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What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic?

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  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    yreodred wrote: »
    That's how space combat should work in STO in my opinion.

    It would be much more interesting than this boring trinity stuff we get presented.

    agreed. Ther ODDY, sov, and Gal should be the big three. different but equal.

    And again a good way to redo the galaxy and be canon. ALL UNIVERSAL BO SLOTS for the R. Then people can do what they want with the ship, be tack leaning, or sci leaning or a just more balance ship. Hnger bay not required but be cool.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    khan5000 wrote: »
    10 years is a lot.
    Within the last ten years we've seen:
    smart phone technology...cell phones look and perform differently than phones from 10 years ago. This is about to change again this year as the smart watch comes out.

    10 years ago we were still playing games on the Playstation 2, the Game Cube, the original Xbox.

    Cars now have Electronic Stability Control, We have hybrid cars now, satellite radio and multimedia device integration...
    Cars now have sensors and cameras that monitor for obstructions and apply brakes by themselves.

    and this is just a few things...10 years is a long time when developing technology.
    Even in Star Trek within that time we've seen the beginning of bio-neural circuitry, quantum torpedoes and phasers that self re-modulate...who knows what else they came up with.
    Ships get constantly updates. If not, even your beloved Sovereign would be hoplessly outdated by 2409.

    On the other hand what big breakthrough has been made between the launch of the GCS and Sov?
    Don't you think those advances have been relatively insignificant compared to the 30 years since the Sov have been launched?
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    yreodred wrote: »
    Ships get constantly updates. If not, even your beloved Sovereign would be hoplessly outdated by 2409.

    On the other hand what big breakthrough has been made between the launch of the GCS and Sov?
    Don't you think those advances have been relatively insignificant compared to the 30 years since the Sov have been launched?

    I think we were going by comparison. Take the Galaxy at lauch and compare it to Sovereign at launch. some signifigant developments happened there. now DW gals would likely have most of them built in without a doubt, however dismissing 10 years is a major error. Aslo compare the sov at launch to oddy at launch more differences. heck compare a sto sov to sov at launch their wil be differences. heck E-E got refited between Inserection and Nemisis.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think we were going by comparison. Take the Galaxy at lauch and compare it to Sovereign at launch. some signifigant developments happened there. now DW gals would likely have most of them built in without a doubt, however dismissing 10 years is a major error. Aslo compare the sov at launch to oddy at launch more differences. heck compare a sto sov to sov at launch their wil be differences. heck E-E got refited between Inserection and Nemisis.
    Who says the GCS hasn't been modified and updated in its first 10 years or later?

    Just as the Sovereign, the GCS has and will be continously be updated until it will be taken out of service. (in 60 years or even later)

    Realize it, the Sovereign isn't the "most advanced" ship like when it was launched. The GCS and Sov aren't the newest ships anymore. Both ship types will get the same updates though. Their mass and size dictate how powerful the installed equipment is and how these ships will operate in space combat.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This where I am not with some of those arguing about the Galaxy superiority. When the game cam out, I worked my way up to the "Assault Cruiser" (Sovy' Class) because it was the most tactical cruiser in game, only problem I had with the Assault cruiser was there wasn't much assault in it, not because of what I saw it or any other ship did on screen. If I had been more for tanking and healing buds, the Star Cruiser would have been the chocie (the only two types of cruisers at the time). Then the Excel came out, it was more of what I wanted, so I drove it and liked it and more or less stuck with it.

    I have bought other ships, including all variants of the Galaxy, and when they suit me, I use them. Just because the ship skin you love doesn't do it for you doesn't mean that Cryptic is out to get you. Have you ever been on a date with a hot girl and her personality was so opposite of your tolerance that you couldn't see her again? I did.

    I understand the frustration with the ship performance, but the problem lies in the cruiser matrix in the game. Focus on fixing the cruiser matrix and you will make more ground than being fanatical about one skin in the game. Wanting to make you skin the same as another cruiser skin doesn't argue well with stakeholders in the game, it probalby just sounds like fanboyism to some. Do you really want to sound like this?:

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/trekkies/n9511/
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This where I am not with some of those arguing about the Galaxy superiority. When the game cam out, I worked my way up to the "Assault Cruiser" (Sovy' Class) because it was the most tactical cruiser in game, only problem I had with the Assault cruiser was there wasn't much assault in it, not because of what I saw it or any other ship did on screen. If I had been more for tanking and healing buds, the Star Cruiser would have been the chocie (the only two types of cruisers at the time). Then the Excel came out, it was more of what I wanted, so I drove it and liked it and more or less stuck with it.

    I have bought other ships, including all variants of the Galaxy, and when they suit me, I use them. Just because the ship skin you love doesn't do it for you doesn't mean that Cryptic is out to get you. Have you ever been on a date with a hot girl and her personality was so opposite of your tolerance that you couldn't see her again? I did.

    I understand the frustration with the ship performance, but the problem lies in the cruiser matrix in the game. Focus on fixing the cruiser matrix and you will make more ground than being fanatical about one skin in the game. Wanting to make you skin the same as another cruiser skin doesn't argue well with stakeholders in the game, it probalby just sounds like fanboyism to some. Do you really want to sound like this?:

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/trekkies/n9511/

    I think it is not only us.
    Cryptic uses the Galaxy Class everywhere possible (rep store for example and various promo shots), because they exactly know that this ship is so popular. But if anyone raises the topic about improving/reworking it they insistently seem to ignore it regardless.


    But you are right, not only the Galaxy class suffers from the trinity system but all cruisers in this game. The GCS however the most IMO.
    Of course it would be the best if Cryptics devs would completely rework cruiser mechanics in STO, but this seems not very likeable to me.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This where I am not with some of those arguing about the Galaxy superiority. When the game cam out, I worked my way up to the "Assault Cruiser" (Sovy' Class) because it was the most tactical cruiser in game, only problem I had with the Assault cruiser was there wasn't much assault in it, not because of what I saw it or any other ship did on screen. If I had been more for tanking and healing buds, the Star Cruiser would have been the chocie (the only two types of cruisers at the time). Then the Excel came out, it was more of what I wanted, so I drove it and liked it and more or less stuck with it.

    I have bought other ships, including all variants of the Galaxy, and when they suit me, I use them. Just because the ship skin you love doesn't do it for you doesn't mean that Cryptic is out to get you. Have you ever been on a date with a hot girl and her personality was so opposite of your tolerance that you couldn't see her again? I did.

    I understand the frustration with the ship performance, but the problem lies in the cruiser matrix in the game. Focus on fixing the cruiser matrix and you will make more ground than being fanatical about one skin in the game. Wanting to make you skin the same as another cruiser skin doesn't argue well with stakeholders in the game, it probalby just sounds like fanboyism to some. Do you really want to sound like this?:

    yes, just asking that the galaxy been given the regent bo layout is not a good idea.
    it will mean that you want to give the same "role" as the regent.
    if we want to convinced cryptic to change the crappy bo layout of the galaxy and dreadnought cruiser we have to propose an alternative that give this ship some unique role to fill.
    in fact we will have to think about something that only this ship could do "properly" and this could then, be enhanced by set power.
    we must think about all the good things that this ship was capable in the show and use them as set power or abilites.
    and this have no obligation to be focus on dps.
    in fact i think that something that get out of this focus could give the ship and the game some new air, maybe some new direction.
  • admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,561 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    yreodred wrote: »
    Who says the GCS hasn't been modified and updated in its first 10 years or later?

    Just as the Sovereign, the GCS has and will be continously be updated until it will be taken out of service. (in 60 years or even later)

    Realize it, the Sovereign isn't the "most advanced" ship like when it was launched. The GCS and Sov aren't the newest ships anymore. Both ship types will get the same updates though. Their mass and size dictate how powerful the installed equipment is and how these ships will operate in space combat.

    You missed the fact I said the DW Gal will have the gelpacks. but the USS Galaxy would not till she's due for major refit.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    the basic fundamentals of ships are an extreamly mature technology by the late 24rd century. its why they can expect a space frame will still be useful at 100 years old, and wouldn't be so below code by then that it wouldn't be considered space worthy. the majority of ships in service at the galaxy's launch were built to 23rd century spec after all. an NX would be a transistor, and a Sovereign a micro chip, to use that example. the NX01 basically had every fundamental component the E-E had, only the tech was much less advanced.

    star fleet considered 20 years a technological age, because that how long a ship goes between a near total system swap out, of anything thats become marginally more advanced since launch, or the last overhawl. most galaxy class wouldn't be due for theirs until the mid 2380s, with lesser scale upgrades happening fairly often too. presumably a year or 2 after other classes launched with new tech, ships of slightly older classes still being built had the new tech incorporated into thier initial construction.

    in the mid 2380s, the galaxy class would leapfrog other slightly newer designs like the intrepid, akira and sovereign as far as most advanced goes, being as impressive as it was compared to everything else when it first launched. and then again, in the decade prior and after 2409, galaxys would be receiving yet another major overhaul. in game they should be quite a good choice of ship as a result. and just like the galaxy replaced the ambassador, the odyssey class has begun taking over the top full sized explorer position. though the galaxy had quite a bit less factors obsoleting it, unlike the ambassador class.


    one thing ive never really been able to figure out were the star cruiser would fit into any sort of logic. there was no reason for it to exist wile the galaxy class existed. game would make more sense if the galaxy was the 'star cruiser' at launch. it being at a lower tier then the soverign annoyed the hell out of me, as you can imagine. at least with retrofits, their might as well not be tiers below 5.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ...
    one thing ive never really been able to figure out were the star cruiser would fit into any sort of logic. there was no reason for it to exist wile the galaxy class existed. game would make more sense if the galaxy was the 'star cruiser' at launch. it being at a lower tier then the soverign annoyed the hell out of me, as you can imagine. at least with retrofits, their might as well not be tiers below 5.

    I initially thought that the Star Cruiser would be the GCS successor, but its nature as pure healboat makes no sense of it.
    But i think the Star Cruiser design is too much advanced for a game taking place in the beginning 25th century, except if it where something like a oversized Intrepid with muscles.
    I was thinking that Starfleet ship desingers used the experience Vyoager made to build a ship capable of independent operations far away from any support. Something like a extreme long range explorer, but as i already said its BOFF layout makes that ship far too teethless.


    To be honest when i started playing STO i was a huge fan of the Star Cruiser design, and the introduction of the Mirror Assault Cruiser, was one of the very few things i really found to be a cool step by Cryptic.
    I just wish that the Star Crusier appearance would be applyabe to the Fleet Regent. :o
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    yreodred wrote: »
    I think it is not only us.
    Cryptic uses the Galaxy Class everywhere possible (rep store for example and various promo shots), because they exactly know that this ship is so popular. But if anyone raises the topic about improving/reworking it they insistently seem to ignore it regardless.

    Honestly, when I think of the most pictured ship in the game, I think of that modernized looking Tier 2 cruiser that seems to be plastered everywhere, but I may be wrong.

    yreodred wrote: »
    But you are right, not only the Galaxy class suffers from the trinity system but all cruisers in this game. The GCS however the most IMO.
    Of course it would be the best if Cryptics devs would completely rework cruiser mechanics in STO, but this seems not very likeable to me.

    Just to make sure I am following you, likable or likely?
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Honestly, when I think of the most pictured ship in the game, I think of that modernized looking Tier 2 cruiser that seems to be plastered everywhere, but I may be wrong.
    I'm not sure if it is the most pictured ship, but when looking at the example pictures at the rep stores, i find it striking how often the Galaxy class is pictured with the Borg set or other stuff. But that's just my personal observation, maybe it's just me.
    Just to make sure I am following you, likable or likely?

    Likely, sorry. :o
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • slickrick1707eslickrick1707e Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    But the Galaxy has an acting ensign slot!
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The ensign could have been far more beneficial as a UNI.

    The Fleet Support and the Fleet Assault both have UNI's, the Fleet Exploration could have too.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • slickrick1707eslickrick1707e Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The ensign could have been far more beneficial as a UNI.

    The Fleet Support and the Fleet Assault both have UNI's, the Fleet Exploration could have too.

    It's more beneficial as an acting ensign, you get your very own Wesley Crusher!
  • edited September 2013
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    edalgo wrote: »
    Still a better pilot than Troi!

    Are you insinuating women can't drive ships? :P
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited September 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • ehgatoehgato Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    edalgo wrote: »
    I'm insinuating that a 14 year old boy is a better pilot than Troi.


    XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD



    LOL man i almost could not breathe from laughter..
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    total justification for a galaxy universal ENS. the Wesley station :o
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    total justification for a galaxy universal ENS. the Wesley station :o

    Fleet version should get a uni Lt. since the Wesley has been promoted. :D
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Only if everytime you use it there is a Shut up Wesley option!
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,009 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Wesley even annoyed Guinan, that has to count for something :D Oh yes, and the ship needs a "Traveler" ability to instantly win everything... :p

    But on a serious note, the uni lt. fits very well. Make it a engineering heavy Nebula mirror.

    Fleet:
    44,000 hull
    1.1 shield
    6 turn
    4/4 weapons
    4/3/3 consoles (Eng/Sci/Tac)
    COM eng
    LTC Sci
    LT tac
    LT uni
    ENS eng

    Would be a nice ship, not negating the assault, support or odyssey cruisers. Though the support cruiser really should have a 4/4/2 console layout, but whatever.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Wesley even annoyed Guinan, that has to count for something :D Oh yes, and the ship needs a "Traveler" ability to instantly win everything... :p

    But on a serious note, the uni lt. fits very well. Make it a engineering heavy Nebula mirror.

    Fleet:
    44,000 hull
    1.1 shield
    6 turn
    4/4 weapons
    4/3/3 consoles (Eng/Sci/Tac)
    COM eng
    LTC Sci
    LT tac
    LT uni
    ENS eng

    Would be a nice ship, not negating the assault, support or odyssey cruisers. Though the support cruiser really should have a 4/4/2 console layout, but whatever.

    That is a fantastic design. I would do dirty things for that setup, and i would do dirty things in it......
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    edalgo wrote: »
    I'm insinuating that a 14 year old boy is a better pilot than Troi.

    Hey now, she is a very good driver. Aside from pedestrians she hits everything she aims at.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Wesley even annoyed Guinan, that has to count for something :D Oh yes, and the ship needs a "Traveler" ability to instantly win everything... :p

    But on a serious note, the uni lt. fits very well. Make it a engineering heavy Nebula mirror.

    Fleet:
    44,000 hull
    1.1 shield
    6 turn
    4/4 weapons
    4/3/3 consoles (Eng/Sci/Tac)
    COM eng
    LTC Sci
    LT tac
    LT uni
    ENS eng

    Would be a nice ship, not negating the assault, support or odyssey cruisers. Though the support cruiser really should have a 4/4/2 console layout, but whatever.
    I like it. :)

    I think this is the most coherent Galaxy Class BOFF and Console Layouts in this thread.
    Together with the Nebula both ships would have something in common, besides the appearance and it would fit very well to the Galaxys theme and the GCS wouldn't be the most boring ship anymore.


    I agree the Support Cruisers (Ambassador -R) should have got a 4,4,2 Console Layout in order to make this ship able SUPPORT accordingly.
    So the tactical superority of the Galaxy Class compared to the Ambassador would be realized, in contrast to now where the Ambassador (and Excelsior) have more firepower than the Galaxy.
    (i have no idea who comes up with such an idea...)


    Btw. the Lt.Cmdr would be the Data BOFF station. :cool:

    EDIT:
    i think THIS idea would help all cruisers, especially the GCS.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • edited September 2013
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,009 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    edalgo wrote: »
    Who told Wesley to shut up first on the show? Picard, Beverly or Guinan?

    If Wesley's ensign station gets universal why not Data's? LtCmdr Universal station since Data could do all of those roles, at once probably too.

    Cmdr Eng
    Lt tac
    Lt sci
    LtCmdr universal
    Ensign universal

    That plus a Galaxy 3 pack. Each would have 4 console slots in either eng, sci or tac.

    But that would outclass/negate quite a few cruisers, including the Odyssey Class even. Making a ltc or even a cmdr boff station universal (or even all of them) just isn't a realistic option for the game which depends on people buying ships if they want a specific set-up. We have to keep that in mind and I think the engineering "Nebula" set-up I suggested is not taken right now, I might be mistaken however.

    Anyway, thanks guys, I appreciate your support on this one :)

    @ yreodred: Tying manual shield redistribution to turn rate (and thus ship mass) sounds like a neat idea :) Someone has to take a look at the numbers wether this would be a viable thing. I prefer that over "everybody can tank anyway" :D
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • edited September 2013
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  • edited September 2013
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