How exactly is "Run STFs hoping for a Random Lucky Drop (that could, if you're really lucky, come Very Soon)" earning the gear, but running STFs to get through the rep system (and obtain the resources you need to then purchase the items) not earning it? You still have to do a bunch of stuff before you can obtain the gear - it's not like you logged in after S7 hit and the equipment showed up in your mailbox.
(On this theory, working for a lottery ticket an hour, until you get that $100k payoff is earning it but working for a set salary for that same $100k isn't earning it. That's strange.)
How? Let's see. Before season 7, if you wanted a MK XI set and were totally unlucky, you still had to EARN that set by PARTICIPATING in 60 eSTFS (2 edcs per eSTF, 40 edcs for 1 piece of a MK XI set).
Now with season 7, how many eSTFs do you have to run to throw away commodities and earn a ridiculously low amount of omega rep? That's right: Not that many.
actually, your statement is also contradicting.. as you had access to all of the set bonuses and items b4.. and it was garunteed.. it just rewarded those who dont believe that everything should be handed to them.. and to be honest, it was for a mere what, 6 pts of extra dps.. that is it.. i still dont understand why everyone got their panties in a bunch over it...
the old system was great.. everyone got their stuff, and the elite who hung in there and worked the content got a little extra edge.. now we are back to sto, everyone is exactly the same cause all of the items are purchasable.... pretty lame and boring if you ask me..
i will agree, it was a bit "too grindy" but at least it seperated the boys from the men...
Because everyone wasn't flying around in 2 pc Borg with a Maco/KDG shield and Mk XII Borg weapons.
You know how you can easily get rid of the Rep system?
Don't use it.
There you go. Don't grind STFs, run each of them once, and then move on to whatever content you prefer. Go play Foundry missions, rerun story missions with different characters, whatever floats your boat.
I prefer the fact it's way easier to work on Reputation than the old system, but the fact is that there's no particular NEED for Reputation -- you could just buy stuff with Dilithium (and if you bother doing PvP, that's probably a good idea, anyway)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
So people complain that it's too hard to get stuff, and when Cryptic changes it, they complain it's too easy.
Yup.
well your statement is true, but that is because they went the complete polor opposite, they never found good middle ground.. both making you participate in "all" of the stf's to earn your gear, and still making it obtainable to get the gear.. instead, they made it so stupidly easy that a 3 year old can do it now..
there was no compramise.. as usual.. its not the other players fault.. it is cryptics for not taking the time to figure out or researching what a good medium would have been... as usual. they came up with some half a**ed idea, and rushed it out.. this isnt a rep system. it is a grind fest that is exactly the same as all the previous "content" releases they released.. ie, starting with the doff mission, the starbase projects, and the embassy.. they felt they hadnt kicked that dead horse enouph, so they modeled the rep system after it as well... its the same old sh** different skin....
So people complain that it's too hard to get stuff, and when Cryptic changes it, they complain it's too easy.
Yup.
You're confusing easy with absence of participation. The new system is not easy. It's painfully meaningless, boring and costly. And that's tough in a Star Trek game where the new content has you running after Andorian targs.
Because everyone wasn't flying around in 2 pc Borg with a Maco/KDG shield and Mk XII Borg weapons.
You have some hellacious revisionist history.
actually, most people were at that point.. i had taken half a year off, came back to the changed stf's (well from the old old ones, to the new old ones lol) and spent literally a month playing.. doing at least 3 every few days. and i had all mk 11 borg weapons, and one of the two full sets (i went omega).. and had a ground set mk 11..
i then started working on my mk 12 set.. and that was rediculously hard, grindy, and kinda nerve racking, but i got them..
honestly dude, im not trying to say that a change wasnt needed fully. but they kinda took the "stf" out of stf gear..
and honestly, it took about the same amount of time as it does now (and was way way cheaper) to obtain the same gear in mk11 then that it is now..
like i said previously, a compramise was needed, and they went beyond compramise and made it kinda of a joke now... this is also my problem with starbase gear.. everything is purchasable.. there is nothing to define one player from the other. as far as gear goes now.. the players who dedicated themselves to trying to be the best are now just another face in the crowd... but isnt that what is wrong with the world today.. everyone gets a trophy, weather you win or lose...
You're confusing easy with absence of participation. The new system is not easy. It's painfully meaningless, boring and costly. And that's tough in a Star Trek game where the new content has you running after Andorian targs.
this 110%... couldnt have said it better myself.. everyone gets a trophy, right...
You're confusing easy with absence of participation. The new system is not easy. It's painfully meaningless, boring and costly. And that's tough in a Star Trek game where the new content has you running after Andorian targs.
Costly? what do you do with your energy credits? A single sb24 run will pay for a day of rep. I make so much more profit in season 7 than season 6 that its ridiculous.
Boring? Your running the same instances you were before, but now it's a diversified set instead of just the same 3 STFs. You need to look up the meaning of boring, I think you've confused it with personal inconvienence and impatience.
Meaningless? What a dumb... What in the hell meaning did season 6 have, this is a video game, not a life quest. The purpose is to get gear, skills, etc
Yes, I miss the meaningfulness of a system that rewarded people with loads of free time and obsessive tendencies running stuff a billion times so they can feel superior.
Boy, that's a shame.
Grinding a number rather than playing mini raid lotto is so much less meaningful!
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
well your statement is true, but that is because they went the complete polor opposite, they never found good middle ground.. both making you participate in "all" of the stf's to earn your gear, and still making it obtainable to get the gear.. instead, they made it so stupidly easy that a 3 year old can do it now..
You're confusing easy with absence of participation. The new system is not easy. It's painfully meaningless, boring and costly. And that's tough in a Star Trek game where the new content has you running after Andorian targs.
I think it's a great medium. Sure, it's not the most exciting thing in the world watching that 20 hr timer count down, but, when contrasted to spending 30+ minutes with idiots in Odysseys equipped with every kind of array type, who claim to be the godsend to gaming, while seemingly incapable of formulating words more complex than motherf*****, and to add insult upon that injury; I might only get Mk X consoles for my efforts.
As grindy as it may be, I will take the guaranteed rewards any day thank you.
Costly? what do you do with your energy credits? A single sb24 run will pay for a day of rep. I make so much more profit in season 7 than season 6 that its ridiculous.
Total cost of:
1 Honor Guard MK XII space set, 1 Honor Guard MK XII ground set, 1 Honor Guard MK XI space set, 1 Honor Guard MK XI ground set, 1 Omega MK XII space set, 1 Omega MK XII ground set, 1 Omega MK XI space set, 1 Omega MK XI ground set, 2 Borg space sets, 1 Honor Guard MK XII extra shield, about 20 MK XII space weapons (for 3 ships) and about 10 MK XII extra ground wepons on THREE characters:
Boring? Your running the same instances you were before, but now it's a diversified set instead of just the same 3 STFs. You need to look up the meaning of boring, I think you've confused it with personal inconvienence.
Meaningless? What a dumb... What in the hell meaning did season 6 have, this is a video game, not a life quest. The purpose is to get gear, skills, etc
So you're fine with getting gear while doing nothing for it?
The grinding to complete the tiers of the reputation system is minimal.... You can earn the required marks and ec's casually by stumbling about the new content or playing an ESTF with your buddies once a night. Once we get a group we tend to roll through all of the space stfs, skipping hive and we have enough marks for the whole week.
Playing SB24 once a day is not only fun... it rewards more than enough EC through drops to fund all the mats. The reputation system has progressed the game, and despite the bugs from terrible qa of powers and new items... it will advance STO's model of free to play.
The issue of DL is really dependent on the person. I only spend DL on end game gear and that is pretty rare... weeks go by without spending DL. As my signature will tell you... its absolutely ridiculous to try to save DL for zen as it's a complete waste of your personal time. You could work one more hour at your job and get way more zen for that period of time than you could possibly earn while in game. Though I understand that people aren't as lucky as others in this economy... or would rather spend considerably more time in game rather than one more our at work...
Also I don't spend that much zen either... there has been nothing to entice me lately.... though I may get a regent and a few fleet ships soon.
The math in your sig is off by a 10x
$7.25 US will get you only 725 Zen
725 x current 98 = 71,000 Dilthium - still more than you can make in 1 hour on the game.
I would like to get on with the stoyline as well.I made a simliar thread and agree the omega marks are way to high.I can earn more rep in PWI by just doing Bounty Hunters and helping those out with thier FBs(Final Blood) quests.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I still can't wrap my head around how dense you have to be to think the old system was better.
The new system isn't perfect, by any means. In some ways it's even more restrictive (takes much longer to get Borg set or anti-Borg weapons), but it addresses all the major issues with the crappy old method pretty well, such as the awful random rolls on gear, and reducing the overall amount of grind required on average by, what did Stahl say, 60%?
It takes about a month now to reach T5, and it requires a relatively minimal grind with a slightly better array of options for getting there, versus being forced into six missions, some of which you hate or aren't good at, for little more than a bad-odds roll at what you want.
Maybe it's because I have an ounce of sense, but I'll take the potentially slower, guaranteed route, over the potentially faster, maybe-you-play-200-STFs-and-get-nothing route.
^I guess you are a former subsriber then so grinding is no problem for you if you really know what a casual game is 1 elite stf is not enough to get 250 omega marks.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
Maybe it's because I have an ounce of sense, but I'll take the potentially slower, guaranteed route, over the potentially faster, maybe-you-play-200-STFs-and-get-nothing route.
It's TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have gotten nothing after 200 STF in the old system. Unless you were one of those rage quitter who was leaving before the end of the round.
It's TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have gotten nothing after 200 STF in the old system. Unless you were one of those rage quitter who was leaving before the end of the round.
It is TOTALLY POSSIBLE That's what RANDOM means...you can run 1,000 and get nothing,and run 4 and get everything it's the luck of the draw.
The only way the old system is better than the new IMO is getting the Borg Set. The old system required 15 EDC and doing a 30 minute mission. Doing ISE during Infected Wednesday that occurred once a month would only require 4 ISEs to do. The new system requires a lot more and the console is no longer a mission reward.
The Reputation system is here to stay. New content will always have a new Reputation system attached to it. Sure there is the possibility that some seasons won't have a new reputation or fleet holding, but it is not likely. So the only options for people that dislike it are get used to it, ignore it, or find something else. There are more people that like the reputation system or doesn't matter to them than hate it.
Sure. But again anything else than a MK XII set was not "nothing".
To me yes it is nothing, I wanted the MK XII, just like any MMO I want to cool looking Gear and the Honor, OMEGA and MACO XII were the cool looking ones. I could careless for stats since you can pretty much do any PVE in this game without the MACO and OMEGA gear. So to me it was getting that Helmet was my goal.
My alts who I was not trying to get the gear for got it, and my Main never got any even though I tried with him more then I like to count.
To me yes it is nothing, I wanted the MK XII, just like any MMO I want to cool looking Gear and the Honor, OMEGA and MACO XII were the cool looking ones. I could careless for stats since you can pretty much do any PVE in this game without the MACO and OMEGA gear. So to me it was getting that Helmet was my goal.
My alts who I was not trying to get the gear for got it, and my Main never got any even though I tried with him more then I like to count.
If true, then I can understand the frustration. But in turn, you have to understand that some people feel that the rep system is uninteresting and that "your" problem could have simply been fixed with 80 ecds/piece of MK XII set.
If true, then I can understand the frustration. But in turn, you have to understand that some people feel that the rep system is uninteresting and that "your" problem could have simply been fixed with 80 ecds/piece of MK XII set.
Sure. But again anything else than a MK XII set was not "nothing".
Yes it is. In an MMO the most powerful set/gear/weapon/armor/ship is the most coveted, and anything less is, well, less.
Personally, I find that the old way of getting STF gear to be a astronomical waste of time, and a gamble worse that the Lockboxes. While it has it's flaws to be sure, I wish that the reputation system happened long ago.
Comments
How? Let's see. Before season 7, if you wanted a MK XI set and were totally unlucky, you still had to EARN that set by PARTICIPATING in 60 eSTFS (2 edcs per eSTF, 40 edcs for 1 piece of a MK XI set).
Now with season 7, how many eSTFs do you have to run to throw away commodities and earn a ridiculously low amount of omega rep? That's right: Not that many.
Yup.
Because everyone wasn't flying around in 2 pc Borg with a Maco/KDG shield and Mk XII Borg weapons.
You have some hellacious revisionist history.
give us both methods... and jesus will appear :O
Don't use it.
There you go. Don't grind STFs, run each of them once, and then move on to whatever content you prefer. Go play Foundry missions, rerun story missions with different characters, whatever floats your boat.
I prefer the fact it's way easier to work on Reputation than the old system, but the fact is that there's no particular NEED for Reputation -- you could just buy stuff with Dilithium (and if you bother doing PvP, that's probably a good idea, anyway)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
well your statement is true, but that is because they went the complete polor opposite, they never found good middle ground.. both making you participate in "all" of the stf's to earn your gear, and still making it obtainable to get the gear.. instead, they made it so stupidly easy that a 3 year old can do it now..
there was no compramise.. as usual.. its not the other players fault.. it is cryptics for not taking the time to figure out or researching what a good medium would have been... as usual. they came up with some half a**ed idea, and rushed it out.. this isnt a rep system. it is a grind fest that is exactly the same as all the previous "content" releases they released.. ie, starting with the doff mission, the starbase projects, and the embassy.. they felt they hadnt kicked that dead horse enouph, so they modeled the rep system after it as well... its the same old sh** different skin....
You're confusing easy with absence of participation. The new system is not easy. It's painfully meaningless, boring and costly. And that's tough in a Star Trek game where the new content has you running after Andorian targs.
actually, most people were at that point.. i had taken half a year off, came back to the changed stf's (well from the old old ones, to the new old ones lol) and spent literally a month playing.. doing at least 3 every few days. and i had all mk 11 borg weapons, and one of the two full sets (i went omega).. and had a ground set mk 11..
i then started working on my mk 12 set.. and that was rediculously hard, grindy, and kinda nerve racking, but i got them..
honestly dude, im not trying to say that a change wasnt needed fully. but they kinda took the "stf" out of stf gear..
and honestly, it took about the same amount of time as it does now (and was way way cheaper) to obtain the same gear in mk11 then that it is now..
like i said previously, a compramise was needed, and they went beyond compramise and made it kinda of a joke now... this is also my problem with starbase gear.. everything is purchasable.. there is nothing to define one player from the other. as far as gear goes now.. the players who dedicated themselves to trying to be the best are now just another face in the crowd... but isnt that what is wrong with the world today.. everyone gets a trophy, weather you win or lose...
this 110%... couldnt have said it better myself.. everyone gets a trophy, right...
Costly? what do you do with your energy credits? A single sb24 run will pay for a day of rep. I make so much more profit in season 7 than season 6 that its ridiculous.
Boring? Your running the same instances you were before, but now it's a diversified set instead of just the same 3 STFs. You need to look up the meaning of boring, I think you've confused it with personal inconvienence and impatience.
Meaningless? What a dumb... What in the hell meaning did season 6 have, this is a video game, not a life quest. The purpose is to get gear, skills, etc
Seriously, what a complete crock of nonsense.
Boy, that's a shame.
Grinding a number rather than playing mini raid lotto is so much less meaningful!
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I think it's a great medium. Sure, it's not the most exciting thing in the world watching that 20 hr timer count down, but, when contrasted to spending 30+ minutes with idiots in Odysseys equipped with every kind of array type, who claim to be the godsend to gaming, while seemingly incapable of formulating words more complex than motherf*****, and to add insult upon that injury; I might only get Mk X consoles for my efforts.
As grindy as it may be, I will take the guaranteed rewards any day thank you.
Total cost of:
1 Honor Guard MK XII space set, 1 Honor Guard MK XII ground set, 1 Honor Guard MK XI space set, 1 Honor Guard MK XI ground set, 1 Omega MK XII space set, 1 Omega MK XII ground set, 1 Omega MK XI space set, 1 Omega MK XI ground set, 2 Borg space sets, 1 Honor Guard MK XII extra shield, about 20 MK XII space weapons (for 3 ships) and about 10 MK XII extra ground wepons on THREE characters:
ZERO!
How much will that cost in the rep system?
It's not like everyone is doing ISE only, right?
So you're fine with getting gear while doing nothing for it?
Exactly!
The math in your sig is off by a 10x
$7.25 US will get you only 725 Zen
725 x current 98 = 71,000 Dilthium - still more than you can make in 1 hour on the game.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
The new system isn't perfect, by any means. In some ways it's even more restrictive (takes much longer to get Borg set or anti-Borg weapons), but it addresses all the major issues with the crappy old method pretty well, such as the awful random rolls on gear, and reducing the overall amount of grind required on average by, what did Stahl say, 60%?
It takes about a month now to reach T5, and it requires a relatively minimal grind with a slightly better array of options for getting there, versus being forced into six missions, some of which you hate or aren't good at, for little more than a bad-odds roll at what you want.
Maybe it's because I have an ounce of sense, but I'll take the potentially slower, guaranteed route, over the potentially faster, maybe-you-play-200-STFs-and-get-nothing route.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Rectification: It shifted the grind to passive mode and reduced STF playing by a lot more than 60% (at least for me).
It's TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to have gotten nothing after 200 STF in the old system. Unless you were one of those rage quitter who was leaving before the end of the round.
It is TOTALLY POSSIBLE That's what RANDOM means...you can run 1,000 and get nothing,and run 4 and get everything it's the luck of the draw.
200 eSTFS meant at least 400 edcs and those were not "nothings".
Big whoop if you want the MK XII
I know a old friend who had a horseshoe installed up his you-know-where for his second toon.
On his first toon it took 300 ground runs to get the full MACO M12 set
on the Next toon he rolled he got it in 4 runs - the full set(almost back to back to back)
That's how insane the grounds were at least .
Space i never went more than 50-60 times in any mission before getting proto tech and tons of proto salvage.
Ground runs were just a nightmare for drops normally.
The Reputation system is here to stay. New content will always have a new Reputation system attached to it. Sure there is the possibility that some seasons won't have a new reputation or fleet holding, but it is not likely. So the only options for people that dislike it are get used to it, ignore it, or find something else. There are more people that like the reputation system or doesn't matter to them than hate it.
Sure. But again anything else than a MK XII set was not "nothing".
To me yes it is nothing, I wanted the MK XII, just like any MMO I want to cool looking Gear and the Honor, OMEGA and MACO XII were the cool looking ones. I could careless for stats since you can pretty much do any PVE in this game without the MACO and OMEGA gear. So to me it was getting that Helmet was my goal.
My alts who I was not trying to get the gear for got it, and my Main never got any even though I tried with him more then I like to count.
This new reputation is just a bore, nothing more.
If true, then I can understand the frustration. But in turn, you have to understand that some people feel that the rep system is uninteresting and that "your" problem could have simply been fixed with 80 ecds/piece of MK XII set.
should of kept that.
Then dumped these adapted sets as the rep reward.
Yes it is. In an MMO the most powerful set/gear/weapon/armor/ship is the most coveted, and anything less is, well, less.
Personally, I find that the old way of getting STF gear to be a astronomical waste of time, and a gamble worse that the Lockboxes. While it has it's flaws to be sure, I wish that the reputation system happened long ago.