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Top Concerns of PvP Balance

webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
edited March 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Hey guys, I think this thread has run its course.

If you would all like to make a new "Top Concerns of PvP Balance" thread to air other grievances, I promise to give it a read, and respond where/when possible.


I'd have to say my Top Concerns of PVP Balance are:

Lobi Store weapons and Consoles.

This is especially true of the Concentrated Tachyon Mines. The more players I see running these with Dispersal Patterns the less I want to Que up.

Anti Matter Spread is an annoying power, to be true, but it's worse when you can resist the Scramble Aspect of it, but not the Jam aspect of it. Add in the new Reputation Crit = Jam, and then throw on the KDF Honor Guard shield/Adapted M.A.C.O Shield and you probably should just put your weapons on auto target and HOPE you hit something. Which all leads into Stackable Placates

Graviton Pulse also feels out of balance for PVP.. Especially when it can last for nearly 30 seconds in some cases.

But the Number One cause for the most concern in PVP where Balance is concerned:

One Crits, it all Crits.

That bug effects so many things that as long as it continues, anything that can be effected by it becomes much stronger then it should be. This includes but is not limited to: Plasma Dots and Dispersal Pattern Mines to name a couple.

All in all there are a lot of things I'm sure that concern the Majority of PVP. Those above are a couple that I feel are problematic for PVP in the current state it's in where Powers and Balance is concerned.
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Post edited by webdeath on
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Comments

  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    + in my opinion: duration of shutdown- and cd's affecting abilities in general

    edit:
    no real counter for vm, except batteries and eng team(shared cd with tt :()... just played in an arena where me and my mates in some cases were hit by 3 vm's in short time.
    the first was counterable with a batterie on a 2min cd, but then... i guess there should be at least a short immunity when hit first.

    no real counter and too long lasting duration of sn. sci team, i know (heard it does not work at all?).. but again there's the shared cd with tt.
    also 30 sec duration seem way too long. even 10 secs is a long time in pvp, but 30?

    last i encountered and was kind of surprised in the first place about is when your shields are full, even rsp just hit, and then one facing of your shields totally been stripped off (under fire ^^)... dunno what is causing that.

    also to consider: may i just lack of experience ;)...
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    crew being a multiplier for subsystem repair makes doffed VM OP. nice idea, HORRIBLY game play ramifications
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited January 2013
    My concerns are still the same as last.

    The breen cluster torpedo needs a look into, altered, changed and most of all the crit-link NEEDS to be solved. Tricobalt mine damage needs additional nerfing.

    Next up is the APO immunity to movement debuffs. APO already has alot of bonuses tied to it, and we already know that escorts are king in pvp. They have it all from all departments in terms of speed, defense and offense which the other 2 classes cant have at the same time.

    Lastly i still want defense removed from its correlation to speed. Defense should instead be given as a static numerical value based on ship type. Give cruiser a base 40%, SV a base 30% and escort 20%, and new engineering consoles to boost said value. Right now escorts are superior in both defense and offense with little risk to themselves, part in due to APO and the fact that escorts are at the majority of the time in control of the pace of battle. They can even escape and heal up while other ships will have a hard time catching up. This will too nullify the tractor beam hold which seriously sets both SV and cruisers in a gigantic disadvantage, as they dont have the escape possibilties as the escort and the fact their defense value is reduced to 0, aka sitting duck.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I know its been mentioned elsewhere and the playerbase has mixed opinions on the matter but energy weapons need looking at (See the threads in General feedback, fed feedback and even here) Beams in general (much like science powers) need looking at given their tenancy to reduce their own capacity to deal damage due to their high (and long lasting) drain compared to alternative weapon systems and considering these are the primary weapon choice (and in some cases the only weapon choice) for most ship types in the game they need at least looking at if not modifying a bit. (The fix to FAW will help a little but does not overcome the basic problems, still thanks :))

    The other thing that really needs to be high on the list of priorities are science powers considering how (unless you use a cookie-cutter build) science in a science ship is the games least effective combo, if you took the perfect Tac/sci against the perfect sci/sci chances are tac/sci would win, perfect eng/sci vs perfect sci/sci and the perfect eng/sci would likely win
    that said you take the perfect tac/sci against the perfect eng/sci and the eng/sci would likely win due to the way sci powers work with tac captain powers and the way eng captain powers work in general.

    Just my 2p
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  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited January 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    The other thing that really needs to be high on the list of priorities are science powers considering how (unless you use a cookie-cutter build) science in a science ship is the games least effective combo -snip-

    Just my 2p

    Care to elaborate which science skills? Cause the only thing i can think of which gives sciscorts an advantage is SNB, which is a captain power.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited January 2013
    I picked up some tachyon mines.

    Yeah.

    Also, I toyed around with a viral trans bop this morning.

    Lulz.

    There are still many things to be maxd in this game. That's for damn sure. Find what is just a little powered, and know where to throw points and what gear and ship to run.

    Ah. My playtime sucks these days anyways, good luck to you guys still grinding away and testing for the rest of us. And thank you.

    Have fun kill bad guys

    -thrusters on full-
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    Care to elaborate which science skills? Cause the only thing i can think of which gives sciscorts an advantage is SNB, which is a captain power.

    Lets not forget how SNB combined with SScan and PF is an excellent combo for sci/scorts or DF is another major one if you have a group of escorts so long as you stay together and you can use that in conjunction with PF again if you need some cannonfodder in an escort. Those combos give a sci/scort more functionality than an eng/scort as well as giving a major advantage over the eng/scort and placing it a little behind the tac/scort in terms of effectiveness.
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  • hroothvitnirhroothvitnir Member Posts: 322
    edited January 2013
    And transplant this here from the FAW thread. Idea of it being a fix for the balancing issue that you run into with tac buffs increasing damage of some sci ability's. That causes a problem as a sci captain in a sci ship wont get much damage out of it but they cant increase it as a tac captain can just jam a battery and get everything the sci captain could from the power and more damage. So my idea is just get rid of 90% of the damage in sci powers and make them more about how they affect a target.
    The question about sci powers being tac buffed is would removing or reducing that make it where they would be rebalanced so that they would function adequately based on skill spec, and not on how much dps TBR/FBP puts out with full tac buffs.

    I want tachyon beam to do something and be a worthwhile skill to take on a burst damage Vesta build but its not, its not even any where close to useful compared to TB and TBR or even GWIII.

    Sci skills shouldn't be about the damage numbers they should be about the effects. VM is a good example it does 0 damage at all but is useful if you take it as it causes the enemy to use up options to counter it giving you an opportunity to make a kill. And TB is basically the space version of hold to the ground and pummel no one cares about the miniscule damage it does, the effect is worth so much more. Yet only a few people use TBR for the push effect most are still using it for the damage.

    As far as tachyon beam I'd like to toss the drain and turn it into a just a flat reduces shield resist or possibly increases bleed through damage by % amount skill. That way instead of being a shield damage skill its a shield affecting skill.

    Thats my opinion on science anyway.
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    For the record, using Mk XI Jem'hadar Deflector, 5 Mk XI Purple Graviton Generator Consoles, 9 ranks into the Graviton Generators skill, and 125 Auxillary Power I get a Graviton Pulse Generator effect duration of 50.9 seconds.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Personally I think the majority of the Rep powers are problematic. I can understand the system is Cryptic's love child but they really need a thorough going-over.

    I hold most DOffs in the same regard.
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  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problems with the Compressed Cryo Launcher and the Cold Damage. It's a Pulsewave with Cold Damage, no one has Cold Resistance, this leads to 2 problems:


    1. A super buffed tactical officer can one-shot you using the Arcwave Setting of the Cryo Pulsewave, no matter how many defense buffs you are running
    2. There no exist armors with Cold Resistance, you only have a Tribble, wich is very little resistance compared to the normal armors that have around +60 for all the energies.


    We need cold resistance to be added to the STF Armors or any kind of consumable, this it's going to make the Cryo Pulsewave still useful just like any other Pulsewave in the game but a gameplay much fairer.
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  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited January 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Lets not forget how SNB combined with SScan and PF is an excellent combo for sci/scorts or DF is another major one if you have a group of escorts so long as you stay together and you can use that in conjunction with PF again if you need some cannonfodder in an escort. Those combos give a sci/scort more functionality than an eng/scort as well as giving a major advantage over the eng/scort and placing it a little behind the tac/scort in terms of effectiveness.

    Ye, we have all figured that out, but it seems your qualms is more with science captain skills then let alone science abilites.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited January 2013
    I'm sure I speak for Bort too when I say, "/subscribed".

    One thing that I am going to suggest that will help this thread stay more organized and constructive is the following (which some of you are already doing, so thank you!): if there is a concern that you wish to raise, state what it is and why. Completely made-up example on what I suggest it looking like:
    Branyon Detonator Console: This console seems overpowered because the Flakeyon Detonator Console has a similar effect with a longer cool down and an extra counter to it.

    Again, completely made-up, but you get the picture. Just listing out the power or item is not going to help -- let us know why it's a concern.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Change the name and visuals of the rom rep cloak to something more like signal jamming, it feels wrong.

    Lock box ships need a nerf or everything else needs a buff.

    Add new phaserbeam boff ability proximity detonation. Next three shots do more damage than normal, and cause small 2 or 3 km explosions. They hit one target, give a damage boost, and help against various spam with good timing. It's ranking slots are the same as cannon abilities. Based on the balance of terror.

    In Starcraft abilities that take away the ability to play or micro are often considered overpowered, make moves to enhance options and style in gameplay.
  • pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited January 2013
    cidstorm wrote: »
    Lock box ships need a nerf or everything else needs a buff.

    Please see my post right above yours. Which ships and why do you think this?

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    fleet ships are the new base line, the non fleet ship are free steeping stones until you pay money or grind enough dil to upgrade
  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Please see my post right above yours. Which ships and why do you think this?
    Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
    Highest turn-rate of all escorts, excluding raiders.
    Aside from Escort Carriers, the highest HP of all escorts.
    Shield Rating of 1, while most other escorts tend to have around 0.9
    Two universal boff slots
    5 tactical console slots
    Benefits from Jem'Hadar Space Set

    In other words, for an escort the ship has no flaws. Other ships at the very least tend to trade defensive stats for offense or turn rate etc. In this case... it's an OP ship and the whole community knows it.
    PyKDqad.jpg
  • playhard88playhard88 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    suaveks wrote: »
    Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
    Highest turn-rate of all escorts, excluding raiders.
    Aside from Escort Carriers, the highest HP of all escorts.
    Shield Rating of 1, while most other escorts tend to have around 0.9
    Two universal boff slots
    5 tactical console slots
    Benefits from Jem'Hadar Space Set

    In other words, for an escort the ship has no flaws. Other ships at the very least tend to trade defensive stats for offense or turn rate etc. In this case... it's an OP ship and the whole community knows it.

    Make this post about PvP balance of items and powers, don't turn this into a p2w ships-cry topic because is most likely that devs will ignore it.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Different people have different levels of thinking so what may seem OP to one person isn't so to another. To me the lockbox ships do not seem that much of a step up in actual advantage they just seem to me like an iconic symbol of something you may not be able to normally get in a Star Trek game to play with. A good example is the KDF there were some games that let you play Klingons but for the most part looking back from 80's to the present majority of them have vastly been where you can only play a federation ship and most of the time it was the enterprise, enterprise A, or enterprise D.

    I do think with some revamp of crafting though that these differences people are seeing that they want to fill the gap with should be done by crafting. STO like many games I've seen where crafting takes a major role in the begining of a game but as STO stands right now is right next to every other MMORPG where crafting is thrown out the window or if anything takes a back seat. Just a few examples of things like KDF players should be able to craft battle cloaks but make it where say a player could open personal shops in those areas of social zones no one ever goes to and be able to sell things so ships like the defiant that seem to lack things like this the only reason I don't play fed side is the powers the feds have to me are mediocre and takes away from the Star Trek experience. Little things like the battle cloak issue though are great ways to flesh out both factions. Also with the PvP issue I am kinda hoping something is done to bring it back to the feel of the DS9 era where both sides were allies and flesh the KDF out, Crafting out, PvP out, and putting in more factions.

    In all though in a game where rewards are key there is nothing to balance if nothing draws the players into it. So PvP being just a death match doesn't appeal to players like me who have played just about every game but not all since the 80's and STO's PvP just feels like I am going back in time playing Wolfenstein 3D or Duke Nukem 3D.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    My main pvp concern is people not playing it and complaining about supposedly OP gear on the forums.

    On every single game when something is OP in space people just start using it. Here when someone gets his TRIBBLE kicked he starts a post about how OP something is because he didn't know how to counter it. Funny.

    On the other hand, ground pvp is horribly broken. I've been able to OS or two-shot constantly a group of players with my new Romulan tactical kit and a cryo pulsewave. Engineers can play in god more for 6 seconds with their new doffs every 45 seconds too. There is no real counter since tachyon harmonic can't be used by tacs or engs.

    I should make a video of myself having fun slaughtering other players on ground just to show how frustrated the other team can be. It's litteraly a gankfest when a tac with a cryo pulseave and the right kit (Romulan or operative) is on the map. :P

    Of course the cryo gun isn't the major issue; the differences between NPCs and players are. NPCs are just meatbags with 10k HP. They don't need heals, they don't have heals, and take some time to kill. A player has at most 600HP. It's really easy to make a one-shot for a tac, and with a OS your nanites can't proc if you're a sci and you can't heal. Ground PVE is extremely fun but ground pvp is just like slaughtering catter if you have the right kit and gear.

    Even with my fed sci with a grenade & cryo guns, a tricorder scan, a medic kit and nanoprobe infestation, it's just too easy.

    Of course i'm folliwing my own rule: when it's op, use it and don't complain about it, but i'm also aware that it can be a frustrating experience for the other team.
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  • zorena#3961 zorena Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I think the UI in this game makes it hard for new players to pvp too, lets just think if cryptic made colored icons to differentiate the different profession of the boffs and also the
    captain powers could be abit more lively in colors. The old console called red matter capacitor had colors, and then frankly like the ability to scale the buffs without having to use in game command lines would be better.

    Also a little box that showed current Flight speed / Defense rating / Turn rate, what else?? could be nice maybe some options like auto hiding "pve mission info" when its not in use.
    I would just like more customization options all around like there can only be 1 chat box why is that? And the in game combat channel chat is really beyond worthless it doesn't stop if you scroll up.

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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=511221

    I went out for a smoke to think about what I might post, and nothing else mattered compared to that. That's game-breaking for me. I won't queue with that. It's not fair to the other people on the team when that happens.

    Tric bomb me, tractor spam me, drain me, outship me, drop nukes on me like they're a can of Pringles, I think I've been VM'd so many times at times that I'm not infected by VM - but VM's infected by me...and all of the countless other things that are so often brought up.

    Tell you what - bring back the 2pc Borg set, bring back broken Rep shield regen, bring back the broken Elite Fleet Shield resists, bring back the broken Romulan DOFFs, and Hell - even add a Concentrated Tachyon Shockwave Torpedo...

    ...and I'd rather deal with having to fight that than dealing with the desync nonsense from the Temporal stuff.

    Sure, maybe if that wasn't an issue for me - I might be bringing up or chiming in on other things being said in this thread...but there's plenty of folks that are more than willing to discuss those things.

    I'd just like to be able to queue for PvP without thinking at some point I'm going to want to throw my keyboard through my monitor because I can't even manually redistribute my shields because the game's not recognizing that I'm hitting the spacebar.
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I said this in another thread, but maybe I can mention it here too. Directed Energy Modulation needs a large damage/penetration buff.

    I'll say this up front, I don't PvP much or at all. But the few times I have I've wished DEM had substantially more bleed through effect. In PvP as an engy in a cruiser I've no hope of downing a shield facing one on one.

    I think direct to hull damage should be the cruisers speciality. Engies have 3 such Commander level abilites that do this, Aceton beam, eject warp and DEM.

    Aceton beam is more about the enemies energy weapons debuff than it is the radiation DoT. EWP3 is the ONLY direct hull damage engy Com ability that does any sizable damage. DEM3 does nothing noticeable. No one uses it at the moment for a reason, it is fairly rubbish imo.

    I'd go as far to say that with my setup, Aceton 1 does more DoT per tick (80 to hull off the top of my head) than DEM does per pulse (~36 according to tool tips).

    That's why I reckon DEM, mainly DEM2/3 a cruiser only ability needs a makeover. Get through the shields and apply some meaningful direct to hull dps. Become a proper cruiser dps ability.

    The excessive cool down time on it doesn't help either.

    /my 2c
    AFMJGUR.jpg
  • cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Please see my post right above yours. Which ships and why do you think this?

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    Definitely too much of a sweeping statement, :o the new Dom ships are almost definitely excluded from what I hear.

    Il compare the minibug to fedscorts since many kinks consider them to be superior, plus majority player base and all that.

    It has a turn rate of twenty, higher than any other escort. In exchange for this it gets almost zero losses. The one sci console is comparable in effect to half the fleet escorts thanks to the 1.0 shield modifier. It won't ever be a competitor in actual sci abilities, but you rarely hear people going for that in an escort anyways. Several respected players here were discussing the disadvantages of doing so in the FAW thread if I'm not mistaken.

    It has more hp than every fleetscort excluding the armitage, and it has four eng consoles. So with shields better than or comparable to half the escorts, superior hull tanking to all but one, and bop level turn rate the bug becomes the best duelist in the game. A low crew count is a small price to pay for two universal boffs. The boffs make it very adaptable, science skills like tractor beam or hazard emitters don't take consoles to perform well, so it's hard to see why anyone would to fly anything else in the category.

    I'm sure other people here could do a better job, and I don't give too much disdain for issues like this. Balance is an incredibly hard challenge to undertake. A pro star craft player once said the game will never be balanced because of a three race system that makes every race different. It will be tough, but many people also say brood war was perfectly balanced. So don't give up, don't be afraid to make a race or class harder to play if it means getting closer to the goal, don't sacrice balance at the highest level of play to make newer players think its balanced.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    In reading cidstorm's post, I kind of did have to chuckle for a moment. Not at cidstorm, mind you - but at...

    The Bug - the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship...what comes to mind?

    1) I couldn't even guess how many of these I've destroyed while in a shuttle before heading through the wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant.

    2) It's a possible combat pet/hangar item for the new Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier.

    3) It's arguably the best Escort in the game.

    It can be difficult to process 1 and 2 with 3. :)
  • starboardnacellestarboardnacelle Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    My biggest concern is (non-Vesta) Science Vessels' utter lack of viable offensive options, save Feedback Pulse and Polaron-based power drain builds.


    • Tachyon Beam is horrifically underpowered for a single-target ability. The innate resistance offered by six points in Power Insulators and the value added from virtually all endgame deflectors practically nullifies its effects. Even with 125 auxiliary power, six points in the Flow Capacitor skill, and a [Console - Science - Flow Capacitor Mk XI], the drain is negligible. That should definitely be on the list of powers that need to be re-examined. Perhaps convert it to drain by percentage and make it a hard counter to Reverse Shield Polarity.
    • The Leadership trait worries me. Now that it's actually working, and can stack, a ship using all human Bridge Officers can effectively shrug off a fully-buffed Viral Matrix. Considering the Subspace Decompiler skill requires a heavy investment, and Leadership essentially makes it worthless, I'd consider this to be a priority.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    KDF Vet ship console shield vamp effect: it's cooldown is reduced by aux2batt and it shouldn't be.

    Photonic Doffs with PSWTorp Console: Seems to double the effect per doff, ~45 seconds left on cooldown when using 3 purp doffs. 180 seconds is it's base timer. It's further reduced to ~12 seconds after a PSW is used.

    In general it was a previous Dev's design to have 3 purple doffs for max effect: There seem to be cases where 2 is all that's needed b/c of double effects. Team doffs used to be like this, though it's been awhile since I've checked.

    KDF Vet ship console: The console sometime becomes locked into 1 state (eg Tactical) after being hit by a Tric effect. This is similar to the way weapons locked before.

    Transphasic Cluster Torps: These seem to have the effect where they all crit if there's a crit instead of a roll for each mine.

    Extend Shields: Idk, but have heard these stack better than they should. Ie, greater than the 75% max shield resists.

    Passive Placate Procs: See the thread on this for those concerns.

    Power Creep: There's been a drastic change to CritH potential along w/passive shield/hull repairs w/the Rep system. It's to the point where high alphas w/a a moderate to long cooldown such as BO are much stronger. Conversely, passive repairs have gone up as well from the Sci consoles to the Rep system choices. This w/other much of the lockbox influx leaves newer players farther behind and at too much a disadvantage when starting PvP.

    I will say ideas like the time effects are good ideas in terms of introducing something new, but need to be hashed out prior to "going live". Things, like putting the 2 strongest procs on 1 weapon is just bad. Please stick to adding variety and a means of testing prior to "go live".

    Aux2batt and other Cooldown reducers: Imo, it's overpowered and in the very least EPTA shouldn't remove the cieling of 5 aux power. 30% or more (depending on boff cooldown and # of aux2batts) reduction is just too much when it can be done more than 1x during an abilities cooldown. I'd suggest making it so an abilities cooldown can only be reduced once whether it's aux2batt, AP doffs, photonic doffs, or even Tac Captains power. Just use the greatest net cooldown reducer.

    SNB Doffs: Too powerful. This needs to have a very high immunity and/or only effect a small number of buffs.

    The new AP ability: Too powerful. Quite frankly it'd be borderline OP just effecting 1 ship let alone an entire team.

    Fleet B'rel 4 Eng Consoles: This is TRIBBLE and should be 4 Sci consoles.
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  • sollafsollaf Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    suaveks wrote: »
    Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
    Highest turn-rate of all escorts, excluding raiders.
    Aside from Escort Carriers, the highest HP of all escorts.
    Shield Rating of 1, while most other escorts tend to have around 0.9
    Two universal boff slots
    5 tactical console slots
    Benefits from Jem'Hadar Space Set

    In other words, for an escort the ship has no flaws. Other ships at the very least tend to trade defensive stats for offense or turn rate etc. In this case... it's an OP ship and the whole community knows it.

    The Jem'Hader attack ship, is what it is. It dosen't need to be changed, there are ways to deal with them. I've both squashed bugs, and been squashed by them. As to them having the perk of the Jem'hadar set, that makes them really squishy. If you want to solve this problem, attack the items giving the boost, not only to them, but the majority of ships. The items that need to be reevaluated are the 2 pc borg set. Thats what allows the bug, and most ships to stay really tanky in a fight.
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  • maristonmariston Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I submit, any power or device that is "mandatory" in order to survive in PVP is overpowered (or the competing powers are underpowered).

    An example is Tac Team. Every single recommended PVP build I have seen has one or more copies of Tac Team listed. In my own experiences, my turn rate and manual shield rebalancing is insufficient to keep up under heavy fire; so... I must carry Tac Team or I am decimated within seconds. The only power that is even close is Reverse Shield Polarity, and its cooldown is too long to make it economical to replace Tac Team. The neccessity of carrying Tac Team hinders cruisers and sci vessels and their limited tactical BOFF slots.

    Because everyone (sorry for the generalization) accepts that Tac Team is a requirement for PVP, no one questions how underpowered any competing powers are. Even worse, the need for a build that includes Tac Team hinders potential creative builds.

    Although this sounds like a crusade against Tac Team, it is not. I am stating that any power, console, device, etc that is considered a requirement to be good at PVP is either overpowered or the alternate powers are underpowered.
  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,116 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mariston wrote: »
    I submit, any power or device that is "mandatory" in order to survive in PVP is overpowered (or the competing powers are underpowered).

    An example is Tac Team. Every single recommended PVP build I have seen has one or more copies of Tac Team listed. In my own experiences, my turn rate and manual shield rebalancing is insufficient to keep up under heavy fire; so... I must carry Tac Team or I am decimated within seconds. The only power that is even close is Reverse Shield Polarity, and its cooldown is too long to make it economical to replace Tac Team. The neccessity of carrying Tac Team hinders cruisers and sci vessels and their limited tactical BOFF slots.

    Because everyone (sorry for the generalization) accepts that Tac Team is a requirement for PVP, no one questions how underpowered any competing powers are. Even worse, the need for a build that includes Tac Team hinders potential creative builds.

    Although this sounds like a crusade against Tac Team, it is not. I am stating that any power, console, device, etc that is considered a requirement to be good at PVP is either overpowered or the alternate powers are underpowered.

    +1
    Since the game started I've wanted to slot in Attack pattern Delta onto my tanking cruisers, but the necessity for TT1 plus some form of AoE taunt slash weapons damage buff in FAW means my 2 tac slots will never change to anything else. PvP or PvE.
    AFMJGUR.jpg
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