And here we get the the crux of your "argument." You are bitter there isn't more KDF stuff. I agree with you there but reflexivie bitterness and an "I'm not getting a fair deal so TRIBBLE everyone else" attitude is profoundly unhelpful--both to your own cause or the people you share this community with.
Not bitter, it just really irritates me when people say "I want that", but instead of getting it in the "correct" way want the game's rules (not to mention the actual canonical ST universe) to be changed.
KDF had cloaks, Feds complained, Feds got access to cloakable vessels.
KDF had carriers, Feds complained, Feds got not just a normal carrier, they also got an ESCORT with hangars.
KDF had good consoles, Feds complained, Feds got access to those consoles via the console swap lockbox items. Granted, the KDF also got a couple of consoles, but the difference is, we didn't have to keep QQing until they were given to us.
KDF had unique STF sets, Feds complained, Feds got access to Adapted sets (and they're even complaining about that, because of shared grenade cooldowns on the ground set/grenade satchel kit).
KDF were the only faction with non-lockbox cruisers that could mount DC/DHCs, Feds complained, Breen Chel Grett arrives.
And now you want our species? Suppose you get the Gorn character, what then? People wanting Orions because "we've got Gorn, so why not?", how about Letheans and Nausicaans, want those too?
Regarding the "Gorn are not slaves of the Empire" argument: While not all Gorn in the Empire would consider themselves slaves, more than a few would. Ever put on a uniform and go walking around another man's country with a gun, telling them what's what? I have. I assure you people resent it, and that's just a transient occupation. A proper colonization, like what the Gorn have suffered at the hands of the Empire, is a whole other matter and a far more explosive one. Literally so. Northern Ireland anyone? India? Palistine?
We know from our one real in-show meeting with the Gorn (TOS; Arena) that the Gorn are:
a) As advanced as the Federation technologically at that time and the Federation was clearly out ahead of the Empire in this area. Granted much has changed over the years going by our timeline. Spock was shocked to the point of showing it on his face by the Gorn?s technical prowess when they remotely turned his tricorder into a bomb and we also saw them using hand-phasers when they disintegrated the party's redshirt; something only Federation side arms were capable of in TOS. In other words, though they may not have been a huge faction (though they may have it is left in the air but since it wasn?t followed up we can assume they were fairly small) they were clearly an advanced one.
Kirk also orders the Enterprise to follow the Gorn ship at a distance so that enemy sensors couldn't determine any solid facts about her--presumably because he had doubts the Enterprise was a match for them and intended to use some of his patented trickery to get the upper hand once he saw where they were heading.
b) We know that the Gorn were fanatically protective of their territory by the fact that they annihilated an alien colony the moment they detected it in their space then rushed home to get reinforcements once it was dispatched. I have a hard time picturing such creatures just rolling over for the Klingons and accepting them as their natural masters.
c) We know from all the ST shows that Klingon culture is extremely racist and has nothing but contempt for its conquered peoples. The game has lead the KDF in a new, more inclusive and multi-cultural direction (likely as a result of their ties to the Federation and to counter the Federation?s ability to grow and gain willing member races as a result of such a policy) but this policy is, at best, a generation old. How comfortable was the deep American south a mere generation after Jim Crow laws were officially taken off the books? Yes, the Gorn have a representative on the high council: Jews have representatives in the Iranian parliament--doesn-t mean its one big party for them over there.
Regarding KDF Resentment: The only real opposition I am seeing here is from dedicated KDF players who are simply voicing a generic resentment that they lack content on their side: nothing more. I agree with this sentiment but the fact is, comparatively speaking, hardly anyone plays KDF. I've been playing STO myself for almost 2 years and I'm just starting to myself.
THIS IS NOT A VALID LINE OF ARGUMENT. Sorry, it isn't. I agree the KDF side needs a lot of attention, whole-heartedly, but just being bitter and going "No, TRIBBLE the 'Fed fanboys'!" isn?t going to do any good there.
There is a valid, story-related reason that some Gorn would (and apparently do) serve in Starfleet. I have about a dozen different Gorn doffs in both my diplomatic and security sections and I cannot even recall doing the defection mission. The precedent, as well as all requisite justifications, is already in-game. Sorry, it is so.
Regarding Gorn Speaking: As far as Gorn and speech: It is established in ST they DO speak; in both cases through translators. It is possible that their vocal chords cannot produce the same sounds as many mammals, and thus they might not be able to reproduce them, though they could certainly learn to understand them. Regardless, getting bent about languages in ST is just plain silly; every alien in the galaxy (even ones in the Delta Quadrant who had never heard of Earth or Humans) speak perfect English. The "Universal Translator" hand-wave is in full effect so this is a non-issue.
BOs only as an exchange officer and DOFFs through defection.
Besides based on that logic every species would be available to everyone.
What does it matter how you got the officer? They're Starfleet officers now. They have a Starfleet rank. Can you seriously say the Federation would refuse to promote them above commander based on race?
And yes, every species should be available to everyone. You can make 99% of all Trek species as a custom Alien already anyway.
Not bitter, it just really irritates me when people say "I want that", but instead of getting it in the "correct" way want the game's rules (not to mention the actual canonical ST universe) to be changed.
I am glad you are here to tell me what is and isn't acceptable behavior. Thank you so much.
KDF had cloaks, Feds complained, Feds got access to cloakable vessels.
Actually the Federation did have cloaking technology. According to TNG better than the Romulans. They simply signed a treaty with the Romulans not to persue the technology but by the time of DS9 were doing it anyway. The defiant had a cloaking device. According to "All good things" the Enterprise had one as well 20 years later. Since Romulas is gone it is safe to assume that treaty is gone. Cloaking technology is old hack for everyone at this stage of the game. Non-point.
KDF had carriers, Feds complained, Feds got not just a normal carrier, they also got an ESCORT with hangars.
Again, established already by DS9 that the Federation was using fighters in combat. There is MORE cannon supporting a fed carrier than a Klingon one, if you really want to go there.
KDF had good consoles, Feds complained, Feds got access to those consoles via the console swap lockbox items. Granted, the KDF also got a couple of consoles, but the difference is, we didn't have to keep QQing until they were given to us.
I am not even sure what the point of this "sentence" is so I will let it go. You are mad that both sides got something: check, whatever.
KDF had unique STF sets, Feds complained, Feds got access to Adapted sets (and they're even complaining about that, because of shared grenade cooldowns on the ground set/grenade satchel kit).
And now you want our species? Suppose you get the Gorn character, what then? People wanting Orions because "we've got Gorn, so why not?", how about Letheans and Nausicaans, want those too?
Couldn't care less about those myself but sure, why not. I would also be happy with humans and Vulcans in the KDF to be honest. The Alpha Quadrent community is old and mixed enough now I could see any member of any species ending up serving with any faction under such circumstances.
Also, it is more than worth noting, about 90% of the people in the game are playing the Fed side. the end. I think the KDF SHOULD get more attention, this ratio would likely close a bit if they do, but come now...
Also, let me leave you with a simple question: How will your experience of the game be deminished if I'm using a Gorn captain on the Fed side? Really, exactly WHAT will happen to ruin your time here?
What does it matter how you got the officer? They're Starfleet officers now. They have a Starfleet rank. Can you seriously say the Federation would refuse to promote them above commander based on race?
No, because defectors are untrustworthy.
Never trust a traitor, even one you created yourself.
If the Federation gets Gorn, it's only fair that the KDF get access to Fed species too. After all, under your logic, what's to stop a human who agrees that the Undine infiltrators need to be hunted down at all costs from defecting to the Klingon side? DS9 proved in several episodes that some Klingons can see other species as allies and comrades.
Centurion Tenir - R.R.W. Taldor
Legacy of Romulus, Round One Closed Beta Tester
"The Republic may need to work with Starfleet and the Klingons now, but trust neither of them."
I'm not fond of the idea to be honest, but I wouldn't lead a revolt if such a feature was implemented.
Aesthetically, and characteristically, I feel that the Gorn are more naturally suited to the KDF. I'm just not sure they'd be comfortable serving Starfleet. Yes I am aware that you can have defector doffs, I have a few of them myself on my Fed character, but these equate to little more than pictures on trading cards. They aren't really NPC or player characters, they have no personality or relevance.
I wouldn't do this myself for the above reason, but I'm OK with other players wanting to do it. What would be cool is if the defected races had a different tutorial mission that shows why they defected in the first place, a little background detail would make the idea more believable.
If the Federation gets Gorn, it's only fair that the KDF get access to Fed species too. After all, under your logic, what's to stop a human who agrees that the Undine infiltrators need to be hunted down at all costs from defecting to the Klingon side? DS9 proved in several episodes that some Klingons can see other species as allies and comrades.
The problem with this line of thought is that 99% of the Fed Players, aren't going to complain if you do get them.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
"The Gorn were originally to have been featured as the villains in the 2001 Enterprise episode "The Andorian Incident". One reason why their role in the story was replaced with the Andorians was that the Gorn, unlike the Andorians, were unable to talk."
Wrong definition. He meant that IF the Gorn had been the bad guys, the NX would have been unable to contact them or learn their identities. In contrast to the Andorians where we get to see them rant to the NX about being angry, the Gorn would have been unable to talk to the NX crew without creating a continuity error. Kirk's run in was a First Contact scenario, thus they couldn't have Archer actually meet the Gorn.
Except the Gorn are in Starfleet. You can get Gorn bridge officers and duty officers. And Starfleet isn't racist enough to say those Gorn can never be captain of a ship.
Where was stated that the KDF wouldnt allow the Gorn to be a captain of a ship?
Your bias against Klingon society is showing through in your statement on racism.
Wrong definition. He meant that IF the Gorn had been the bad guys, the NX would have been unable to contact them or learn their identities. In contrast to the Andorians where we get to see them rant to the NX about being angry, the Gorn would have been unable to talk to the NX crew without creating a continuity error. Kirk's run in was a First Contact scenario, thus they couldn't have Archer actually meet the Gorn.
I just wish they'd have had this amount of basic intelligence when they approached the topic of the Ferengi.
Hardly an honest reason to not just play KDF Gorn.
I would say the real dishonesty is to be found in Cryptic. They put a lot of extra shinies KDF-side to try to get people to play an unpopular faction that most do not want to be a part of at all. Its a poorly executed attempt to get people to play KDF characters but its still not working. They have however succeeded in making the KDF the farming alt faction.
I can't imagine real KDF players to be happy about that at all tbh.
For the record, I am against ANY hard species restrictions in the game. Some races should be C-Store items to help keep their numbers down but yes, allow each faction all of them.
Haha. So even though evidence exists in the games back story and supporting book, Needs of the Many, on why the Gorn are not in SF the defensed used to debunk it is the Ol' KDF angst excuse?
Thats the pathetic old fed reasoning always used when a fed wants something from the KDF. Why not offer real evidence to support your case instead of " because the KDF says No" excuse.
Haha. So even though evidence exists in the games back story and supporting book, Needs of the Many, on why the Gorn are not in SF the defensed used to debunk it is the Ol' KDF angst excuse?
Thats the pathetic old fed reasoning always used when a fed wants something from the KDF. Why not offer real evidence to support your case instead of " because the KDF says No" excuse.
I would like to respond to your post: Can i see it in English? Honesty, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Thats the pathetic old fed reasoning always used when a fed wants something from the KDF. Why not offer real evidence to support your case instead of " because the KDF says No" excuse.
I would rather ask WHY Cryptic has a bizarre faction imbalance where one side has more story content and the other has better quality of life and unique toys and shinies.
As it stands Feds are right to be upset they really have nothing unique compared to the KDF and the KDF is right to be upset at being a second or third class faction. With the current setup EVERYONE feels bad and are right to do so. How did they think this was a workable solution is beyond me. Worse yet, since they have already weighted certain game mechanics in the KDF's favor in an attempt to grow the faction its even more unlikely they will ever feel compelled to finish it. In their minds its all balanced out after all....
Do you suffer from subjective comprehension? The post is very clear in its point.
No so much that as I am repulsed by the horrendous sentence structure put on display here. As to your claim that no argument has been offered except "The Feds are out to get us KDF players" that is both a) clearly untrue if you bothered to read any of the posts and b) the sort of wanton distortion I have come to expect. You are just a cantankerous and reactive contrarian who wants to feel put upon. No one is trying to take anything away from you; get over yourself.
One of the first things I bought was the the FED klingon character in the Z-store. I couldn't wait till I hit level 24. Gee, was I green on the leveling speed then.
Anyway I got my own Fed Kling and she is special to me. I made a story of defection about sick with the clan honour and culture combined with personal things blah..blah...blah.
Now this is only a thing that matters in my own game play, but it would be interesting to have a defection mechanism in the game. Perhaps a lockbox item that give you access to both bases and/or some diplomatic oriented missions.
BTW, you don't see much Klingon feds, since that can be a problem. I do not like the rigid faction mechanics as we have them in most MMO's, but I also don't want faction A overpopulated with folks of faction B.
Comments
KDF had cloaks, Feds complained, Feds got access to cloakable vessels.
KDF had carriers, Feds complained, Feds got not just a normal carrier, they also got an ESCORT with hangars.
KDF had good consoles, Feds complained, Feds got access to those consoles via the console swap lockbox items. Granted, the KDF also got a couple of consoles, but the difference is, we didn't have to keep QQing until they were given to us.
KDF had unique STF sets, Feds complained, Feds got access to Adapted sets (and they're even complaining about that, because of shared grenade cooldowns on the ground set/grenade satchel kit).
KDF were the only faction with non-lockbox cruisers that could mount DC/DHCs, Feds complained, Breen Chel Grett arrives.
And now you want our species? Suppose you get the Gorn character, what then? People wanting Orions because "we've got Gorn, so why not?", how about Letheans and Nausicaans, want those too?
We know from our one real in-show meeting with the Gorn (TOS; Arena) that the Gorn are:
a) As advanced as the Federation technologically at that time and the Federation was clearly out ahead of the Empire in this area. Granted much has changed over the years going by our timeline. Spock was shocked to the point of showing it on his face by the Gorn?s technical prowess when they remotely turned his tricorder into a bomb and we also saw them using hand-phasers when they disintegrated the party's redshirt; something only Federation side arms were capable of in TOS. In other words, though they may not have been a huge faction (though they may have it is left in the air but since it wasn?t followed up we can assume they were fairly small) they were clearly an advanced one.
Kirk also orders the Enterprise to follow the Gorn ship at a distance so that enemy sensors couldn't determine any solid facts about her--presumably because he had doubts the Enterprise was a match for them and intended to use some of his patented trickery to get the upper hand once he saw where they were heading.
b) We know that the Gorn were fanatically protective of their territory by the fact that they annihilated an alien colony the moment they detected it in their space then rushed home to get reinforcements once it was dispatched. I have a hard time picturing such creatures just rolling over for the Klingons and accepting them as their natural masters.
c) We know from all the ST shows that Klingon culture is extremely racist and has nothing but contempt for its conquered peoples. The game has lead the KDF in a new, more inclusive and multi-cultural direction (likely as a result of their ties to the Federation and to counter the Federation?s ability to grow and gain willing member races as a result of such a policy) but this policy is, at best, a generation old. How comfortable was the deep American south a mere generation after Jim Crow laws were officially taken off the books? Yes, the Gorn have a representative on the high council: Jews have representatives in the Iranian parliament--doesn-t mean its one big party for them over there.
Regarding KDF Resentment: The only real opposition I am seeing here is from dedicated KDF players who are simply voicing a generic resentment that they lack content on their side: nothing more. I agree with this sentiment but the fact is, comparatively speaking, hardly anyone plays KDF. I've been playing STO myself for almost 2 years and I'm just starting to myself.
THIS IS NOT A VALID LINE OF ARGUMENT. Sorry, it isn't. I agree the KDF side needs a lot of attention, whole-heartedly, but just being bitter and going "No, TRIBBLE the 'Fed fanboys'!" isn?t going to do any good there.
There is a valid, story-related reason that some Gorn would (and apparently do) serve in Starfleet. I have about a dozen different Gorn doffs in both my diplomatic and security sections and I cannot even recall doing the defection mission. The precedent, as well as all requisite justifications, is already in-game. Sorry, it is so.
Regarding Gorn Speaking: As far as Gorn and speech: It is established in ST they DO speak; in both cases through translators. It is possible that their vocal chords cannot produce the same sounds as many mammals, and thus they might not be able to reproduce them, though they could certainly learn to understand them. Regardless, getting bent about languages in ST is just plain silly; every alien in the galaxy (even ones in the Delta Quadrant who had never heard of Earth or Humans) speak perfect English. The "Universal Translator" hand-wave is in full effect so this is a non-issue.
And yes, every species should be available to everyone. You can make 99% of all Trek species as a custom Alien already anyway.
Actually the Federation did have cloaking technology. According to TNG better than the Romulans. They simply signed a treaty with the Romulans not to persue the technology but by the time of DS9 were doing it anyway. The defiant had a cloaking device. According to "All good things" the Enterprise had one as well 20 years later. Since Romulas is gone it is safe to assume that treaty is gone. Cloaking technology is old hack for everyone at this stage of the game. Non-point.
Again, established already by DS9 that the Federation was using fighters in combat. There is MORE cannon supporting a fed carrier than a Klingon one, if you really want to go there.
I am not even sure what the point of this "sentence" is so I will let it go. You are mad that both sides got something: check, whatever.
Both sides again.
A ship 3 or 4 people will use in a month. This is absurd, you are just reaching for anything at this point.
Couldn't care less about those myself but sure, why not. I would also be happy with humans and Vulcans in the KDF to be honest. The Alpha Quadrent community is old and mixed enough now I could see any member of any species ending up serving with any faction under such circumstances.
Also, it is more than worth noting, about 90% of the people in the game are playing the Fed side. the end. I think the KDF SHOULD get more attention, this ratio would likely close a bit if they do, but come now...
Also, let me leave you with a simple question: How will your experience of the game be deminished if I'm using a Gorn captain on the Fed side? Really, exactly WHAT will happen to ruin your time here?
No, because defectors are untrustworthy.
Never trust a traitor, even one you created yourself.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Aesthetically, and characteristically, I feel that the Gorn are more naturally suited to the KDF. I'm just not sure they'd be comfortable serving Starfleet. Yes I am aware that you can have defector doffs, I have a few of them myself on my Fed character, but these equate to little more than pictures on trading cards. They aren't really NPC or player characters, they have no personality or relevance.
I wouldn't do this myself for the above reason, but I'm OK with other players wanting to do it. What would be cool is if the defected races had a different tutorial mission that shows why they defected in the first place, a little background detail would make the idea more believable.
The problem with this line of thought is that 99% of the Fed Players, aren't going to complain if you do get them.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
My character Tsin'xing
Where was stated that the KDF wouldnt allow the Gorn to be a captain of a ship?
Your bias against Klingon society is showing through in your statement on racism.
R.I.P
I just wish they'd have had this amount of basic intelligence when they approached the topic of the Ferengi.
I would say the real dishonesty is to be found in Cryptic. They put a lot of extra shinies KDF-side to try to get people to play an unpopular faction that most do not want to be a part of at all. Its a poorly executed attempt to get people to play KDF characters but its still not working. They have however succeeded in making the KDF the farming alt faction.
I can't imagine real KDF players to be happy about that at all tbh.
Thats the pathetic old fed reasoning always used when a fed wants something from the KDF. Why not offer real evidence to support your case instead of " because the KDF says No" excuse.
R.I.P
I would like to respond to your post: Can i see it in English? Honesty, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Do you suffer from subjective comprehension? The post is very clear in its point.
R.I.P
The game has a reason for the Gorn being primarily in the KDF. The doff argument is weak because feds can get most if not all KDF races as doffs.
My character Tsin'xing
I would agree with a plan to make Saurians look more lizard-like. They could use some bigger eyes and some face and neck ridges.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Saurian_%28species%29?file=Saurian.jpg
Now that makes sense. The Saurians could be the fed gorn equivalent like our Ferasans are are the Caitain equivalent.
R.I.P
Something
I would rather ask WHY Cryptic has a bizarre faction imbalance where one side has more story content and the other has better quality of life and unique toys and shinies.
As it stands Feds are right to be upset they really have nothing unique compared to the KDF and the KDF is right to be upset at being a second or third class faction. With the current setup EVERYONE feels bad and are right to do so. How did they think this was a workable solution is beyond me. Worse yet, since they have already weighted certain game mechanics in the KDF's favor in an attempt to grow the faction its even more unlikely they will ever feel compelled to finish it. In their minds its all balanced out after all....
KDF has already been stripped of a lot that was specific to it.
If you want to roll a Gorn, then make a KDF character.
How hard is it? Good lord. It's right there and a cinch to level up as well.
My character Tsin'xing
Would they look anything like this?
No so much that as I am repulsed by the horrendous sentence structure put on display here. As to your claim that no argument has been offered except "The Feds are out to get us KDF players" that is both a) clearly untrue if you bothered to read any of the posts and b) the sort of wanton distortion I have come to expect. You are just a cantankerous and reactive contrarian who wants to feel put upon. No one is trying to take anything away from you; get over yourself.
Anyway I got my own Fed Kling and she is special to me. I made a story of defection about sick with the clan honour and culture combined with personal things blah..blah...blah.
Now this is only a thing that matters in my own game play, but it would be interesting to have a defection mechanism in the game. Perhaps a lockbox item that give you access to both bases and/or some diplomatic oriented missions.
BTW, you don't see much Klingon feds, since that can be a problem. I do not like the rigid faction mechanics as we have them in most MMO's, but I also don't want faction A overpopulated with folks of faction B.