I hate that statement because it doesn't help in any way. Everytime someone is asking for advice in a MMO someone says "do what you want". The posters intention may be meant to be nice, but it doesnt freaking help in any way.
The point is NOT if someone can use the Galaxy -R in a ESTF or in PvP, no one forbits that, the point is does it any good?
And the answer is NO, because the Galaxy -R just lacks at all ends.
Too little offensive power, bad BOFF layout, bad Console Layout, way too low turnrate and so on.
The Galaxy -R represents the worst combination of engineering/tactical/science powers in the game.
It's not only because Cryptic made it completly wrong relating to the Shows, they just made it the most boring and passive ship in their game.
Just as you said, the Excelsior has been made much better, just because some dev is a fan of that ship. :rolleyes:
But this isn't a thread for advice. This is a thread of people who want to fly a ship but feel they can't because it doesn't do enough damage. I have been in plenty of STFs and ESTFs with Galaxies and they pulled their weight.
As I said before I have a level 50 running around in a connie. It's awesome to see those blue phasers hit a borg sphere. My fleet can't wait for me to run STFs in it. It's been the most fun I have had in this game.
This is supposed to be fun. It's a game. Don't let the game or min-max'ers tell you how to play. Fly your Galaxy and be proud of it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
remember that those 'trigger happy' people defeated the TRIBBLE's and saved many lives. don't insult my country again.
It is not an insult, just an observation. The most powerful armed forces currently in history resides in the U.S.A. and as a country we are only slightly hesitant to use that force.
And yes I said we. US Air Force veteran, and I see no insult.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
They can go ahead and release the console...I won't buy it.
You hate the statement because it doesn't fit your view. The problem with this game is everyone trying to fly the newest, most DPS...
If you want to fly the Galaxy fly it...can you use it in end game...yup because I've done plenty of STFs and ESTFs with them...so whats the problem?
the problem is that we paid 2500z for this ship and that it is even not as potentially efficient as a "free" star cruiser.
some people go into estf with a connie, good for them if they like it, but i think they would take it rather bad if we ask them to paid 2500z for these stats and show it as a tier 5 ship and rightfully so.
this example is exaggerated, but the principle remains correct for the galaxy
It doesn't match up to the other cruisers...it shouldn't since there are 2 versions of cruisers above it.
absolutly not, this is a game, not the show, all ship should be on part with eatch other in there respective role.
that not mean that the galaxy should be more powerfull than an odyssey or exelsior, but as efficient as.
in the end the question that we should ask is why it is always the same that get what they were told they would get, and alway the same who should just be happy with what they got, even if that not what they were told they would have.
remember that those 'trigger happy' people defeated the TRIBBLE's and saved many lives. don't insult my country again.
I didn't know that TNG was produced in the 30s and TNG movies/DS9/Voy/Ent in the 40s, lol.
Seriously, i was talking about the paranoia which spread out in the late 90 and beginning 21 century. WWII has nothing to do with this.
In my eyes one of the strenghts of Star Trek was its positive view of a possible future humanity, which was almost completely lost when DS9 started the Dominion War.
Since then one can see a continuing trend towards a more militaristic Star Trek disconnecting more and more from its basic principles and making Star Trek more and generic and exchangeable with other Sci fi universes. (btw, compared with other space War series/Movies Star Trek isn't so great at all IMO.)
True but the cost of retrofitting the DW galaxies with newer technologies of the sovereign it'd probably be cheaper to just build a new sovereign from the ground up.
Now since every ship in the game is customizable and the options for the galaxies are horrible at end game cryptic should make some improvements to the layout to at the very least be competitive with other cruisers.
Thats exactly my point, just because it is more expensive or more complex to refit the same ship over and over again, doesn't mean that the same ship (if overhauled) would perform worse compared to a specialized ship.
Does Godwin's law even apply to discussions about in-game representations of fictional starships?
@yreodred: I just want to point out that I don't hate the Gal-R ingame. I'm playing one, even in ESTFs and nobody has accused me of slowing things down yet I think more and more what would help all cruisers and the Gal in particular would be if Cryptic would overhaul all or at least the Engineer-BOFF abilities. The truth is, damage or tac focus aside, the ENG ensign on the Gal-R is pretty much "broken" since it can only slot a EPtX1 ability or a ET1. That means with 3 BOFF slots this slot WILL cause overlapping cooldowns or at least is perma-fixed to either one of those abilities. I think (I might be wrong though) that this applies to no other department. This should have been fixed from the beginning since it's obviously borked.
It was broken or better said bad design from the beginning and they made the Galaxy Class "suffer" most from this bad made concept.
I don't think a new BOFF layout would help, and they won't change the layout of existing ships (payships even) ever - so maybe there's a way to fix at least the mechanics that make the ship sub-par by either expanding non dps-centric content, improve/fix the BOFF skills or some sort of special console/set bonus for the Gal.
Yeah, i'm afraid you are right.
Realisticly, our only chance to get what we want is to hope they will change the rather suboptimal engineering BOFF power range, espically the rank I ones.
I think the potential "costs" of retrofitting ships in STO isn't of any meaning, I mean they retrofit Excelsiors and Ambassadors and Defiants and stuff - this should be a purely gameplay driven discussion. Because consistency and canon (even in-game canon) went out the airlock LOOOONG ago
Agreed, STO has moved already so far away from being considered a canon we shouldn't care about it anymore.
I find it just annoying and just barefaced that they made clearly inferior ships more powerful than the Galaxy Class.
Don't get me wrong i wasn't a big Galaxy Class fan in the beginning of STO, but the more it gets ignored the more i think it's been treated unfair, especially if you consider its "historical" value. It was the ship that led Star Trek into a new era. Previously it was just a Kirk and Spock TV show, but with TNG and the following series the universe became huge. And it was the ship many of us have grown up with or have become Star Trek fans. Now Cryptics devs made it the most boring ship in STO, great...:rolleyes:
But this isn't a thread for advice. This is a thread of people who want to fly a ship but feel they can't because it doesn't do enough damage. I have been in plenty of STFs and ESTFs with Galaxies and they pulled their weight.
As I said before I have a level 50 running around in a connie. It's awesome to see those blue phasers hit a borg sphere. My fleet can't wait for me to run STFs in it. It's been the most fun I have had in this game.
This is supposed to be fun. It's a game. Don't let the game or min-max'ers tell you how to play. Fly your Galaxy and be proud of it.
I am in no way a Min/Max type of player, but i can see when a ship isn't as strong/useful as other ships.
I hope you are just doing STFs with your fleetmates, but if you going into a ESTF without people knowing you it can become quite messy IMO.
My point is, of course you can fly any ship you want, but the Galaxy -R is just bad made for a T5 ship.
The Constitution isn't a T5 ship so you can't expect it to compare it with a Galaxy Class. (btw. it's already har enough to see a Excelsior outperform a Galaxy Class, just because one dev likes that ship, but seeing a Constitution being on par with a Galaxy Class would make me leave the game at once.)
It is not an insult, just an observation. The most powerful armed forces currently in history resides in the U.S.A. and as a country we are only slightly hesitant to use that force.
And yes I said we. US Air Force veteran, and I see no insult.
Thanks, and let me assure you it wasn't meant as an insult at all, just as you said.
But if some people WANT to missunderstand me, i can't stop them from doing so.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I think the main question to the devs should be, how does one handle a ship with 3 Engineering Ensign BOFF stations?
As much as i know the Galaxy Class is the only ship in STO with such a BOFF Layout, i'm curious how the devs expected us to use this BOFF layout in the first place.
I mean didn't they notice that you can only have a certain amount of useable Rank I BOFF powers without having them get in the way with each other.
Unlike Science and Tactical there are just to few possible practical options.
It's not only that, in my opinion Engineering has just too few offensive powers compared to Science for example, making crusiers too passive IMO.
I think they need to rework at least some BOFF powers, especially EptW and Aceton Beam (which is really completely useless IMO)
Here some Questions that come to my mind:
What if Tactical Team, Engineering Team and Science Team wouldn't share their CD ?
For the Galaxy this would mean it could use ET at the 3. Ensign without having to
sacrifice the ship when not using TT in combat. Would it be too powerful on the other
hand?
What if AtS wouldn't share their cooldown with AtB anymore?
What if AtB Rank I would startt at ensign, instead ot Lieutenant?
What if Aceton beam would be reworked into something like a Beam Boardside Power?
(would anyone actually miss Aceton Beam?)
Don't missunderstand me here, i am not suggesting all these options, i am rather curious what you guys think about it.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
As someone who has had an engy parked in a galaxy for a very long time I completely agree with almost everything on this thread!! The ship needs updating, we need a 3 pack galaxy with all the updated toys and a modern boff layout. STO also needs an updated Galaxy Dreadnaught... Soo,, how about this. Galaxy 3 pack with a bonus for anyone who already has the dreadnaught! THe bonus being a new and improved, saucer seperating, phaser lance actually working, BOFF layout functioning, console redoing badass of a ship!
I would pay 50$ for the 3 pack 2 months in advance if the devs would release this!! I am a HUGE fan of cruisers simply because i tweak my setups so i can ATTEMPT to fly them like escorts.. dont always succeed,, but its the attempt that makes things fun!!!
As i dont have time to scan through 100+ pages to see if the devs have responded to this thread im going to assume they havent. I have, however, heard some rumbleings recently that the Galaxy X refit is still in the works... ive heard this for over a year.. so im NOT holding my breath,, however with the list of ships at least SEEMINGLY growing smaller,,, the possibility of our hopes comming to fruition seems at least fractional better.
In the mean time i will enjoy flying the Galaxy such as it is,, i will enjoy watching the newest shinniest escorts DIE multiple times in STF's while i spam the space bar 9000 times and keep my shields and weapons power at 120% for ALMOST the entire mission with little to no effort... while doing,,, moderately good dps... and,, every so often,, tweaking my setup to squeeze that little bit more out of the old girl...
Just my two Zen worth of input...
*************************** Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon Fighting 5th Attack Squadron The Devils Henchman
first look at gal's stats I didn't see a problem. seemed like a perfect ship for an engie running beam overload 2 and mounting three torps forward. deal break for me on Gal is while it's separated my boarding party shuttles spawn from the stardrive. Excelsior lookin stylish glad I bought it instead.
doesn't mean it wasn't a heartbreaker to do tho.. wanted to run the ship every1 hates. just look so damn stupid withboarding party ugh I couldn't stand it!
something cool make me skip boarding party yeah i'll dig the galaxy..
Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.
one of the reason fed cruisers get out classed by new tiers is the reason why you're saying the Galaxy class is so great lore wise: the Federation makes capable exploration cruisers. so much so that they made more before the lifetime of the galaxy was up.
going back many pages: The Federation has updated to more streamlined vessels because all of the huge warp fields from ships like Galaxies were being to damage subspace ( TNG S7E9 "Force of Nature"). Some Continuity concerns arose from this seeming to not be mentioned again, though some tech guides mention the Intrepid-Class being designed to prevent this issue.
This kind of hits on slipstream/transwarp arguements 30 pages back or so too, but more importantly, it's why Starfleet replaced the Galaxy a couple by a few classes. Wider ships would have larger subspace field implications. Also, all Trek FTL systems seem to work the same projecting a bubble or circular shape relative to the direction of motion in order to maintain simple field mechanics. This isn't just Sci-Fi at this point but everyday physics and engineering: Design Dynamics considering the medium of travel and drag or drag like effects it can produce (more so when you consider the cited episode's speed limit issue)
So Starfleet made smaller ships lessening the impact and stopped using the big ones outside of long range missions or conflicts that arose like with DS9.
the idea that a ship that isn't streamlined would be as capable of generating suitable slipstream/transwarp effects isn't completely wrong, it would just take more more energy to obtain. as long as we're all using the same power plants in our ships, the bigger bulkier ones just aren't going to be able to keep up. that whole debate probably died off, but reading through it made me sad that the argument didn't make sense if a subspace field operated similar to magnetic and electric fields in normal space (TNG showed that they do in many episodes on many diagrams and displays)
I'm all for someone wanting to fly around in a Galaxy for lore purposes, but ships like the Galaxy-X weren't made up for the game. They were a natural progression of ship modification for the class in at least one timeline. So if you're going for a retrofit Galaxy, just get used to the X. You'd be better off asking for the ability to hide the extra components of it in the customize ship options than get a new ship line added in to fit a niche already filled. ( if you really want to be useful in a galaxy, get some +threat and keep the borg insta-escort death away from us )
the galaxy wasn't replaced by anything in all of canon. you cant replace your largest and most capable ships with smaller inferior ships. the intrepid and sovereign fill niches underneath the galaxy. its not the galaxy class that was damaging subspace, literally everything was. but, that was a plot point they decided they regretted creating, so they basically said they came up with a workaround so it doesn't damage subspace anymore, so the heroes dont have to putt around. the galaxy being 100 meters wider then other ships is not going to make that big a deal, plus, the galaxy is basically shaped like a collection of wings, its extreamly aerodynamic, we are assuming that maters in space im guessing.
the galaxy X is a joke. the underslung phaser is a joke, the long arrays the ship already had are the most powerful ship based weapons in the fleet already with a fireing arc of everything the array had line of sight with. its a better weapon in every way then the lance, any tech that could make the lance more powerful could by applied to the array as well, they are both powered by the same thing. its redundant and stupid, same goes for an extra nacelle. Q imagined up a riced out hot rod that all.
I mean didn't they notice that you can only have a certain amount of useable Rank I BOFF powers without having them get in the way with each other.
Unlike Science and Tactical there are just to few possible practical options.
This is actually something many have wondered for a long time.
I think it all lies with design decisions made a long time ago. For reasons unknown to us they decided that some powers that are clearly engineering based and not science based should be classed as science boff powers. Polarize Hull and Tractor Beam would fit easily as engineering powers, but they are inexplicably grouped with sci powers. That these two powers are misplaced or were moved late in the design of the game is obvious when one looks at how overcrowded the low level sci abilities are when compared to tac and engineering.
the galaxy wasn't replaced by anything in all of canon. you cant replace your largest and most capable ships with smaller inferior ships. the intrepid and sovereign fill niches underneath the galaxy. its not the galaxy class that was damaging subspace, literally everything was. but, that was a plot point they decided they regretted creating, so they basically said they came up with a workaround so it doesn't damage subspace anymore, so the heroes dont have to putt around. the galaxy being 100 meters wider then other ships is not going to make that big a deal, plus, the galaxy is basically shaped like a collection of wings, its extreamly aerodynamic, we are assuming that maters in space im guessing.
the galaxy X is a joke. the underslung phaser is a joke, the long arrays the ship already had are the most powerful ship based weapons in the fleet already with a fireing arc of everything the array had line of sight with. its a better weapon in every way then the lance, any tech that could make the lance more powerful could by applied to the array as well, they are both powered by the same thing. its redundant and stupid, same goes for an extra nacelle. Q imagined up a riced out hot rod that all.
Very true, The Galaxy -X perfectly fits into one of Qs weird jokes, nothing more.
Also if you look at it from a aerodynamic point of view, i think the Galaxy has a much more aerodynamic shape than the Sovereign, especially when you zoom in very close you can see some steps and edges, the Galaxy Claas doesn't have.
The shape argument isn't valid in the first place, since the Galaxy Class warp field can be shaped into very different forms. (TNG 1x06: Where No One Has Gone Before).
So again, (in universe) there was absolutely no need to replace the Galaxy with the Sovereign. The sovereigns shape must have something to do with the more tactical focussed nature of the ship. Maybe just to give the ship a smaller outline when doing a frontal attack. I think it's more like you said, the Sovereign and Intrepid are more specialized shipa, but not as versatile than the Galaxy Class.
This is actually something many have wondered for a long time.
I think it all lies with design decisions made a long time ago. For reasons unknown to us they decided that some powers that are clearly engineering based and not science based should be classed as science boff powers. Polarize Hull and Tractor Beam would fit easily as engineering powers, but they are inexplicably grouped with sci powers. That these two powers are misplaced or were moved late in the design of the game is obvious when one looks at how overcrowded the low level sci abilities are when compared to tac and engineering.
I think these are excellent examples of missplaced BOFF powers in STO.
But now there is little to do against that, imagine the riot if the devs would make Tractor Beam an Engineering power, lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy wasn't replaced by anything in all of canon. you cant replace your largest and most capable ships with smaller inferior ships.
you don't need a luxury SUV to take the kids to school.
If we take your stance on things we can easily say that the Galaxy was over designed to do a lot of things that ultimately are better handled by more specialized ships. Assuming for a moment that the Galaxy was indeed designed as some sort of space battleship, we must also remember it was also designed as a space city, complete with space grade schools, space families, and space pets. The Galaxy design was a mishmash and a mess. Better to retire it and move on to fresh new designs not made by a committe composed of beings from the "friendship and peace at all costs" party with a token starfleet ensign thrown in political correctness.
Edit: I get it that a lot of that was done to allow for different plots to occur on the ship, but it always felt odd. Its still a ship, not a mobile space station.
you don't need a luxury SUV to take the kids to school.
If we take your stance on things we can easily say that the Galaxy was over designed to do a lot of things that ultimately are better handled by more specialized ships. Assuming for a moment that the Galaxy was indeed designed as some sort of space battleship, we must also remember it was also designed as a space city, complete with space grade schools, space families, and space pets. The Galaxy design was a mishmash and a mess. Better to retire it and move on to fresh new designs not made by a committe composed of beings from the "friendship and peace at all costs" party with a token starfleet ensign thrown in political correctness.
Edit: I get it that a lot of that was done to allow for different plots to occur on the ship, but it always felt odd. Its still a ship, not a mobile space station.
All previous starfleet starships where Multi Mission capable, the Galaxy class was the ultimate one. Families and kids where on board because it was doing scientific and diplomatic missions at peace times. As we saw at "Cahain of Command" the Galaxy Class could have been outfitted and optimized for combat even in space without a Spacedock to be able to single-handedly take on 3 Galor Class ships.
You shouldn't forget that the big D was mostly there to represent the principles of the Federation (which is peace, not kill everything in sight, as some want it to be).
The new generation of Galaxy Class ships (Dominion War) surel didn't went into Battle with their Families on board. I think it's save to assume that Starfleet abandoned the concept of taking Families to the unexplored Frontier after the Dominion War.
So with no Families on Board and thus having much more space, i think a post DW Galaxy Class would perform way better than the Diplomatic and representative Enterprise -D. Plus let's not forget the technological progress.
When designing the Galaxy Class, Starfleet engineers have included everything they learned from the Excelsior and Ambassador, so the Galaxy Class should be much better prepared to make use of new technology, like better Phaser arrays, stronger shielding and of course more advanced Warp cores. The Galaxy Class ist still the biggest (canon) starfleet ship ever build, so it should be easy to keep it up to date as technology progresses.
Off topic:
I have no idea why so many people oppose to the idea of reworking the Galaxy Class or even refuse to acknowledge that this ship was far more than just a living room in space. Just because it didn't look like a Battlestar?
I mean i deeply hate all escorts and especially the Defiant in STO, but i don't see any reason to deny escort jockeys their favorite ships.
There are so many other ships in STO to fly, if someone doesn't like the Galaxy i'm perfectly ok with that, but to agressively fight the idea of making it as strong/versatile as it should have been from the beginning just goes beyond me.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
That's the big missconception most people do. Just because something doesn't look military badass doesn't mean it's a spacefaring living room.
Let me just quote one of angrytargs previous posts:
This statement sums it all up IMO.
Personally i especially like the synergy of the Galaxies nice appearance huge amount of power.
Everyone can look Badass, but very few can unite nice shapes and power.
You missed the point again, the "Love Boat" reputation wasn't earned because it didn't look "military badass", it was because of the actions of its crew and the civilian/ luxury aspects it portrayed. The pajama uniforms the first few seasons surely didn't help either. With those aspects it could have had a Wave Motion Gun, Reflex Cannons bolted out the wazoo of the outside and it still wouldnt have helped.
As far as its appearance goes, you are entitled to your opinion and tastes, as I am to mine.
you don't need a luxury SUV to take the kids to school.
If we take your stance on things we can easily say that the Galaxy was over designed to do a lot of things that ultimately are better handled by more specialized ships. Assuming for a moment that the Galaxy was indeed designed as some sort of space battleship, we must also remember it was also designed as a space city, complete with space grade schools, space families, and space pets. The Galaxy design was a mishmash and a mess. Better to retire it and move on to fresh new designs not made by a committe composed of beings from the "friendship and peace at all costs" party with a token starfleet ensign thrown in political correctness.
Edit: I get it that a lot of that was done to allow for different plots to occur on the ship, but it always felt odd. Its still a ship, not a mobile space station.
heres some galaxy class cliff notes, established in canon and by uncontradicted information in the tech manual. its going to contradict this notion antifans of the ship have that it was built to be the peace love boat.
-twice the volume of the ambassador class it replaced. also about twice the volume of a sovereign class, amb and sov are nearly the same size actually. nothing other then the nebula is in the galaxy's weight class.
-70% of its interior was modular, so it could be full of science labs, elementary schools, luxury quarters, arboretums, holodecks, huge cargo bays, additional torpedo storage, auxiliary fusion reactors tied directly to weapons and shields, expanded hanger capacity, troop barracks, secondary systems to compensate wile primary systems are damaged due to battle damage, left empty simply for battle soak for internal systems, basically anything you could imagine within the star trek universe. this definitively means that it was NOT built for peace time, but bilt to be ether a science ship or a warship, or anything in between depending on how that 70% is used.
-the configuration of the enterprise D was the embodiment of federation ideals, a gilded flagship. it was primarily set up as a ship of long term exploration with every amenity that could help stave off crew fatigue associated with long term missions, including bringing civilian family members aboard. this was done in a moment of hubris, the federation had recently wrapped up a tholian and tzenkethy war, and the newly launched nebula class were putting an end to decades of war with the cardasians. at that moment, the federation was largely unopposed, its easy to see why the enterprise was set up and why it got such a diplomat for a captain.
-the enterprise D never even went on a deep space mission, it was posturing instead, mostly patrolled up and down the romulan neutral zone for years. it then moved down to the cardasian demilitarized zone to do the same after the cardasians finally agreed to peace after several brand new nebula class showed up and kicked all sorts of TRIBBLE, something all the excelsiors and other old designs failed to do, causing the war to last as long as it did. guess they wanted to break the ship in for a decade before sending it off into parts unknown. the age difference between the galaxy and the first contact ships is so minor im surprised its ever brought up. especially if your looking at them from 2409.
-the setup the enterprise D has negatively impacted the combat potential of the galaxy space frame. when jelleco was in command, he took many measures to sacrifice non tactical systems to boost the ships combat performance. still, short of a 1v1 with a d'deridex, nothing from ether beta or alpha quadrant was a match for it.
- it had the 2 longest phaser arrays, and due to how arrays work, each segment of length has an additive effect to how powerful of a shot it can fire from it. the nebula has the same array, and in battle proved unstoppable to multiple cardasian ships ambushing it, even after the nebula's shields were remotely lowered.
-the 2 torpedo launchers the ship has can fire enormous bursts in the span of a second. up to about 20 at once preloaded before it would have to reload. from ships like the sovereign and intrepid, each of their launchers seems to cap at 3 or 4 preloaded, before it can reload and fire again
-the galaxy class, and presumably other ships, were constantly upgraded during their service life, and every 20 years they would be nearly gutted and have their systems replaced with what was cutting edge. built to be as modular as it was, this is proboly not to terribly difficult for them to do. nothing is 'the most advanced ship in the fleet' for very long
a lot of what makes the galaxy class great is shared with most other modern ships. im guessing what came after was as modular as it could be as well. its just that the galaxy is the largest ship of them all. all things being equal, the largest is going to have the best. no other class has arrays that even approach the size of the galaxy/nebula, none of the other fan favortie classes have the per launcher burst capability the galaxy does. in several situations, you see them fireing as many torps as fast as they can, you can see the limitations. you almost never see a galaxy unleash its actual full arsenal at something, and every time it loses its because it got totally punked in 1 way or another. in those situations, no other ship would have done any better.
BUT, all this should not be a litmus test for how the ship is in game, its just fluff reasoning for why it should not suck. if other ships had to go through a canon litmus test like this, to prove the worth of its in game stats, they would all fall short to the galaxy. except for the odyssey, which is supposed to be the next generation galaxy. yet the model has shrimpy main arrays, a huge blunder actually, they should have connected them on the ship model. if the odyssey class was as cannon as the galaxy, it would not outgun a properly upgraded 2409 galaxy, based on the most basic workings of phaser arrays.
heres some galaxy class cliff notes, established in canon and by uncontradicted information in the tech manual. its going to contradict this notion antifans of the ship have that it was built to be the peace love boat.
-twice the volume of the ambassador class it replaced. also about twice the volume of a sovereign class, amb and sov are nearly the same size actually. nothing other then the nebula is in the galaxy's weight class.
-70% of its interior was modular, so it could be full of science labs, elementary schools, luxury quarters, arboretums, holodecks, huge cargo bays, additional torpedo storage, auxiliary fusion reactors tied directly to weapons and shields, expanded hanger capacity, troop barracks, secondary systems to compensate wile primary systems are damaged due to battle damage, left empty simply for battle soak for internal systems, basically anything you could imagine within the star trek universe. this definitively means that it was NOT built for peace time, but bilt to be ether a science ship or a warship, or anything in between depending on how that 70% is used.
-the configuration of the enterprise D was the embodiment of federation ideals, a gilded flagship. it was primarily set up as a ship of long term exploration with every amenity that could help stave off crew fatigue associated with long term missions, including bringing civilian family members aboard. this was done in a moment of hubris, the federation had recently wrapped up a tholian and tzenkethy war, and the newly launched nebula class were putting an end to decades of war with the cardasians. at that moment, the federation was largely unopposed, its easy to see why the enterprise was set up and why it got such a diplomat for a captain.
-the enterprise D never even went on a deep space mission, it was posturing instead, mostly patrolled up and down the romulan neutral zone for years. it then moved down to the cardasian demilitarized zone to do the same after the cardasians finally agreed to peace after several brand new nebula class showed up and kicked all sorts of TRIBBLE, something all the excelsiors and other old designs failed to do, causing the war to last as long as it did. guess they wanted to break the ship in for a decade before sending it off into parts unknown. the age difference between the galaxy and the first contact ships is so minor im surprised its ever brought up. especially if your looking at them from 2409.
-the setup the enterprise D has negatively impacted the combat potential of the galaxy space frame. when jelleco was in command, he took many measures to sacrifice non tactical systems to boost the ships combat performance. still, short of a 1v1 with a d'deridex, nothing from ether beta or alpha quadrant was a match for it.
- it had the 2 longest phaser arrays, and due to how arrays work, each segment of length has an additive effect to how powerful of a shot it can fire from it. the nebula has the same array, and in battle proved unstoppable to multiple cardasian ships ambushing it, even after the nebula's shields were remotely lowered.
-the 2 torpedo launchers the ship has can fire enormous bursts in the span of a second. up to about 20 at once preloaded before it would have to reload. from ships like the sovereign and intrepid, each of their launchers seems to cap at 3 or 4 preloaded, before it can reload and fire again
-the galaxy class, and presumably other ships, were constantly upgraded during their service life, and every 20 years they would be nearly gutted and have their systems replaced with what was cutting edge. built to be as modular as it was, this is proboly not to terribly difficult for them to do. nothing is 'the most advanced ship in the fleet' for very long
a lot of what makes the galaxy class great is shared with most other modern ships. im guessing what came after was as modular as it could be as well. its just that the galaxy is the largest ship of them all. all things being equal, the largest is going to have the best. no other class has arrays that even approach the size of the galaxy/nebula, none of the other fan favortie classes have the per launcher burst capability the galaxy does. in several situations, you see them fireing as many torps as fast as they can, you can see the limitations. you almost never see a galaxy unleash its actual full arsenal at something, and every time it loses its because it got totally punked in 1 way or another. in those situations, no other ship would have done any better.
BUT, all this should not be a litmus test for how the ship is in game, its just fluff reasoning for why it should not suck. if other ships had to go through a canon litmus test like this, to prove the worth of its in game stats, they would all fall short to the galaxy. except for the odyssey, which is supposed to be the next generation galaxy. yet the model has shrimpy main arrays, a huge blunder actually, they should have connected them on the ship model. if the odyssey class was as cannon as the galaxy, it would not outgun a properly upgraded 2409 galaxy, based on the most basic workings of phaser arrays.
Nothing could have said it better.
You sir are an absolute expert.
If the devs would have known even half as much, the Galaxy Class HAD to look VERY different from what we have in STO.
Just like the Federation intro of Birth of the Federation said: "... build not to start wars, but to end them."(or at least something like that)
I think that sums up Starfleet ships tactical usefulness.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Nothing could have said it better.
You sir are an absolute expert.
If the devs would have known even half as much, the Galaxy Class HAD to look VERY different from what we have in STO.
Just like the Federation intro of Birth of the Federation said: "... build not to start wars, but to end them."(or at least something like that)
I think that sums up Starfleet ships tactical usefulness.
"Always remember that expansion is achieved by diplomacy, not by the military. Starfleets mission is to preserve the peace. Our ships are not intended to start wars, but to end them. We attack only as a last resort."
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
heres some galaxy class cliff notes, established in canon and by uncontradicted information in the tech manual. its going to contradict this notion antifans of the ship have that it was built to be the peace love boat.
-twice the volume of the ambassador class it replaced. also about twice the volume of a sovereign class, amb and sov are nearly the same size actually. nothing other then the nebula is in the galaxy's weight class.
-70% of its interior was modular, so it could be full of science labs, elementary schools, luxury quarters, arboretums, holodecks, huge cargo bays, additional torpedo storage, auxiliary fusion reactors tied directly to weapons and shields, expanded hanger capacity, troop barracks, secondary systems to compensate wile primary systems are damaged due to battle damage, left empty simply for battle soak for internal systems, basically anything you could imagine within the star trek universe. this definitively means that it was NOT built for peace time, but bilt to be ether a science ship or a warship, or anything in between depending on how that 70% is used.
-the configuration of the enterprise D was the embodiment of federation ideals, a gilded flagship. it was primarily set up as a ship of long term exploration with every amenity that could help stave off crew fatigue associated with long term missions, including bringing civilian family members aboard. this was done in a moment of hubris, the federation had recently wrapped up a tholian and tzenkethy war, and the newly launched nebula class were putting an end to decades of war with the cardasians. at that moment, the federation was largely unopposed, its easy to see why the enterprise was set up and why it got such a diplomat for a captain.
-the enterprise D never even went on a deep space mission, it was posturing instead, mostly patrolled up and down the romulan neutral zone for years. it then moved down to the cardasian demilitarized zone to do the same after the cardasians finally agreed to peace after several brand new nebula class showed up and kicked all sorts of TRIBBLE, something all the excelsiors and other old designs failed to do, causing the war to last as long as it did. guess they wanted to break the ship in for a decade before sending it off into parts unknown. the age difference between the galaxy and the first contact ships is so minor im surprised its ever brought up. especially if your looking at them from 2409.
-the setup the enterprise D has negatively impacted the combat potential of the galaxy space frame. when jelleco was in command, he took many measures to sacrifice non tactical systems to boost the ships combat performance. still, short of a 1v1 with a d'deridex, nothing from ether beta or alpha quadrant was a match for it.
- it had the 2 longest phaser arrays, and due to how arrays work, each segment of length has an additive effect to how powerful of a shot it can fire from it. the nebula has the same array, and in battle proved unstoppable to multiple cardasian ships ambushing it, even after the nebula's shields were remotely lowered.
-the 2 torpedo launchers the ship has can fire enormous bursts in the span of a second. up to about 20 at once preloaded before it would have to reload. from ships like the sovereign and intrepid, each of their launchers seems to cap at 3 or 4 preloaded, before it can reload and fire again
-the galaxy class, and presumably other ships, were constantly upgraded during their service life, and every 20 years they would be nearly gutted and have their systems replaced with what was cutting edge. built to be as modular as it was, this is proboly not to terribly difficult for them to do. nothing is 'the most advanced ship in the fleet' for very long
a lot of what makes the galaxy class great is shared with most other modern ships. im guessing what came after was as modular as it could be as well. its just that the galaxy is the largest ship of them all. all things being equal, the largest is going to have the best. no other class has arrays that even approach the size of the galaxy/nebula, none of the other fan favortie classes have the per launcher burst capability the galaxy does. in several situations, you see them fireing as many torps as fast as they can, you can see the limitations. you almost never see a galaxy unleash its actual full arsenal at something, and every time it loses its because it got totally punked in 1 way or another. in those situations, no other ship would have done any better.
BUT, all this should not be a litmus test for how the ship is in game, its just fluff reasoning for why it should not suck. if other ships had to go through a canon litmus test like this, to prove the worth of its in game stats, they would all fall short to the galaxy. except for the odyssey, which is supposed to be the next generation galaxy. yet the model has shrimpy main arrays, a huge blunder actually, they should have connected them on the ship model. if the odyssey class was as cannon as the galaxy, it would not outgun a properly upgraded 2409 galaxy, based on the most basic workings of phaser arrays.
agree with most of your points. Disagree with the phaser thing and the duration of Cardassian war.
I believe he gen generation of Galaxys were geared to exploration and diplomacy. but since most of those are now destroyed the tried to address the issues with the ship. Venture was the first attempt and with the war going out they launch incomplete but battle ready Galaxys and they performed well and will likely slowly refited to Venture stats when war over. THe bulk of Starfleet ships are design for peace and war, how much they lean either way depends on era they are designed.
putting single cannons on a cruiser is not flying it like an escort, its not possible to fly a fed cruiser like an escort
I';m damn close to it with my Excelsior. However your the bloke in OPVP last night that said cruisers do "useless" damage, and then berated me and my Excelsior.
No point argueing a point with you, since you think you invented STO and know everything about it. Arrogant, much?
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
agree with most of your points. Disagree with the phaser thing and the duration of Cardassian war.
I believe he gen generation of Galaxys were geared to exploration and diplomacy. but since most of those are now destroyed the tried to address the issues with the ship. Venture was the first attempt and with the war going out they launch incomplete but battle ready Galaxys and they performed well and will likely slowly refited to Venture stats when war over. THe bulk of Starfleet ships are design for peace and war, how much they lean either way depends on era they are designed.
thats why they made them modular, because they didn't want to have a fleet of inflexible science vessels when suddenly they are at war with a dangerous foe. the venture class is just a galaxy, set up a possible way that received upgrades like every other surviving galaxy would have like normal.
your not really disagreeing with what i said about the phasers and cardasian war, your just in denial. you can read all about it here, all the facts presented in canon about it. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
the cardasians have a much smaller area of space with inferior ships, infrastructure and technology, yet they were able to prolong warfare on and off for 20 years with the federation? it seems to be due to the lack of modern ship classes launched between the ambassador and galaxy, they went to war with what they had, mainly excelsior class that were obsolete and hit an upgradability wall as soon as phaser arrays were invented. what changed in the mid to early 2360s? a small number of galaxy class were launched, and a much larger number of more utilitarian nebula class were launched. theres even an episode with a war vet going off half cocked in his nebula class against the cardasians. nothing i said about it is a stretch, and the performance of the galaxy class and nebula against cardasian ships is indisputable. these are not ships the federation would have had trouble with for 20 years if the galaxy and nebula weren't MASSIVELY better then the excelsior starfleet had to fight with before.
and phasers are explained in the tech manual. the short version is that the longer the array is, the more emitters it has. each emitter is a self contained phaser bank, holding its own charge and can fire by it self. in an array setup though, it can combine the power its storing with all the rest of the emitters on the array to combine into a single powerful shot. thats the moving glow effect you see on an array before it fires.
I';m damn close to it with my Excelsior. However your the bloke in OPVP last night that said cruisers do "useless" damage, and then berated me and my Excelsior.
No point argueing a point with you, since you think you invented STO and know everything about it. Arrogant, much?
im so sorry that i have 100s of hours of experience flying what your flying, and know it far better then you do. someone knowing better then you does not make them arrogant, it makes you defensive.
anyway, you misunderstood last night. dont take fed cruisers with beam arrays or single cannons sucking in the effectiveness department so personally. thats the problem with how shields, regeneration, distribution and proc heals work, in relation to damage dealt gradually. i was not insulting you.
i have a reputation with the old timers around here with tac cruisers just like yours. ive been building and using what your using now since season 2. sure, they have evolved quite a bit since then, but so have their hard counters, and at a much faster rate then what boosts their offense. that includes how powerful you can make them with 2 AtB builds, that i came up with first about a year ago, that are now so popular around here.
its like i said last night, non DHC/BO damage has you shooting at 4 facings worth of shield hitpoints before you can even start dealing hull damage. that takes a lot of time, and theres 100 things your opponent can do to counter your attack. if theres any cross healing, you are well and trully doing nothing to the enemy.spiky front loaded weapons can deal enough damage in a single weapon cycle to remove a shield facing and deal hull damage. all this between regeneration tics, and manual distribution tics. thats why i say that is effective damage, and say anything your excelsior can do is not effective damage.
the point of this thread is to get the galaxy changed so its stations and consoles are more useful. but then it will still be in the same boat as the rest of the fed cruisers, dealing ineffective damage. single cannons need to be changed so they fire the same as DHCs, and beam arrays need to fire 2 shots per cycle instead of 4. both these measures would increase the damage per volly, and give a ship a higher chance of breaching shields with a peeks and valleys style of damage dealing. its the only thing that can cut through defenses the way this game is set up.
I';m damn close to it with my Excelsior. However your the bloke in OPVP last night that said cruisers do "useless" damage, and then berated me and my Excelsior.
No point argueing a point with you, since you think you invented STO and know everything about it. Arrogant, much?
This here is the problem.
Most of the ******** about the Galaxy, in my experience, comes from the PvP and Elite STF crowd. This also applies to cruisers in general.
However, the ship (as it stands now) works in all other instances. Or, at the very least, squeaks by.
Back when I was a lowly captain, I ran a Galaxy as my primary. I did just fine in Fleet Actions and other instances. And my Galaxy-X could more than do it's part in normal STFs and endgame missions.
Personally, my only real gripe with any of the Galaxy variants is that the dreadnought cruiser should have been tactically oriented from the get-go.
I can understand that the two aforementioned types of players, who are fans of the Galaxy, wanting a Galaxy that is viable in those venues. But considering the points I mentioned above, I seriously doubt that a "better" Galaxy is on top of the devs list of things to do.
Instead of posters in this thread getting pissy with each other because of differing experiences, patience and productive discussion should be the order of the day.
....
its like i said last night, non DHC/BO damage has you shooting at 4 facings worth of shield hitpoints before you can even start dealing hull damage. that takes a lot of time, and theres 100 things your opponent can do to counter your attack. if theres any cross healing, you are well and trully doing nothing to the enemy.spiky front loaded weapons can deal enough damage in a single weapon cycle to remove a shield facing and deal hull damage. all this between regeneration tics, and manual distribution tics. thats why i say that is effective damage, and say anything your excelsior can do is not effective damage.
the point of this thread is to get the galaxy changed so its stations and consoles are more useful. but then it will still be in the same boat as the rest of the fed cruisers, dealing ineffective damage. single cannons need to be changed so they fire the same as DHCs, and beam arrays need to fire 2 shots per cycle instead of 4. both these measures would increase the damage per volly, and give a ship a higher chance of breaching shields with a peeks and valleys style of damage dealing. its the only thing that can cut through defenses the way this game is set up.
I'm just curious, since i am not a dedicated PvPer. Would reducing the fire rate and so raising the damage per shot really make such a difference, since the dps, even for a short time (lets say half a minute) would effectively stay the same?
Wouldn't the availlable shield healings (EptS/TSS) be able to repair it just as fast as they do right now?
Or do you think critical damage would be high enough to break through someones shield?
... and then buy you enough time to effectively damage enough Hull to destroy your enemy?
I have very little experience myself in this, so i don't know if a cruiser can turn fast enough nowadays to use its torpedoes?
Maybe i haven't understood the point of your suggestions, so please explain it to a complete PvP idiot, like me.
If it would work why only reduce Beam array to fire 2 shots per cycle and not just 1?
I'm sorry, some of my questions must look like coming from a complete newcomer, but i have never gave it a thought.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
thats why they made them modular, because they didn't want to have a fleet of inflexible science vessels when suddenly they are at war with a dangerous foe. the venture class is just a galaxy, set up a possible way that received upgrades like every other surviving galaxy would have like normal.
your not really disagreeing with what i said about the phasers and cardasian war, your just in denial. you can read all about it here, all the facts presented in canon about it. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
the cardasians have a much smaller area of space with inferior ships, infrastructure and technology, yet they were able to prolong warfare on and off for 20 years with the federation? it seems to be due to the lack of modern ship classes launched between the ambassador and galaxy, they went to war with what they had, mainly excelsior class that were obsolete and hit an upgradability wall as soon as phaser arrays were invented. what changed in the mid to early 2360s? a small number of galaxy class were launched, and a much larger number of more utilitarian nebula class were launched. theres even an episode with a war vet going off half cocked in his nebula class against the cardasians. nothing i said about it is a stretch, and the performance of the galaxy class and nebula against cardasian ships is indisputable. these are not ships the federation would have had trouble with for 20 years if the galaxy and nebula weren't MASSIVELY better then the excelsior starfleet had to fight with before.
and phasers are explained in the tech manual. the short version is that the longer the array is, the more emitters it has. each emitter is a self contained phaser bank, holding its own charge and can fire by it self. in an array setup though, it can combine the power its storing with all the rest of the emitters on the array to combine into a single powerful shot. thats the moving glow effect you see on an array before it fires.
im so sorry that i have 100s of hours of experience flying what your flying, and know it far better then you do. someone knowing better then you does not make them arrogant, it makes you defensive.
anyway, you misunderstood last night. dont take fed cruisers with beam arrays or single cannons sucking in the effectiveness department so personally. thats the problem with how shields, regeneration, distribution and proc heals work, in relation to damage dealt gradually. i was not insulting you.
i have a reputation with the old timers around here with tac cruisers just like yours. ive been building and using what your using now since season 2. sure, they have evolved quite a bit since then, but so have their hard counters, and at a much faster rate then what boosts their offense. that includes how powerful you can make them with 2 AtB builds, that i came up with first about a year ago, that are now so popular around here.
its like i said last night, non DHC/BO damage has you shooting at 4 facings worth of shield hitpoints before you can even start dealing hull damage. that takes a lot of time, and theres 100 things your opponent can do to counter your attack. if theres any cross healing, you are well and trully doing nothing to the enemy.spiky front loaded weapons can deal enough damage in a single weapon cycle to remove a shield facing and deal hull damage. all this between regeneration tics, and manual distribution tics. thats why i say that is effective damage, and say anything your excelsior can do is not effective damage.
the point of this thread is to get the galaxy changed so its stations and consoles are more useful. but then it will still be in the same boat as the rest of the fed cruisers, dealing ineffective damage. single cannons need to be changed so they fire the same as DHCs, and beam arrays need to fire 2 shots per cycle instead of 4. both these measures would increase the damage per volly, and give a ship a higher chance of breaching shields with a peeks and valleys style of damage dealing. its the only thing that can cut through defenses the way this game is set up.
Youi for get the S, it was not one really long war but a series of conflicts each perhaps only a few months to a year only, even going by the dates they give in that entry. Thus while powerful Nebula and Galaxy designed leaning peace. the the feds are smart enough to know conflict can happen thus they are still armed. again then explain why Intrepid's upper phaser array is divided instead of single?
I'm just curious, since i am not a dedicated PvPer. Would reducing the fire rate and so raising the damage per shot really make such a difference, since the dps, even for a short time (lets say half a minute) would effectively stay the same?
Wouldn't the availlable shield healings (EptS/TSS) be able to repair it just as fast as they do right now?
Or do you think critical damage would be high enough to break through someones shield?
... and then buy you enough time to effectively damage enough Hull to destroy your enemy?
I have very little experience myself in this, so i don't know if a cruiser can turn fast enough nowadays to use its torpedoes?
Maybe i haven't understood the point of your suggestions, so please explain it to a complete PvP idiot, like me.
If it would work why only reduce Beam array to fire 2 shots per cycle and not just 1?
I'm sorry, some of my questions must look like coming from a complete newcomer, but i have never gave it a thought.
pressure damage weapons deal damage at the same small incremental per second rate that shields regenerate, redistribute, proc heal, and just when you start to get ahead of the curve, EPtS and or TSS is cycled. this is what i call anti pressure measures, it cancels out pressure.
lets say a shield has 1000 hitpoints, and gets refilled and redistributed 500 HP over 10 second. lets say you pressure damage is 70 per second and 700 over 10 seconds, sure you will slowly get ahead of the healing, till an active heal, or a cross heal gets given out. ether way, your never going to see the guys hull
now, lets say you deal 250 damage 1 second, and none for 2.5 seconds, then 250 again. your opponents shield facing has large chunks cut out of it, and before they can fully restore it, you hit them that hard again. this is damage dealt out of rhythm with the over time restoration and balancing of shield healing. none of the spike shield heals are very large, the regeneration and ES and TSS, the big heals, are all over time. you want your damage to not be over time. its basically like digging a hole strait down, and the dirt around you keeps rolling back in as you dig.
the healing even escorts can have now, in combination with avoidance, makes it so even spiky DHCs can be dealt with like its pressure damage. it does not take big enough chunks out of shields to to go out of rhythm with shields heals. and if it does get to hull, doesn't damage it faster then it can be repaired. thats why you need something like BO or a torp to slip in too, for a closer. for tens of thousands of damage in a single application, that cant be delt with in the same rhythm that it is applied.
im so sorry that i have 100s of hours of experience flying what your flying, and know it far better then you do. someone knowing better then you does not make them arrogant, it makes you defensive.
anyway, you misunderstood last night. dont take fed cruisers with beam arrays or single cannons sucking in the effectiveness department so personally. thats the problem with how shields, regeneration, distribution and proc heals work, in relation to damage dealt gradually. i was not insulting you.
i have a reputation with the old timers around here with tac cruisers just like yours. ive been building and using what your using now since season 2. sure, they have evolved quite a bit since then, but so have their hard counters, and at a much faster rate then what boosts their offense. that includes how powerful you can make them with 2 AtB builds, that i came up with first about a year ago, that are now so popular around here.
its like i said last night, non DHC/BO damage has you shooting at 4 facings worth of shield hitpoints before you can even start dealing hull damage. that takes a lot of time, and theres 100 things your opponent can do to counter your attack. if theres any cross healing, you are well and trully doing nothing to the enemy.spiky front loaded weapons can deal enough damage in a single weapon cycle to remove a shield facing and deal hull damage. all this between regeneration tics, and manual distribution tics. thats why i say that is effective damage, and say anything your excelsior can do is not effective damage.
the point of this thread is to get the galaxy changed so its stations and consoles are more useful. but then it will still be in the same boat as the rest of the fed cruisers, dealing ineffective damage. single cannons need to be changed so they fire the same as DHCs, and beam arrays need to fire 2 shots per cycle instead of 4. both these measures would increase the damage per volly, and give a ship a higher chance of breaching shields with a peeks and valleys style of damage dealing. its the only thing that can cut through defenses the way this game is set up.
completely agree, single cannon are just a joke, really, you can't kill a competent player with it.
19 turn rate and 4 DHC on my gal x, here i can deal a little bit of pressure.
even if sometime it seem that you don't^^
after a fight in kerrat the other day i found that cannon power and buffing procedure were too slow to react ( further compounded by the ship itself ) and i then change my build back to a beam build.
even if it is now a auxtobat beam build, that i have acc3 weapons, accurate trait ( since lor ) and the tholians console, it just took me 1 stf to remember why i went on a cannon build in the first place.
so even if beam and to an extend single cannon can make life easier on some situation, i go back to my new ( since lor rcs console change ) old cannon build:)
there is no way out of this if you want to deal damage effectivly in pvp, until they do somethings with beam, if ever
now, lets say you deal 250 damage 1 second, and none for 2.5 seconds, then 250 again. your opponents shield facing has large chunks cut out of it, and before they can fully restore it, you hit them that hard again. this is damage dealt out of rhythm with the over time restoration and balancing of shield healing. none of the spike shield heals are very large, the regeneration and ES and TSS, the big heals, are all over time. you want your damage to not be over time. its basically like digging a hole strait down, and the dirt around you keeps rolling back in as you dig.
Now thats a picture i can start with.:) (i hope that's the right expression)
the healing even escorts can have now, in combination with avoidance, makes it so even spiky DHCs can be dealt with like its pressure damage. it does not take big enough chunks out of shields to to go out of rhythm with shields heals. and if it does get to hull, doesn't damage it faster then it can be repaired. thats why you need something like BO or a torp to slip in too, for a closer. for tens of thousands of damage in a single application, that cant be delt with in the same rhythm that it is applied.
To play the devil's advocate, is there any real reason to outfit a Cruiser, especially a Cruiser like the Galaxy Claas with even more than just 1 forward and 1 backward Beam array?
Since their pressure damage isn't heavy enough to make any difference in the first place. So wouldn't it be better to use other weapons like the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher (basicly a fire and forget Weapon) and Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array (+ Zero-Point Energy Conduit console to get the Plasma Hyperflux power) for example?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
But this isn't a thread for advice. This is a thread of people who want to fly a ship but feel they can't because it doesn't do enough damage. I have been in plenty of STFs and ESTFs with Galaxies and they pulled their weight.
As I said before I have a level 50 running around in a connie. It's awesome to see those blue phasers hit a borg sphere. My fleet can't wait for me to run STFs in it. It's been the most fun I have had in this game.
This is supposed to be fun. It's a game. Don't let the game or min-max'ers tell you how to play. Fly your Galaxy and be proud of it.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It is not an insult, just an observation. The most powerful armed forces currently in history resides in the U.S.A. and as a country we are only slightly hesitant to use that force.
And yes I said we. US Air Force veteran, and I see no insult.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
the problem is that we paid 2500z for this ship and that it is even not as potentially efficient as a "free" star cruiser.
some people go into estf with a connie, good for them if they like it, but i think they would take it rather bad if we ask them to paid 2500z for these stats and show it as a tier 5 ship and rightfully so.
this example is exaggerated, but the principle remains correct for the galaxy
absolutly not, this is a game, not the show, all ship should be on part with eatch other in there respective role.
that not mean that the galaxy should be more powerfull than an odyssey or exelsior, but as efficient as.
in the end the question that we should ask is why it is always the same that get what they were told they would get, and alway the same who should just be happy with what they got, even if that not what they were told they would have.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Seriously, i was talking about the paranoia which spread out in the late 90 and beginning 21 century. WWII has nothing to do with this.
In my eyes one of the strenghts of Star Trek was its positive view of a possible future humanity, which was almost completely lost when DS9 started the Dominion War.
Since then one can see a continuing trend towards a more militaristic Star Trek disconnecting more and more from its basic principles and making Star Trek more and generic and exchangeable with other Sci fi universes.
(btw, compared with other space War series/Movies Star Trek isn't so great at all IMO.)
Thats exactly my point, just because it is more expensive or more complex to refit the same ship over and over again, doesn't mean that the same ship (if overhauled) would perform worse compared to a specialized ship.
It was broken or better said bad design from the beginning and they made the Galaxy Class "suffer" most from this bad made concept.
Yeah, i'm afraid you are right.
Realisticly, our only chance to get what we want is to hope they will change the rather suboptimal engineering BOFF power range, espically the rank I ones.
Agreed, STO has moved already so far away from being considered a canon we shouldn't care about it anymore.
I find it just annoying and just barefaced that they made clearly inferior ships more powerful than the Galaxy Class.
Don't get me wrong i wasn't a big Galaxy Class fan in the beginning of STO, but the more it gets ignored the more i think it's been treated unfair, especially if you consider its "historical" value. It was the ship that led Star Trek into a new era. Previously it was just a Kirk and Spock TV show, but with TNG and the following series the universe became huge. And it was the ship many of us have grown up with or have become Star Trek fans. Now Cryptics devs made it the most boring ship in STO, great...:rolleyes:
I am in no way a Min/Max type of player, but i can see when a ship isn't as strong/useful as other ships.
I hope you are just doing STFs with your fleetmates, but if you going into a ESTF without people knowing you it can become quite messy IMO.
My point is, of course you can fly any ship you want, but the Galaxy -R is just bad made for a T5 ship.
The Constitution isn't a T5 ship so you can't expect it to compare it with a Galaxy Class.
(btw. it's already har enough to see a Excelsior outperform a Galaxy Class, just because one dev likes that ship, but seeing a Constitution being on par with a Galaxy Class would make me leave the game at once.)
Thanks, and let me assure you it wasn't meant as an insult at all, just as you said.
But if some people WANT to missunderstand me, i can't stop them from doing so.
As much as i know the Galaxy Class is the only ship in STO with such a BOFF Layout, i'm curious how the devs expected us to use this BOFF layout in the first place.
I mean didn't they notice that you can only have a certain amount of useable Rank I BOFF powers without having them get in the way with each other.
Unlike Science and Tactical there are just to few possible practical options.
It's not only that, in my opinion Engineering has just too few offensive powers compared to Science for example, making crusiers too passive IMO.
I think they need to rework at least some BOFF powers, especially EptW and Aceton Beam (which is really completely useless IMO)
Here some Questions that come to my mind:
For the Galaxy this would mean it could use ET at the 3. Ensign without having to
sacrifice the ship when not using TT in combat. Would it be too powerful on the other
hand?
What if AtS wouldn't share their cooldown with AtB anymore?
What if AtB Rank I would startt at ensign, instead ot Lieutenant?
What if Aceton beam would be reworked into something like a Beam Boardside Power?
(would anyone actually miss Aceton Beam?)
Don't missunderstand me here, i am not suggesting all these options, i am rather curious what you guys think about it.
I would pay 50$ for the 3 pack 2 months in advance if the devs would release this!! I am a HUGE fan of cruisers simply because i tweak my setups so i can ATTEMPT to fly them like escorts.. dont always succeed,, but its the attempt that makes things fun!!!
As i dont have time to scan through 100+ pages to see if the devs have responded to this thread im going to assume they havent. I have, however, heard some rumbleings recently that the Galaxy X refit is still in the works... ive heard this for over a year.. so im NOT holding my breath,, however with the list of ships at least SEEMINGLY growing smaller,,, the possibility of our hopes comming to fruition seems at least fractional better.
In the mean time i will enjoy flying the Galaxy such as it is,, i will enjoy watching the newest shinniest escorts DIE multiple times in STF's while i spam the space bar 9000 times and keep my shields and weapons power at 120% for ALMOST the entire mission with little to no effort... while doing,,, moderately good dps... and,, every so often,, tweaking my setup to squeeze that little bit more out of the old girl...
Just my two Zen worth of input...
Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon
Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
The Devils Henchman
doesn't mean it wasn't a heartbreaker to do tho.. wanted to run the ship every1 hates. just look so damn stupid withboarding party ugh I couldn't stand it!
something cool make me skip boarding party yeah i'll dig the galaxy..
cause sometimes its party time!
the galaxy wasn't replaced by anything in all of canon. you cant replace your largest and most capable ships with smaller inferior ships. the intrepid and sovereign fill niches underneath the galaxy. its not the galaxy class that was damaging subspace, literally everything was. but, that was a plot point they decided they regretted creating, so they basically said they came up with a workaround so it doesn't damage subspace anymore, so the heroes dont have to putt around. the galaxy being 100 meters wider then other ships is not going to make that big a deal, plus, the galaxy is basically shaped like a collection of wings, its extreamly aerodynamic, we are assuming that maters in space im guessing.
the galaxy X is a joke. the underslung phaser is a joke, the long arrays the ship already had are the most powerful ship based weapons in the fleet already with a fireing arc of everything the array had line of sight with. its a better weapon in every way then the lance, any tech that could make the lance more powerful could by applied to the array as well, they are both powered by the same thing. its redundant and stupid, same goes for an extra nacelle. Q imagined up a riced out hot rod that all.
q was taking notes from the Fed's future he already is aware of, so it's plausible enough for a 3 pack.
cause sometimes its party time!
This is actually something many have wondered for a long time.
I think it all lies with design decisions made a long time ago. For reasons unknown to us they decided that some powers that are clearly engineering based and not science based should be classed as science boff powers. Polarize Hull and Tractor Beam would fit easily as engineering powers, but they are inexplicably grouped with sci powers. That these two powers are misplaced or were moved late in the design of the game is obvious when one looks at how overcrowded the low level sci abilities are when compared to tac and engineering.
No need to become hostile here, this doesn't help in any way.
No one forced YOU to answer, i was just throwing in some possibilities.
Very true, The Galaxy -X perfectly fits into one of Qs weird jokes, nothing more.
Also if you look at it from a aerodynamic point of view, i think the Galaxy has a much more aerodynamic shape than the Sovereign, especially when you zoom in very close you can see some steps and edges, the Galaxy Claas doesn't have.
The shape argument isn't valid in the first place, since the Galaxy Class warp field can be shaped into very different forms. (TNG 1x06: Where No One Has Gone Before).
So again, (in universe) there was absolutely no need to replace the Galaxy with the Sovereign. The sovereigns shape must have something to do with the more tactical focussed nature of the ship. Maybe just to give the ship a smaller outline when doing a frontal attack. I think it's more like you said, the Sovereign and Intrepid are more specialized shipa, but not as versatile than the Galaxy Class.
I think these are excellent examples of missplaced BOFF powers in STO.
But now there is little to do against that, imagine the riot if the devs would make Tractor Beam an Engineering power, lol.
you don't need a luxury SUV to take the kids to school.
If we take your stance on things we can easily say that the Galaxy was over designed to do a lot of things that ultimately are better handled by more specialized ships. Assuming for a moment that the Galaxy was indeed designed as some sort of space battleship, we must also remember it was also designed as a space city, complete with space grade schools, space families, and space pets. The Galaxy design was a mishmash and a mess. Better to retire it and move on to fresh new designs not made by a committe composed of beings from the "friendship and peace at all costs" party with a token starfleet ensign thrown in political correctness.
Edit: I get it that a lot of that was done to allow for different plots to occur on the ship, but it always felt odd. Its still a ship, not a mobile space station.
You shouldn't forget that the big D was mostly there to represent the principles of the Federation (which is peace, not kill everything in sight, as some want it to be).
The new generation of Galaxy Class ships (Dominion War) surel didn't went into Battle with their Families on board. I think it's save to assume that Starfleet abandoned the concept of taking Families to the unexplored Frontier after the Dominion War.
So with no Families on Board and thus having much more space, i think a post DW Galaxy Class would perform way better than the Diplomatic and representative Enterprise -D. Plus let's not forget the technological progress.
When designing the Galaxy Class, Starfleet engineers have included everything they learned from the Excelsior and Ambassador, so the Galaxy Class should be much better prepared to make use of new technology, like better Phaser arrays, stronger shielding and of course more advanced Warp cores. The Galaxy Class ist still the biggest (canon) starfleet ship ever build, so it should be easy to keep it up to date as technology progresses.
Off topic:
I have no idea why so many people oppose to the idea of reworking the Galaxy Class or even refuse to acknowledge that this ship was far more than just a living room in space. Just because it didn't look like a Battlestar?
I mean i deeply hate all escorts and especially the Defiant in STO, but i don't see any reason to deny escort jockeys their favorite ships.
There are so many other ships in STO to fly, if someone doesn't like the Galaxy i'm perfectly ok with that, but to agressively fight the idea of making it as strong/versatile as it should have been from the beginning just goes beyond me.
You missed the point again, the "Love Boat" reputation wasn't earned because it didn't look "military badass", it was because of the actions of its crew and the civilian/ luxury aspects it portrayed. The pajama uniforms the first few seasons surely didn't help either. With those aspects it could have had a Wave Motion Gun, Reflex Cannons bolted out the wazoo of the outside and it still wouldnt have helped.
As far as its appearance goes, you are entitled to your opinion and tastes, as I am to mine.
heres some galaxy class cliff notes, established in canon and by uncontradicted information in the tech manual. its going to contradict this notion antifans of the ship have that it was built to be the peace love boat.
-twice the volume of the ambassador class it replaced. also about twice the volume of a sovereign class, amb and sov are nearly the same size actually. nothing other then the nebula is in the galaxy's weight class.
-70% of its interior was modular, so it could be full of science labs, elementary schools, luxury quarters, arboretums, holodecks, huge cargo bays, additional torpedo storage, auxiliary fusion reactors tied directly to weapons and shields, expanded hanger capacity, troop barracks, secondary systems to compensate wile primary systems are damaged due to battle damage, left empty simply for battle soak for internal systems, basically anything you could imagine within the star trek universe. this definitively means that it was NOT built for peace time, but bilt to be ether a science ship or a warship, or anything in between depending on how that 70% is used.
-the configuration of the enterprise D was the embodiment of federation ideals, a gilded flagship. it was primarily set up as a ship of long term exploration with every amenity that could help stave off crew fatigue associated with long term missions, including bringing civilian family members aboard. this was done in a moment of hubris, the federation had recently wrapped up a tholian and tzenkethy war, and the newly launched nebula class were putting an end to decades of war with the cardasians. at that moment, the federation was largely unopposed, its easy to see why the enterprise was set up and why it got such a diplomat for a captain.
-the enterprise D never even went on a deep space mission, it was posturing instead, mostly patrolled up and down the romulan neutral zone for years. it then moved down to the cardasian demilitarized zone to do the same after the cardasians finally agreed to peace after several brand new nebula class showed up and kicked all sorts of TRIBBLE, something all the excelsiors and other old designs failed to do, causing the war to last as long as it did. guess they wanted to break the ship in for a decade before sending it off into parts unknown. the age difference between the galaxy and the first contact ships is so minor im surprised its ever brought up. especially if your looking at them from 2409.
-the setup the enterprise D has negatively impacted the combat potential of the galaxy space frame. when jelleco was in command, he took many measures to sacrifice non tactical systems to boost the ships combat performance. still, short of a 1v1 with a d'deridex, nothing from ether beta or alpha quadrant was a match for it.
- it had the 2 longest phaser arrays, and due to how arrays work, each segment of length has an additive effect to how powerful of a shot it can fire from it. the nebula has the same array, and in battle proved unstoppable to multiple cardasian ships ambushing it, even after the nebula's shields were remotely lowered.
-the 2 torpedo launchers the ship has can fire enormous bursts in the span of a second. up to about 20 at once preloaded before it would have to reload. from ships like the sovereign and intrepid, each of their launchers seems to cap at 3 or 4 preloaded, before it can reload and fire again
-the galaxy class, and presumably other ships, were constantly upgraded during their service life, and every 20 years they would be nearly gutted and have their systems replaced with what was cutting edge. built to be as modular as it was, this is proboly not to terribly difficult for them to do. nothing is 'the most advanced ship in the fleet' for very long
a lot of what makes the galaxy class great is shared with most other modern ships. im guessing what came after was as modular as it could be as well. its just that the galaxy is the largest ship of them all. all things being equal, the largest is going to have the best. no other class has arrays that even approach the size of the galaxy/nebula, none of the other fan favortie classes have the per launcher burst capability the galaxy does. in several situations, you see them fireing as many torps as fast as they can, you can see the limitations. you almost never see a galaxy unleash its actual full arsenal at something, and every time it loses its because it got totally punked in 1 way or another. in those situations, no other ship would have done any better.
BUT, all this should not be a litmus test for how the ship is in game, its just fluff reasoning for why it should not suck. if other ships had to go through a canon litmus test like this, to prove the worth of its in game stats, they would all fall short to the galaxy. except for the odyssey, which is supposed to be the next generation galaxy. yet the model has shrimpy main arrays, a huge blunder actually, they should have connected them on the ship model. if the odyssey class was as cannon as the galaxy, it would not outgun a properly upgraded 2409 galaxy, based on the most basic workings of phaser arrays.
You sir are an absolute expert.
If the devs would have known even half as much, the Galaxy Class HAD to look VERY different from what we have in STO.
Just like the Federation intro of Birth of the Federation said:
"... build not to start wars, but to end them." (or at least something like that)
I think that sums up Starfleet ships tactical usefulness.
"Always remember that expansion is achieved by diplomacy, not by the military. Starfleets mission is to preserve the peace. Our ships are not intended to start wars, but to end them. We attack only as a last resort."
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agree with most of your points. Disagree with the phaser thing and the duration of Cardassian war.
I believe he gen generation of Galaxys were geared to exploration and diplomacy. but since most of those are now destroyed the tried to address the issues with the ship. Venture was the first attempt and with the war going out they launch incomplete but battle ready Galaxys and they performed well and will likely slowly refited to Venture stats when war over. THe bulk of Starfleet ships are design for peace and war, how much they lean either way depends on era they are designed.
I';m damn close to it with my Excelsior. However your the bloke in OPVP last night that said cruisers do "useless" damage, and then berated me and my Excelsior.
No point argueing a point with you, since you think you invented STO and know everything about it. Arrogant, much?
thats why they made them modular, because they didn't want to have a fleet of inflexible science vessels when suddenly they are at war with a dangerous foe. the venture class is just a galaxy, set up a possible way that received upgrades like every other surviving galaxy would have like normal.
your not really disagreeing with what i said about the phasers and cardasian war, your just in denial. you can read all about it here, all the facts presented in canon about it. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
the cardasians have a much smaller area of space with inferior ships, infrastructure and technology, yet they were able to prolong warfare on and off for 20 years with the federation? it seems to be due to the lack of modern ship classes launched between the ambassador and galaxy, they went to war with what they had, mainly excelsior class that were obsolete and hit an upgradability wall as soon as phaser arrays were invented. what changed in the mid to early 2360s? a small number of galaxy class were launched, and a much larger number of more utilitarian nebula class were launched. theres even an episode with a war vet going off half cocked in his nebula class against the cardasians. nothing i said about it is a stretch, and the performance of the galaxy class and nebula against cardasian ships is indisputable. these are not ships the federation would have had trouble with for 20 years if the galaxy and nebula weren't MASSIVELY better then the excelsior starfleet had to fight with before.
and phasers are explained in the tech manual. the short version is that the longer the array is, the more emitters it has. each emitter is a self contained phaser bank, holding its own charge and can fire by it self. in an array setup though, it can combine the power its storing with all the rest of the emitters on the array to combine into a single powerful shot. thats the moving glow effect you see on an array before it fires.
im so sorry that i have 100s of hours of experience flying what your flying, and know it far better then you do. someone knowing better then you does not make them arrogant, it makes you defensive.
anyway, you misunderstood last night. dont take fed cruisers with beam arrays or single cannons sucking in the effectiveness department so personally. thats the problem with how shields, regeneration, distribution and proc heals work, in relation to damage dealt gradually. i was not insulting you.
i have a reputation with the old timers around here with tac cruisers just like yours. ive been building and using what your using now since season 2. sure, they have evolved quite a bit since then, but so have their hard counters, and at a much faster rate then what boosts their offense. that includes how powerful you can make them with 2 AtB builds, that i came up with first about a year ago, that are now so popular around here.
its like i said last night, non DHC/BO damage has you shooting at 4 facings worth of shield hitpoints before you can even start dealing hull damage. that takes a lot of time, and theres 100 things your opponent can do to counter your attack. if theres any cross healing, you are well and trully doing nothing to the enemy.spiky front loaded weapons can deal enough damage in a single weapon cycle to remove a shield facing and deal hull damage. all this between regeneration tics, and manual distribution tics. thats why i say that is effective damage, and say anything your excelsior can do is not effective damage.
the point of this thread is to get the galaxy changed so its stations and consoles are more useful. but then it will still be in the same boat as the rest of the fed cruisers, dealing ineffective damage. single cannons need to be changed so they fire the same as DHCs, and beam arrays need to fire 2 shots per cycle instead of 4. both these measures would increase the damage per volly, and give a ship a higher chance of breaching shields with a peeks and valleys style of damage dealing. its the only thing that can cut through defenses the way this game is set up.
This here is the problem.
Most of the ******** about the Galaxy, in my experience, comes from the PvP and Elite STF crowd. This also applies to cruisers in general.
However, the ship (as it stands now) works in all other instances. Or, at the very least, squeaks by.
Back when I was a lowly captain, I ran a Galaxy as my primary. I did just fine in Fleet Actions and other instances. And my Galaxy-X could more than do it's part in normal STFs and endgame missions.
Personally, my only real gripe with any of the Galaxy variants is that the dreadnought cruiser should have been tactically oriented from the get-go.
I can understand that the two aforementioned types of players, who are fans of the Galaxy, wanting a Galaxy that is viable in those venues. But considering the points I mentioned above, I seriously doubt that a "better" Galaxy is on top of the devs list of things to do.
Instead of posters in this thread getting pissy with each other because of differing experiences, patience and productive discussion should be the order of the day.
Wouldn't the availlable shield healings (EptS/TSS) be able to repair it just as fast as they do right now?
Or do you think critical damage would be high enough to break through someones shield?
... and then buy you enough time to effectively damage enough Hull to destroy your enemy?
I have very little experience myself in this, so i don't know if a cruiser can turn fast enough nowadays to use its torpedoes?
Maybe i haven't understood the point of your suggestions, so please explain it to a complete PvP idiot, like me.
If it would work why only reduce Beam array to fire 2 shots per cycle and not just 1?
I'm sorry, some of my questions must look like coming from a complete newcomer, but i have never gave it a thought.
Youi for get the S, it was not one really long war but a series of conflicts each perhaps only a few months to a year only, even going by the dates they give in that entry. Thus while powerful Nebula and Galaxy designed leaning peace. the the feds are smart enough to know conflict can happen thus they are still armed. again then explain why Intrepid's upper phaser array is divided instead of single?
pressure damage weapons deal damage at the same small incremental per second rate that shields regenerate, redistribute, proc heal, and just when you start to get ahead of the curve, EPtS and or TSS is cycled. this is what i call anti pressure measures, it cancels out pressure.
lets say a shield has 1000 hitpoints, and gets refilled and redistributed 500 HP over 10 second. lets say you pressure damage is 70 per second and 700 over 10 seconds, sure you will slowly get ahead of the healing, till an active heal, or a cross heal gets given out. ether way, your never going to see the guys hull
now, lets say you deal 250 damage 1 second, and none for 2.5 seconds, then 250 again. your opponents shield facing has large chunks cut out of it, and before they can fully restore it, you hit them that hard again. this is damage dealt out of rhythm with the over time restoration and balancing of shield healing. none of the spike shield heals are very large, the regeneration and ES and TSS, the big heals, are all over time. you want your damage to not be over time. its basically like digging a hole strait down, and the dirt around you keeps rolling back in as you dig.
the healing even escorts can have now, in combination with avoidance, makes it so even spiky DHCs can be dealt with like its pressure damage. it does not take big enough chunks out of shields to to go out of rhythm with shields heals. and if it does get to hull, doesn't damage it faster then it can be repaired. thats why you need something like BO or a torp to slip in too, for a closer. for tens of thousands of damage in a single application, that cant be delt with in the same rhythm that it is applied.
completely agree, single cannon are just a joke, really, you can't kill a competent player with it.
19 turn rate and 4 DHC on my gal x, here i can deal a little bit of pressure.
even if sometime it seem that you don't^^
after a fight in kerrat the other day i found that cannon power and buffing procedure were too slow to react ( further compounded by the ship itself ) and i then change my build back to a beam build.
even if it is now a auxtobat beam build, that i have acc3 weapons, accurate trait ( since lor ) and the tholians console, it just took me 1 stf to remember why i went on a cannon build in the first place.
so even if beam and to an extend single cannon can make life easier on some situation, i go back to my new ( since lor rcs console change ) old cannon build:)
there is no way out of this if you want to deal damage effectivly in pvp, until they do somethings with beam, if ever
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
(i hope that's the right expression)
To play the devil's advocate, is there any real reason to outfit a Cruiser, especially a Cruiser like the Galaxy Claas with even more than just 1 forward and 1 backward Beam array?
Since their pressure damage isn't heavy enough to make any difference in the first place. So wouldn't it be better to use other weapons like the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher (basicly a fire and forget Weapon) and Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array (+ Zero-Point Energy Conduit console to get the Plasma Hyperflux power) for example?