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What is pvp skill and of winning and losing.
devorasx
Member Posts: 693
Heya folks.
Just wanted to discuss and highlight a very important issue, which I think many among us are very preoccupied with: Player skill.
But what im curios about is where this skill shines and makes it count. Is it first and foremost through teamplay or is it in glorious combat in duels? Are there more mental and intuitive qualities related or not?
Vise versa im too curios about what players dont consider skill, but an "easy" or "cheap" strategy.
Lastly i want to bring up the topic with good and sore losers, as well as cocky winners. Sure loosing sucks, but thats something you learn and grow from, and most people i know take a loss with a smile and moves on. But what to do with people who are sore losers, e.g the ones who will promise that you alone will be hunted down until vengenance is soothed? And lastly how would you deal with a cocky winner who will rub it in so it shines?
In my opinion player skill shines through teamplay. Through teamplay you dont just evolve yourself, but you help others grow too. The team creates a synergy among themselves, a force unstoppable. Its too via teamplay you develope communication skills and a keen mind of observation to be able to predict, anticipate your ship and abilties, your friends ships, and how to read your opponents gameplay.
Solo combat has it merits as well. Youre on your own, and you alone have to predict and defeat your enemy. This requires alot of intuition and to be able to know when to buff, when to strike, and when to move off.
Whats not skill? Stick on every annoying console and let that win for you. On top of that, picking FOTM ship(s) and win with it due to its superiority.
Well discuss
Just wanted to discuss and highlight a very important issue, which I think many among us are very preoccupied with: Player skill.
But what im curios about is where this skill shines and makes it count. Is it first and foremost through teamplay or is it in glorious combat in duels? Are there more mental and intuitive qualities related or not?
Vise versa im too curios about what players dont consider skill, but an "easy" or "cheap" strategy.
Lastly i want to bring up the topic with good and sore losers, as well as cocky winners. Sure loosing sucks, but thats something you learn and grow from, and most people i know take a loss with a smile and moves on. But what to do with people who are sore losers, e.g the ones who will promise that you alone will be hunted down until vengenance is soothed? And lastly how would you deal with a cocky winner who will rub it in so it shines?
In my opinion player skill shines through teamplay. Through teamplay you dont just evolve yourself, but you help others grow too. The team creates a synergy among themselves, a force unstoppable. Its too via teamplay you develope communication skills and a keen mind of observation to be able to predict, anticipate your ship and abilties, your friends ships, and how to read your opponents gameplay.
Solo combat has it merits as well. Youre on your own, and you alone have to predict and defeat your enemy. This requires alot of intuition and to be able to know when to buff, when to strike, and when to move off.
Whats not skill? Stick on every annoying console and let that win for you. On top of that, picking FOTM ship(s) and win with it due to its superiority.
Well discuss
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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Cheap no skill is using things that get discovered as being Overpowered, or too powerful for what it should be, yet used anyway.. This includes but is not limited to:
Tachyon Mines With Dispersal Pattern, Tricobalt Mines with Dispersal Patterns, Anti-matter spread, Graviton Pulse, etc.. etc..
Sore winners, are the ones that just HAVE to rub it in your face when they win.
Sore losers are the ones who gripe and whine about how their team sucked even if it was their fault for the loss (For example being the one farmed for 8 kills on the board)
Good Winners and Good Losers are the ones that usually say GG, when it actually is a good game. And who are willing to listen to praise, as well as ask for, and give advice when need be.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The best losers are those who acknowledge the loss and learn from it by asking the winning team what weakness they capitalised on. Its too easy saying we lost because they used broken TRIBBLE. Also they are willing to fight again knowing they might have the same outcome.
The best winners are those who win and offer up reasons why they won to the losing from their perspective and offer help without sounding arrogant. Also not behave like certain arrogant individuals who record things to rub it in later then clam it as "self defence". It always back fires sooner or later.
thats the problem though, everyone in this game already seems to have a hostile attitude to anyone that trys to help.
also, a lot of people tend to sound arrogant without meaning too because its hard to "hear" the words when someone just told you why they beat you....thats an internet thing though.
Do you even Science Bro?
I think having fun is much more important than having skill. And I think some really skilled players can create really unfun matches, because they try to win at all cost and by any means, not just win.
I think really skilled people can grab 4 strangers and take them to victory against all odds. And if things go bad, they do not start to moan in team chat, but laugh about it. Maybe it is not a pvp skill, but most certainly a player type I respect.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
The way i do it is if the person or team after the game says "wow, how did you do that?", they want help and are open to it. If they call you cheats, move on.
Another strategy is to "rp" a bit.....lol Yup, rp. Form alliances with fleets that want to explode into the pvp arenas and help them fleet to fleet. It seems to be working for us hand in hand with bootcamp.
Gear alone is never decides the outcome of a fight. I have seen a team in tier 3 ships take on tier 5 ships and win. More like 70/30 ability / gear
on the other hand a bad player to me is, who's using uncounterable abilities or intentionally tries to ruin others game-experience, and at least even seem to enjoy lame-style (some of them seem to be very skilled in acting such).
dont' get me wrong: sometimes i try it myself when i'm bored of being sn'd, viraled and sucked dry all the way by a whole team or even only one of my beloved "bad-players", but i'm not really good at.
i grab my transphasic bomber, which mostly only helps my logged dps
but i never would pack a ship full of op's like some already mentioned (only if you call a vesta with 2 tb's and advanced danubes op ^^)...
btw: i do use some of the consonles which come with ships. but indeed on most of my ships there's only the team fortress one (or the dedicated, if there's one. f.e. mvae...).
try to focus on own abilities/things that effect you or your teammates positively, not focussing on abilities that effect your enemies negatively (at least let there be any working counter). i think this i would call some kind of honor and pvp skill (even if only in a social way ^^).
(i've to state that to me passives like f.e. disruptor-procs don't count in this. somewhere the line had to be drawn i guess :cool:).
the best games to me are rounds when team and 1v1 battles mix and when the outcome of the game stays unclear till the last kill (and sometimes we, the randoms, beat that premade)
have good fights
From my POV PvP in every game is similar to chess so skill would be knowing how to manipulate your opponent or opponents depending on is it a team fight or 1v1 to bring them to a position where you have the upper hand.
I'd have to agree with everyone that the opposite of skill is knowing that something is overpowered and using it since that from my POV lets you skip more than one step in the manipulation i mentioned above...
When it comes to sore winners it's simple, don't oppose them, someone beats you and wants to rub it in don't let them, simply admit it, show them that you don't care, that usually puts them out of place as that's the last thing they expect lol
Sore losers, let them come, each attempt they make to take you down makes them better and each time it provides more and more of a challenge for you to defeat them making it more fun in the process.
Good losers are the ones that will bother to ask how/why they lost and in the end of the day try to improve so they can ask for a rematch, you know the kind of people you defeat and they end up on your friendslist XD
On the road where the dead years run
Cold as moonlight
Terrible as the sun
at this point in the game, skill still trumps gear. timing is still the key. understanding the cool downs of the powers you, and your teammates, as well as your enemy are running will create windows of opportunity for spike damage, and defensive postures.
i have seen this change greatly with the additions to the game over the past year, and i cannot deny that gear impacts the outcome a lot in some PUG matches, but i have also seen 2 great players take the lead and keep 3 average players alive through a ton of crazy console mess, and pull out a victory.
good sportsmanship, and an open mind are always key to good gaming, as well as most relationships you have with anything, and anyone in life.
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
Both of these involve buff watching, situational awareness, and resource allocation. So much of what I see actually get kills involves keeping track of abilities, it makes me feel like gear has less to do with winning. There's a barrier that sub-par builds won't overcome without fixing their problems, and there are outliers like tric mines, but I still think there's a large space where builds and gear are comparable enough.
Players like me know to wait until my target's tac team wears off before I shoot them. Really good players will bait their opponent into using tac team prematurely. Great players will see somebody use tac team, start a counter in their head, go shoot somebody else, then switch back when they know their first target is vulnerable. That involves watching the buffs, tracking the physical location of multiple targets over time, and keeping enough offense on hand to throw at the target of choice. When you get a target caller with the skills to track the cooldowns of multiple opponents it's a thing of beauty.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
1.)Weapons.
I started winning matches after I put MKXII purple weapons each costing around 6-10 mil on exchange.
2.)Ship.
If you don't have a good turn rate ,a good shield mod and some hull you have a handicap toward other players using better ships.A jhas versus another escort ,both with same weapons ,same skill pilot's who will win in the end ?
3.)Doffs
You must have and slot good doffs otherwise things won't go very good in PVP.Same ship ,same weapon one with doffs slotted one without doffs slotted it is easy to know wich will win if the pilots are equal in skill.
Skill in my opinion comes only after all those from above and it is proved in field when somebody having lower grade weapon's,lower grade ship manages to win against a similar or better configuration ship .Wining against a weaker adversary is not skill it is just applied mathematics.
* I am speaking from one ship to another ship encounters not about team fighting against another team .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Some of the better players have been owning with lesser weapons, even blue weapons. So that's not all of it at all.
And it's a team game, not an individual game. If you won a match it was because of the play of everyone, not just one player.
The second is knowing how to setup your UI.
Then you get the actually in-game skill.
Ive had this problem,,,i welcome advice to something i may be doing wrong, but have noticed when i try to give it i get shunned. I smashed some guy in 1vs1 couple months ago and got him on a team chat after the match and was asking what he was running and telling him what i exploited and what not then he just cut me off, left team chat and warped out and i never heard from him again,,,its as if it made him mad that maybe i knew more and was offering help.
I believe the proper team with mix of ships and abilities and good communication is the main key.
Sure it helps to have a kick TRIBBLE ship with all mark XII purple in every slot, cant argue that, i have that on a jem bug yet have hit the arena and literally had my rear end handed to me,,and its not necessarily because my teamates stunk or had bad consoles but more cause we didnt communicate. The first thing i always say in arena when it starts is "who is calling targets"?
Cannot tell you how many times ive done that and nobody responded and i knew we would lose.
I think we speak about different things.Let me clarify ,there are 2 P.V.P maps :arena and C&H.
I only speak about C&H because this is the map I like to play and I seldom play P.V.P arena.In C&H the most of the time you will be alone facing another ship.I adapted to this style of playing and what I have stated initially are the steps I did.
Here I think it does count what weapons you have,what shield mod ,turn rate you, doffs you have.
So take my initial statement as what I consider important for C&H not for arena.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U