Why do people even bother posting threads asking for playability of ships to be improved? They all seem to end with everyone having a go at one another...
As I read this it was not an attempt to take anything away from anyone but to make a point about what is likely the biggest ship in the game turning as fast as something far lighter...
Why do people even bother posting threads asking for playability of ships to be improved? They all seem to end with everyone having a go at one another...
Welcome to Internet forums, where you are right and everyone else is wrong...
Why do people even bother posting threads asking for playability of ships to be improved? They all seem to end with everyone having a go at one another...
As I read this it was not an attempt to take anything away from anyone but to make a point about what is likely the biggest ship in the game turning as fast as something far lighter...
Unfortunately there is a large number of players who seem to think the game and star trek belongs to them. And these people go find a high horse and sit atop it and scream bloody murder if you even whisper somthing against their beliefs.
But...thats ok...because no one listens to them anyway.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought flies and turns like an Exploration cruiser despite being wayyyyy bigger than "twice the size". The Dreadnought is nimble as hell for a carrier class ship.
All Fed cruisers need a turn rate boost of 1. No exceptions.
It should look like this:
Cruiser: 10
Advanced Heavy Cruiser: 9
Heavy Cruiser: 9
Star Cruiser: 8
Assault Cruiser: 8
Exploration Cruiser: 7
oh please, fed cruisers turning 2 better does nothing to the kdf and takes nothing away from them. once they all have 10 or beter turn rate and can use DHCs then we can talk about the kdf losing something unique.
of course the bortas, being a fed cruiser clone more then anything, should get the same bump in turn
oh please, fed cruisers turning 2 better does nothing to the kdf and takes nothing away from them. once they all have 10 or beter turn rate and can use DHCs then we can talk about the kdf losing something unique.
of course the bortas, being a fed cruiser clone more then anything, should get the same bump in turn
I would agree with that.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
If you're going to call canon into account here, let me remind you that if we paid any attention to canon or ship movement rules, the entire fed fleet would move like escorts, the GalX included.
The Klingons.... well actually the klingons wouldn't really experience much of a change.
It doesn't have much to do with canon for me, if this game was cannon, only true Trekkies would play it. On that note, i'd play it cuz I could live in it and be awesome! It's more of stating that the dread is something different, iPhone 5 vs Galaxy s3. Both are phone, yet both are made differently.
Why do people even bother posting threads asking for playability of ships to be improved? They all seem to end with everyone having a go at one another...
As I read this it was not an attempt to take anything away from anyone but to make a point about what is likely the biggest ship in the game turning as fast as something far lighter...
Hm... But humans are aggressive and combatant by nature, so you could say the internet is the truest form of humanity.
oh please, fed cruisers turning 2 better does nothing to the kdf and takes nothing away from them. once they all have 10 or beter turn rate and can use DHCs then we can talk about the kdf losing something unique.
of course the bortas, being a fed cruiser clone more then anything, should get the same bump in turn
Let's see... +2 turn rate to all fed cruisers... Ok, let's go over your average end-game cruisers and compare them to their KDF variants.
SC/FSCR, AC/ACR/FACR: current turn = 7, with buff = 9
HCR/FHCR, Excel/FExcel (pukes quietly in a corner): current turn = 8, with buff = 10
Gal-R/FGal-R/Gal-x, Odyssey/allthebloodyvariants: current turn = 6, with buff = 8
So with that in mind, the highest turning cruiser you would have would be a base of 10. Now let's look at the KDF.
Negh'var/F-Negh'var: base turn = 9
MVor'cha/Vor'cha R/FVor'cha-R: base turn = 10
K't'inga/F-K't'inga: base turn = 11
Bortas/Bortasqu'/allthebloodyvariants: base turn = *BLEH*
So from what I can see, you'd bring fed cruisers to about equal with that buff. However something else to consider: inertia. Fed cruisers would still lose out on inertia ratings. Minutia say you, important says I. However KDF battlecruisers would still be able to cloak, use DHCs, and be awesome. And the equivalent ships (Vor'cha to AC/SC, Neg'vhar to Gal-R, K't'inga to Excel) are still inferior. See below:
Never gunna happen stick to beam arrays that way turn doesn't matter
Leave the true battling to the empire
Stick to hazard emitters and extend shields
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Not only +1 or +2, it should be +6. I don't care whether it is revision 1,2,3, or 4 of Galaxy class and I have to pay for it. Stick to the same design model with slight cosmetic change and it shall sell well. It is just me who wants a beam ship. It is a good opportunity to sell special beam array too. I play pve exclusively and don't care about pvp.
oh please, fed cruisers turning 2 better does nothing to the kdf and takes nothing away from them. once they all have 10 or beter turn rate and can use DHCs then we can talk about the kdf losing something unique.
of course the bortas, being a fed cruiser clone more then anything, should get the same bump in turn
Indeed. I also support your +2 turn rate proposal.
That's my point... this thread is nothing more than another attempt to take away any uniqueness of the KDF... FED's already took cloaks and carriers... now they want to eliminate the slight maneuverability bonus of the KDF battlecruisers too!
>took away cloaks
>Fed has cloak on two ships
Suuuuuure.
But okay, let's play it with your logic.
WAAAAAAH, KLINGONS ARE STEALING OUR UNIQUENESS, THEY HAVE SHIPS WITHOUT CLOAKING DEVICES WAAAAAAAH!
Let's see... +2 turn rate to all fed cruisers... Ok, let's go over your average end-game cruisers and compare them to their KDF variants.
SC/FSCR, AC/ACR/FACR: current turn = 7, with buff = 9
HCR/FHCR, Excel/FExcel (pukes quietly in a corner): current turn = 8, with buff = 10
Gal-R/FGal-R/Gal-x, Odyssey/allthebloodyvariants: current turn = 6, with buff = 8
So with that in mind, the highest turning cruiser you would have would be a base of 10. Now let's look at the KDF.
Negh'var/F-Negh'var: base turn = 9
MVor'cha/Vor'cha R/FVor'cha-R: base turn = 10
K't'inga/F-K't'inga: base turn = 11
Bortas/Bortasqu'/allthebloodyvariants: base turn = *BLEH*
So from what I can see, you'd bring fed cruisers to about equal with that buff. However something else to consider: inertia. Fed cruisers would still lose out on inertia ratings. Minutia say you, important says I. However KDF battlecruisers would still be able to cloak, use DHCs, and be awesome. And the equivalent ships (Vor'cha to AC/SC, Neg'vhar to Gal-R, K't'inga to Excel) are still inferior. See below:
So DDIS is right (again), and doing this would still leave KDF battlecruisers as superior, and not really harm the KDF dominance in combat ability.
even if i am for a +2 turn for fed cruiser, i do bielieve that kdf cruiser should get a +1 too because the gap between federation and kdf would be reduce too much.
i am not ok with the concept that 1 faction should have unjustify buff over an other just to make it appealing ( look at starcraft , 3 faction, there is not one better than an other, just different playstyle), however in this case it seem justify to me.
this is star trek, and federation cruiser aren't meant for war ( they are exeption, but that just what they are, exeption ), the kdf is.
so it seem perfectly normal to me that their ship get some boost in what is the purpose of this faction, make war.
the problem is that fed cruiser have been somehow "nerfed" too much concerning their turn rate and that the difference, until today, between fed cruiser and kdf cruiser is too pronounce and even when we don't compared to kdf cruiser, the fed turn rate simply suck.
the gap should be reduce but not too much, leaving just 1 base turn rate more for kdf is not a good idea in my opinion, even if their inertia is better.
the inertia of certain fed cruiser should be rework as well anyway...
i bielieve that a big revamp is neccesary, just giving +2 to all cruiser wouldn't solve some nonsense ( like a dread jem hadar turning as good as a galaxy class with an inertia 3 time better too)
but that may be too much too ask...
beams need a CRF/CSV like BOff ability choice between ensign and LTC.
as well as a revamp of thier drain mechanic.
So basically what you are suggesting is new Lt.-up boff abilities for beams.
A CRF like one that would essentially double the tare of beam fire?
A CSV like ability similar to FAW but only in a 90-ish degree arc of the main target.
Would that be correct? If so, it sounds good. The only concern I can think of would be energy drain, especially on a broadside. If they could cap the drain at 150% of standard firing beam arrays, that would be interesting. Can you expand on this?
On the other hand, what would stop them from designing a cannon ability like Beam Overload for cannons? One shot of a DHC, especially with Tactical buffs, might take the place of Tricobalt weapons for sure.
Gotta agree, I also noticed the dreadnought turns faster than the Vo'quv, even if 1 degree per second. I'm shocked that thing got a turn rate north of 3. There's nothing in canon (including the episode Valiant where an escort went up against it) that supports a turn rate like that.
Despite all that, basically there's two reasons this won't happen:
Cryptic and PWE have repeatedly demonstrated they don't give a damn about canon, which is why non-Dominion crews are flying these ships in the first place. The canon argument doesn't hold much weight in a game where a Starfleet Admiral can go on sanctioned Starfleet missions using a starship of Jem'Hadar, Cardassian, Breen, Ferengi, Tholian, or Future manufacture (and let's not even get started on the Mirror Universe ships) any of which bear a Starfleet commission. These people would put in Cylon Basestars if players would open lock boxes for it.
They want to sell lock boxes and Lobi -- this is likely their primary source of revenue now (note we're getting these roughly every quarter). Brandon was out yesterday in an pseudo-"community event" getting people to queue up for Fleet Actions where, you guessed it, there were Lock Boxes dropping. They're selling a ship and they want you to open the boxes at all costs. And I do mean ALL COSTS. To you, that is.
It makes sense that the turn rates would be as such, since with the Fed's cruisers the bulk of the mass is concentrated mid/front whereas with the "drearrier" the mass is concentrated mid/rear closer to the engines, thus the weight is more easily manipulated.
It would be an interesting concept if turn rate and inertia were dictated by how you customized the look of your ship.
But ultimately that would be alot of coding, and it would probably grow silly to see the majority of ships in compact themes, as there would be no benefit to having an extended size ship. Maybe if there were some sort of tanking bonus in exchange it could be a novel ideal.
After reading all this thread i'd just advise to cruiser captains to switch to an escort if they want to DPS stuff and turn like mad (why not?), or to find a random solo game if they think STO isn't meant to be played by teams.
Or to roll a tac if they don't like to play a support role because it's not "glorious enough" to help others instead of being the DPS hero, which is, i assume, the exclusive and only issue here. Plain and simple ego troubles. :P
After reading all this thread i'd just advise to cruiser captains to switch to an escort if they want to DPS stuff and turn like mad (why not?), or to find a random solo game if they think STO isn't meant to be played by teams.
Or to roll a tac if they don't like to play a support role because it's not "glorious enough" to help others instead of being the DPS hero, which is, i assume, the exclusive and only issue here. Plain and simple ego troubles. :P
It is kind of funny how few cruiser captains are willing to play support craft and beg for the DPC capability of escorts isn't it...
Tbh, I agree though. You want massive damage output, re-roll a tacscort. I can guarantee you will not drop things as fast as a tac in a fleet defiant/bug in ANYTHING else (anything being any other career/ship). There is a reason I advise all of my friends who join the game to roll a tac. They say "ooh, engi/sci looks cool!". I tell them plain and simple that this game is almost exclusively damage based (at least end-game PvE is) and they either laugh and go play another game, or reluctantly roll a tac, and thank me later (later being after they've had some real combat under their belts i.e. ESTFs).
Here's something plain and simple. Cruisers are support craft. They are designed to lay down cover fire and constant damage. And I don't care how weak your BAs are, you can still at least negate shield recharge of a target. Those SUPPORT CRAFT are also good for healing, and being a meat-wall. Now if this game had a taunt of some kind that worked in players (TC for NPCs, only a player version) that made it so tanks would be viable again in ALL aspects of the game. Here's the post: BLARG!!!!!
But as I have stated zillions of times, I still would propose the return of the 20% damage lost on beams in the BFAW disco nerf, and a slight accuracy bonus. Nothing more. That might make cruiser pilots feel like they're doing a little bit more. Oh wells.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
After reading all this thread i'd just advise to cruiser captains to switch to an escort if they want to DPS stuff and turn like mad (why not?), or to find a random solo game if they think STO isn't meant to be played by teams.
Or to roll a tac if they don't like to play a support role because it's not "glorious enough" to help others instead of being the DPS hero, which is, i assume, the exclusive and only issue here. Plain and simple ego troubles. :P
I guess, It's more about the fact that in PvE, you do not need support role, as its dps fest..so people feel useless, unless they do dmg. And if you regularly pvp and pve, and check the composition of your team, you will already see its 4/5 tacs, 4/5 escorts.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I would trade turn rate for more hull. The idea of space exploration in a pinata is an eternal fail. Let the KDF flail madly at a impulse driven FED anvil. How about 50% increase in hull instead of +2 turn rate?
I wonder if all those people who say cruisers should only be support ships know how blatantly self-serving they sound, and how obvious it is they don't play cruisers.
It is exclusive and elitist to say "You shouldn't be able to do what I do, you should exist only to serve me by taking threat or healing me." Especially while at the same time utterly devaluing tanking and support by the simple and obvious fact that you don't do it.
(I fly a Vesta right now, Recluse before that, and a Chimera before that.)
That's my point... this thread is nothing more than another attempt to take away any uniqueness of the KDF... FED's already took cloaks and carriers... now they want to eliminate the slight maneuverability bonus of the KDF battlecruisers too!
You realize this sounds a lot like the arguments against same-sex marriage, against interracial marriages, against women's suffrage, against outlawing segregation, against women's rights...
I guess, It's more about the fact that in PvE, you do not need support role, as its dps fest..so people feel useless, unless they do dmg. And if you regularly pvp and pve, and check the composition of your team, you will already see its 4/5 tacs, 4/5 escorts.
Because all the current PvE endgame queues are easy, and because supporting your team members in some fleet actions such as starbase 24 won't be rewarding at all. But in the newest instances, such as Hive onslaught, the tholian red alert, or even in a no win scenario, one good and competent healer in your team is a gift from the gods.
I just hope that season 8 will give us more opportunities to bring more support ships into the battle.
I wonder if all those people who say cruisers should only be support ships know how blatantly self-serving they sound, and how obvious it is they don't play cruisers.
It is exclusive and elitist to say "You shouldn't be able to do what I do, you should exist only to serve me by taking threat or healing me." Especially while at the same time utterly devaluing tanking and support by the simple and obvious fact that you don't do it.
(I fly a Vesta right now, Recluse before that, and a Chimera before that.)
While I agree with you, there should be limitations of each class to keep them unique. Even though there should be more potent cruisers, there should also be cruiser designs that should be only for support ships (for those who do want/enjoy a support heavy role).
You realize this sounds a lot like the arguments against same-sex marriage, against interracial marriages, against women's suffrage, against outlawing segregation, against women's rights...
I really don't see how you could take that much of a stretch on political terms from that statement. It sounds like you would be saying that historians and game designers would be discriminatory if they kept the "quantity vs. quality" issues between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces in stories and games. The guys is talking about unique core competencies that distinguish the KDF ships from the Fed's ships. KDF ships give up certain things to get their advantages. While they might not be as equitable as some of want, it adds a flavor that keeps up from having both factions fighting each other in exactly the same ships as their opponents.
Because all the current PvE endgame queues are easy, and because supporting your team members in some fleet actions such as starbase 24 won't be rewarding at all. But in the newest instances, such as Hive onslaught, the tholian red alert, or even in a no win scenario, one good and competent healer in your team is a gift from the gods.
I just hope that season 8 will give us more opportunities to bring more support ships into the battle.
It may be a gift from the gods, but much of the time its almost a death sentence for the healer/cruiser especially if the other players can't (or won't) protect the cruiser when the enemy decided to focus on the cruiser. The cruisers weapons bounce off of the escorts and shy of a miracle, the cruiser has no chance to evade. There's no real deterrent to attacking the cruiser of a group; they take more damage per shot, use up all of their heals and tend to not be able to fight off the attackers and when it is down it cant heal/support its friendlies. A team would be a fool not to victimize cruisers first.
Cruisers need some "real" from of a deterrent to enemy escorts.
While I agree with you, there should be limitations of each class to keep them unique. Even though there should be more potent cruisers, there should also be cruiser designs that should be only for support ships (for those who do want/enjoy a support heavy role).
Agreed. However the current damage discrepancy appears to be far too high. The difference between an average cruiser dealing 4k DPS and an average escort dealing 6k DPS in a quick 5 minute STF is 600,000 damage.
At the same time, the survival difference is not that great - it doesn't matter that you have 1000% more hull and shields if you only ever drop to 90% shields/hull and neither types of ships die.
I really don't see how you could take that much of a stretch on political terms from that statement. It sounds like you would be saying that historians and game designers would be discriminatory if they kept the "quantity vs. quality" issues between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces in stories and games. The guys is talking about unique core competencies that distinguish the KDF ships from the Fed's ships. KDF ships give up certain things to get their advantages. While they might not be as equitable as some of want, it adds a flavor that keeps up from having both factions fighting each other in exactly the same ships as their opponents.
You misunderstood. My point is the stance of "I have X, and you shouldn't have it in spite of that fact that it does not affect my possession of X in any way" bears striking familiarities to the anti-same-sex marriage arguments that it would somehow devalue their marriage because other people want to be married.
It is also NOT a "core competency", but simply an imbalance that exists. Whatever balance may exist is not defined by 1 turn rate. They still have cloaks, they still have universal BOff slots. It is an extremely minor difference to the KDF but a huge difference to quality of life for Fed cruiser pilots. The KDF fanatics have a hair-trigger prosecution complex against any possible improvements for Feds because the KDF lack content.
If the KDF had as much content as the Feds, nobody would rant about being robbed of their uniqueness if Fed bricks became slightly faster bricks.
The entire bigger = slower is total bogus in space anyway.
All that matters is the trust/mass ratio of the ship. If that is the same, the ship will move the same, no matter how big or small.
And lets face it, most cruisers are simple rather boring to fly, because they move so slow in comparison to escorts or even sci ships.
I think all turn rates need a balance pass, something like this:
Comments
As I read this it was not an attempt to take anything away from anyone but to make a point about what is likely the biggest ship in the game turning as fast as something far lighter...
Welcome to Internet forums, where you are right and everyone else is wrong...
Unfortunately there is a large number of players who seem to think the game and star trek belongs to them. And these people go find a high horse and sit atop it and scream bloody murder if you even whisper somthing against their beliefs.
But...thats ok...because no one listens to them anyway.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Not everyone else is wrong. As long as they agree with me, they can enjoy being right as well!
Can we add the atrox to this, please?
LOL. Don't worry they know who they are.:D And as far as I've seen you arent one of them:)
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
of course the bortas, being a fed cruiser clone more then anything, should get the same bump in turn
I would agree with that.
It doesn't have much to do with canon for me, if this game was cannon, only true Trekkies would play it. On that note, i'd play it cuz I could live in it and be awesome!
Hm... But humans are aggressive and combatant by nature, so you could say the internet is the truest form of humanity.
Yes, I am right, and yes, everyone is wrong, myself included. :P But a wonderful description nonetheless.
Let's see... +2 turn rate to all fed cruisers... Ok, let's go over your average end-game cruisers and compare them to their KDF variants.
SC/FSCR, AC/ACR/FACR: current turn = 7, with buff = 9
HCR/FHCR, Excel/FExcel (pukes quietly in a corner): current turn = 8, with buff = 10
Gal-R/FGal-R/Gal-x, Odyssey/allthebloodyvariants: current turn = 6, with buff = 8
So with that in mind, the highest turning cruiser you would have would be a base of 10. Now let's look at the KDF.
Negh'var/F-Negh'var: base turn = 9
MVor'cha/Vor'cha R/FVor'cha-R: base turn = 10
K't'inga/F-K't'inga: base turn = 11
Bortas/Bortasqu'/allthebloodyvariants: base turn = *BLEH*
So from what I can see, you'd bring fed cruisers to about equal with that buff. However something else to consider: inertia. Fed cruisers would still lose out on inertia ratings. Minutia say you, important says I. However KDF battlecruisers would still be able to cloak, use DHCs, and be awesome. And the equivalent ships (Vor'cha to AC/SC, Neg'vhar to Gal-R, K't'inga to Excel) are still inferior. See below:
Vor'cha-R: 10, AC/SC: 9
Negh'var: 9, Gal-R/Gal-X: 8
K't'inga: 11, Excel/HCR: 10
So DDIS is right (again), and doing this would still leave KDF battlecruisers as superior, and not really harm the KDF dominance in combat ability.
Leave the true battling to the empire
Stick to hazard emitters and extend shields
Indeed. I also support your +2 turn rate proposal.
>took away cloaks
>Fed has cloak on two ships
Suuuuuure.
But okay, let's play it with your logic.
WAAAAAAH, KLINGONS ARE STEALING OUR UNIQUENESS, THEY HAVE SHIPS WITHOUT CLOAKING DEVICES WAAAAAAAH!
even if i am for a +2 turn for fed cruiser, i do bielieve that kdf cruiser should get a +1 too because the gap between federation and kdf would be reduce too much.
i am not ok with the concept that 1 faction should have unjustify buff over an other just to make it appealing ( look at starcraft , 3 faction, there is not one better than an other, just different playstyle), however in this case it seem justify to me.
this is star trek, and federation cruiser aren't meant for war ( they are exeption, but that just what they are, exeption ), the kdf is.
so it seem perfectly normal to me that their ship get some boost in what is the purpose of this faction, make war.
the problem is that fed cruiser have been somehow "nerfed" too much concerning their turn rate and that the difference, until today, between fed cruiser and kdf cruiser is too pronounce and even when we don't compared to kdf cruiser, the fed turn rate simply suck.
the gap should be reduce but not too much, leaving just 1 base turn rate more for kdf is not a good idea in my opinion, even if their inertia is better.
the inertia of certain fed cruiser should be rework as well anyway...
i bielieve that a big revamp is neccesary, just giving +2 to all cruiser wouldn't solve some nonsense ( like a dread jem hadar turning as good as a galaxy class with an inertia 3 time better too)
but that may be too much too ask...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
So basically what you are suggesting is new Lt.-up boff abilities for beams.
A CRF like one that would essentially double the tare of beam fire?
A CSV like ability similar to FAW but only in a 90-ish degree arc of the main target.
Would that be correct? If so, it sounds good. The only concern I can think of would be energy drain, especially on a broadside. If they could cap the drain at 150% of standard firing beam arrays, that would be interesting. Can you expand on this?
On the other hand, what would stop them from designing a cannon ability like Beam Overload for cannons? One shot of a DHC, especially with Tactical buffs, might take the place of Tricobalt weapons for sure.
i wouldnt mind a cylon basestar...
It would be an interesting concept if turn rate and inertia were dictated by how you customized the look of your ship.
But ultimately that would be alot of coding, and it would probably grow silly to see the majority of ships in compact themes, as there would be no benefit to having an extended size ship. Maybe if there were some sort of tanking bonus in exchange it could be a novel ideal.
Or to roll a tac if they don't like to play a support role because it's not "glorious enough" to help others instead of being the DPS hero, which is, i assume, the exclusive and only issue here. Plain and simple ego troubles. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
It is kind of funny how few cruiser captains are willing to play support craft and beg for the DPC capability of escorts isn't it...
Tbh, I agree though. You want massive damage output, re-roll a tacscort. I can guarantee you will not drop things as fast as a tac in a fleet defiant/bug in ANYTHING else (anything being any other career/ship). There is a reason I advise all of my friends who join the game to roll a tac. They say "ooh, engi/sci looks cool!". I tell them plain and simple that this game is almost exclusively damage based (at least end-game PvE is) and they either laugh and go play another game, or reluctantly roll a tac, and thank me later (later being after they've had some real combat under their belts i.e. ESTFs).
Here's something plain and simple. Cruisers are support craft. They are designed to lay down cover fire and constant damage. And I don't care how weak your BAs are, you can still at least negate shield recharge of a target. Those SUPPORT CRAFT are also good for healing, and being a meat-wall. Now if this game had a taunt of some kind that worked in players (TC for NPCs, only a player version) that made it so tanks would be viable again in ALL aspects of the game. Here's the post: BLARG!!!!!
But as I have stated zillions of times, I still would propose the return of the 20% damage lost on beams in the BFAW disco nerf, and a slight accuracy bonus. Nothing more. That might make cruiser pilots feel like they're doing a little bit more. Oh wells.
I guess, It's more about the fact that in PvE, you do not need support role, as its dps fest..so people feel useless, unless they do dmg. And if you regularly pvp and pve, and check the composition of your team, you will already see its 4/5 tacs, 4/5 escorts.
It is exclusive and elitist to say "You shouldn't be able to do what I do, you should exist only to serve me by taking threat or healing me." Especially while at the same time utterly devaluing tanking and support by the simple and obvious fact that you don't do it.
(I fly a Vesta right now, Recluse before that, and a Chimera before that.)
You realize this sounds a lot like the arguments against same-sex marriage, against interracial marriages, against women's suffrage, against outlawing segregation, against women's rights...
Because all the current PvE endgame queues are easy, and because supporting your team members in some fleet actions such as starbase 24 won't be rewarding at all. But in the newest instances, such as Hive onslaught, the tholian red alert, or even in a no win scenario, one good and competent healer in your team is a gift from the gods.
I just hope that season 8 will give us more opportunities to bring more support ships into the battle.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
While I agree with you, there should be limitations of each class to keep them unique. Even though there should be more potent cruisers, there should also be cruiser designs that should be only for support ships (for those who do want/enjoy a support heavy role).
I really don't see how you could take that much of a stretch on political terms from that statement. It sounds like you would be saying that historians and game designers would be discriminatory if they kept the "quantity vs. quality" issues between NATO and Warsaw Pact forces in stories and games. The guys is talking about unique core competencies that distinguish the KDF ships from the Fed's ships. KDF ships give up certain things to get their advantages. While they might not be as equitable as some of want, it adds a flavor that keeps up from having both factions fighting each other in exactly the same ships as their opponents.
It may be a gift from the gods, but much of the time its almost a death sentence for the healer/cruiser especially if the other players can't (or won't) protect the cruiser when the enemy decided to focus on the cruiser. The cruisers weapons bounce off of the escorts and shy of a miracle, the cruiser has no chance to evade. There's no real deterrent to attacking the cruiser of a group; they take more damage per shot, use up all of their heals and tend to not be able to fight off the attackers and when it is down it cant heal/support its friendlies. A team would be a fool not to victimize cruisers first.
Cruisers need some "real" from of a deterrent to enemy escorts.
At the same time, the survival difference is not that great - it doesn't matter that you have 1000% more hull and shields if you only ever drop to 90% shields/hull and neither types of ships die.
You misunderstood. My point is the stance of "I have X, and you shouldn't have it in spite of that fact that it does not affect my possession of X in any way" bears striking familiarities to the anti-same-sex marriage arguments that it would somehow devalue their marriage because other people want to be married.
It is also NOT a "core competency", but simply an imbalance that exists. Whatever balance may exist is not defined by 1 turn rate. They still have cloaks, they still have universal BOff slots. It is an extremely minor difference to the KDF but a huge difference to quality of life for Fed cruiser pilots. The KDF fanatics have a hair-trigger prosecution complex against any possible improvements for Feds because the KDF lack content.
If the KDF had as much content as the Feds, nobody would rant about being robbed of their uniqueness if Fed bricks became slightly faster bricks.
All that matters is the trust/mass ratio of the ship. If that is the same, the ship will move the same, no matter how big or small.
And lets face it, most cruisers are simple rather boring to fly, because they move so slow in comparison to escorts or even sci ships.
I think all turn rates need a balance pass, something like this:
carrier +2
fed cruiser +2
kdf battlecruiser +1
destroyer +-0
sci ships +-0
escorts/raider <15 +-0
escorts/raider >15 -1
escorts/raider >20 -2
This is even out the field somewhat, right now escorts have all the advantages in movement, plus the biggest guns and near cruiser level tanking.
And while you are at it, increase beam range by 2km.