Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but to be honest the leaver penalty is too lenient.
Devsshould make the leaver penalty a 24hrs Ban - It will make leavers think twice before leaving an STF.
A one hour punishment is dumb, since a player can simply go on to other things for that amount of time. So yeah, a 24hr ban would suffice.
Yeah, I'm sure everyone want 24h ban because of a bug. Several time I did leave because I arrived on an half done STF,... Alone. And CS sometime bug when you finish it and you don't have the timer to leave the map, you can only quit.
I don't even talk about how many I couldn't complete an STF because of an incompetent team. The last time we were 3, myself included, one of the 2 other was decent, the 3rd one didn't talk english at all, and never remodulate his weapon. It was CG No way we could finish it, so me and the other english speaker agreed on leaving.
I never leaved because I failed the optional, or people in my team was dumb, or whatever. So I don't think I'm an A** or a leecher. However I find the 24h ban ridiculous.
It's not new and I can't imagine anyone who remembers how things used to work when STF's were new complaining about leaver penalties. Without going into much detail about it, Infected - which used to mean doing the Space AND Ground parts of the mission - sometimes used to take all night to complete - if you even completed it. Unless you were there for that, you have no right to complain about the current system and if you were, you wouldn't be complaining. STF Leavers are the worst. Why? Because in many cases (depending on the map and/or ability/dps of those who are left) you make the mission impossible, or near impossible to complete. At least an AFKer/leacher/troll leaves the possibility open that they might be persuaded to participate but if you are not there, then that's not possible. Furthermore, if you leave or start moaning because the optional has failed, um... grow up? You're not the only one who has spent months having the IGN optional noobed up on you, ok? And in answer to 'get a freakin team' - um... if you're going to leave, get a freakin team yourself and stop TRIBBLE those of us who don't mind playing with 'noobs'. Pugs are for fun first and optionals and rewards second. If you pug with that mentality, you'll be a lot less irritated by them.
Yeah, I'm sure everyone want 24hr ban because of a bug. Several time I did leave because I arrived on an half done STF,... Alone. And CS sometime bug when you finish it and you don't have the timer to leave the map, you can only quit.
While I understand that at times you will encounter a BUG from time to time, it should not be a reason to not implement better consequences for those who religiously bail. I propose that one submit a ticket during BUG encounters.
I don't even talk about how many I couldn't complete an STF because of an incompetent team. The last time we were 3, myself included, one of the 2 other was decent, the 3rd one didn't talk english at all, and never remodulate his weapon. It was CG No way we could finish it, so me and the other english speaker agreed on leaving.
Hence a kick option needs to be implemented, one that will NOT penalize the one kicked.
I never leaved because I failed the optional, or people in my team was dumb, or whatever. So I don't think I'm an A** or a leecher. However I find the 24h ban ridiculous.
On the contrary it is not - people need to know that if you leave, you'll going to get a 24hr ban. It is mainly aimed at those players that simply leave on a consistent basis.
Here is the proposal:
A) A Voting system needs to be in place - A kick option / with no penalty on the one kicked.
A 24hr ban is a better deterrent than the current 1hr ban - make people think twice before bailing. Those who caught a BUG need to submit a ticket.
C) Bailing due to BAD teams or failure to complete an optional should not be an excuse - Hence they need to implement a kick system.
D) The 24hrs ban should be cumulative as one poster suggested - You just don't get an automatic 24hr ban - start with 1hr, maybe 2hrs etc... depending on your frequency of bailing.
E) AFKers after a min of non-activity is an automatic kick with a 2hr ban - If it accumulates during the week, an account wide 24hr ban.
Keep in mind if you simply play the STF and stick with the team, you shouldn't worry about leaver penalty - my point is it should target Rage Quitters & lazy players.
That is why I first agree that a kick option should be implemented, leading to a 24hr account wide ban for repeat offenders.
If you don't like leavers that much, get a freakin team!
Sheesh.
Unfortunately; some folks find it hard to do so. I myself deal with STFs with a team, so I almost never have leaver issues - What is recommend are for PUG Groups, which mainly are the inferior type of STF teams.
Not Inferior in the sense that folks are bad - but in the sense that you do not know what you will get as a team. Its is a random toss salad of players from a pool of players.
"My mama always said STF's was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." -Forrest Gump
Edit:
I suppose another option would be a 'quit vote'. If an STF starts with five players and two quit, the remaining three can opt to quit together thus ending the mission, without the penalty. This would be the fairest of options. Just needs to be implemented somehow.
A) A Voting system needs to be in place - A kick option / with no penalty on the one kicked.
If the person being kicked is leeching, then they deserve the penalty. No team in their right mind would kick anyone else for any other reason. The kick option should last only for 5-10 minutes (most STF's last longer) thus this would stop being taking advantage after 5-10 minutes if they didn't like someone ect.
I just got an 1 Hour STF Penality for entering an Infected Space (Elite) STF that only had 1 person in it (the original 4 players had already left)! :mad:
Right now, I'm pretty frustrated off that I ended getting punished because of someone else that decided to abandon their STF. And Furthermore, the Leaving Penality extends to the other Queued Events as well, which means I can't do Romulan Mark Events, Fleet Events, or even Fleet Actions!!
Cryptic NEEDS to revise these Penality Rules!!! :mad:
I think once someone starts a STF they should stay until its completed
logging out and back in even three days later should log you in to the SAME mission
There should be somekind of responsibilty, that's for sure. But to punish newly arriving players because of the original group having problems, just plain sucks.
Just another reason to add why I hate the Public Queues.
ive only "rage quit" one estf, that was on KSE where some tool ran around spawning borg cubes, not bothering to help (at the time there were 3 out), no one was watching the probes on one side and they slipped through and there was an afk leecher still sitting at the spawn point. That stf was just doomed from the get go. So... I left, switched toons, didn't have any more problems for the rest of the day.
I understand the point of the penalty is to discourage people from TRIBBLE over the stf's but theres just times where its prudent to just cut your losses and move on.
This would be the first case I'd ever heard of being placed into the wrong STF by the software's fault -- it has always been a mistake by the user in cases I've seen or heard about.
I've had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions. The first time I assumed it was my fault. Since I have been very careful to double-check. I've had two more instances since then. In each one I had selected the space instance (say "Infected" for example) and found myself in the ground instance. The last time I triple checked while awaiting game launch. I selected space but found myself in the ground instance.
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
I've had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions. The first time I assumed it was my fault. Since I have been very careful to double-check. I've had two more instances since then. In each one I had selected the space instance (say "Infected" for example) and found myself in the ground instance. The last time I triple checked while awaiting game launch. I selected space but found myself in the ground instance.
Perhaps a Season 7 Bug? Or has this happened prior to season 7?
I never had that problem, nor have I yet encountered it.
I just got an 1 Hour STF Penality for entering an Infected Space (Elite) STF that only had 1 person in it (the original 4 players had already left)! :mad:
Right now, I'm pretty frustrated off that I ended getting punished because of someone else that decided to abandon their STF. And Furthermore, the Leaving Penality extends to the other Queued Events as well, which means I can't do Romulan Mark Events, Fleet Events, or even Fleet Actions!!
Cryptic NEEDS to revise these Penality Rules!!! :mad:
There is no doubt in my mind that the system needs re-working - The STF should not even run with less than four players.
It should be an automatic Team Kick for all if the team is composed of only 3 players.
Calling people PUG because they are a new players or even if an older player happens to do a mistake during a STF is not a SOLUTION. There are older players out there that don't listen to reason and thus can make it very difficult for the team. Its simply a matter of which type of people you end up with and if they know the rules of the map.
Its the simplest way to flee.. but its not very nice to the other players.
Calling people PUG because they are a new players or even if an older player happens to do a mistake during a STF is not a SOLUTION. There are older players out there that don't listen to reason and thus can make it very difficult for the team. Its simply a matter of which type of people you end up with and if they know the rules of the map.
Its the simplest way to flee.. but its not very nice to the other players.
PUG
Definition:
Pick up Group ? a group assembled on the spot for a quest, a PvP battle, or an instance raid.
PUG teams are almost always the inferior team compared to legit Teams.
As others have said, the penalty was established when the STFs were remade to allow them to be accessed via queue in separate space and ground segments.
Most likely, you clicked on the wrong mission. I have done that a few times without realizing it.
Then, you quit that mission, which may force the people who queued for it to finish it without you, which is really bad etiquette. That is why the penalty timer was created, to prevent people from doing what you did (quitting the mission after it has begun) without consequence.
Or not to finish it at all. Certain missions like Manus are built for a specific number of players. If you don't have that, you are completely and totally screwed. Leaving means that you TRIBBLE four other people out of their rewards and force them to waste their time. If you enter an STF, do not leave. There is only one circumstance in which you should leave an STF (barring any real life drama), if others have left and you no longer have the numbers to complete the mission. In which case you have wasted your time and been denied your rewards. I hate it when that happens. Just don't do it.
The penalty does NOT work... as soon as things get a bit though people just leave. A 1 hour penalty will not change this. Sad but true.
Is not funny when in elite STF we lost the optional objetive and in the next minute all other players leave. The penalty should be 1 day without play any other stf and should be applied for all chars in account.
A number of time recently I have ended up in finished or empty instances. Left and ended up with a leavers penalty. I have also had the internet TRIBBLE out on me a number of times, crashed STO, randomly clicked the wrong button and closed STO while in a STF:o
I like "pugs" as you never know what you will get... (including Klingons in a shuttlecraft:P, a tuffi, Miranda Class:eek:, a federation runabout....).
Each player has to take part - but a kick option is open to abuse.
The levers penalty needs to be fair to all players and the 1 hour ban is the best of a series of bad options.
A number of time recently I have ended up in finished or empty instances. Left and ended up with a leavers penalty. I have also had the internet TRIBBLE out on me a number of times, crashed STO, randomly clicked the wrong button and closed STO while in a STF:o
I like "pugs" as you never know what you will get... (including Klingons in a shuttlecraft:P, a tuffi, Miranda Class:eek:, a federation runabout....).
Each player has to take part - but a kick option is open to abuse.
The levers penalty needs to be fair to all players and the 1 hour ban is the best of a series of bad options.
Cryptic surely could add in ship restrictions like with the shuttle-only missions that prevent you from entering an event with a shuttle or those who enter an STF with less than a Tier 5 ship.
And while the Kick Option may be prone to abuse, I'm willing to risk it. Because I'm tired of going into Queued Events with Moochers who just stand there needing every drop. Rather take action myself in booting them than expecting a GM to do something (which they never do).
As for Kick Abuse, the only people that likely to do so are friends or a fleet that would kick at the last second to prevent a person from completing the mission or getting the reward. So maybe have the kick option be available for the first 5 minutes or when certain triggers before the end take place?
This penalty timer has been around before season 7, and has carried over. The only solution found so far is to wait it out in current mission at least a min of 15-20mins. than you can freely leave without penalty. So hang tough in those misclicked missions and help in any way you can for that duration of time until you can depart without penalty.
Is not funny when in elite STF we lost the optional objetive and in the next minute all other players leave. The penalty should be 1 day without play any other stf and should be applied for all chars in account.
I agree... one day penalty for the whole account would be much more effective. Then people would think twice about leaving just because things are getting slightly thougher. Some people are leaving too fast,.. if they are noticing that not everyone does 100% perfect .. they leave.
I agree... one day penalty for the whole account would be much more effective. Then people would think twice about leaving just because things are getting slightly thougher. Some people are leaving too fast,.. if they are noticing that not everyone does 100% perfect .. they leave.
Hate to be the Devil's advocate here, but to be honest the leaver penalty is too lenient.
Devsshould make the leaver penalty a 24hrs Ban - It will make leavers think twice before leaving an STF.
A one hour punishment is dumb, since a player can simply go on to other things for that amount of time. So yeah, a 24hr ban would suffice.
Wow. Pretty harsh. If I got banned from a game for 24 hours, I would just find another game to play. Can you imagine how many people would leave STO? Only twenty people would be left playing this game.
Is not funny when in elite STF we lost the optional objetive and in the next minute all other players leave. The penalty should be 1 day without play any other stf and should be applied for all chars in account.
rofl...
Okay, if newbie pick up group players are to blame, why is it that elite players are the ones to leave when optional fails?
I love how everyone blames everyone else for failures.
"It cannot be me! I am too perfect! All hail me!"
98% of the people who complain about leavers are the ones who rage spam the team chat.
Sequence of events in a failed stf:
"You are doing the stf wrong! Listen to me!"
*new player attempts to learn*
"You complete jerk. You are not doing it my way!"
*new player keeps trying to figure things out*
"We failed optional because of you!"
*first elite player leaves*
*new player leaves while upset and confused.*
"You punk! You just left in the middle of an stfs, and we ended up losing optional!"
*all remaining players bail on stf*
*stf ranter opens up a thread and rants about pick up groups and leaver penalties.*
If some of you guys paid attention, you will find that some people have reported stf issues. Since you guys were too busy ranting about leavers, you all missed a possible reason for their departure. Not everything is in black and white.
i can understand being barred from that stf for one hour or all stfs but it locked me out of all content in the pve queques i could not do any of the pve missions which i think is overkill does this mean the next time i am in stf and the server boots me when i log back in i will be barred from playing? and i think thiss is something new
Get over it. You Queued in the wrong STF.....you didn't check the pop up window to be sure....then you screwed 4 other Captains.
The "Lever Penalty" is not new. It is just the first time you got busted for it.
i clicked to join infected the conduit and it put me in infected the manus i immediately left it removed all stfs from my menu saying i was blocked from stfs for 1 hour the i tryied clicking on fleet mark mission no win scenario and the chat window said i was banned from joining any queques WHY ?
Talk about ironic.
Dude the penalty is there to discourage player doing what you just explained. You joined an STF then left. You screwed up on selecting the correct mission then made it other players problem by leaving.
There is no way the game put you in the wrong STF, I would bet all my EC that bug does not exist.
I would like to add that I like the cool-down length. No changes required.
Wow. Pretty harsh. If I got banned from a game for 24 hours, I would just find another game to play. Can you imagine how many people would leave STO? Only twenty people would be left playing this game.
For starters, the idea is for it to be cumulative - like a three strikes your're out type notion.
gradually starts off with an hour ban account wide -
Strike 2 - a 2hr account wide ban
Strike 3 - a 24hr account wide ban
Harsh measures wouldn't be necessary if the system wasn't abused, but we all know the system is indeed abused and its hindering the gaming experience of legit players.
In your case, if you love abusing the STF system, then you have every right to fear the penalty - afterall; if you're not one of the abusers, than why fear the ban at all? Sure you can go play another game, however; I doubt they will run out of players for enforcing the ban on rule breakers.
Discrimination should have been left in the last millennium.
Discrimination? Legit PUGS? You seem to be confused friend when it comes to PUG over Team recruitment, and for that matter the notion that PUG teams are better than your own team made groups.
Legit Team made Groups are almost always a superior group experience over PUG any day. I am not casting a negative light on PUG but referring to the randomness of a PUG.
I use the queue system from time to time and get an excellent PUG Team, but I can never say that the teams I form or ask to join are inferior to PUGs. Anyone can do an Elite Space STF with a PUG and it is hit or miss on optional success or success at all - try going in with a PUG on any EliteSTF Ground missions where the failure rate is astonishing:
Involving Rage quitters to just plain Griefers
So if you think a PUG group is on par with a well coordinated selected team, think again - I have to roll my eyes this time. :rolleyes:
Okay, if newbie pick up group players are to blame, why is it that elite players are the ones to leave when optional fails?
I love how everyone blames everyone else for failures.
For starters, and no offense, but newbies should stay the heck away from EliteSTFs. Nobody really cares about normal STFs, leave that game diffculty for the newbies with no leaver penalty.
So yeah, I support a NO leaver penalty for STFs on normal.
and for those suppose elite players? They're not Elite, but only call themselves Elitists or for that matter perfectionists. It is those type of players that if they ever implement the 24hr account wide ban that I would love to see get burn by it.
They called themselves Elitists, but they're actually immature as a person and as gamers.
Cryptic surely could add in ship restrictions like with the shuttle-only missions that prevent you from entering an event with a shuttle or those who enter an STF with less than a Tier 5 ship.
I concur, entering in an end game space dungeon with anything less than a Tier 5 Starship is akin to griefing. It is a player made handicap and should be dealt with harshly.
And while the Kick Option may be prone to abuse, I'm willing to risk it. Because I'm tired of going into Queued Events with Moochers who just stand there needing every drop. Rather take action myself in booting them than expecting a GM to do something (which they never do).
Again I agree, the Kick Vote option should be implemeneted first. As a matter of fact they should implement the kick option first before even implementing a 24hr account wide ban.
As for Kick Abuse, the only people that likely to do so are friends or a fleet that would kick at the last second to prevent a person from completing the mission or getting the reward. So maybe have the kick option be available for the first 5 minutes or when certain triggers before the end take place?
Anything is open for abuse, however; You can pretty much get a feel for the group as a whole. The kicking abuse will mainly fall during PUG scenerios.
With PUG the players are random so it may be harder to kick someone, though if the 4 players are in agreement about the one not contributing, or SNAFU'ing the STF, then I don't see it being a huge problem.
Wow. Pretty harsh. If I got banned from a game for 24 hours, I would just find another game to play. Can you imagine how many people would leave STO? Only twenty people would be left playing this game.
Wow. Just...wow.
As if pick up groups are not legit, right?
*rolls eyes*
Discrimination should have been left in the last millennium.
rofl...
Okay, if newbie pick up group players are to blame, why is it that elite players are the ones to leave when optional fails?
I love how everyone blames everyone else for failures.
"It cannot be me! I am too perfect! All hail me!"
98% of the people who complain about leavers are the ones who rage spam the team chat.
Sequence of events in a failed stf:
"You are doing the stf wrong! Listen to me!"
*new player attempts to learn*
"You complete jerk. You are not doing it my way!"
*new player keeps trying to figure things out*
"We failed optional because of you!"
*first elite player leaves*
*new player leaves while upset and confused.*
"You punk! You just left in the middle of an stfs, and we ended up losing optional!"
*all remaining players bail on stf*
*stf ranter opens up a thread and rants about pick up groups and leaver penalties.*
If some of you guys paid attention, you will find that some people have reported stf issues. Since you guys were too busy ranting about leavers, you all missed a possible reason for their departure. Not everything is in black and white.
I agree with this. I always react when I hear other blaming the PUGS or read other speaking ill about the PUGS in the STF they just did which was a failure of some kind.
It's the harsh wording that gets to me.
New players or any player really should not have to hear stuff like that. Its bullying, really!
If you are a new player or similar you can't help that you might not know how things rolles or makes mistakes. And you don't have to be a new player to make mistakes.
We are here to learn and have fun.. with experience you get better.
I admit there have been moments I have got frustrating when someone in a group (not that I am perfect and that I have never made a mistake in STF - cus I have many times) kept triggering more spheres when they used torpedo spread (and hence firing on targets that will spawn more). We asked the guy to stop using spread but he wouldn't listen. I can tell you that STF was a nightmare. They just kept coming. People left and then it came impossible.
The thing is you cannot control the targets in spread. And even with beams or any weapons I have noticed that sometimes my ship continues to fire on a target that I want it to stop and target something else. Sometimes those things are difficult to control.
-- devs - maybe you should look over this? I am sure it is not suppose to be continuing firing when you are not pushing the button. Or maybe I just don't know how. Who knows.
Backt to topic.
I think these STF are to difficult and to long.
I want more mixed missions.. space and ground.
I am a person that prefer ground over space.. but doing the ground is a nightmare.
I always react when I hear other blaming the PUGS or read other speaking ill about the PUGS in the STF they just did which was a failure of some kind.
Here is the thing, what I am referring to in my postings is about Team quality and the difference between the quality of a PUG over the quality of a very well organized Team.
Just to make things clear - I have nothing personal against PUG'ing - as a matter of fact I used the Queue system from time to time and was randomly grouped with an excellent PUG.
Thats a matter of abuse, verbal abuse, and the one who is engaging in such behavior should be reported and banned from the game itself. These are the folks that may call themselves Elitists or perfectionists, they are often immature and cannot handle their own frustrations. At the end of the day STO is merely a game.
New players or any player really should not have to hear stuff like that. Its bullying, really!
If you are a new player or similar you can't help that you might not know how things rolles or makes mistakes. And you don't have to be a new player to make mistakes.
We are here to learn and have fun.. with experience you get better.
I agree, however; in my own personal opinion Elite STfs cater more to the seasoned players. Please don't judge me for saying this, but I really feel that if you are a New Player, and especially New to an STF, you should try normal mode first.
I am not saying that a new player not play on Elite, but merely stating that a new player should learn on normal mode than try it on elite.
Yesterday I was with several fleet mates that were new to an STF, I and several other season players from my friend list guided them through an EliteSTF. we taught them what to do and what not to do. It was basically training day on Elite.
I admit there have been moments I have got frustrating when someone in a group (not that I am perfect and that I have never made a mistake in STF - cus I have many times) kept triggering more spheres when they used torpedo spread (and hence firing on targets that will spawn more). We asked the guy to stop using spread but he wouldn't listen. I can tell you that STF was a nightmare. They just kept coming. People left and then it came impossible.
Hence why many here want a Kick vote option followed by a Ban.
The thing is you cannot control the targets in spread. And even with beams or any weapons I have noticed that sometimes my ship continues to fire on a target that I want it to stop and target something else. Sometimes those things are difficult to control.
hence training to overcome the obvious flaws. There is away from steering away from an auto attack - it requires timing and targeting something that will not risk losing the optional.
Actually you're blessed - I remember the times when STFs use to take almost 4hrs, a combination of both space and ground for one piece of retro-borg set. The storyline was also complete in a way.
I am a person that prefer ground over space.. but doing the ground is a nightmare.
Ground combat is by far the weakest point of this game, it is plagued with many issues in which I will not comment on for the sake of staying on topic.
For starters, and no offense, but newbies should stay the heck away from EliteSTFs. Nobody really cares about normal STFs, leave that game diffculty for the newbies with no leaver penalty.
For starters, the idea is for it to be cumulative - like a three strikes your're out type notion.
gradually starts off with an hour ban account wide -
Strike 2 - a 2hr account wide ban
Strike 3 - a 24hr account wide ban
Harsh measures wouldn't be necessary if the system wasn't abused, but we all know the system is indeed abused and its hindering the gaming experience of legit players.
In your case, if you love abusing the STF system, then you have every right to fear the penalty - afterall; if you're not one of the abusers, than why fear the ban at all? Sure you can go play another game, however; I doubt they will run out of players for enforcing the ban on rule breakers.
Legit Team made Groups are almost always a superior group experience over PUG any day. I am not casting a negative light on PUG but referring to the randomness of a PUG.
If 'some' of you people share his attitude, you folks need to get offline more often. While I understand the problem surrounding drifters, I will never-ever consider one group more important than another.
Do you know what an elite player should be?
(1) Respectful. Regardless about what happens within an STF, elite players should respect the rights of all players. No rage-spamming (chat & forum) and belittling of other players.
(2) Patient. Even though a new player may have entered into an advanced stf, elite players need use extreme patience with newbies. Allow them to make mistakes, ask questions, and try things.
(3) Adaptable. If you end up losing one player within the process, elite players should have enough skills to adapt to any circumstance. Step up. Suggest ideas without being a dictator. Try something new.
(4) Tolerant. Whenever I see the word 'pug' or pugs' being used, the word's context goes from innocent to discriminative. Elite players should not paint everyone with a broad brush.
(5) Honorable & Selfless. Even though the team may have missed the optional, elite players should not quit stfs out of a fit of rage. Help the other players reach the end, so they can get some type of reward. Since optional can be missed for any number of reasons, leaving stfs prematurely is like punishing innocent players. Don't be selfish.
(6) Flexible. While they may know one method for completing stfs, elite players should be aware that there could be other techniques. Its called 'knowing what you don't know'. Elite players are open minded to other methods for completing stfs.
Yes, I understand the issue we have with drifters; however, people could be leaving stfs for any number of reasons. Some of those reasons include: real life, software bugs, hardware issues, wrong stfs, learners anxiety, difficulty frustration, etc... If you want to talk about what is considered 'legit', I would ask someone who has built a family, earned a degree, obtained a promotion, and worked for a weekly paycheck. "Star Trek: Online" is a video game in which has no real life importance. While we run around in "Star Trek: Online's" virtual reality, we are using cartoons with fake names and handles.
I think these STF are too difficult and too long.
I want more mixed missions.. space and ground.
I am a person that prefer ground over space.. but doing the ground is a nightmare.
The leaver penalty has been around for a very long time. Now, as for the queues sending you to the wrong instance, I have seen this happen very often. Just yesterday I ran ~20 STFs and two of those STFs sent me to the wrong map. The first time I was on my tac queued up for Cure Ground Elite. The game launched and I ended up in Cure Space Normal...no problem there ~5 minutes later I am finished and I enter CGE without a problem. The second time was on my science officer. I had queued for Infected Ground Elite and landed in Khitomer Accord Ground Elite. Now, that may seem like an error on my part, but two other players on that map said in team chat that they had queued for Infected Space Elite.
In addition to my own personal encounter with it, I have also had about four other missions where players claimed in team chat that they had queued for a space mission. Now, I would understand if this was isolated incident, someone may have inadvertently misread the queue message. This is too widespread to be user error. There is certainly a bug floating around with the public queue system.
My only wish is that players would stick it out and finish the mission. 2 out of the 6 missions where someone noted they queued for the wrong map had leavers once the mission got hard. KA ground normal with only 2 players on my Level 46 engineer was interesting due to the shield room, but in the end it only took 10 minutes longer than needed. Now the Infected Ground Normal with that same character (3 players for the boss fight)...let's just say my fleet tribble spat out four fleet marks before the mission was over and I got a lot of practice using the engineering class. Ground can be a lot of fun, all it takes is an understanding of the mission strategies and practice, just like any space mission.
Comments
I don't even talk about how many I couldn't complete an STF because of an incompetent team. The last time we were 3, myself included, one of the 2 other was decent, the 3rd one didn't talk english at all, and never remodulate his weapon. It was CG No way we could finish it, so me and the other english speaker agreed on leaving.
I never leaved because I failed the optional, or people in my team was dumb, or whatever. So I don't think I'm an A** or a leecher. However I find the 24h ban ridiculous.
While I understand that at times you will encounter a BUG from time to time, it should not be a reason to not implement better consequences for those who religiously bail. I propose that one submit a ticket during BUG encounters.
Hence a kick option needs to be implemented, one that will NOT penalize the one kicked.
On the contrary it is not - people need to know that if you leave, you'll going to get a 24hr ban. It is mainly aimed at those players that simply leave on a consistent basis.
Here is the proposal:
A) A Voting system needs to be in place - A kick option / with no penalty on the one kicked.
C) Bailing due to BAD teams or failure to complete an optional should not be an excuse - Hence they need to implement a kick system.
D) The 24hrs ban should be cumulative as one poster suggested - You just don't get an automatic 24hr ban - start with 1hr, maybe 2hrs etc... depending on your frequency of bailing.
E) AFKers after a min of non-activity is an automatic kick with a 2hr ban - If it accumulates during the week, an account wide 24hr ban.
Keep in mind if you simply play the STF and stick with the team, you shouldn't worry about leaver penalty - my point is it should target Rage Quitters & lazy players.
That is why I first agree that a kick option should be implemented, leading to a 24hr account wide ban for repeat offenders.
Unfortunately; some folks find it hard to do so. I myself deal with STFs with a team, so I almost never have leaver issues - What is recommend are for PUG Groups, which mainly are the inferior type of STF teams.
Not Inferior in the sense that folks are bad - but in the sense that you do not know what you will get as a team. Its is a random toss salad of players from a pool of players.
"My mama always said STF's was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." - Forrest Gump
This I'd support.
Right now, I'm pretty frustrated off that I ended getting punished because of someone else that decided to abandon their STF. And Furthermore, the Leaving Penality extends to the other Queued Events as well, which means I can't do Romulan Mark Events, Fleet Events, or even Fleet Actions!!
Cryptic NEEDS to revise these Penality Rules!!! :mad:
logging out and back in even three days later should log you in to the SAME mission
But then im not a nice person
Just another reason to add why I hate the Public Queues.
I understand the point of the penalty is to discourage people from TRIBBLE over the stf's but theres just times where its prudent to just cut your losses and move on.
I've had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions. The first time I assumed it was my fault. Since I have been very careful to double-check. I've had two more instances since then. In each one I had selected the space instance (say "Infected" for example) and found myself in the ground instance. The last time I triple checked while awaiting game launch. I selected space but found myself in the ground instance.
Perhaps a Season 7 Bug? Or has this happened prior to season 7?
I never had that problem, nor have I yet encountered it.
There is no doubt in my mind that the system needs re-working - The STF should not even run with less than four players.
It should be an automatic Team Kick for all if the team is composed of only 3 players.
In the old system I could at least eject on AFK group members and play another STF.
Now you get penalized even if you load into a broken game and MUST eject.
The issue is that the leaver penalty is the problem and nothing is being done to at least fix it, let alone enhance it.
I guess not many players are complaining about it since it is not on the priority list.
The only solution and considered the BEST solution is to avoid PUG at all cost and try to make friends and make a legit team.
Its the simplest way to flee.. but its not very nice to the other players.
PUG
Definition:
Pick up Group ? a group assembled on the spot for a quest, a PvP battle, or an instance raid.
PUG teams are almost always the inferior team compared to legit Teams.
Or not to finish it at all. Certain missions like Manus are built for a specific number of players. If you don't have that, you are completely and totally screwed. Leaving means that you TRIBBLE four other people out of their rewards and force them to waste their time. If you enter an STF, do not leave. There is only one circumstance in which you should leave an STF (barring any real life drama), if others have left and you no longer have the numbers to complete the mission. In which case you have wasted your time and been denied your rewards. I hate it when that happens. Just don't do it.
Is not funny when in elite STF we lost the optional objetive and in the next minute all other players leave. The penalty should be 1 day without play any other stf and should be applied for all chars in account.
I like "pugs" as you never know what you will get... (including Klingons in a shuttlecraft:P, a tuffi, Miranda Class:eek:, a federation runabout....).
Each player has to take part - but a kick option is open to abuse.
The levers penalty needs to be fair to all players and the 1 hour ban is the best of a series of bad options.
Cryptic surely could add in ship restrictions like with the shuttle-only missions that prevent you from entering an event with a shuttle or those who enter an STF with less than a Tier 5 ship.
And while the Kick Option may be prone to abuse, I'm willing to risk it. Because I'm tired of going into Queued Events with Moochers who just stand there needing every drop. Rather take action myself in booting them than expecting a GM to do something (which they never do).
As for Kick Abuse, the only people that likely to do so are friends or a fleet that would kick at the last second to prevent a person from completing the mission or getting the reward. So maybe have the kick option be available for the first 5 minutes or when certain triggers before the end take place?
I agree... one day penalty for the whole account would be much more effective. Then people would think twice about leaving just because things are getting slightly thougher. Some people are leaving too fast,.. if they are noticing that not everyone does 100% perfect .. they leave.
Wow. Just...wow.
As if pick up groups are not legit, right?
*rolls eyes*
Discrimination should have been left in the last millennium.
rofl...
Okay, if newbie pick up group players are to blame, why is it that elite players are the ones to leave when optional fails?
I love how everyone blames everyone else for failures.
"It cannot be me! I am too perfect! All hail me!"
98% of the people who complain about leavers are the ones who rage spam the team chat.
Sequence of events in a failed stf:
"You are doing the stf wrong! Listen to me!"
*new player attempts to learn*
"You complete jerk. You are not doing it my way!"
*new player keeps trying to figure things out*
"We failed optional because of you!"
*first elite player leaves*
*new player leaves while upset and confused.*
"You punk! You just left in the middle of an stfs, and we ended up losing optional!"
*all remaining players bail on stf*
*stf ranter opens up a thread and rants about pick up groups and leaver penalties.*
If some of you guys paid attention, you will find that some people have reported stf issues. Since you guys were too busy ranting about leavers, you all missed a possible reason for their departure. Not everything is in black and white.
Get over it. You Queued in the wrong STF.....you didn't check the pop up window to be sure....then you screwed 4 other Captains.
The "Lever Penalty" is not new. It is just the first time you got busted for it.
Talk about ironic.
Dude the penalty is there to discourage player doing what you just explained. You joined an STF then left. You screwed up on selecting the correct mission then made it other players problem by leaving.
There is no way the game put you in the wrong STF, I would bet all my EC that bug does not exist.
I would like to add that I like the cool-down length. No changes required.
For starters, the idea is for it to be cumulative - like a three strikes your're out type notion.
gradually starts off with an hour ban account wide -
Strike 2 - a 2hr account wide ban
Strike 3 - a 24hr account wide ban
Harsh measures wouldn't be necessary if the system wasn't abused, but we all know the system is indeed abused and its hindering the gaming experience of legit players.
In your case, if you love abusing the STF system, then you have every right to fear the penalty - afterall; if you're not one of the abusers, than why fear the ban at all? Sure you can go play another game, however; I doubt they will run out of players for enforcing the ban on rule breakers.
Discrimination? Legit PUGS? You seem to be confused friend when it comes to PUG over Team recruitment, and for that matter the notion that PUG teams are better than your own team made groups.
Legit Team made Groups are almost always a superior group experience over PUG any day. I am not casting a negative light on PUG but referring to the randomness of a PUG.
I use the queue system from time to time and get an excellent PUG Team, but I can never say that the teams I form or ask to join are inferior to PUGs. Anyone can do an Elite Space STF with a PUG and it is hit or miss on optional success or success at all - try going in with a PUG on any EliteSTF Ground missions where the failure rate is astonishing:
Involving Rage quitters to just plain Griefers
So if you think a PUG group is on par with a well coordinated selected team, think again - I have to roll my eyes this time. :rolleyes:
For starters, and no offense, but newbies should stay the heck away from EliteSTFs. Nobody really cares about normal STFs, leave that game diffculty for the newbies with no leaver penalty.
So yeah, I support a NO leaver penalty for STFs on normal.
and for those suppose elite players? They're not Elite, but only call themselves Elitists or for that matter perfectionists. It is those type of players that if they ever implement the 24hr account wide ban that I would love to see get burn by it.
They called themselves Elitists, but they're actually immature as a person and as gamers.
I concur, entering in an end game space dungeon with anything less than a Tier 5 Starship is akin to griefing. It is a player made handicap and should be dealt with harshly.
Again I agree, the Kick Vote option should be implemeneted first. As a matter of fact they should implement the kick option first before even implementing a 24hr account wide ban.
Anything is open for abuse, however; You can pretty much get a feel for the group as a whole. The kicking abuse will mainly fall during PUG scenerios.
With PUG the players are random so it may be harder to kick someone, though if the 4 players are in agreement about the one not contributing, or SNAFU'ing the STF, then I don't see it being a huge problem.
I agree with this. I always react when I hear other blaming the PUGS or read other speaking ill about the PUGS in the STF they just did which was a failure of some kind.
It's the harsh wording that gets to me.
New players or any player really should not have to hear stuff like that. Its bullying, really!
If you are a new player or similar you can't help that you might not know how things rolles or makes mistakes. And you don't have to be a new player to make mistakes.
We are here to learn and have fun.. with experience you get better.
I admit there have been moments I have got frustrating when someone in a group (not that I am perfect and that I have never made a mistake in STF - cus I have many times) kept triggering more spheres when they used torpedo spread (and hence firing on targets that will spawn more). We asked the guy to stop using spread but he wouldn't listen. I can tell you that STF was a nightmare. They just kept coming. People left and then it came impossible.
The thing is you cannot control the targets in spread. And even with beams or any weapons I have noticed that sometimes my ship continues to fire on a target that I want it to stop and target something else. Sometimes those things are difficult to control.
-- devs - maybe you should look over this? I am sure it is not suppose to be continuing firing when you are not pushing the button. Or maybe I just don't know how. Who knows.
Backt to topic.
I think these STF are to difficult and to long.
I want more mixed missions.. space and ground.
I am a person that prefer ground over space.. but doing the ground is a nightmare.
Here is the thing, what I am referring to in my postings is about Team quality and the difference between the quality of a PUG over the quality of a very well organized Team.
Just to make things clear - I have nothing personal against PUG'ing - as a matter of fact I used the Queue system from time to time and was randomly grouped with an excellent PUG.
Thats a matter of abuse, verbal abuse, and the one who is engaging in such behavior should be reported and banned from the game itself. These are the folks that may call themselves Elitists or perfectionists, they are often immature and cannot handle their own frustrations. At the end of the day STO is merely a game.
I agree, however; in my own personal opinion Elite STfs cater more to the seasoned players. Please don't judge me for saying this, but I really feel that if you are a New Player, and especially New to an STF, you should try normal mode first.
I am not saying that a new player not play on Elite, but merely stating that a new player should learn on normal mode than try it on elite.
Yesterday I was with several fleet mates that were new to an STF, I and several other season players from my friend list guided them through an EliteSTF. we taught them what to do and what not to do. It was basically training day on Elite.
Hence why many here want a Kick vote option followed by a Ban.
hence training to overcome the obvious flaws. There is away from steering away from an auto attack - it requires timing and targeting something that will not risk losing the optional.
there is a learning curve to it.
Actually you're blessed - I remember the times when STFs use to take almost 4hrs, a combination of both space and ground for one piece of retro-borg set. The storyline was also complete in a way.
You came on board 2yrs too late - STFs use to be a combination of both Space and Ground - oh the good ole days
Ground combat is by far the weakest point of this game, it is plagued with many issues in which I will not comment on for the sake of staying on topic.
If 'some' of you people share his attitude, you folks need to get offline more often. While I understand the problem surrounding drifters, I will never-ever consider one group more important than another.
Do you know what an elite player should be?
(1) Respectful. Regardless about what happens within an STF, elite players should respect the rights of all players. No rage-spamming (chat & forum) and belittling of other players.
(2) Patient. Even though a new player may have entered into an advanced stf, elite players need use extreme patience with newbies. Allow them to make mistakes, ask questions, and try things.
(3) Adaptable. If you end up losing one player within the process, elite players should have enough skills to adapt to any circumstance. Step up. Suggest ideas without being a dictator. Try something new.
(4) Tolerant. Whenever I see the word 'pug' or pugs' being used, the word's context goes from innocent to discriminative. Elite players should not paint everyone with a broad brush.
(5) Honorable & Selfless. Even though the team may have missed the optional, elite players should not quit stfs out of a fit of rage. Help the other players reach the end, so they can get some type of reward. Since optional can be missed for any number of reasons, leaving stfs prematurely is like punishing innocent players. Don't be selfish.
(6) Flexible. While they may know one method for completing stfs, elite players should be aware that there could be other techniques. Its called 'knowing what you don't know'. Elite players are open minded to other methods for completing stfs.
Yes, I understand the issue we have with drifters; however, people could be leaving stfs for any number of reasons. Some of those reasons include: real life, software bugs, hardware issues, wrong stfs, learners anxiety, difficulty frustration, etc... If you want to talk about what is considered 'legit', I would ask someone who has built a family, earned a degree, obtained a promotion, and worked for a weekly paycheck. "Star Trek: Online" is a video game in which has no real life importance. While we run around in "Star Trek: Online's" virtual reality, we are using cartoons with fake names and handles.
People need to look in the mirror.
I agree.
In addition to my own personal encounter with it, I have also had about four other missions where players claimed in team chat that they had queued for a space mission. Now, I would understand if this was isolated incident, someone may have inadvertently misread the queue message. This is too widespread to be user error. There is certainly a bug floating around with the public queue system.
My only wish is that players would stick it out and finish the mission. 2 out of the 6 missions where someone noted they queued for the wrong map had leavers once the mission got hard. KA ground normal with only 2 players on my Level 46 engineer was interesting due to the shield room, but in the end it only took 10 minutes longer than needed. Now the Infected Ground Normal with that same character (3 players for the boss fight)...let's just say my fleet tribble spat out four fleet marks before the mission was over and I got a lot of practice using the engineering class. Ground can be a lot of fun, all it takes is an understanding of the mission strategies and practice, just like any space mission.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)