A quick parting note: It's actually more useful to us Devs if the posts that you guys make focus on the particular balance concern you have, detailing why you consider it an issue, and stay away from recommending fixes. While many of you have fine ideas about repairing some of the concerns the community raises, there exists a tendency to skip to the "You can fix X by doing Y" part of leaving feedback, without first explaining to us why you feel X needs to be fixed to begin with.
Thanks for taking the time bort.
With the above said I'll restate my issue with DEM just to make sure the problem is understood and put it in a nice format for you.
I'm coming at this from an engineering captains perspective in an engy heavy cruiser. So Star Cruisers/Neg'vars and the like.
The Skill
Directed Energy Modulation
The Problem
DEM damage/penetration/bleed through, what ever you'd like to call it is in my experience by far not enough these days to warrant it's use by cruisers running beams. That and the cool down is 90s vs a 30s up time. Too long a down time.
It's great with the new doff that increases weapons power drain resistance, but that's the only reason to slot it.
Expanding on issue
Cruisers that can slot DEM2 and especially DEM3 have limited tac slots and typically are running with just regular beam arrays. In PvP they've no chance of getting through shields via brute force. I see DEM as a viable bypass shields option but it's just not effective even versus the weakest hulled bops as its penetration damage appears to be based off an archaic weapons power setting with fixed values and not actual weapons damage values shown in tooltips. ~40 damage per pulse is not useful, that's laughable.
Possible solution
A possible fix would be to give it x% bleed through values. Like maybe 40% energy weapons damage bleed through for DEM3. 20% for DEM2 and 10% for DEM1. Stack it so cruisers benefit from it more as they've limited tac abilities. Destroyer type class ships or HEC's and JHAS etc have access to DEM2 so it's the hard one to place, but DEM3 is squarely in the "I have little tac options" arena and should have it's biggest boost in that slot.
Each of the above powers are commander slot II and III. Why even use a II if you can just find a Bridge officer, or friendly player willing to train the version III of the power?
Another issue, is with powers being TOO powerful for their slot.
Powers like:
Polarized hull
Attack Pattern Omega
Tactical Team
Tractor Beam
Emergency power to Weapons
Emergency power to Engines
Emergency power to Aux
Science Team
Engineering Team
Hazard Emitters
Each of the powers listed above (With the exception partly of Science and Engineering teams) are all that's needed in an Ensign slot. Either their ability completely neutralize another, or an effect from that power, such as Science, Tactical, or Engineering team, completely defends against powers they can defend against. Such examples are, but not limited to:
Polarized hull 1 can defend against ANY Incoming Tractor beam. Same goes for Attack Pattern Omega 1
Tractor Beam, except vs. a target protecting themselves with the above counters, can hold any target.
Science team 1 can clear ANY Clearable debuff Regardless of how powerful it is.
Engineering Team 1 can clear any Disable regardless to how powerful it is.
Tactical team can clear any offensive debuff or disable regardless to how powerful it is.
An Emergency Power to Engines or Aux can provide a full clear vs a Disabled System regardless to how powerful the attack was. And Emergency power to engines I provides nearly all the speed boost needed from Emergency power to Engines.
I would expect Powers to be able to counter only powers of Equal or Lesser rank/slot to themselves. Or at least provide a reduced counter of some fashion.
For example:
Jam Sensors 3 or Scramble Sensors 3 should not be cleared by Science team 1, but a Science team 3 could auto clear it (if they don't break it themselves with Damage done)
A Tactical Team 1 Should not be able to defend against a Boarding Party 3.
An Engineering team 1 should not be enough to clear a Viral Matrix 3
An Emergency power to X 1 should not be a defense against a Target Subsystem: X 3
And finally I have to question..
Why is there a Dispersal Pattern Beta 3, but there is no Dispersal Pattern Alpha 3?
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The Problem
Dual Heavy Cannons out perform all other weapons by a massive amount especially when many weapons are equiped. This is because they only fire one shot per cycle allowing each shot to get the highest possible weapon power bonus to damage. All other cannons fire two shots per cycle and only half are at highest potential, and finally all beams fire four per cycle forcing three quarters of the shots to be at a low bonus.
Expanding on issue
This literally makes Dual Cannons worthless beyond being a trap to those who do not know. In addition it skews the performance of beam weaponry making them understandable on any ship unless you are unable to use the superior cannons for whatever reason. I realize that several things have been added to alleviate this problem but they are insificant for more reasons than I care to get into at the moment other than gaining drain resistance does improve beam damage by a greater % but still not by enough for them to compete against the Dual Heavies who do get an increase in damage output from them as well.
Possible solution
I don't care. Several potential options would be:
- Double beam damage per hit, reduce number of shots per cycle to two. This would require a Beam Overload adjustment.
- Decrease beam drain a tad.
- Introduce an efficient rear only beam similar to turrets that are more efficient
- Introduce a Heavy front only beam similar to DHCs that fire fewer shots per cycle but can broadside
- Add a boff ability (preferably engineering) that reduces weapon drain with significant up time.
- Increase accuracy of Beams, and/or further reduce their damage penalty at long ranges.
- Allow all ships to equip Dual Heavy Cannons and bump up turn rates by 2 (this is sarcasm).
I've compiled the feedback from this thread into a little "For Review" list for myself that's sitting on my Desktop for those rare occasions that I have spare cycles to work on it.
While I don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion on many of the points until I've had time to perform more thorough investigations, I can still comment on a few quick points of concern.
1) Photonic Shockwave Torpedo is benefiting from Photonic Studies doffs.
This is a bug, and I just checked in a fix for it. Thanks for pointing it out!
2) Lunge+Pounce should share a cooldown.
I absolutely agree, and this will happen. While there are additional concerns with Caitian/Ferasan racial Traits, this particular bullet point is easily addressed.
----
That's all I have for now, other than acknowledging the rest of your feedback, but there are too many individual bullet points to call out one-by-one. Thanks for keeping this thread constructive!
A quick parting note: It's actually more useful to us Devs if the posts that you guys make focus on the particular balance concern you have, detailing why you consider it an issue, and stay away from recommending fixes. While many of you have fine ideas about repairing some of the concerns the community raises, there exists a tendency to skip to the "You can fix X by doing Y" part of leaving feedback, without first explaining to us why you feel X needs to be fixed to begin with.
Regarding Photonic Doffs, I believe it was at some point the intent of Photonic Doffs to reduce the cooldown of the PSW Torp Console. Iirc there was a patch that did this. Personally, I'm fine w/it being removed, but you may get some pushback from others.
Also, I had an early post that brough up a couple of other things imo that are broken ie not working as intended.
The 1st is for @ least the KDF Vet console (not sure of Fed side) Aux2batt reduces the cooldown of the shield vamp ability.
The 2nd is the KDF Vet console can become stuck in one mode after being struck by trics. This reminds me of the old problem of weapons being stuck if hit by trics mid cycle.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I think it would be best, if Bort would just pick some of the most discussed/report thread here and make separate thread. One by One.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Another issue, is with powers being TOO powerful for their slot.
Powers like:
Polarized hull
Attack Pattern Omega
Tactical Team
Tractor Beam
Emergency power to Weapons
Emergency power to Engines
Emergency power to Aux
Science Team
Engineering Team
Hazard Emitters
Each of the powers listed above (With the exception partly of Science and Engineering teams) are all that's needed in an Ensign slot.
APO starts at Ltc, I'm sure that was just an oversight.
Either their ability completely neutralize another, or an effect from that power, such as Science, Tactical, or Engineering team, completely defends against powers they can defend against.
I think that's entirely the point of the design.
What you're suggesting would see Engisn slots become basically pointless for clearing anything that would in reality be used against you and would then force ships to sacrifice higher tier performance powers just to be able to clear debilitating effects.
While that might sound balanced in a "TRIBBLE for tat" kind of design, I personally think it would veer into "unfun" territory where you have to slot cleanses to debuffs in the very few, precious higher tier slots you get (a total of 3 out of 12 powers for most ships).
A better direction might be to have partial cleanses vs. the fairly binary off/on design of debuffs and cleanses we have now, but I think that ship has probably set sail a long time ago.
Operate Kit is now WORTHLESS if you are using a Caitain/Ferasan?
No. The two powers will just not be useable back-to-back any longer. Whatever the standard cooldown is (I haven't investigated it yet), triggering either will cause the other to go on a cooldown that is a portion of that amount.
In other words, if they each have a 30sec CD, firing either will put the other on a 10-15 Cooldown. You'll still be able to use these extremely similar abilities more frequently than a non-Caitian/Ferasan, just not in rapid succession.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Oh I forgot one. It's engineering consoles sucks. +4 power to ne ONE subsystem per console ? Diminished returns on armor consoles ? :rolleyes:
If you think its fine, then imagine if tac consoles would be only +10% dmg each, with diminished returns on top of it. And imagine the forum explosion it would cause.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
What you're suggesting would see Engisn slots become basically pointless for clearing anything that would in reality be used against you and would then force ships to sacrifice higher tier performance powers just to be able to clear debilitating effects.
While that might sound balanced in a "TRIBBLE for tat" kind of design, I personally think it would veer into "unfun" territory where you have to slot cleanses to debuffs in the very few, precious higher tier slots you get (a total of 3 out of 12 powers for most ships).
A better direction might be to have partial cleanses vs. the fairly binary off/on design of debuffs and cleanses we have now, but I think that ship has probably set sail a long time ago.
If perhaps it was more like this, it might also be ok:
A Tier I power can negate a Tier I power, and Reduce in effectiveness other powers it defends against by 35%
A Tier II Power can negate a Tier II or lesser power and reduce in effectiveness any higher tier power by 70%
A Tier III Power can negate any power of tier III or lesser.
This would give a reason to use powers like Polarized Hull III, Tactical Team III, More reasons for Science team III and Engineering Team III.
Hazard Emitters would be similar, except concerning Plasma Dots. It could probably be changed to instead Effect an amount of Dots, including Warp plasma. Where Tier I could perhaps clear a maximum of 2 or 3 Dots. Tier II could Clear a maximum of 4 or 6 Dots. And Tier III could clear all Dots for it's Duration.
Also, Haxard Emitters really needs to decide WHAT it can clear. Because right now it can clear not only Plasma Dots, but Energy Siphon as well. I think there's more it can clear, but I can't recall the others at this time.
Also the thoughts are to change things so that it becomes more important to have ships with those slots available in a PVP situation to be able to defend against those other powers in a more worth while fashion. It would also make it so that Escorts suddenly will want those ships along with them, instead of being the "I can do it all" ships they have become lately. Including vs. PVE.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Balancing around duels is silly... it's an MMO, hard fact is that you're supposed to go out and make friends. STO is already about as close to a single-player online experience as is.
The ships are (or were originally) balanced around team roles because duel-focused setups would result in a stale sort of rock-paper-scissors.
Ironically, rewriting the game for duels would far more likely result in more player frustration with PvP, because you'd have much less power as an individual to make an impact on your team's performance.
As stands, an Engie Ody played right can tank two or three players more or less forever. Healers are intended to be far more than merely self-sufficient, though, because it allows them to fill a useful role for their team and not just for themselves. I think that's a good thing and while the ebb and flow of balancing may swing one way or the other, I wouldn't want to see that fundamentally change.
I guess this risks derailing the debate, let's just say that to this matter, there are different opinions available.
Ye well, sadly around these parts you are the only one who wants to balance the game around duels :P
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Jump height can be used to exploit ... into the ceiling and shoot down at players without them being able to shoot you back.
1)That's no different then any other cover on a X or Y Axis.
2)Even without the jump, if your having trouble shooting why are allowing another to dedicate where you fight?
It takes two to fight. Go around, or find your cover. Problem solved. You don't have to fight them, or they have to abandon their cover to follow. "If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
3)That's a issue with level design, and your swatting a fly with a nuke. There is a great deal of fun to be had exploring places that have absolutely nothing to do with any form of combat.
+10 Perception ... passive as good as other PvP viable ground passives, even without the dodge bonus or jump height. ...
Ground is what they're designed around. Why shouldn't they shine on the ground? They do not shine as easily in space.
I will not argue I like it, but to say it that doesn't compare side by side to Aggressive, Telepathic, Seduce, Rapture, Borg Neural Blast, Nerve Pinch, or Rapture?
Not to be rude, but it sounds to me your issue is with burst damage or game balance in general. Not with caitians or ferasans.
1: It is an Exploit attack. This means that players can carry two Expose weapons (the favored combination being the Omega gun and a pulsewave) and still Exploit their own Exposes. No other race has this level of tactical flexibility, and it confers something like a 25% increase to the player's potential average damage if played correctly
A very good reason to have one, but as you pointed out requires a certain build. What you didn't point out was why all felines under all cases shouldn't have it. Which I suspect that reason will be rooted in game balance in general, and not caitians/ferasans.
2: It is a high damage knockback attack ....
Ok, again, not to be rude: Where is the reason felines shouldn't have that abiltiy, and why is it their problem and not a problem with tacticle or general balance?
Also, Pounce is convenient for a knock back. Not that there are not at least two other ways to do it easier that are not tied to a race or class.
3: It is a gap closer that is not affected by holds and slows, duplicating the effectiveness of the Operative kit's Lunge at countering kits like Physicist, Equipment Technician, and Enemy Neutralization.
And, this is different from using any other active trait because?
Also, if your using pounce or lunge as a first option to counter holds, or weapon malfunction? I suggest you read the description on energy cells, or any direct healing ability I can think of.
4: It does not share a cooldown with Lunge, allowing for chaining them back to back for repeated knockback attacks.
That one I will not contest.
5: Its cooldown is too short. 12 seconds for Pounce, compared to one minute for Telekinesis, its closest analogous power. Note that this power benefits from Tactical Initiative, like everything else.
Solution: Put Pounce on a shared cooldown with Lunge. Make it an Expose attack. Increase its cooldown to 1 minute. Reduce its damage by 50%.
For a third time, not to be rude, but I have to ask you a question, guriphu: Do you actually play a caitian or ferasan?
It could be one second cooldown, and still wouldn't be worth using more then once for the knock back or the odd exploit.
It puts you in a odd position. More, In the time to close the gap and complete the animation you would have done more damage with any other attack in the game. Reduce the damage, increase the cool down, or really do anything but buff it and it goes from a at unique times useful or a fun party trick to nothing more then a toy.
It's because you said you survived being immobilized because your team was covering you rather than because of APO.
APO is a massive buff to survivability because of the mobility aspect of it. I can't think of any other case where one ship type has access to a defense that the others don't -- where one ship type is self-sufficient where the others aren't.
I think maybe you're not conscious of how much the omega is covering you. I know it's used for the DPS, but while it's up you have defense near 100% (less if it gets fixed, but it's still likely to be 50%+ if you aren't at a stop). If you get stopped, your defense is likely to drop to a little below 0%. In that respect, it's one of the most powerful defensive buffs in the game, since it's what allows you to speed tank.
ahh ok i see now, i use a delta for resist. dont get me wrong, if all else fails and i need to use omega i will. most times delta for a resist and omega for attacks.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
I believe that the cryo gun is one of the major problems of ground PVP. Is a weapon that no armour has resistance and in the hands of a tactical captain can one shot anyone, no matter how mach defence/heals you stack.
If this can be fix, I am sure that it will be a major step for a more compelling ground PVP.
Ground is what they're designed around. Why shouldn't they shine on the ground? They do not shine as easily in space.
I will not argue I like it, but to say it that doesn't compare side by side to Aggressive, Telepathic, Seduce, Rapture, Borg Neural Blast, Nerve Pinch, or Rapture?
Not to be rude, but it sounds to me your issue is with burst damage or game balance in general. Not with caitians or ferasans.
The point is, they shoud be balanced with other races for ground. Making them hands down better than all other races on the ground makes the entire ground PvP game unbalanced, as was stated. The idea is to allow other races to compete on ground without forcing everyone to roll a cat.
Pounce is the most powerful active trait there is, if you think it is weak, have a friend buff it with a full set of Tactical buffs and watch it do over 2,000 damage to a shielded, armored target. That is OP especially when the player still has Lunge immediately available to do it again. Then after Lunging for another 2,000 damage 1-shot kill, the player still has a fully buffed up shotgun blast to 1-shot a third player in 2 seconds.
Also, if your using pounce or lunge as a first option to counter holds, or weapon malfunction? I suggest you read the description on energy cells, or any direct healing ability I can think of.
Since all Power Cells and Hypos share a cooldown, using a power cell prevents use of a hypo for a global cooldown and can mean certain death. (Unlike Catians, other races have to live with these shared cooldowns all the time.)
For a third time, not to be rude, but I have to ask you a question, guriphu: Do you actually play a caitian or ferasan?
It could be one second cooldown, and still wouldn't be worth using more then once for the knock back or the odd exploit.
It puts you in a odd position. More, In the time to close the gap and complete the animation you would have done more damage with any other attack in the game. Reduce the damage, increase the cool down, or really do anything but buff it and it goes from a at unique times useful or a fun party trick to nothing more then a toy.
Go to Otha, you will see. In fact ask any feline to demonstrate the power of Pounce. After you respawn, return here and post the results.
There are several ways to get COLD resistance to combat the Cryo gun, they do not prevent it from being OP, but they will allow you to survive, sometimes.
Tacs can use Overwatch, Draw Fire, Rally Cry all give resistance to all damage including cold.
Engineers have Engineering Proficiency, Equipment Diagnostics, Repulsor Bubble, Medical Generaters, all shield resistance buffs.
Science has All Medic heals, Biofilter Sweep.
Dodge works the same vs cold as all other damage in game.
No, we want all the traits rebalanced and several of the space traits made more universal. The races should be somewhat unique but not any OP. The traits were made a long time ago and much of this game has changed since then. Most traits are useless and a few are 'must haves'.
As far as the 5% damage bonus of soldier, that is 5% of the base damage, not full damage, so it amounts to 2 more damage per shot....just WOW. Awesome. That is not even noticable. I have made an Alien with Soldier, Agressive, Peak Health, Lucky and did not do much more damage at all. Certainly not the 10% it looks like on paper.
Just to be clear, you make some very good arguements about traits. It sounds like you join the rest of us in wanting traits redesigned, rebalanced, redistributed, re...something that makes more sense and balance. I always pick 2 space and 2 ground traits. I think we should get 2 seperate trait lists to pick from, much like skill points.
I have no problems with a cat species being better at ground PvP, since after all, they are cats. It makes sense, though it really isn't a complete, utter blowout. You can still be good at ground PvP with an Alien, for instance. Doesn't hurt that I have both a Caitian and several Ferasans, though.
For just one kill, Tactical is really overpowered. There is hardly anything, if anything at all, that you can do about a fully buffed Tactical one-shotting or two-shotting you, and I don't think that's a good thing. I also do agree with the shared CD of Pounce and Lunge.
As for species balance, like I said, I think it's fine. Caitians and Ferasans are stronger in very realistic areas, but they certainly are not invincible. On a map like Shanty Town the advantage is probably too big. I think being able to fight on rooftops is great, but for only cats to be able to do it isn't fair in my opinion. There should be some lower areas to get on the roofs.
If ground PvP stays just like it is, I'd still like it. But there should be some relavitely simple changes that would make it better. Redoing the ground traits is something I also would agree with.
So there are my impulsive thoughts.
__________________________________ CO noob and STO veteran.
A Tier I power can negate a Tier I power, and Reduce in effectiveness other powers it defends against by 35%
A Tier II Power can negate a Tier II or lesser power and reduce in effectiveness any higher tier power by 70%
A Tier III Power can negate any power of tier III or lesser.
This would give a reason to use powers like Polarized Hull III, Tactical Team III, More reasons for Science team III and Engineering Team III.
Hi Web,
I think there could be merit in that kind of system, and perhaps multiple uses of a lower tier power could be combined to clear a higher tier debuff completely.
To be honest, I think there are already some reasons to take things like ET 3 and ST 3, especially with the CD reduction doffs.
If you're just solo/PUG queuing, maybe not - but in an organized team situation I think those powers do have their place depending on team comp.
I think my other concern is that the barrier to entry for the average casual player to PvP is already quite high, a system like this is an added layer of complexity that only the hardcore really get any enjoyment out of.
Also the thoughts are to change things so that it becomes more important to have ships with those slots available in a PVP situation to be able to defend against those other powers in a more worth while fashion. It would also make it so that Escorts suddenly will want those ships along with them, instead of being the "I can do it all" ships they have become lately. Including vs. PVE.
I'm saying this in honesty, and it's not my intent to insult you at all - so please don't take it that way.
The idea that an Escort is an "I can do it all" ship in PvP is...well, it feels like we're not playing the same game.
Here's how it goes in a typical match for me in an organized game with my fleetmates vs. Whoever (not other fleetmates, not that it would matter probably).
HE is usually held in reserve, a good portion of my hull heals are covered by Team healers (non-escorts).
TSS is my most frequent used heal outside of EPTS, it's generally available enough that I can toss it on someone else as a great portion of my shield survivability is covered by Team healers (non-escorts).
TT 1 is held in reserve until I, or someone else, is being focused. It's not strictly a heal, but I've included it anyway.
RSP 1 held in reserve until truly needed.
What happens when I'm VMd?
> Healers clear it with ET for me.
What happens when I'm SNBd?
> Healers clear it with ST for me.
What happens when I'm being focused?
> Healers give me ES/TSS to keep me alive (especially after SNBd).
On top of this, some of those same healers are also:
VM'ing targets as part of a kill set up.
PSWing tagets to knock out extends, etc. Usually as part of a kill set up.
So for me, when someone says the Escort is the do it all ship, its completely alien to what I've experienced so far.
The problem is the weapon is very much utterly useless otherwise since its was meant to fight Tholians, compare it with a polaron pulsewave.
The issue is not the cryo pulsewave, the issue is armor lacking defenses against cold damage.
lol????? no the cryo pulsewave is very op. i care less that its designed verse tholians. the sheild is ok and the armor is meh. with out going into ground mechanics since i am a space guy, my little knowledge on ground that i have been tought is as follows, full omega gear with the puleswave. its boosting crit. then the proc on the gun is a freeze. let alone the 1 shot, if you dont get that in no worries, hes slow to move with that proc as well as supprisive fire. yeah hes dead. not only that but my fleet mate is a sci and can 1 shot a whole team. shes done it before. its not like they were bad players or anything. she had the right pos to get it into the team since they bunched up.
im a huge ground noob and i have 1 shotted a guy who is 1 of the best players on ground. im sure you know izzled. sure 1 in a mill chance on it to happen. but that was all due to the gun. not any skill whats so ever.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
My main gripe with PvP, and possibly with the system as a whole, is the general disparity between defense and offense. A cruiser with 5 eng slots can not slot them all with resistance consoles because of diminishing returns. An escort with 5 tac consoles, OTOH, can stack them all fully without any diminishing effects. In ground, a Tac can "SUPER BUFF" their damage to one-shot anyone while there is no way to "SUPER BUFF" defense or resistance even for a very short period of time. There are a few different ways to address the issue and I believe they should be discussed.
On a similar note, considering resistance diminishing returns, I think that skills that debuff resistance are way too strong. Fire on my Mark can mostly nullify resistance armors. This is more noticeable on ground where you can only equip a single armor.
I also think that all bad statuses and disables should always be resistable by applicable passive skills. Any skill that is unresistable in any way is a strong candidate to be OP. Case in point: Sub-Nucleonic Beam. It is not resistable, just counterable (Science Team).
Respawn points need to be revisited to prevent spawncamping. Respawning under fire and dying in the next second (because you're disabled for a few seconds) is becoming quite common, specially in ground. Also, respawning together with an enemy should never happen.
I'm glad Pounce and Lunge are going to share cooldowns. Pounce already does LESS damage than Lunge, so no damage reduction is needed, like it has been suggested. Additionally, Pounce does not seem to benefit from Melee Crit DOFFs (its tooltip doesn't show those effects, while Lunge's does), and I believe it should, being a Melee skill. But it might just be a tooltip issue.
Comments
Skill or Ship:
Skill problem:
Ways to improve it:
while staying consstructive.
-Spells
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Thanks for taking the time bort.
With the above said I'll restate my issue with DEM just to make sure the problem is understood and put it in a nice format for you.
I'm coming at this from an engineering captains perspective in an engy heavy cruiser. So Star Cruisers/Neg'vars and the like.
The Skill
Directed Energy Modulation
The Problem
DEM damage/penetration/bleed through, what ever you'd like to call it is in my experience by far not enough these days to warrant it's use by cruisers running beams. That and the cool down is 90s vs a 30s up time. Too long a down time.
It's great with the new doff that increases weapons power drain resistance, but that's the only reason to slot it.
Expanding on issue
Cruisers that can slot DEM2 and especially DEM3 have limited tac slots and typically are running with just regular beam arrays. In PvP they've no chance of getting through shields via brute force. I see DEM as a viable bypass shields option but it's just not effective even versus the weakest hulled bops as its penetration damage appears to be based off an archaic weapons power setting with fixed values and not actual weapons damage values shown in tooltips. ~40 damage per pulse is not useful, that's laughable.
Possible solution
A possible fix would be to give it x% bleed through values. Like maybe 40% energy weapons damage bleed through for DEM3. 20% for DEM2 and 10% for DEM1. Stack it so cruisers benefit from it more as they've limited tac abilities. Destroyer type class ships or HEC's and JHAS etc have access to DEM2 so it's the hard one to place, but DEM3 is squarely in the "I have little tac options" arena and should have it's biggest boost in that slot.
There are a few bridge officer powers that have better versions in the same slot. This is mostly a problem with Commander based powers:
Gravity Well
Attack Pattern Omega
Aceton Beam
Eject Warp Plasma
Viral Matrix
Photonic Shockwave
Each of the above powers are commander slot II and III. Why even use a II if you can just find a Bridge officer, or friendly player willing to train the version III of the power?
Another issue, is with powers being TOO powerful for their slot.
Powers like:
Polarized hull
Attack Pattern Omega
Tactical Team
Tractor Beam
Emergency power to Weapons
Emergency power to Engines
Emergency power to Aux
Science Team
Engineering Team
Hazard Emitters
Each of the powers listed above (With the exception partly of Science and Engineering teams) are all that's needed in an Ensign slot. Either their ability completely neutralize another, or an effect from that power, such as Science, Tactical, or Engineering team, completely defends against powers they can defend against. Such examples are, but not limited to:
Polarized hull 1 can defend against ANY Incoming Tractor beam. Same goes for Attack Pattern Omega 1
Tractor Beam, except vs. a target protecting themselves with the above counters, can hold any target.
Science team 1 can clear ANY Clearable debuff Regardless of how powerful it is.
Engineering Team 1 can clear any Disable regardless to how powerful it is.
Tactical team can clear any offensive debuff or disable regardless to how powerful it is.
An Emergency Power to Engines or Aux can provide a full clear vs a Disabled System regardless to how powerful the attack was. And Emergency power to engines I provides nearly all the speed boost needed from Emergency power to Engines.
I would expect Powers to be able to counter only powers of Equal or Lesser rank/slot to themselves. Or at least provide a reduced counter of some fashion.
For example:
Jam Sensors 3 or Scramble Sensors 3 should not be cleared by Science team 1, but a Science team 3 could auto clear it (if they don't break it themselves with Damage done)
A Tactical Team 1 Should not be able to defend against a Boarding Party 3.
An Engineering team 1 should not be enough to clear a Viral Matrix 3
An Emergency power to X 1 should not be a defense against a Target Subsystem: X 3
And finally I have to question..
Why is there a Dispersal Pattern Beta 3, but there is no Dispersal Pattern Alpha 3?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Weapon Power Drain Mechanic
The Problem
Dual Heavy Cannons out perform all other weapons by a massive amount especially when many weapons are equiped. This is because they only fire one shot per cycle allowing each shot to get the highest possible weapon power bonus to damage. All other cannons fire two shots per cycle and only half are at highest potential, and finally all beams fire four per cycle forcing three quarters of the shots to be at a low bonus.
Expanding on issue
This literally makes Dual Cannons worthless beyond being a trap to those who do not know. In addition it skews the performance of beam weaponry making them understandable on any ship unless you are unable to use the superior cannons for whatever reason. I realize that several things have been added to alleviate this problem but they are insificant for more reasons than I care to get into at the moment other than gaining drain resistance does improve beam damage by a greater % but still not by enough for them to compete against the Dual Heavies who do get an increase in damage output from them as well.
Possible solution
I don't care. Several potential options would be:
- Double beam damage per hit, reduce number of shots per cycle to two. This would require a Beam Overload adjustment.
- Decrease beam drain a tad.
- Introduce an efficient rear only beam similar to turrets that are more efficient
- Introduce a Heavy front only beam similar to DHCs that fire fewer shots per cycle but can broadside
- Add a boff ability (preferably engineering) that reduces weapon drain with significant up time.
- Increase accuracy of Beams, and/or further reduce their damage penalty at long ranges.
- Allow all ships to equip Dual Heavy Cannons and bump up turn rates by 2 (this is sarcasm).
Regarding Photonic Doffs, I believe it was at some point the intent of Photonic Doffs to reduce the cooldown of the PSW Torp Console. Iirc there was a patch that did this. Personally, I'm fine w/it being removed, but you may get some pushback from others.
Also, I had an early post that brough up a couple of other things imo that are broken ie not working as intended.
The 1st is for @ least the KDF Vet console (not sure of Fed side) Aux2batt reduces the cooldown of the shield vamp ability.
The 2nd is the KDF Vet console can become stuck in one mode after being struck by trics. This reminds me of the old problem of weapons being stuck if hit by trics mid cycle.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
APO starts at Ltc, I'm sure that was just an oversight.
I think that's entirely the point of the design.
What you're suggesting would see Engisn slots become basically pointless for clearing anything that would in reality be used against you and would then force ships to sacrifice higher tier performance powers just to be able to clear debilitating effects.
While that might sound balanced in a "TRIBBLE for tat" kind of design, I personally think it would veer into "unfun" territory where you have to slot cleanses to debuffs in the very few, precious higher tier slots you get (a total of 3 out of 12 powers for most ships).
A better direction might be to have partial cleanses vs. the fairly binary off/on design of debuffs and cleanses we have now, but I think that ship has probably set sail a long time ago.
No. The two powers will just not be useable back-to-back any longer. Whatever the standard cooldown is (I haven't investigated it yet), triggering either will cause the other to go on a cooldown that is a portion of that amount.
In other words, if they each have a 30sec CD, firing either will put the other on a 10-15 Cooldown. You'll still be able to use these extremely similar abilities more frequently than a non-Caitian/Ferasan, just not in rapid succession.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
If you think its fine, then imagine if tac consoles would be only +10% dmg each, with diminished returns on top of it. And imagine the forum explosion it would cause.
If perhaps it was more like this, it might also be ok:
A Tier I power can negate a Tier I power, and Reduce in effectiveness other powers it defends against by 35%
A Tier II Power can negate a Tier II or lesser power and reduce in effectiveness any higher tier power by 70%
A Tier III Power can negate any power of tier III or lesser.
This would give a reason to use powers like Polarized Hull III, Tactical Team III, More reasons for Science team III and Engineering Team III.
Hazard Emitters would be similar, except concerning Plasma Dots. It could probably be changed to instead Effect an amount of Dots, including Warp plasma. Where Tier I could perhaps clear a maximum of 2 or 3 Dots. Tier II could Clear a maximum of 4 or 6 Dots. And Tier III could clear all Dots for it's Duration.
Also, Haxard Emitters really needs to decide WHAT it can clear. Because right now it can clear not only Plasma Dots, but Energy Siphon as well. I think there's more it can clear, but I can't recall the others at this time.
Also the thoughts are to change things so that it becomes more important to have ships with those slots available in a PVP situation to be able to defend against those other powers in a more worth while fashion. It would also make it so that Escorts suddenly will want those ships along with them, instead of being the "I can do it all" ships they have become lately. Including vs. PVE.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The ships are (or were originally) balanced around team roles because duel-focused setups would result in a stale sort of rock-paper-scissors.
Ironically, rewriting the game for duels would far more likely result in more player frustration with PvP, because you'd have much less power as an individual to make an impact on your team's performance.
As stands, an Engie Ody played right can tank two or three players more or less forever. Healers are intended to be far more than merely self-sufficient, though, because it allows them to fill a useful role for their team and not just for themselves. I think that's a good thing and while the ebb and flow of balancing may swing one way or the other, I wouldn't want to see that fundamentally change.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Ye well, sadly around these parts you are the only one who wants to balance the game around duels :P
1)That's no different then any other cover on a X or Y Axis.
2)Even without the jump, if your having trouble shooting why are allowing another to dedicate where you fight?
It takes two to fight. Go around, or find your cover. Problem solved. You don't have to fight them, or they have to abandon their cover to follow. "If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
3)That's a issue with level design, and your swatting a fly with a nuke. There is a great deal of fun to be had exploring places that have absolutely nothing to do with any form of combat.
Ground is what they're designed around. Why shouldn't they shine on the ground? They do not shine as easily in space.
I will not argue I like it, but to say it that doesn't compare side by side to Aggressive, Telepathic, Seduce, Rapture, Borg Neural Blast, Nerve Pinch, or Rapture?
Not to be rude, but it sounds to me your issue is with burst damage or game balance in general. Not with caitians or ferasans.
A very good reason to have one, but as you pointed out requires a certain build. What you didn't point out was why all felines under all cases shouldn't have it. Which I suspect that reason will be rooted in game balance in general, and not caitians/ferasans.
Ok, again, not to be rude: Where is the reason felines shouldn't have that abiltiy, and why is it their problem and not a problem with tacticle or general balance?
Also, Pounce is convenient for a knock back. Not that there are not at least two other ways to do it easier that are not tied to a race or class.
And, this is different from using any other active trait because?
Also, if your using pounce or lunge as a first option to counter holds, or weapon malfunction? I suggest you read the description on energy cells, or any direct healing ability I can think of.
That one I will not contest.
For a third time, not to be rude, but I have to ask you a question, guriphu: Do you actually play a caitian or ferasan?
It could be one second cooldown, and still wouldn't be worth using more then once for the knock back or the odd exploit.
It puts you in a odd position. More, In the time to close the gap and complete the animation you would have done more damage with any other attack in the game. Reduce the damage, increase the cool down, or really do anything but buff it and it goes from a at unique times useful or a fun party trick to nothing more then a toy.
ahh ok i see now, i use a delta for resist. dont get me wrong, if all else fails and i need to use omega i will. most times delta for a resist and omega for attacks.
If this can be fix, I am sure that it will be a major step for a more compelling ground PVP.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Yes, you are correct, I agree with that.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
The point is, they shoud be balanced with other races for ground. Making them hands down better than all other races on the ground makes the entire ground PvP game unbalanced, as was stated. The idea is to allow other races to compete on ground without forcing everyone to roll a cat.
Pounce is the most powerful active trait there is, if you think it is weak, have a friend buff it with a full set of Tactical buffs and watch it do over 2,000 damage to a shielded, armored target. That is OP especially when the player still has Lunge immediately available to do it again. Then after Lunging for another 2,000 damage 1-shot kill, the player still has a fully buffed up shotgun blast to 1-shot a third player in 2 seconds.
No other active trait is even half as powerful or available as often or buffed by Tacs; although Rapture is a distant second.
Since all Power Cells and Hypos share a cooldown, using a power cell prevents use of a hypo for a global cooldown and can mean certain death. (Unlike Catians, other races have to live with these shared cooldowns all the time.)
Go to Otha, you will see. In fact ask any feline to demonstrate the power of Pounce. After you respawn, return here and post the results.
Tacs can use Overwatch, Draw Fire, Rally Cry all give resistance to all damage including cold.
Engineers have Engineering Proficiency, Equipment Diagnostics, Repulsor Bubble, Medical Generaters, all shield resistance buffs.
Science has All Medic heals, Biofilter Sweep.
Dodge works the same vs cold as all other damage in game.
As far as the 5% damage bonus of soldier, that is 5% of the base damage, not full damage, so it amounts to 2 more damage per shot....just WOW. Awesome. That is not even noticable. I have made an Alien with Soldier, Agressive, Peak Health, Lucky and did not do much more damage at all. Certainly not the 10% it looks like on paper.
Just to be clear, you make some very good arguements about traits. It sounds like you join the rest of us in wanting traits redesigned, rebalanced, redistributed, re...something that makes more sense and balance. I always pick 2 space and 2 ground traits. I think we should get 2 seperate trait lists to pick from, much like skill points.
For just one kill, Tactical is really overpowered. There is hardly anything, if anything at all, that you can do about a fully buffed Tactical one-shotting or two-shotting you, and I don't think that's a good thing. I also do agree with the shared CD of Pounce and Lunge.
As for species balance, like I said, I think it's fine. Caitians and Ferasans are stronger in very realistic areas, but they certainly are not invincible. On a map like Shanty Town the advantage is probably too big. I think being able to fight on rooftops is great, but for only cats to be able to do it isn't fair in my opinion. There should be some lower areas to get on the roofs.
If ground PvP stays just like it is, I'd still like it. But there should be some relavitely simple changes that would make it better. Redoing the ground traits is something I also would agree with.
So there are my impulsive thoughts.
CO noob and STO veteran.
Hi Web,
I think there could be merit in that kind of system, and perhaps multiple uses of a lower tier power could be combined to clear a higher tier debuff completely.
To be honest, I think there are already some reasons to take things like ET 3 and ST 3, especially with the CD reduction doffs.
If you're just solo/PUG queuing, maybe not - but in an organized team situation I think those powers do have their place depending on team comp.
I think my other concern is that the barrier to entry for the average casual player to PvP is already quite high, a system like this is an added layer of complexity that only the hardcore really get any enjoyment out of.
That's just my personal opinion though.
I'm saying this in honesty, and it's not my intent to insult you at all - so please don't take it that way.
The idea that an Escort is an "I can do it all" ship in PvP is...well, it feels like we're not playing the same game.
Here's how it goes in a typical match for me in an organized game with my fleetmates vs. Whoever (not other fleetmates, not that it would matter probably).
HE is usually held in reserve, a good portion of my hull heals are covered by Team healers (non-escorts).
TSS is my most frequent used heal outside of EPTS, it's generally available enough that I can toss it on someone else as a great portion of my shield survivability is covered by Team healers (non-escorts).
TT 1 is held in reserve until I, or someone else, is being focused. It's not strictly a heal, but I've included it anyway.
RSP 1 held in reserve until truly needed.
What happens when I'm VMd?
> Healers clear it with ET for me.
What happens when I'm SNBd?
> Healers clear it with ST for me.
What happens when I'm being focused?
> Healers give me ES/TSS to keep me alive (especially after SNBd).
On top of this, some of those same healers are also:
VM'ing targets as part of a kill set up.
PSWing tagets to knock out extends, etc. Usually as part of a kill set up.
So for me, when someone says the Escort is the do it all ship, its completely alien to what I've experienced so far.
lol????? no the cryo pulsewave is very op. i care less that its designed verse tholians. the sheild is ok and the armor is meh. with out going into ground mechanics since i am a space guy, my little knowledge on ground that i have been tought is as follows, full omega gear with the puleswave. its boosting crit. then the proc on the gun is a freeze. let alone the 1 shot, if you dont get that in no worries, hes slow to move with that proc as well as supprisive fire. yeah hes dead. not only that but my fleet mate is a sci and can 1 shot a whole team. shes done it before. its not like they were bad players or anything. she had the right pos to get it into the team since they bunched up.
im a huge ground noob and i have 1 shotted a guy who is 1 of the best players on ground. im sure you know izzled. sure 1 in a mill chance on it to happen. but that was all due to the gun. not any skill whats so ever.
On a similar note, considering resistance diminishing returns, I think that skills that debuff resistance are way too strong. Fire on my Mark can mostly nullify resistance armors. This is more noticeable on ground where you can only equip a single armor.
I also think that all bad statuses and disables should always be resistable by applicable passive skills. Any skill that is unresistable in any way is a strong candidate to be OP. Case in point: Sub-Nucleonic Beam. It is not resistable, just counterable (Science Team).
Respawn points need to be revisited to prevent spawncamping. Respawning under fire and dying in the next second (because you're disabled for a few seconds) is becoming quite common, specially in ground. Also, respawning together with an enemy should never happen.
I'm glad Pounce and Lunge are going to share cooldowns. Pounce already does LESS damage than Lunge, so no damage reduction is needed, like it has been suggested. Additionally, Pounce does not seem to benefit from Melee Crit DOFFs (its tooltip doesn't show those effects, while Lunge's does), and I believe it should, being a Melee skill. But it might just be a tooltip issue.
STO Screenshot Archive