent came within a hairs breath of ending the empire. The Klingon empire is multicultural now.. of course.. they're a bit more "picky" about the types of species they'll share power with.. Weaklings and the honorless need not apply. And they are willing to make adjustments if what is provided is unique
((honestly, you think the Klingons were going to turn down the Orions? all those marvelous untamed, vicious, and utturly delicious women! Are you nuts???))
There is an old truism in history that over time enemies tend to become more alike. The Empire was loosing ground to the federation. Adapt or die.. they Adapted. Simnple as that.
Khemaraa sends
This is the point right there. The KDF keeps up in terms of end-game. And has since the very first patch. The whole crux of the faction being "incomplete" is that the journey from 1 to 50 was, and still is, incomplete. That's what people want finished.
And that's what Cryptic "promised" they'd finish year after year after year, but never have.
It's absolutely entertaining at this point to see it still be such an issue, when you consider that if they had done just one tiny mission per month over the three year span of this game's life, the faction would be almost complete by now.
Also people forget the foundry content which is always growing.
And defend the empire missions like the Kaless Expanse.
One thing I would love to see is Mission Arc the focuses on the other races of the Klingon Empire. Maybe you start with the Gorn homeworld, move onto the Nausicaans, Orions New home world, Trill Colony, Leathean homeworld, and finally the Ferasans homeworld. Really get into the how these species and worlds deal with being in the empire and thier own cultures and history.
Plus I'd love to see a Ferasan and Lethean ships, a Trill ship shared with the Federation, and more fleet verisons race ships, like the Fleet Grumba, Fleet Dacoit, and Fleet Maurader for example.
If you think that's simple, you should have seen what happened the first time max-level Klingons encountered scaled-up Federation mobs. Two healers in the NPC group could take literally HOURS to burn down, if you could burn them down at all.
Scaling is hard.
It kept hope alive, and customers still sticking around. But involved practically no resources or effort on their resource strapped team.
That's simple.
My character Tsin'xing
Feddies only come over to dabble in our faction.
Personally, I haven't finished an episode chain nor do I really care to.
I, like many other KDF hardcores, ranked my first few KDF characters in PVP so this incessant cry for missions really does not speak for me or my wants.
Give more the freedom to kill feddies and bring war to them properly.
They should be too busy defending themselves and their sectors to even consider rolling a KDF alt for "kicks".
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Some said "the KDF has just as much end game content as the Federation"
This NOT TRUE. The KDF mission progression from 20-50 goes by faster with fewer missions that award more XP to make up for the lack of mission content. And please for the record let us note that FE mission content is used to fill in the gaps. The problem with that is the FE hat tmissions are supposed to be missions from 2409 forward. They should be the biginning of the "end game" content, along with STF's, fleet missions, etc.
Please Fed player be aware the Federation players have around 100-120 system patrol missions just by themselves along with several specific federation story arcs with out even touching the FE's.
Fed players don't even need to touch the "featured missions" to progress. These are all missions the Federation players have had in game since STO launched. Many of the newer players don't even know they exist! And all of them have been redone with scalable difficulty and mission rewards once you get out of the sector block with Sol in it (I belive..some may still need to be done but I'm pretty sure here...)
KDF players almost have to grind through the Featured Missions path to progress unless they just want to grind through exploration zones etc.
I have 6 KDF toons.. trust me when I tell you that the third time through grinding through the EXACT SAME MISSIONS is really really booring. Fed side you have options, KDF side.. not so much kids, not so much at all.
And that is what we KDF types want CHANGED. Daniel STahl once asked inan interview/pod cast "DO KDF players want "the horde" (wow reference) in space?"
the answer is.. Yes, yes we do, we want a compleate faction experience from character generation to end game content, just like any and every other multi faction MMO on the market.
Now, may never actually get that (we realize this realisticly and NO, we are not happy with it) be it is what we really would like to see. Storys from a KDF pov. some re-writes/re-mastering of the FE's to make the KDF versions make a LOT MORE SENSE. (a number of them do not..there are a couple holes in the 2800 that dont make sense..and the rest of the FE's have issues from the KDF viewpoint).
The KDF is not just the "red" side. they are a dynamic, growing, society based apon a warrior ethos, with a very strong emphisis on personal honor, yet in a societal structure that that is not as conformist, or homogenous as the Federation. (( we don't have the Vulcan influence, ok?, get over it!))
The KDF is part of the trek players experience.. and I find it amazing Fed players don't hope on the bandwagon in the true spirit of Roddenbery!
What a great opportunity to "Seek out now worlds, and new civilization" by exporing the galaxy from an entirely different point of view.
The KDF are the "westerners" of the current trek universe, the cowboys, the loose cannons, the untamed, the wild men, the non-conformists. With thier own ideas of what constitutes good and bad. They see the Federation as admirable, and honorable in its own right, but with some serious blind spots about just how dangerous a place the universe is. And they don't want to get caught in the Federations mistakes. Klingons spent a millenium as slaves to another race on thier own homeworld. this colors thier viewpoint. They will never surrender soverignty over thier own lives to any one else... not even thier own government..
ANd thats what makes them so different, and so enjoyable to play.
Khemareaa sends
By lvl 50, they've made many friends and found a fleet. Their next logical move is to make an ALT to play with their friends and there goes the F2P character slots to the FED side.
If they choose to create a second ALT so that they have one of each class (which is common), they will play that up long before thinking of starting fresh on KDF. Even than, it's because their FED fleet has a KDF alt fleet.
You can debate about the logic of what I am saying all you want, but the fact is that new players are forced into FED side and not given the chance to try out the other faction until they are committed to their FED toon, their FED friends and their FED fleet.
nice said, but...
the progression now is so fast (DOFFing, PVP, dailies, foundry) that i am not even finishing the Romulan FE when hitting lvl50 on an KDF toon (just lvled 2 some 2 weeks ago)
i main and love the KDF, hate the FED experience, but if there is a possibility to play as a Romulan - ILL TAKE THE CHANCE.
They already stated that it is not profitable to deliver much more for KDF, so i am glad that we are kept on par with the FED's in terms of endgame content.
You see, FED will always be the biggest faction here and they will get their fluffy stuff. KDF, Romulans, every other coming faction will have to wait for it.
There will just NOT BE as much KDF PVE content as there is FED content. ever.
IMHO - the starting lvl difference is NOT the KDF problem (not entirely). The main problem lies in the sympathies of Cryptics customers.
1 - KDF is not visually appealing for most of Trekkies/young people discovering Trek through STO. Just take a look at what kind of "fashion" is featured in blockbuster movies...
(Romulans are the badass vulcans - you gotta love them and their style!)
2 - the KDF tutorial and the first 3 KDF missions are just BAD (while i love q'onos much). KDF story should start with the Fek'hiri..
3 - KDF low lvl PVP is dead (can be fixed by starting at lvl 1 with proper Dill rewards for both sides)
4 - while i learned to LOVE the red UI, i understand it is not everybody's style
this could be easily solved by BINDING the second free toon slot to KDF
If Cryptic doesn't want to create the content allowing new players to start a KDF toon from 1-50, that's fine, but let's not punish them by a removal of faction choice for their ineptitude. Let them start a level 20 KDF as their first character if they so decide.
EDIT: @duaths1, I honestly would not have an issue with that, but I still see no justification of denying them access to the faction till they've played FED for 24 levels.
the game was originally designed with 3 equal factions and many more planned ...
yes, you are right, there HAS to be a possibility to start as KDF.
But it does not necessarily mean we do need 20 more KDF missions. What we need is a bloody, good, exciting tutorial for lvl 1 KDF with a catching story and to spread out the existing missions through the lvl process. If they will be able to add more, nice, if not, OK too. The lvling is really FAST so that is not the problem.
edit : you can lvl a toon standing on DS9 just by DOFFing in 20 days - without touching a daily, a PVP match or a FE after you get your first DOFF pack.. sad but true .. btw - the first 2 missions and the tutorial you are forced to play till you get the DOFF's are the worst ones of the KDF experience.