I just had again a STF where we've NOT been able to reach the bonus goal, just because 2 CENSORED decide to do nothing but hit the "Need" button on every drop. They know they get their TRIBBLE at the end of the STF anyway.
I dunno - I wrote about 23981693871298371209837129083712098 ticket about this topic, never got a replay, and even see the same guys over and over again - so obviously, they don't get a time ban or anything else.
so question: WHEN ARE WILL WE BE ABLE TO KICK SUCH LEECHERS ?
I know - we still would fail the bonus goal - but at least these ppl wouldn't get anything out of their action.
I am done with this - i can't stand it any longer - DO SOMETHING! NOW!
sorry - but right now I am really pissed
This is why the public que system needs to Die in a fire. Because there are public ques players will do at the most the bare minimum to get a success. It's why i almost never take on any of the STF's other than infected.
When you weigh the pro's and cons, i see far more cons with this system than forcing players to skill and gear up to join privately run STF's than situations like these. I am tired of failing the ISE optional because someone decides it's not worth holding their fire for ten friggin seconds on a target. There needs to be changes. No you cant fix stupid but you sure as hell can make it hard for stupid to stick around. Vote Kick will get abused to hell and gone but something has to be done about these guys. They get GM/Moderator cover by being unable to be named and shamed. (Which on THIS topic i consider BS. People should be able to ignore these *******s without having to experience their ineptness first hand) And the Devs wont fix the situation by giving players the tools to deal with them. This situation will continue regardless but maybe someone will EVENTUALLY get the message. THIS IS NOT OK!
there really does need to be some kind of penalty system in place for the people that abuse the public queues. Not saying vote kick is a good idea, but there's got to be some kind of way to discourage this behavior. We obviously can't be trusted to police ourselves and craptic doesn't want to do it. Something has got to give one way or another or the amount of people that are afk farming stf's will increase to a point where you'll be lucky to get enough participating people to even finish the stf, much less make the optional.
I think we explained this issue all ready Open to abuse indeed.This kinda setup would be massively abused just like the ignore option.
I mean just look at the ignore option and then look in your ignore list and tell me that this would not be abused.If you do not like these people your playing with then find a team you can trust.
The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
I've seen an unusually great number of AFK leeches and light cruiser lowbies (not in STFs, obviously, but fleet actions) lately.
Part of what makes PUGs interesting is that groups are always different: the same mission can be laughably easy or downright challenging depending on the team. I also enjoy seeing how different people handle encounters and not having to wait long getting started. What I don't like is some lazy TRIBBLE sitting there AFK while others get them rewards they don't deserve. This kind of behavior is becoming a problem.
My solution so far is a zero tolerance policy towards leeching. If I detect an AFK leech, I will beam out or go to warp, as I refuse to play for the benefit of those parasites.
Would a team vote kick work? Although it could be abused for some things, getting four random people who want to wrongfully punish someone and gang up on a team member seems like an unlikely event.
Well a vote4kick works in hundreds of other games pretty well.
Of corse you can add something to try to proof if someone is leeching. Yesterday I've been in Kithomer Space with 3 (!) leechers and one of them even was making jokes about my guild mate and me. we decided then to let the mission go to fail and let 10 probes pass the time gate, but honestly - it can't be that the developers do nothing against such behaviour
If you have someone leeching you on an STF and you decide to stay, you don't really have an argument, now do you?
If you post in local their names and tell them you refuse to do for another player what they won't do for them themselves and then leave, good for you.
The actual problem here is that they are allowed to come in and the rest of you work to get them their loot. Appearently that you works for you since you stayed. You have to fight harder to maintain the same pace since you are short a person(s).
What you need are Alts so you can switch until the penalty runs out and let them stay and try it on their own.
As others already said, in the end every newbie or someone they think of being unskilled would get kicked and never finish one single round. This kind of system would get abused.
They should implement minimum requirements for joining a Elite Map, like a minimum of five accomplished rounds on normal. Thus there would be less noobs on Elite Maps ruining the mission for the whole team.
Concerning Inactives: Autokick after several minutes without a minimum activity or no rewards without a minimum of activity
Concerning the "Twinkers" then: Log the accomplishment of normal maps aligned with their account instead of the toons, so they can delete their toons and start new ones as often they want to.
So what if it's "open to abuse"? That's no different from any other online game with a "vote to kick" option. That's such a weak argument, I have to wonder if they people trying to sell it are the leechers themselves. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, the alternative of only using private queues is more insulting, exclusionary BS. You would have those of us who don't know four other trustworthy people who play STO just avoid STFs altogether. Mindless, unhelpful cop-out.
So what if it's "open to abuse"? That's no different from any other online game with a "vote to kick" option. That's such a weak argument, I have to wonder if they people trying to sell it are the leechers themselves. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, the alternative of only using private queues is more insulting, exclusionary BS. You would have those of us who don't know four other trustworthy people who play STO just avoid STFs altogether. Mindless, unhelpful cop-out.
Fleet Defiant with a Beam Overload setup and stacked bridge officers. No. I'm no leecher. I'm usually the DPS saving your TRIBBLE and making sure that optional is even possible.
Vote to Kick quickly becomes a popularity contest in which you can be doing everything RIGHT and still get removed because you called one ******* on your team for being an *******. I dont like it in most other games either because it encourages a mob mentality and removal for inane and unjustified reasons OTHER THAN performance. And no you'd actually *gasp* have to join fleets, be sociable, not be an ******* TWENTY FOUR SEVEN THREE ****ING SIXTY ******NED FIVE!
What a thought! Actually having CONSEQUENCES FOR THINGS THAT WOULD GET YOU PUNCHED OUT IN REAL LIFE!
So what if it's "open to abuse"? That's no different from any other online game with a "vote to kick" option. That's such a weak argument, I have to wonder if they people trying to sell it are the leechers themselves. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, the alternative of only using private queues is more insulting, exclusionary BS. You would have those of us who don't know four other trustworthy people who play STO just avoid STFs altogether. Mindless, unhelpful cop-out.
obviously you have not seen the Elite STF chat channel and i usually need everything in sight for funding for a temporal ship but at the same time i use a Defiant R and will always do my best to help get the optional. back to the Elite STF channel it is a chat channel where you can go with good people and reliably do even the hardest of STF's and actually have a good time doing it laughing at the borg as they go boom
Time wasted arguing in chat is time better spent somehow contributing to the mission. I care not a single iota for how a "vote to kick" option will affect the mighty internet word warrior.
And even if you're in a fleet and that fleet has at least 5 members, there's no guarantee they're on at the same time. Queuing with strangers carries the same risk of getting a leecher d-bag, and inviting them to your fleet the risk of them looting your bank and leaving unless you want to spend time locking down all of the permissions. So the dismissive TRIBBLE about being more social is no solution, either.
I ran across one afk player in a Starbase 24 mission last night. It was the first time, that I know, that someone was so obviously leeching off of everyone else. I guess I'm so busy trying to kill what's around me that I rarely pay that much attention to it. But this guy got killed and didn't rez at all during the scenario (until the very end). And yes, he needed on everything.
I thought it was interesting because I've found the actual fighting to be the most fun I've ever had in the game. I can't imagine for an instant sitting out a battle, because then it wouldn't be worth actually playing to just get stuff.
Fleet Admiral Duane Gundrum, U.S.S. Merrimack
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
What they need to do is make a requirement that in order to roll on loot, you have to have done damage to the ship that dropped that loot.
In order to roll on the end-mission loot, you need to have done damage to the boss.
At the least the leechers will have to move around and shoot at stuff. It doesn't mean they will actually care about healing, using abilities, or doing much of any DPS at all, but it's better than nothing.
I am against that just report when you see someone doing something not supposed to
people will kick everyone if they have opotion do do that
what i think would be a fix is
report them so many times you get baned then if baned 3 time permanent baned from stf's
So what if it's "open to abuse"? That's no different from any other online game with a "vote to kick" option. That's such a weak argument, I have to wonder if they people trying to sell it are the leechers themselves. :rolleyes:
Not appreciatin this comment at all. Let me turn this back on ya, ARE YOU a griefer tryin to get the ability to grief? :rolleyes:
I've run plenty of STFs and participate in them all thanks very much. Seen all the behavior the OP writes about and WORSE.
But still believe that the vote kick is a VERY bad idea.
MMOs are FULL of examples of where a little bit of power in some players hands equals a very bad time for others.
One need look no further than this very game. Where there are griefing guilds that would LOVE a little bit of power like this.
Imagine the U tube videos of the ensuing vote kick debauchery !
What they need to do is make a requirement that in order to roll on loot, you have to have done damage to the ship that dropped that loot.
In order to roll on the end-mission loot, you need to have done damage to the boss.
At the least the leechers will have to move around and shoot at stuff. It doesn't mean they will actually care about healing, using abilities, or doing much of any DPS at all, but it's better than nothing.
what reputation is for need to make drops mor personal not team need or greed because it gets old when you get an item someone scarfs it because need or greed favors who grabs it
Kicking an idle player out of a mission would not improve your ability to complete it or the reward you get at the end in any way. And 99% of drops are useless vendor trash.
I'd rather the devs use their time doing something useful instead of creating systems to appease the petty jealousy of people who are more concerned with someone else getting something for free than their own game.
And of course, a kick vote would be abused to hell and back.
Kicking players is too easy to abuse. It doesn't work in WoW and it won't work here. Nobody needs to be kicked because they aren't using the weapons you like or their ship name is weird which is what it will boil down to eventually.
Alright, here's a third option for compromise: Make it a filter selection in the PvE menu. You'd have private matches, open queue, and open queue with an in-game "vote to kick" option.
That should make everyone happy. No sniveling about "abuse" when you have the option of an open game with no kick vote.
Alright, here's a third option for compromise: Make it a filter selection in the PvE menu. You'd have private matches, open queue, and open queue with an in-game "vote to kick" option.
That should make everyone happy. No sniveling about "abuse" when you have the option of an open game with no kick vote.
No that would only make things even more frustrating. You would end up being more likely to group with leechers in the normal open queue, and be more likely to end up with elitist jerks in the vote to kick queue.
I think damage-based loot rolls are the best option. For common drops from normal enemies, the loot should only be rolled on by anyone who damaged that enemy.
For the big loot at the end of the fleet action, it should only be rolled on by everyone who damaged the boss.
This way, you don't have to worry about vote-kicking being abused, and leechers can't sit around rolling need on things that they didn't help kill.
Currently there is no mechanism in place to deter people from accepting a PvE mission and then going AFK to sponge the rewards.
Why should anyone be actively engaged for 10-20 minutes when they can instead tab out, surf the web, and rely on their teammates to carry them through to victory?
Going AFK is also becoming more popular. I encounter an AFK person every 4-5 missions, both space and ground. The 20-man missions appear to be favorites, presumably because they think that their inactivity will go unnoticed.
I am asking the developers to please implement some form of the following:
1) an auto-kick from the mission if they are AFK for X amount of time.
2) a vote-kick mechanism that allows the team to boot inactive members.
You need both, because you need to be able to account for people that go AFK from the start, and people that decide to go AFK after the mission has started.
If a kick feature is not added, then I must ask, how bad are you willing to let this get before you give it attention? And, how do you want people to handle this situation in the meantime? Here are the choices:
1) let the AFK person sponge rewards
2) discourage AFK by dropping the mission (and incurring time penalty for next mission)
3) warn others not to group with him/her
4) report the AFK player to a GM
Although I'll agree I hate AFKers I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Anything less then 5 minutes is probably too harsh. People have things going on, family, pets, or phonecalls. This used to happen much more often then it does currently.
The only time I see AFK issues is with the mine trap event. Usually it seems though they just never load the map. Their health bar is there but nothing in the shield area. I find it hard to believe someone can simply not load the map until the event is just about over.
Mine trap can take a huge time to patch in on the first try.
My opinion is this, if your family, dog, phone, or anything takes priority over STO thats fine, just don't expect to get rewarded for having those priorities. You should get kicked and you should get a lever penalty.
If I'm in the middle of something at home, I don't join games, I'll do something I can drop at any time. If I'm making dinner and I know it will be ready before the mission ends I'll let people know I will be afk for 1 min (private games only) or so to pull it off the stove.
It is simply not acceptable to put your burden on others, why it has become so in the world is really disgusting.
How is them not doing anything more of a burden then them not being there? Do they draw unwanted aggro? Take reward share away from you?
Honestly curious.
It's an issue because it affects your DPS, mostly. The missions are made for a specific amount of people. For example, the STFs are 5-man missions. If one player is AFK, you are now running the mission as a 4-man, with 80% of the DPS, heals, etc. you would have if all 5 players were participating. This can often lead the entire mission failing, especially if you are more than one AFK-er in the group. It's definitely a serious issue.
mine trap is mainly patching its very easy to take awhile to patch it first visit you'll see like health of the person no shield also my first try on the stf space hive awhile ago huge patch and loaded the mission map still patching files while borg right in front of me but i've met a few afkers and some extreamly bad players in stfs with 800 day vet signs not sure which is worse not complaining about the 800 day vets you guys keep the game running my best afker he was a fersan and stayed at the start of the map waited for us to do the shield irm controllers then ran up jumped down outside the boss room then stayed completly still again waited for us to finish then ran up collected rewards bag and left straight after collecting thats not an afker its something i understand people have server issues and stand still sometimes ect been there my self but perfect timing like that no. if your a bad player of stfs thats ok be terrible but least be there besides us the fire power heals support being nice and reviving any dead is very useful aswell. i dont mind people who use chat and say afk 1 min or 3 i mean i done that my self when ya gotta go ya gotta go better run to the toilet :rolleyes:
To all of those whining about the OP's proposed kick system, just realize any sys tem can and will be abused. Agreed its not perfect, but just having dealt with at least a few leechers/griefers for the past few days I feel its is a necessary evil that needs to be implemented. They don't deserve the loot, marks, and/or dilithium that these pub cues churn-out.
In during "HURR-DURR GO PRIVATE QUE"; some of you just make me sick by leaving those cop-outs :mad:
Just made a reply to a related thread earlier. The majority of those posters are pretty much whining on how such a votekick feature would be abused. Like it or not I'm in agreement with you, OP, as I am tired of leechers and griefers just sitting back and harassing other players needlessly.
Comments
This is why the public que system needs to Die in a fire. Because there are public ques players will do at the most the bare minimum to get a success. It's why i almost never take on any of the STF's other than infected.
When you weigh the pro's and cons, i see far more cons with this system than forcing players to skill and gear up to join privately run STF's than situations like these. I am tired of failing the ISE optional because someone decides it's not worth holding their fire for ten friggin seconds on a target. There needs to be changes. No you cant fix stupid but you sure as hell can make it hard for stupid to stick around. Vote Kick will get abused to hell and gone but something has to be done about these guys. They get GM/Moderator cover by being unable to be named and shamed. (Which on THIS topic i consider BS. People should be able to ignore these *******s without having to experience their ineptness first hand) And the Devs wont fix the situation by giving players the tools to deal with them. This situation will continue regardless but maybe someone will EVENTUALLY get the message. THIS IS NOT OK!
The chat bug (switching to team chat does not work correct for months).
The navigate bug after respawn (sometimes navigation stucks for minutes without any ship injuries).
The warp in a lost STF problem (after warping in find your self in a lost battle nearly the end of running time).
I mean just look at the ignore option and then look in your ignore list and tell me that this would not be abused.If you do not like these people your playing with then find a team you can trust.
Part of what makes PUGs interesting is that groups are always different: the same mission can be laughably easy or downright challenging depending on the team. I also enjoy seeing how different people handle encounters and not having to wait long getting started. What I don't like is some lazy TRIBBLE sitting there AFK while others get them rewards they don't deserve. This kind of behavior is becoming a problem.
My solution so far is a zero tolerance policy towards leeching. If I detect an AFK leech, I will beam out or go to warp, as I refuse to play for the benefit of those parasites.
Would a team vote kick work? Although it could be abused for some things, getting four random people who want to wrongfully punish someone and gang up on a team member seems like an unlikely event.
Of corse you can add something to try to proof if someone is leeching. Yesterday I've been in Kithomer Space with 3 (!) leechers and one of them even was making jokes about my guild mate and me. we decided then to let the mission go to fail and let 10 probes pass the time gate, but honestly - it can't be that the developers do nothing against such behaviour
:mad:
The only way to avoid leechers is to avoid PUG queues, period. Leechers are inherent to this system in each and every game that has them.
there are channels for elite and normal stfs, join them: no leechers and harassment there.
If you post in local their names and tell them you refuse to do for another player what they won't do for them themselves and then leave, good for you.
The actual problem here is that they are allowed to come in and the rest of you work to get them their loot. Appearently that you works for you since you stayed. You have to fight harder to maintain the same pace since you are short a person(s).
What you need are Alts so you can switch until the penalty runs out and let them stay and try it on their own.
You may not like it, but I'm just saying...
As others already said, in the end every newbie or someone they think of being unskilled would get kicked and never finish one single round. This kind of system would get abused.
They should implement minimum requirements for joining a Elite Map, like a minimum of five accomplished rounds on normal. Thus there would be less noobs on Elite Maps ruining the mission for the whole team.
Concerning Inactives: Autokick after several minutes without a minimum activity or no rewards without a minimum of activity
Concerning the "Twinkers" then: Log the accomplishment of normal maps aligned with their account instead of the toons, so they can delete their toons and start new ones as often they want to.
Meanwhile, the alternative of only using private queues is more insulting, exclusionary BS. You would have those of us who don't know four other trustworthy people who play STO just avoid STFs altogether. Mindless, unhelpful cop-out.
Fleet Defiant with a Beam Overload setup and stacked bridge officers. No. I'm no leecher. I'm usually the DPS saving your TRIBBLE and making sure that optional is even possible.
Vote to Kick quickly becomes a popularity contest in which you can be doing everything RIGHT and still get removed because you called one ******* on your team for being an *******. I dont like it in most other games either because it encourages a mob mentality and removal for inane and unjustified reasons OTHER THAN performance. And no you'd actually *gasp* have to join fleets, be sociable, not be an ******* TWENTY FOUR SEVEN THREE ****ING SIXTY ******NED FIVE!
What a thought! Actually having CONSEQUENCES FOR THINGS THAT WOULD GET YOU PUNCHED OUT IN REAL LIFE!
obviously you have not seen the Elite STF chat channel and i usually need everything in sight for funding for a temporal ship but at the same time i use a Defiant R and will always do my best to help get the optional. back to the Elite STF channel it is a chat channel where you can go with good people and reliably do even the hardest of STF's and actually have a good time doing it laughing at the borg as they go boom
And even if you're in a fleet and that fleet has at least 5 members, there's no guarantee they're on at the same time. Queuing with strangers carries the same risk of getting a leecher d-bag, and inviting them to your fleet the risk of them looting your bank and leaving unless you want to spend time locking down all of the permissions. So the dismissive TRIBBLE about being more social is no solution, either.
I thought it was interesting because I've found the actual fighting to be the most fun I've ever had in the game. I can't imagine for an instant sitting out a battle, because then it wouldn't be worth actually playing to just get stuff.
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
In order to roll on the end-mission loot, you need to have done damage to the boss.
At the least the leechers will have to move around and shoot at stuff. It doesn't mean they will actually care about healing, using abilities, or doing much of any DPS at all, but it's better than nothing.
people will kick everyone if they have opotion do do that
what i think would be a fix is
report them so many times you get baned then if baned 3 time permanent baned from stf's
Not appreciatin this comment at all. Let me turn this back on ya, ARE YOU a griefer tryin to get the ability to grief? :rolleyes:
I've run plenty of STFs and participate in them all thanks very much. Seen all the behavior the OP writes about and WORSE.
But still believe that the vote kick is a VERY bad idea.
MMOs are FULL of examples of where a little bit of power in some players hands equals a very bad time for others.
One need look no further than this very game. Where there are griefing guilds that would LOVE a little bit of power like this.
Imagine the U tube videos of the ensuing vote kick debauchery !
what reputation is for need to make drops mor personal not team need or greed because it gets old when you get an item someone scarfs it because need or greed favors who grabs it
I'd rather the devs use their time doing something useful instead of creating systems to appease the petty jealousy of people who are more concerned with someone else getting something for free than their own game.
And of course, a kick vote would be abused to hell and back.
That should make everyone happy. No sniveling about "abuse" when you have the option of an open game with no kick vote.
No that would only make things even more frustrating. You would end up being more likely to group with leechers in the normal open queue, and be more likely to end up with elitist jerks in the vote to kick queue.
I think damage-based loot rolls are the best option. For common drops from normal enemies, the loot should only be rolled on by anyone who damaged that enemy.
For the big loot at the end of the fleet action, it should only be rolled on by everyone who damaged the boss.
This way, you don't have to worry about vote-kicking being abused, and leechers can't sit around rolling need on things that they didn't help kill.
Why should anyone be actively engaged for 10-20 minutes when they can instead tab out, surf the web, and rely on their teammates to carry them through to victory?
Going AFK is also becoming more popular. I encounter an AFK person every 4-5 missions, both space and ground. The 20-man missions appear to be favorites, presumably because they think that their inactivity will go unnoticed.
I am asking the developers to please implement some form of the following:
1) an auto-kick from the mission if they are AFK for X amount of time.
2) a vote-kick mechanism that allows the team to boot inactive members.
You need both, because you need to be able to account for people that go AFK from the start, and people that decide to go AFK after the mission has started.
If a kick feature is not added, then I must ask, how bad are you willing to let this get before you give it attention? And, how do you want people to handle this situation in the meantime? Here are the choices:
1) let the AFK person sponge rewards
2) discourage AFK by dropping the mission (and incurring time penalty for next mission)
3) warn others not to group with him/her
4) report the AFK player to a GM
Thank you for your time and consideration.
The only time I see AFK issues is with the mine trap event. Usually it seems though they just never load the map. Their health bar is there but nothing in the shield area. I find it hard to believe someone can simply not load the map until the event is just about over.
My opinion is this, if your family, dog, phone, or anything takes priority over STO thats fine, just don't expect to get rewarded for having those priorities. You should get kicked and you should get a lever penalty.
If I'm in the middle of something at home, I don't join games, I'll do something I can drop at any time. If I'm making dinner and I know it will be ready before the mission ends I'll let people know I will be afk for 1 min (private games only) or so to pull it off the stove.
It is simply not acceptable to put your burden on others, why it has become so in the world is really disgusting.
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Nothing to do anymore.
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Honestly curious.
It's an issue because it affects your DPS, mostly. The missions are made for a specific amount of people. For example, the STFs are 5-man missions. If one player is AFK, you are now running the mission as a 4-man, with 80% of the DPS, heals, etc. you would have if all 5 players were participating. This can often lead the entire mission failing, especially if you are more than one AFK-er in the group. It's definitely a serious issue.
In during "HURR-DURR GO PRIVATE QUE"; some of you just make me sick by leaving those cop-outs :mad: